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Post-match Thread: Charlton Athletic v Bolton Wanderers | Tuesday 28th September 2021
Comments
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I keep forgetting it’s League 1.se9addick said:
I wish we’d been in Division 1 in 8 of the last 13 seasons!MStuartPerm said:
The most depressing stat is we have been in Division 1 in 8 of the last 13 seasons. Will be 9 in 14 this time next year, if we can avoid relegation.charlton_hero said:I still call it the third division.3 -
Oh my! I’ve just seen the Goals. Shocking.0
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Turd division more like.MStuartPerm said:
I keep forgetting it’s League 1.se9addick said:
I wish we’d been in Division 1 in 8 of the last 13 seasons!MStuartPerm said:
The most depressing stat is we have been in Division 1 in 8 of the last 13 seasons. Will be 9 in 14 this time next year, if we can avoid relegation.charlton_hero said:I still call it the third division.2 -
I initially too thought it was poor goalkeeping and even made the comment in the match thread, but as above a goalkeepers insight made me change my opinion.MuttleyCAFC said:
On seeing a replay, I think it is a good point.LenGlover said:
Deano explained that on Charlton TV. He said the keeper was watching the Bolton player between the goalscorer and the goal in case he deflected it. Hence the late movement.Simonsen said:Big chance missed by Washington at 1-2 (the lob just past the near post). I like him and his off the ball movement but he needs a lot of chances.
Didn't look like our goalie made much of an effort for Bolton's first goal. Think he's got to save that one (he looked similarly suspect at Wycombe). But maybe I'm expecting too much from a Div 3 keeper.0 -
Is that right?LenGlover said:
Deano explained that on Charlton TV. He said the keeper was watching the Bolton player between the goalscorer and the goal in case he deflected it. Hence the late movement.Simonsen said:Big chance missed by Washington at 1-2 (the lob just past the near post). I like him and his off the ball movement but he needs a lot of chances.
Didn't look like our goalie made much of an effort for Bolton's first goal. Think he's got to save that one (he looked similarly suspect at Wycombe). But maybe I'm expecting too much from a Div 3 keeper.
Keeping an eye on a player in case the ball gets deflected rather than keeping an eye on the ball in case it goes into the goal?
Hmm.
The blame, of course, lies with Matthews (and others maybe) for allowing the shot. But I thought that MacGillivray could have done better.1 -
One for Deano the goalkeeping coach I'd say but it does explain what happened.Dave Rudd said:
Is that right?LenGlover said:
Deano explained that on Charlton TV. He said the keeper was watching the Bolton player between the goalscorer and the goal in case he deflected it. Hence the late movement.Simonsen said:Big chance missed by Washington at 1-2 (the lob just past the near post). I like him and his off the ball movement but he needs a lot of chances.
Didn't look like our goalie made much of an effort for Bolton's first goal. Think he's got to save that one (he looked similarly suspect at Wycombe). But maybe I'm expecting too much from a Div 3 keeper.
Keeping an eye on a player in case the ball gets deflected rather than keeping an eye on the ball in case it goes into the goal?
Hmm.
The blame, of course, lies with Matthews (and others maybe) for allowing the shot. But I thought that MacGillivray could have done better.0 -
Of course a keeper has to keep an eye on those that the ball comes near. Why is that a surprise?Dave Rudd said:
Is that right?LenGlover said:
Deano explained that on Charlton TV. He said the keeper was watching the Bolton player between the goalscorer and the goal in case he deflected it. Hence the late movement.Simonsen said:Big chance missed by Washington at 1-2 (the lob just past the near post). I like him and his off the ball movement but he needs a lot of chances.
Didn't look like our goalie made much of an effort for Bolton's first goal. Think he's got to save that one (he looked similarly suspect at Wycombe). But maybe I'm expecting too much from a Div 3 keeper.
Keeping an eye on a player in case the ball gets deflected rather than keeping an eye on the ball in case it goes into the goal?
Hmm.
The blame, of course, lies with Matthews (and others maybe) for allowing the shot. But I thought that MacGillivray could have done better.
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It's the type of goal we have been letting in for over a year now. 3, 4 or even more players make mistakes, even minor ones, and it all adds up because no one does the right thing. Matthews let's him cut inside then, I think it was Clare doesn't react fast enough. He didn't even anticipate it. Even if MacGillivray makes the save both center halves are the wrong side of their man so it would be an easy tap in.Dave Rudd said:
Is that right?LenGlover said:
Deano explained that on Charlton TV. He said the keeper was watching the Bolton player between the goalscorer and the goal in case he deflected it. Hence the late movement.Simonsen said:Big chance missed by Washington at 1-2 (the lob just past the near post). I like him and his off the ball movement but he needs a lot of chances.
Didn't look like our goalie made much of an effort for Bolton's first goal. Think he's got to save that one (he looked similarly suspect at Wycombe). But maybe I'm expecting too much from a Div 3 keeper.
Keeping an eye on a player in case the ball gets deflected rather than keeping an eye on the ball in case it goes into the goal?
Hmm.
The blame, of course, lies with Matthews (and others maybe) for allowing the shot. But I thought that MacGillivray could have done better.2 -
I suppose chopping and changing the defence/team every game doesn't help. I'm not saying Adkins isn't intelligent, nor Roddy but we smack of a club trying to be too clever.
Adkins had a great opportunity to assess the side having a run at it at the end of last season. Objective number one should have been to get it to the level we ended the season as soon as possible. We weakened it, then seemed to be desperate at the end of the window after the season had started. I think we over complicated things and maybe we might have needed to spend a bit more on say keeping Aneke or getting goal scoring midfielders in. Given the loss of JFC and Gilbey, we had one in Shinnie that should have been kept on due to circumstances.
Roddy has clearly sold an idea to Sandgaard which has a small flaw in that it is bollocks. You get a decent manager in, and Adkins could have been that, and he tells Gallen who to get. Roddy shouldn't be anywhere near that. When Adkins said he hadn't had a chance to speak to Kirk yet after we signed him, it points to what is wrong. Again, people trying to be too clever!8 -
At the end of last season the main thing coming out of the club is that they wanted to sign younger players that could play at a higher intensity. Very strange that the old guard are still in place or on the fringe nearer starting than to younger players.
Fitness seem another big issue which again considering the desire to play a high tempo pressing game is a bit weird2 - Sponsored links:
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ValleyGary said:Even if you get fit in pre-season, you still need 'match fitness' which comes early in the competitive season. Chopping and changing players every game wont achieve that. So after 10 games we are now behind on other teams even more.
Gary Neville said on a podcast I heard that Ferguson got someone in to talk about eye exercises and the theory being that a lot of match sharpness is not solely down to your engine or legs but also the speed you read the game.
I noticed it when I recently got back into 5 aside regularly....fitness didn't change much as did loads of running already but over the weeks got more comfortable on the ball and reading the game/ reacting far quicker....and that's among a bunch of past it 40+ year olds (albeit one did get a cap for Portugal once).
So you can only imagine how a month or more lay off for the pros and the speed and intensity they play at how it would take a while for your eyes and brain to get match fit.7 -
There were twitter clues of a bit of disquiet about how the club was playing hardball with out of contract players who wanted to stay. A false economy on a number of fronts. There was an impetus from last season that we may have thrown away. Think of the vibe at the club in our record League One winning season. Think of the continuation from Bowyers end of his first season and first full season. I say we may have thrown it away, I don't have the full facts but like I said there were some cryptic twitter clues. It was why I held off getting my season ticket.1
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Talal said:
Of course a keeper has to keep an eye on those that the ball comes near. Why is that a surprise?Dave Rudd said:
Is that right?LenGlover said:
Deano explained that on Charlton TV. He said the keeper was watching the Bolton player between the goalscorer and the goal in case he deflected it. Hence the late movement.Simonsen said:Big chance missed by Washington at 1-2 (the lob just past the near post). I like him and his off the ball movement but he needs a lot of chances.
Didn't look like our goalie made much of an effort for Bolton's first goal. Think he's got to save that one (he looked similarly suspect at Wycombe). But maybe I'm expecting too much from a Div 3 keeper.
Keeping an eye on a player in case the ball gets deflected rather than keeping an eye on the ball in case it goes into the goal?
Hmm.
The blame, of course, lies with Matthews (and others maybe) for allowing the shot. But I thought that MacGillivray could have done better.
Because, by doing so, it would appear that he has let the ball go into the goal.
Now ... call me old-fashioned ... but I much prefer a goalkeeper who keeps an eye on the ball and stops it going into the goal.
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Guess Deano is wrong then, poor keeper he was.Dave Rudd said:Talal said:
Of course a keeper has to keep an eye on those that the ball comes near. Why is that a surprise?Dave Rudd said:
Is that right?LenGlover said:
Deano explained that on Charlton TV. He said the keeper was watching the Bolton player between the goalscorer and the goal in case he deflected it. Hence the late movement.Simonsen said:Big chance missed by Washington at 1-2 (the lob just past the near post). I like him and his off the ball movement but he needs a lot of chances.
Didn't look like our goalie made much of an effort for Bolton's first goal. Think he's got to save that one (he looked similarly suspect at Wycombe). But maybe I'm expecting too much from a Div 3 keeper.
Keeping an eye on a player in case the ball gets deflected rather than keeping an eye on the ball in case it goes into the goal?
Hmm.
The blame, of course, lies with Matthews (and others maybe) for allowing the shot. But I thought that MacGillivray could have done better.
Because, by doing so, it would appear that he has let the ball go into the goal.
Now ... call me old-fashioned ... but I much prefer a goalkeeper who keeps an eye on the ball and stops it going into the goal.0 -
Talal said:
Guess Deano is wrong then, poor keeper he was.Dave Rudd said:Talal said:
Of course a keeper has to keep an eye on those that the ball comes near. Why is that a surprise?Dave Rudd said:
Is that right?LenGlover said:
Deano explained that on Charlton TV. He said the keeper was watching the Bolton player between the goalscorer and the goal in case he deflected it. Hence the late movement.Simonsen said:Big chance missed by Washington at 1-2 (the lob just past the near post). I like him and his off the ball movement but he needs a lot of chances.
Didn't look like our goalie made much of an effort for Bolton's first goal. Think he's got to save that one (he looked similarly suspect at Wycombe). But maybe I'm expecting too much from a Div 3 keeper.
Keeping an eye on a player in case the ball gets deflected rather than keeping an eye on the ball in case it goes into the goal?
Hmm.
The blame, of course, lies with Matthews (and others maybe) for allowing the shot. But I thought that MacGillivray could have done better.
Because, by doing so, it would appear that he has let the ball go into the goal.
Now ... call me old-fashioned ... but I much prefer a goalkeeper who keeps an eye on the ball and stops it going into the goal.
If Deano had been in goal, then the shot would have hit the intervening player ... and Deano would have saved the deflected shot.
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The two guys who clean our windows support Bolton and Oxford United respectively. They couldn’t come as scheduled today. Every cloud has a silver lining!0
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Clive Woodward went big for the weight training for eyes and it works, all about using the peripheral vision we neglect or don't make the most of because we don't need to
Last night was another shitshow of players making stupid mistakes still have no idea how we are meant to be playing, still seem leaderless and have more than a few experienced players coasting at the clubs expense.
If it was as simple as clearing out the bad eggs, the coasters the ones treating defensive shape or tracking runners as an optional extra I'd have them out tomorrow3 -
Get pissed and feel like shit for a week or go Charlton , I feel like shit, horrendous nights kip the evening after , dehydration etc
was double figure pints in by the time Charlton slumped to the new depths in some pub on Finchley Road with glory Liverpool fans (who do come Charlton for the football experience ) I’m such a shit drinker I don’t even 100% know who was there fffs
My new upside down curfew is that I’m not allowed home before 10pm (mrs will go to bed around then ) because I’m so annoying, so was chaperoned home in a sherbert think I got home 11ish and was late enough to miss the family .
Unfortunately Nigel has to go , the players may be pony but they should be more than good enough to be out of the bottom 4 , they’re clearly not playing for him .
0% Top 2
0% Play offs
28% 7th-12th
65% 13th-20th
7% The big R
driven to drink by our ineptitude , someone end this misery now please
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I said on the matchday thread at half time, watch us go to pieces in the second half, but I was hoping to be wrong. It seems that we cannot play well for more than 45 minutes at the most
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The more I think about this the more it annoys me to be honest. I hate footballers. Adkins has had an absolute pig this season, he's changing formations and personnel constantly, morale seems to be low and fitness is diabolical across the squad, not just with the players who joined late, so I'm not defending his performance, but it's ridiculous that footballers get to decide the direction of the club based on their perception of 'credibility'. Adkins turned up credible, he's managed a team to promotion to the Premier League and improved a number of teams he's been at. How many of our lot have any Premier League credibility? Watson certainly can say he did, and he's one of the only ones who turns up and tries, he's just limited by age. The rest of them though, players we signed on the way down from not cutting it at Premier League academies plying their trade at L1 and L2 level, or dropping down from failure at Championship clubs, they're hardly superstars in the making. They might not like Adkins making silly little videos encouraging positive mental health in people, sure, but if you think the manager isn't credible so you ignore him to play your own way and the plan you cook up in your head is to spend every game lumping it to the big galoot up front's face then you don't need to look any further than the end of your nose to find a lack of credibility. How much better off we would all be if instead of rolling their eyes at the manager some of these actually had a look at themselves. Everyone involved is culpable for our worst ever start to the season, but it's Adkins who will be out on his ear while the rest of these continue to pick up Charlton money and then hopefully decide, if the next manager suits them, that they'll actually do as they're asked and play some football. In a fair few cases this is a lot of players who decided they couldn't be arsed under Bowyer anymore because he was too mean to them, perked up when the manager changed and lost one in 10, stuffed a team 6-0 away and beat the champions, but now a few months later they've decided they can't be arsed again because the same bloke they did well for is, what, too nice on Twitter? Fuck the lot of them, burn it all.bobmunro said:Off_it said:
"The players" didn't like Bowyer either, did they?esseffect said:
If players are doing that then they really need to stop pointing the finger.mendonca said:
I can believe that. I think his coaching team were the tactical men and he was the Mr Motivator. In fact this has become crystal clear.J BLOCK said:According to a player Adkins barely says a word in the dressing room before the game or at half time.Whoever you know J Block sounds like a whingeing bastard
Sounds like they don't like anyone much. Poor lambs.The players stopped liking Bowyer when he started calling them out in public.The players won't play for Adkins because he has zero credibility - Adkins is laughing saying 'walking is great' but fuck all else while the players are laughing at him, not with him.That doesn't excuse the players by the way.
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To have been lost once by the manager could be considered unfortunate to have been lost by successive managers is damn right careless (by the players).0
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I wouldn't go as far as 'I hate footballers' but I agree that they're getting off incredibly lightly, and I really do feel sorry for Adkins. This is the first time maybe ever that I've gotten the sense that some players are semi-actively wrecking us. I won't excuse Bowyer for some of his conduct - it was disgraceful and he picked on the wrong people for the wrong reasons - and Adkins' tactical ideas haven't been perfect, have they, but it's clear that some of our players are quite capable of playing like they're in a sulk, and deliberately refusing to execute a plan.
Sadly, it's easier to replace the manager. But would they do it again?2 -
I like this, you're right some are absolutely stealing a living.Garrymanilow said:
The more I think about this the more it annoys me to be honest. I hate footballers. Adkins has had an absolute pig this season, he's changing formations and personnel constantly, morale seems to be low and fitness is diabolical across the squad, not just with the players who joined late, so I'm not defending his performance, but it's ridiculous that footballers get to decide the direction of the club based on their perception of 'credibility'. Adkins turned up credible, he's managed a team to promotion to the Premier League and improved a number of teams he's been at. How many of our lot have any Premier League credibility? Watson certainly can say he did, and he's one of the only ones who turns up and tries, he's just limited by age. The rest of them though, players we signed on the way down from not cutting it at Premier League academies plying their trade at L1 and L2 level, or dropping down from failure at Championship clubs, they're hardly superstars in the making. They might not like Adkins making silly little videos encouraging positive mental health in people, sure, but if you think the manager isn't credible so you ignore him to play your own way and the plan you cook up in your head is to spend every game lumping it to the big galoot up front's face then you don't need to look any further than the end of your nose to find a lack of credibility. How much better off we would all be if instead of rolling their eyes at the manager some of these actually had a look at themselves. Everyone involved is culpable for our worst ever start to the season, but it's Adkins who will be out on his ear while the rest of these continue to pick up Charlton money and then hopefully decide, if the next manager suits them, that they'll actually do as they're asked and play some football. In a fair few cases this is a lot of players who decided they couldn't be arsed under Bowyer anymore because he was too mean to them, perked up when the manager changed and lost one in 10, stuffed a team 6-0 away and beat the champions, but now a few months later they've decided they can't be arsed again because the same bloke they did well for is, what, too nice on Twitter? Fuck the lot of them, burn it all.bobmunro said:Off_it said:
"The players" didn't like Bowyer either, did they?esseffect said:
If players are doing that then they really need to stop pointing the finger.mendonca said:
I can believe that. I think his coaching team were the tactical men and he was the Mr Motivator. In fact this has become crystal clear.J BLOCK said:According to a player Adkins barely says a word in the dressing room before the game or at half time.Whoever you know J Block sounds like a whingeing bastard
Sounds like they don't like anyone much. Poor lambs.The players stopped liking Bowyer when he started calling them out in public.The players won't play for Adkins because he has zero credibility - Adkins is laughing saying 'walking is great' but fuck all else while the players are laughing at him, not with him.That doesn't excuse the players by the way.1 -
I really do hate them I think, increasingly so. If Adkins got sacked tomorrow then I wouldn't shed a tear from a football perspective, he's not done well this season. I really do feel for him personally though, he's obviously a good man and for all people like making fun of his videos and his positivity, he does these things with the intention of affecting positive change in people's mentalities. It might seem corny to some but it's done with good intentions. I think it's a pretty miserable thing that because it's cheaper to boot the manager than buy a whole new team players now have the ability to dictate the direction a club takes, and worst of all they know it. Every couple of years Chelsea players get to sack their boss because they've changed their mind (loved Mourinho then hated him so stopped playing, loved Conte's slavish devotion to detail then got bored of it the next year so stopped playing, got bored of Sarri's rigidness so stopped playing, will eventually get bored of Tuchel's eccentricities and will stop playing). Our players seem to be feeling that way at the moment, without even being good enough to justify their arrogance. Hazard stopping playing for Mourinho is one nasty thing, but ours barely trying a leg and insulting the manager - and then spreading that round outside the club - is pretty galling. A good man will lose his job, and if these players suddenly decide that the 4-2-3-1 they were executing perfectly well in April is now good enough for them again after looking like they'd never even heard of feet this season, all because there's a new man temporarily telling them to do it then I don't think that will make me feel too proud of them for their new efforts. This happens across football as well, it's not just our lot, though they're looking dangerously like seeing off two managers in short order at the moment.Leuth said:I wouldn't go as far as 'I hate footballers' but I agree that they're getting off incredibly lightly, and I really do feel sorry for Adkins. This is the first time maybe ever that I've gotten the sense that some players are semi-actively wrecking us. I won't excuse Bowyer for some of his conduct - it was disgraceful and he picked on the wrong people for the wrong reasons - and Adkins' tactical ideas haven't been perfect, have they, but it's clear that some of our players are quite capable of playing like they're in a sulk, and deliberately refusing to execute a plan.
Sadly, it's easier to replace the manager. But would they do it again?
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I mentioned after the Portsmouth game that I was sitting right behind our technical area and could hear every word being said by Adkins, he was literally losing his shit at the style of play and I have no doubt that the backwards/sideways slow build up was nothing to do with what he was wanting. From what I could tell the team on the pitch were basically doing their own thing. In that case what is a Manager supposed to do ?Leuth said:I wouldn't go as far as 'I hate footballers' but I agree that they're getting off incredibly lightly, and I really do feel sorry for Adkins. This is the first time maybe ever that I've gotten the sense that some players are semi-actively wrecking us. I won't excuse Bowyer for some of his conduct - it was disgraceful and he picked on the wrong people for the wrong reasons - and Adkins' tactical ideas haven't been perfect, have they, but it's clear that some of our players are quite capable of playing like they're in a sulk, and deliberately refusing to execute a plan.
Sadly, it's easier to replace the manager. But would they do it again?9 -
We keep going on about the players but how is it we manage to sign all the players with a bad attitude?AndyG said:
I mentioned after the Portsmouth game that I was sitting right behind our technical area and could hear every word being said by Adkins, he was literally losing his shit at the style of play and I have no doubt that the backwards/sideways slow build up was nothing to do with what he was wanting. From what I could tell the team on the pitch were basically doing their own thing. In that case what is a Manager supposed to do ?Leuth said:I wouldn't go as far as 'I hate footballers' but I agree that they're getting off incredibly lightly, and I really do feel sorry for Adkins. This is the first time maybe ever that I've gotten the sense that some players are semi-actively wrecking us. I won't excuse Bowyer for some of his conduct - it was disgraceful and he picked on the wrong people for the wrong reasons - and Adkins' tactical ideas haven't been perfect, have they, but it's clear that some of our players are quite capable of playing like they're in a sulk, and deliberately refusing to execute a plan.
Sadly, it's easier to replace the manager. But would they do it again?0 -
I suppose OPTA stats and analytical models can tell you everything you need to know about a players, except whether they are a c*nt.
There's a lot to be said for Curbs attention to detail and due diligence of a player's character5 -
Quit, if they are ignoring his instruction, he has definitely lost the dressing room and Managers always pay for that as it is their job to keep them onside and manage personalities in the squad.AndyG said:
I mentioned after the Portsmouth game that I was sitting right behind our technical area and could hear every word being said by Adkins, he was literally losing his shit at the style of play and I have no doubt that the backwards/sideways slow build up was nothing to do with what he was wanting. From what I could tell the team on the pitch were basically doing their own thing. In that case what is a Manager supposed to do ?Leuth said:I wouldn't go as far as 'I hate footballers' but I agree that they're getting off incredibly lightly, and I really do feel sorry for Adkins. This is the first time maybe ever that I've gotten the sense that some players are semi-actively wrecking us. I won't excuse Bowyer for some of his conduct - it was disgraceful and he picked on the wrong people for the wrong reasons - and Adkins' tactical ideas haven't been perfect, have they, but it's clear that some of our players are quite capable of playing like they're in a sulk, and deliberately refusing to execute a plan.
Sadly, it's easier to replace the manager. But would they do it again?0 -
I very much doubt they're all cnuts. I expect we have one or two sh*t stirrers though that are creating problems.Six-a-bag-of-nuts said:I suppose OPTA stats and analytical models can tell you everything you need to know about a players, except whether they are a c*nt.
There's a lot to be said for Curbs attention to detail and due diligence of a player's character0 -
Dressings rooms are quite easy to lose in football at all levels when you have defeat after defeat. I do have sympathy with the thought that professional footballers should do everything they can for the manager and club as that is what they are being paid to do but human nature kicks in. It always has to be somebody's fault. I doubt Adkins has handled problems that were not of his doing well though and all the chopping and changing reeks of desperation. Sometimes you have to make the change as leave them as they are and they become increasingly toxic.1
