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Charlton TV - free end of season show Tues 18th May 7pm (p7)
Comments
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What’s the real difference with someone living abroad and someone living in Carlisle ? Not being able to get to games is the same issue. Perhaps in order to get a stream you need to buy a season ticket. Obviously not as much as a season ticket into The Valley but perhaps £15 per match paid in advance. 🤷🏻♂️sammy391 said:Personally believe the best way around it, is to still offer the valley pass/Charlton TV to overseas fans- but whilst keeping the pre and post match chat with curbs still going - just having it played on the big screen and make an event out of the game!Instead of music that’s played currently whilst fans wait in the stadium, give them a reason to get in early! Give them something to watch on the concourse and in their seat aka the Charlton TV show!Keeps production costs at the same rates whilst getting fans in their seats and included in on the action!1 -
Continuing valley pass while people can go to games in my opinion will be detrimental to attendances and is therefore a bad idea. Sorry if you live in Yorkshire etc, where you wouldn’t go anyway but thats just tough luck.3
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Interesting idea but I think the genie is out of the bottle now and current consumption demand is on a pay as you go basis. Particularly for away games a demand can be satisfied that otherwise would not generate any extra income.ShootersHillGuru said:
What’s the real difference with someone living abroad and someone living in Carlisle ? Not being able to get to games is the same issue. Perhaps in order to get a stream you need to buy a season ticket. Obviously not as much as a season ticket into The Valley but perhaps £15 per match paid in advance. 🤷🏻♂️sammy391 said:Personally believe the best way around it, is to still offer the valley pass/Charlton TV to overseas fans- but whilst keeping the pre and post match chat with curbs still going - just having it played on the big screen and make an event out of the game!Instead of music that’s played currently whilst fans wait in the stadium, give them a reason to get in early! Give them something to watch on the concourse and in their seat aka the Charlton TV show!Keeps production costs at the same rates whilst getting fans in their seats and included in on the action!Society today is time poor with numerous demands on us all and importantly many are now less able to commit to all / as many matches even if they are at the more traditional kick off times. Many people no longer work a traditional 9 to 5.If you charge too much you may as well have a Sky subscription and hope the red button service is extended.Continue as we are today. It can work I think.2 -
People want more shared revenue in football, but don't realise televising 3pm kick offs will just keep the rich richer. More money for sky, more money for the 'big teams', less money for the locals. Live match streams/broadcasts should be banned at 3pm, as they were before.1
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The other side of that arguement is our situation/history of supporting the mighty Addicks.roseandcrown said:Streams I would fear would hurt the long term grow of clubs like Charlton.You don’t support Charlton for the glory, the bug for me come from a young 7 year old going to his first game the crowd the noise the whole match day experience. You can’t replicate that on a steam and have that connection.I can’t see the kids of the future falling for Charlton because there dad, uncle etc put it on the tele. It then becomes no different to Liverpool, Man U etc so why would they choose Charlton in league 1.
We both attended matches as young'uns, but more so Mr F who joined his Grandad at The Valley for years. Myself, less frequently having been a Dartford supporter alongside my uncle and cousin.
When we met, we travelled to home games spasmodically but were not regulars. Then we married and had our 2 sprogs in the 70's with money not very plentiful after paying the mortgage but we followed our club via the radio & papers.
IF we'd had the option of paying a relatively small fee to continue our "active" support by watching our team live on TV, then I am guessing that, we would have captured the attention of our kids from the outset. We could also have found alternatives to occupy our Saturdays & the habit/love of going to games may have never returned. As it turned out, our son was never "into" football but we did return to the terraces in 1989 & since that time have held season tickets apart from 1 season under the stewardship of the Belgian. Our daughter attended regularly until she married but returned to the fold 3 years ago, along with our 2 eldest grandkids. We have all watched every match on VP since covid entered our lives and purchased our 5 season tickets as soon as they went on sale.
We are now in our 70s and live an additional 55+ miles further away from SE7. We hope to continue our 100% attendance of home games & as many away games as possible for the foreseeable future ...BUT who knows how long our health will allow this. I cannot bear to think about the possibility of not being fit enough to "feed our habit" by watching our lads play every week of the season. Should we be confined to barracks, as they say, with no way of watching matches live, I think it would break my heart....
While the fountain of youth remains undiscovered, this will inevitably be the future for most of us in time, regardless of our sticking our fingers in our ears and chanting loudly " Nigel Adkins' red & white army" ad infinitum....I'm sure most of us will know someone who fits into this scenario, alongside those younger supporters like Jim & John whose current health issues sadly prevent their attendance for a period of time.
And we shouldn't forget that this drug called CAFC makes inroads into everyone's budget. That dreaded word "redundancy" and the like is not reserved for fans of teams oop north either. Regardless of whether you are a lone supporter or whether you attend with family members, especially if travel costs are also involved, it is not a cheap "hobby". To be able to watch a live match, ideally alongside others to share the cost of the stream, would be fantastic as a means of continuing your support through what may be difficult times. And before you know it, the neighbours are enquiring what those screams emanating from the adjacent house are all about ...and are asking if they could join you every Saturday ! What better way is there to increase our number ?
Somewhat long winded ( what's new?) but felt the need to elaborate on the scenarios already mentioned & to remind everyone that we never know what might be lurking around the corner, ready to bite us on the proverbial....
In Thomas we trust to do whatever he can, covering as many bases as possible, to enable Addicks everywhere to actively support our famous football club.
All for one & one for All.
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You and me both sir , we can but dreamclive said:all i want is to see a full Valley & as many people as possible follow the team to away matches to try & get the club back up the leagues asap.3 -
If people want to watch streams there are ways. Assuming the streams will remain open to international fans, we all know that a number of people have previously used VPNs to access these. It's also common knowledge that Android devices exist wher you can get access to EFL games for a minimal one-off payment. It's also well-known that these are illegal and also can be unreliable.But, despite not making the play-offs, these are the most exciting times for a Charlton fan for some time. If fans want to be a part of it, the best way is to turn up regularly at The Valley and support the team. And I'm sure most fans that are able will be doing so next season.1
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It is incumbent on a well run club to look at the opportunities. Can it be made to work for the benefit of the game? Can it be made to work for the benefit of Charlton? And maybe even more to the point, is it inevitable? If so, all the more reason to make it work for you.
When a certain number of us were young, the only live football on TV was internationals and the FA Cup final. We can't go back there even if we want to and I am sure a number would say it would be better to. We have to look at what is coming and embrace it and manage it as that is how to secure the best outcome for our club.3 -
I've deliberately stayed off this thread for a few days because I wanted to see what others, particularly those opposed to streaming continuing, said. And there have been some really good points raised. In the light of them, a few final comments from me.
This whole thread could be redundant if the EFL do not drop their rule that games cannot be shown live at 3.00pm on a Saturday. Mind you, even if that do that I'm sure overseas screening will continue which just opens up the whole VPN debate again which I won't go into here. And as there is no ruling that midweek games cannot be shown live, I'd have a little bet they will continue (as in the IFollow days). So I think there will be some form of streaming going forward next year come what may.
@JohnnyH2 made a good point about whether the smaller clubs would vote for streaming to continue and whether Sky would accept it. My guess - and purely that - is that if the bigger clubs want it, it will get railroaded through. And actually if the smaller clubs can be persuaded they will make money out of it, I'm sure they will go along with it anyway. As for Sky, who knows what they think, but I doubt they could stop it actually happening.
There seem to be 2 schools of thought why streaming shouldn't continue . The first - and I fully understand where people are coming from with this - is that it will effect attendances if it is too "easy" to watch at home and ultimately revenue. I'm sure we all agree watching football live, with fellow Charlton fans, is the best way to do it. Celebrations for the last minute Johnnie Jackson goal against QPR in the stadium don't compare with sitting at home in front of a computer. So I just don't think thousands of people will opt out of going to watch from home, particulary as for many going to a game is an opportunity to catch up with mates or just get out of the house! I'm sure streaming will mostly be used by people who wouldn't otherwise have gone to watch the match, thereby putting some money into the club's account.
And I just don't accept that if Man Utd v Liverpool is on live, Charlton supporters will pay to watch that rather than our own game. That surely is a red herring
The second is that if people decide to move away from the SE London/Kent area, they shouldn't expect to be able to watch the game. I just don't follow that line of reasoning when the technology enabling them to do so is available. And as @AndyG said, people move around more now for jobs etc so fans ate going to be more widely dispersed in future.
My main "sparring partner" on this matter over recent months has been @clive. Reading his post above, I can only take my hat off to his loyalty and dedication to the cause. (We all know about Seb but support like his should also be publicised). But with the greatest respect, most of us neither have the time, money or dare I say dedication to follow his lead. As @valleynick66said "Society today is time poor with numerous demands on us all and importantly many are now less able to commit to all / as many matches even if they are at the more traditional kick off times. Many people no longer work a traditional 9 to 5. " If streaming let's people who want to watch games but don't have the time on a Saturday to spend a large portion of the day out of the house, then it should be utilised.
And what a great post from @Fanny Fanackapan Believe it or not, you guys who are in your 20s and 30s will one day be stopping half way up the East Stand steps for a "view stop". Streaming will be a wonderful way for older supporters to keep in touch by watching matches.
At the end of the day, if streaming does continue I suspect the price of the stream will need to be looked at in conjunction with match tickets and not separately. What those prices should be are for the marketing men to determine. And as @MuttleyCAFC has said above, it is incumbent on a well run club to look at the opportunities. As he also says whether it can be made to work for the benefit of the game and for the benefit of Charlton will ultimately determine whether it goes ahead next year.
But irrespective of whether or not it does go ahead, streaming will come in. People have tasted the new technology, like it and are prepared to pay for it. New technology that passes those 2 tests has never been put back into their box and streaming of live games won't be either. The technology is here now and it's the future. It really is that simple.14 -
Charge more if continued.
Make the wireless commentary separate from the television commentary.
Sorted.0 - Sponsored links:
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I don't think the danger is about losing current fans. It's about the next generation of fans, and those on the fringe.Fortune 82nd Minute said:
And I just don't accept that if Man Utd v Liverpool is on live, Charlton supporters will pay to watch that rather than our own game. That surely is a red herring7 -
Especially for the smaller clubs than ourselvesCroydon said:
I don't think the danger is about losing current fans. It's about the next generation of fans, and those on the fringe.Fortune 82nd Minute said:
And I just don't accept that if Man Utd v Liverpool is on live, Charlton supporters will pay to watch that rather than our own game. That surely is a red herring
"Do you fancy watching Stockport this afternoon?"
"No thanks Dad, I'll be watching City play Aston Villa instead"3 -
In that case "Dad" should put his bloody foot down, show some discipline, and take the ignorant little gob-shite anyway!killerandflash said:
Especially for the smaller clubs than ourselvesCroydon said:
I don't think the danger is about losing current fans. It's about the next generation of fans, and those on the fringe.Fortune 82nd Minute said:
And I just don't accept that if Man Utd v Liverpool is on live, Charlton supporters will pay to watch that rather than our own game. That surely is a red herring
"Do you fancy watching Stockport this afternoon?"
"No thanks Dad, I'll be watching City play Aston Villa instead"
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I thought Charlton TV was excellent, so much better than the ifollow offering. Terry, Greg and Brownie were great together, Minto, Curbs and the guests set up each game very well and the interviews and 'memory lane' segments were really enjoyable.
Ive seen every game home and away this season (except for the bloody Mickey mouse cup games) and enjoyed all of it. I hope it can keep going as I also live away from London but have had the opportunity to join in with everyone else via Charlton TV. Also, as some of you know, I've also been struggling with mental health issues over the last year, but Charlton TV has been my escape for a few hours every week, I really hope it can stay.
Thank you to Thomas and the production team for an excellent product, it's been so helpful on a personal basis to me.19 -
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With respect, I don't think for the last 30 years kids growing up in Stockport, Bury, Rochdale have been supporting their local club.killerandflash said:
Especially for the smaller clubs than ourselvesCroydon said:
I don't think the danger is about losing current fans. It's about the next generation of fans, and those on the fringe.Fortune 82nd Minute said:
And I just don't accept that if Man Utd v Liverpool is on live, Charlton supporters will pay to watch that rather than our own game. That surely is a red herring
"Do you fancy watching Stockport this afternoon?"
"No thanks Dad, I'll be watching City play Aston Villa instead"0 -
I relocated six months ago from the Surrey area (from where I travelled to most home games and several away games each season) to the Cotswolds. I don't see that as having "deserted the local area". I haven't lived within 5 miles of The Valley since I left home for university 48 years ago. Like many others, life, career opportunities and family have led me to move around both in the UK and abroad.clive said:
I cannot believe 'the trust' are backing the idea of the continuation of the live streaming matches when fans are allowed back in stadiums, this will lead to a decline in attendances & will kill lower league & non league clubs.Weegie Addick said:
It's on the list of a few things we're talking with the club about. The main hurdle is likely to be the EFL's broadcast deal which I believe prohibits streaming of Sat 3pm matches in UK & Ireland and still has at least a couple of years to run. It was changed specifically and only because of Covid. But let's see - you would hope something could be worked out for the benefit of all parties given the sucess of streaming in general and Charlton TV in particular.ShootersHillGuru said:Perhaps the Trust could petition the club to keep this going. I’m sure Thomas would understand why it would be a popular decision.
We have already have the opportunity of seeing all the goals/ highlights on Quest tv & Sky, something that was never available years ago.
The trust should be helping the club sell season tickets to people in SE London & kent rather than worrying about people who have deserted the local area or cannot be bothered to leave their homes to support their team.
My wife and I have managed to watch virtually every game via iFollow/Valley Pass this season. I suspect I will only travel to a handful of games next season from our new location. Although I am fully aware there are many who will still travel distances greater than ours to the home games, I am afraid those days are over for me. Not a case of "cannot be bothered" just simply too impractical from my perspective in terms of time and cost. However, if all the games were still available to view at even say £20-25 a game I would pay that. I hope and suspect that the genie is now out of the bottle regarding televising live matches at 3 pm on a Saturday etc. Fingers crossed from my perspective.9 -
Here are a few thoughts, probably a bit disjointed as I'm chucking stuff down as I think of it and so may not be as coherent as it could be (apologies) ... but most of it is a repeat of what I've been saying over the months anyway ...
In the short term I think this is going to be a difficult nut to crack.
At present lower league clubs' business models are centred around 3pm on a Saturday afternoon (with some midweek fixtures) and bums on seats, supplemented by community use of the facilities on non-match days where possible. You would imagine that revenue from the TV deals would be minimal in Divisions Three and Four. With that in mind the Saturday 3pm broadcast ban makes sense.
The last year has shown that there is a demand for live match streaming even though there may have been Premier League (or even Championship) matches live on Sky/BT/Amazon/BBC at the same time.
The downside of the streaming is that it enables multiple viewers of one purchased stream e.g. families can pay for one stream and watch together.
There has to be a delicate balancing act: some of the smaller clubs have low gates and they may decide that streaming their matches may hit their attendances harder then, say, the likes of Charlton, Sunderland, and Pompey, because the number of streams they sell won't make up for the reduction in tickets sold.
Some clubs may not be supportive of widespread streaming (yet) for other reasons such as commercial contracts they may have in place for match-day services e.g catering, stewarding; they may not want to pay for services not being used and it may cost too much to cancel the contracts early.
How will new-world streaming income plus gate money compare to just old-world gate money?
Almost certainly, clubs around the country - in all divisions - will have to re-tune their business strategies in the coming years to cope with the post-pandemic environment.
Why would Sky object to Third and Fourth Division clubs streaming their matches? Sky don't give a stuff about these divisions (and most of the Championship, to be honest) only showing matches from the lower-reaches of the league during international or FA Cup breaks when there are no matches in the top two divisions, and then from the final day through to the play-off finals. We could already watch midweek matches on Valley Pass/Charlton TV/iFollow in this country so why not extend that to weekends?
Would streaming of matches harm the future fan base of clubs? We've had over 35 years of live League football on TV, mostly of the so-called big clubs (and Spurs). I would say that has had more of an impact on smaller clubs' support. I see far too many Man Utd, Liverpool, Arsenal shirts in this part of the world when the predominant colour should be yellow and green (and that's got nothing to do with Man Utd!).
Not everybody has the chance to go to see their local club when they're youngsters, for a variety of reasons, so why not give them the opportunity to watch the club on a stream, and get them hooked so that they'll want to get to the ground for a match at some point in the future.
However, I do find it a tad simplistic that people automatically assume because a match is available for streaming no-one will want to attend.
I am a season ticket holder. As the crow flies I live about 105 miles from The Valley; that becomes at least 125 miles by road and on a really good day it can take just over 2½ hours to drive down but normally it'll be 3+ hours. I attend every home game that I can, including midweek matches where I may not get home until after 1am. I don't go to away matches (unless they're at Carrow Road or The Walks, King's Lynn).
EDIT: For a 3pm Saturday kick-off I have to leave home about 10am so that I stand a chance of getting a parking spot within walking distance of the ground (I have grandson no 2 these days so it can't be miles and miles away) - if there's any kind of hold-up I'm buggered! - and I won't get back home until well after 8pm.
I've loved Charlton TV over the last year or so - it's enabled me to see many more matches than I would have done normally (away games!), and since the upgrade earlier this season it's become one of the highlights of my week (shame about the footy bit in the middle really) but given the choice I'd rather watch our home games from my seat in the back row of the Top Drawer of the Cupboard End; that way I can watch the areas of the pitch that I want to instead of where the play is so I can see the off-the-ball movement of players etc. I'm sure I'm not the only one who would rather watch a match "live" instead of TV.
In previous years I'd signed up to Valley Pass so that I could listen to the away matches (or any home game I had to miss because of holidays, illness etc) but if I had the chance to watch them on Charlton TV that would be terrific.
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Be nice if they kept it for some matches .0
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Another thing for a bit if context. The Sunderland game was where we sold most streams (UK purchases) for us which was 5,795. We have already sold more season tickets than that. Is the cost setting this up when we are back in the ground going to be justified for even lower numbers than we have had this season.2
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W can in not be continued with the pre mid and post match shown live at the ground with the commentary also available for those not at the ground ? A reasonable compromise ?0
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Would lose a lot of subscriptions covering costs of course but may be made up for with extra bodies drinking and watching at the ground before and after0
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I expect the ever popular cahones to lead discussions on what to do with fans that have “deserted “ SE7 over the years. To make matters worse I’ve done it twice and I’m often at the Valley and don’t stay for the game so I’m at least worthy of a good kicking😳😳😳
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I remember the Middlesbrough home game last season. It was the week before lockdown and I was torn. I wanted to go as per usual, but I felt it was not safe. I am grateful I had been watching away games I definitely wouldn't have attended using a VPN as it persuaded me to watch that one via a VPN.
The point is, it wasn't hard at all to watch games even before lockdown. You buy a good VPN for £3.99 a month and you can buy and watch games. That fact has to be factored in. I have managed to buy a couple of games for Greg and Terry's commentary when they were not available due to sky transmission with my VPN transporting me to a dark market. Money the club wouldn't have got without a VPN, although to be fair, I only bought the Doncaster away game because I mistakenly thought there would be some sort of pre-match show!1 -
I've long wondered if the future for lower league clubs might be to set the match ticket price at whatever level is required to fill the stadium, and then on top of that charge a premium price for a live stream for anyone who wants to watch it - particularly away supporters. The people in the ground would then be part of the product, helping to enhance its value and in doing so helping to increase sales of the stream.2
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I've absolutely loved it, living abroad it has been so good, ask the in jokes, all the heroes coming through.
Its been absolutely terrific.2 -
I do think that is a possibility if the numbers work and clubs benefit from it.HarryHutchens said:I've long wondered if the future for lower league clubs might be to set the match ticket price at whatever level is required to fill the stadium, and then on top of that charge a premium price for a live stream for anyone who wants to watch it - particularly away supporters. The people in the ground would then be part of the product, helping to enhance its value and in doing so helping to increase sales of the stream.0 -
Can’t agree with this. It shouldn’t be more expensive than being at the ground in my opinion. Whilst that would be good value still when more than 1 person watching it wouldn’t be attractive for a single view. It’s a lesser product than in person / at the ground after all.MuttleyCAFC said:
I do think that is a possibility if the numbers work and clubs benefit from it.HarryHutchens said:I've long wondered if the future for lower league clubs might be to set the match ticket price at whatever level is required to fill the stadium, and then on top of that charge a premium price for a live stream for anyone who wants to watch it - particularly away supporters. The people in the ground would then be part of the product, helping to enhance its value and in doing so helping to increase sales of the stream.The reason it’s popular now is partly price related.0 -
Agree that for those of us living abroad
its a great service1 -
To fill our stadium at the moment you would regrettably have to pay people to attend.HarryHutchens said:I've long wondered if the future for lower league clubs might be to set the match ticket price at whatever level is required to fill the stadium, and then on top of that charge a premium price for a live stream for anyone who wants to watch it - particularly away supporters. The people in the ground would then be part of the product, helping to enhance its value and in doing so helping to increase sales of the stream.1
