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My dog

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    T_C_E said:
    RVN here. Just a few notes re insurance. 
    Most of the stories you hear about insurers “refusing” to pay out are given by owners who will not give the entire story. That’s not to say it doesn’t happen but in my experience every insurance claim I have processed has been paid out. If the policy has been had and remained in place continuously since the cat/dog was first owned, depending on your cover type there is absolutely no reason the insurer won’t pay. They do. It’s that simple. (Note cover type being lifetime vs 12month policy). 

    Now, where things get confusing is, particularly with rescues, any pre-existing condition will automatically be excluded and non claimable. What can and unfortunately does happen is that a rescue or rehomed animal with history at vet A may then be seen at vet B with new owners for the same issue. The new owners may not have any clue about previous history and taken insurance in good faith, but that responsibility lies completely between old and new owners. In some cases the truth is bent to ensure the animal is rehomed as people are statistically far less open to taking on an animal with behavioural/medical issues. 

    The cost of pet insurance is rising and there are multiple factors that could be contributing to this: 
    The cost of purchasing animals increasing by the ridiculous amount it has
    The increase in thefts of animals (as most insurers contribute towards finder rewards)
    Veterinary treatment cost increases 

    The comparisons to car insurance are also a bit much IMO. 
    Let’s put it this way. You have a brand new car with a value of £12-15k. If you do that amount of damage to the car. It’s written off and the insurer pays that value. Once. 

    If your puppy is unfortunate enough to be born with a condition such as IBD, they have the relevant tests to confirm it with treatment at the initial visit and this is covered by the insurers and this hits your policy limit. Next year they have a flare up, insurer pays 2-3k again. And again. Over 10 years that’s 20-30grand the insurer has covered. Assuming the policy was kept of course. Taking that into account. Would you rather pay £5-8k over the animals life for insurance cover. Or the vet fees? 
    Now I get not every animal will be born with IBD. Some will be dysplasia, or allergies, or eye problems etc and unfortunately the British love for dogs prone to these conditions without fully researching them leaves them in a difficult position. 



    You say “the cost of animals has risen so much”  which I believe you to mean over the past few years etc. Unscrupulous people breeding dogs and knocking them out for 2/3k upwards how is that a concern of an insurance company? 
    If I went to to dodgy Dan the car dealer and paid 3k over book price for a motor are you saying the insurance company would pay out when it went bang? 
    I paid the same price for Bowyer as I did for Bailey 11years earlier I understand there might have been “mates rates” applied to my dogs but the breeders price only rose £100 in those 10 + years. 
    The association between pharmaceutical companies, veterinary practitioners, animal food manufacturers and insurance companies needs to more transparent, for example Colgate-Palmolive who own Hills Scientific have been “Supporting” the Vets industry for years so when someone asks what’s the best grub I can feed my dog it comes as no surprise the vets recommend hills and while I believe it’s the top end of the complete dog food market people believe it’s marvellous because the vet recommended it. 
    The practice of giving our dogs boosters on a yearly basis, when titre testing is available to check our dogs immunity levels is not ?
    Why is it recommended we fill our dogs with chemicals in relation to flea and worm treatments when they don’t have fleas and worms? 
    Why are the risks of side affects not explained and animals dying when given these treatment? 
    One of the charities my Therapy dogs used to represent told its members, it would no longer welcome Raw fed animals and existing members would have to change the animals diet to a complete, this despite several members feeding raw for medical reasons. No surprises the board of said charity is made up of several people from the dog food industry. 
    When I go to a vet, I expect their concerns to be about the animal not about if it’s insured or not. 

    The concern is in the insurance claim form, for some. Where it asks “how much did you pay for your animal” If you read all the policy details and terms/conditions there are some that will cover the cost you paid in the event of unexplained death in a puppy. This overall average purchase price increasing, leads to insurers potentially being liable for more and therefore higher insurance premiums. 
    I do feel a lot of this I will agree to disagree but the one point I’d highlight. Re flea and worm treatments, the point of vets recommending them is to prevent subsequent disease. Like tick borne disease mentioned early in this post. Lungworm leading to pneumonia. Flea induced anaemia. The list goes on. This is why they are branded preventative products. It’s not to prevent the parasite but to prevent subsequent disease. 

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    T_C_E said:
    RVN here. Just a few notes re insurance. 
    Most of the stories you hear about insurers “refusing” to pay out are given by owners who will not give the entire story. That’s not to say it doesn’t happen but in my experience every insurance claim I have processed has been paid out. If the policy has been had and remained in place continuously since the cat/dog was first owned, depending on your cover type there is absolutely no reason the insurer won’t pay. They do. It’s that simple. (Note cover type being lifetime vs 12month policy). 

    Now, where things get confusing is, particularly with rescues, any pre-existing condition will automatically be excluded and non claimable. What can and unfortunately does happen is that a rescue or rehomed animal with history at vet A may then be seen at vet B with new owners for the same issue. The new owners may not have any clue about previous history and taken insurance in good faith, but that responsibility lies completely between old and new owners. In some cases the truth is bent to ensure the animal is rehomed as people are statistically far less open to taking on an animal with behavioural/medical issues. 

    The cost of pet insurance is rising and there are multiple factors that could be contributing to this: 
    The cost of purchasing animals increasing by the ridiculous amount it has
    The increase in thefts of animals (as most insurers contribute towards finder rewards)
    Veterinary treatment cost increases 

    The comparisons to car insurance are also a bit much IMO. 
    Let’s put it this way. You have a brand new car with a value of £12-15k. If you do that amount of damage to the car. It’s written off and the insurer pays that value. Once. 

    If your puppy is unfortunate enough to be born with a condition such as IBD, they have the relevant tests to confirm it with treatment at the initial visit and this is covered by the insurers and this hits your policy limit. Next year they have a flare up, insurer pays 2-3k again. And again. Over 10 years that’s 20-30grand the insurer has covered. Assuming the policy was kept of course. Taking that into account. Would you rather pay £5-8k over the animals life for insurance cover. Or the vet fees? 
    Now I get not every animal will be born with IBD. Some will be dysplasia, or allergies, or eye problems etc and unfortunately the British love for dogs prone to these conditions without fully researching them leaves them in a difficult position. 



    You say “the cost of animals has risen so much”  which I believe you to mean over the past few years etc. Unscrupulous people breeding dogs and knocking them out for 2/3k upwards how is that a concern of an insurance company? 
    If I went to to dodgy Dan the car dealer and paid 3k over book price for a motor are you saying the insurance company would pay out when it went bang? 
    I paid the same price for Bowyer as I did for Bailey 11years earlier I understand there might have been “mates rates” applied to my dogs but the breeders price only rose £100 in those 10 + years. 
    The association between pharmaceutical companies, veterinary practitioners, animal food manufacturers and insurance companies needs to more transparent, for example Colgate-Palmolive who own Hills Scientific have been “Supporting” the Vets industry for years so when someone asks what’s the best grub I can feed my dog it comes as no surprise the vets recommend hills and while I believe it’s the top end of the complete dog food market people believe it’s marvellous because the vet recommended it. 
    The practice of giving our dogs boosters on a yearly basis, when titre testing is available to check our dogs immunity levels is not ?
    Why is it recommended we fill our dogs with chemicals in relation to flea and worm treatments when they don’t have fleas and worms? 
    Why are the risks of side affects not explained and animals dying when given these treatment? 
    One of the charities my Therapy dogs used to represent told its members, it would no longer welcome Raw fed animals and existing members would have to change the animals diet to a complete, this despite several members feeding raw for medical reasons. No surprises the board of said charity is made up of several people from the dog food industry. 
    When I go to a vet, I expect their concerns to be about the animal not about if it’s insured or not. 

    The concern is in the insurance claim form, for some. Where it asks “how much did you pay for your animal” If you read all the policy details and terms/conditions there are some that will cover the cost you paid in the event of unexplained death in a puppy. This overall average purchase price increasing, leads to insurers potentially being liable for more and therefore higher insurance premiums. 
    I do feel a lot of this I will agree to disagree but the one point I’d highlight. Re flea and worm treatments, the point of vets recommending them is to prevent subsequent disease. Like tick borne disease mentioned early in this post. Lungworm leading to pneumonia. Flea induced anaemia. The list goes on. This is why they are branded preventative products. It’s not to prevent the parasite but to prevent subsequent disease. 

    I'm sure we will agree to disagree Andy but nowt wrong with debate ;), but on the flea treatment subject........... one brand in particular Nexgard has a horrendous reputation for side affects and I believe deaths in some dogs contains Afoxolaner a Pesticide how many owners are aware before they give it to their puppy?  it was given to my dog without knowledge as to what it was. Fortunately he is big enough to withstand the shock to his system but it took two years for his coat to recover. As to the vets diagnosis to him biting his back end was flea bites! This also was wrong as it was his Anal Glands something else a raw diet helped cure.
    Titre testing for immunity rather than annual booster, why is this not commonly spoken about, Id wager less than 10% reading this thread know what it is or why a dog would have it?  
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    Wonderful story @addix and it must be so hard today for you and your family. However you took a GSD rescue who'd had a very tough start to life and gave her a loving home for nearly 14 years you cannot have done any more.
    Losing a family pet is always hard but she is now at 'The Bridge' where she will be waiting. RIP Purdy...run free at Rainbow Bridge xx
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    Thinking of you today, @addix

    Sleep tight, dear Purdy.
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    Our thoughts are with you @addix, like you we took on a rescue Shep she is a senior now and although she could start a row in an empty room we wouldn't part with her for the world and consider every day she is with us a blessing. 
    Your Purdy is painfree now and is off over the Bridge, Run free beautiful girl x
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    Sorry for your loss addix.
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    I wish you hadn’t mentioned The Rainbow Bridge, read that and it always sets me off.
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    RIP Nelson and Purdy xx
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    Great news (I was worried what you were going to say).
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    The news we were all hoping to hear ! 

    Please keep us updated, @Greenhithe.
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    That's great to hear @Greenhithe I'm so pleased for you your family and of course Freddie.
    It definitely, to me, sounds like a problem with the 'tick' or some kind of poison, not necessarily on purpose.
    I hope he continues his recovery.
    Thanks for updating everyone mate.
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    Great news - now you have to take him out in this horrible weather and get soaked 😉
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    Go Freddie!
    I’m delighted for you ❤️❤️❤️
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    Great news @Greenhithe, so pleased for you all especially the little guy. 
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    Fantastic to hear @Greenhithe, and well done Freddie! 
    Hope he's being spoiled rotten as his recovery continues.
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    @T_C_E please can you post that picture again of @Redmidland sitting with your dogs, where it looks like they about to eat him - has me in stitches every time I see that !!!
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    @T_C_E please can you post that picture again of @Redmidland sitting with your dogs, where it looks like they about to eat him - has me in stitches every time I see that !!!
    As long as it's not the one with Red in the mankini. I still have nightmares.
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    Oh my goodness @T_C_E I'd be so proud of those dogs if they were mine.

    Great news on Freddie too.  Wishing him many more marvelous squirrel chasing days.  👍
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    T_C_E said:

    Thinking of moving off that sofa, think again !!!

    Great photo, love it !!!
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    I feel sorry for people who do not realise how wonderful dogs are. The same people have no concept of their intelligence either as they don't realise it is a different intelligence. I agree with Blackpool that companion is a more appropriate word than pet. JJ is part of our family and we are part of his. If he belongs to us, we belong to him equally.
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    I feel sorry for people who do not realise how wonderful dogs are. The same people have no concept of their intelligence either as they don't realise it is a different intelligence. I agree with Blackpool that companion is a more appropriate word than pet. JJ is part of our family and we are part of his. If he belongs to us, we belong to him equally.
    Companion is preferable to pet I agree.
    I had a similar conversation with someone on social media, when I said “ I don’t own my dogs, I own their registration papers” I believe she missed the concept of what I was saying by replying “mine don’t have flash registration papers and I paid cash for him, so I do own him” 
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