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Wayne Rooney's Derby County - not any more (p41)
Comments
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I ment if the asset was worth more than HMRCs debt, not the total debts.Redrobo said:
If the assets are worth more than the debt then everyone would get their money. It has been awhile, but I think that the only PAYE and NIC that get priority above everyone, is the PAYE and NIC that the administrator deducts from employees.Cafc43v3r said:
They aren't preferred creditors but they won't take pennies in the pound if the assets are more than their debt. Especially when it's PAYE and NI. As is the case with Derby.Redrobo said:
HMRC used to be preferential creditors, but not any more.Cafc43v3r said:
The law of the land does put HMRC first.ShootersHillGuru said:
Yeah but I think the law of the land needs to be tightened up on this. There should be a list of priority creditors but off the top of my head it should start with HMRC followed by the Police, local authority and any registered charity. After that, in my opinion Krystian Bielik is no more a priority than 50 boxes of steak and kidney pies.golfaddick said:ShootersHillGuru said:
If I’m honest I still don’t see why Arsenal should have any priority for payment over and above local trades people.Chunes said:
I agree........but sadly it's in their rules which is voted on by the league's chairman.ShootersHillGuru said:
If I’m honest I still don’t see why Arsenal should have any priority for payment over and above local trades people.Chunes said:
Would people feel differently if Derby owed Rochdale 800k than if they did Arsenal 8 million. I suspect they would.
I think that most reasonable people would expect that all creditors should be treated equally. It is grossly unfair that one person gets all their money and someone else gets nothing.
And it is unfair, but if you got made bankrupt owning a massive bar tab, would you expect the land lord to let you back after paying 10p in the £1?
No, I would not expect to be let back in. I would also not expect it to be down to me which of the people I owed money too got paid and which didn’t.
HMRC will persue unpaid PAYE and NI much more aggressively than other taxes because its clear cut what has and hasn't been paid from the pay roll. Its clear what is owed and when it was due.
No one is saying they have to pay the football debts over the pie bill. Just they do have to pay the football debts, in full, to play in the league. I am not sure why that's so controversial, other that in this case it is owed to Arsenal.0 -
It makes our spell in the Championship even more frustrating, bet Bowyer would have loved to have signed Beilik again when we got promoted - But rightly didnt because we could never have paid £2m or £10m for him.randy andy said:It's quite simple, if there wasn't football credit being thrown around then there wouldn't be any problem about football debts being paid.
For example, Derby offer Arsenal £10m for Beilik, spead over 5 years or some other nonsense. Arsenal look at Derby and that's a big risk, we'll take the cash up front thanks, unless your owner wants to personally guarantee the credit. Problem solved. There's only need for football debts to be paid first because football clubs don't want to pay up front and other clubs are stupid enough to offer credit to businesses any proper lender wouldn't touch with a barge poll.
Seriously, no bank would loan Derby even thousands of pounds, let alone millions, but arsenal were happy to. And everybody else is somehow supposed to protect arsenal from their own stupid business decisions.
If you can't pay up front for a player, then hard luck, go and get a cheaper player or a loanee, or a free agent.
Seems what we should have done instead was offer everyone £500k now and £50m in the future for their players.
Am sure we'd have had a great season had we done that0 -
Goodluck going bankrupt and being allowed to pay off your bar tab in full because you like the boozer.Cafc43v3r said:
They aren't preferred creditors but they won't take pennies in the pound if the assets are more than their debt. Especially when it's PAYE and NI. As is the case with Derby.Redrobo said:
HMRC used to be preferential creditors, but not any more.Cafc43v3r said:
The law of the land does put HMRC first.ShootersHillGuru said:
Yeah but I think the law of the land needs to be tightened up on this. There should be a list of priority creditors but off the top of my head it should start with HMRC followed by the Police, local authority and any registered charity. After that, in my opinion Krystian Bielik is no more a priority than 50 boxes of steak and kidney pies.golfaddick said:ShootersHillGuru said:
If I’m honest I still don’t see why Arsenal should have any priority for payment over and above local trades people.Chunes said:
I agree........but sadly it's in their rules which is voted on by the league's chairman.ShootersHillGuru said:
If I’m honest I still don’t see why Arsenal should have any priority for payment over and above local trades people.Chunes said:
Would people feel differently if Derby owed Rochdale 800k than if they did Arsenal 8 million. I suspect they would.
I think that most reasonable people would expect that all creditors should be treated equally. It is grossly unfair that one person gets all their money and someone else gets nothing.
And it is unfair, but if you got made bankrupt owning a massive bar tab, would you expect the land lord to let you back after paying 10p in the £1?2 -
But it's not the "oldco" that pay the bill is it? The "newco" have to pay it, in full, to remain in the league.Stu_of_Kunming said:
Goodluck going bankrupt and being allowed to pay off your bar tab in full because you like the boozer.Cafc43v3r said:
They aren't preferred creditors but they won't take pennies in the pound if the assets are more than their debt. Especially when it's PAYE and NI. As is the case with Derby.Redrobo said:
HMRC used to be preferential creditors, but not any more.Cafc43v3r said:
The law of the land does put HMRC first.ShootersHillGuru said:
Yeah but I think the law of the land needs to be tightened up on this. There should be a list of priority creditors but off the top of my head it should start with HMRC followed by the Police, local authority and any registered charity. After that, in my opinion Krystian Bielik is no more a priority than 50 boxes of steak and kidney pies.golfaddick said:ShootersHillGuru said:
If I’m honest I still don’t see why Arsenal should have any priority for payment over and above local trades people.Chunes said:
I agree........but sadly it's in their rules which is voted on by the league's chairman.ShootersHillGuru said:
If I’m honest I still don’t see why Arsenal should have any priority for payment over and above local trades people.Chunes said:
Would people feel differently if Derby owed Rochdale 800k than if they did Arsenal 8 million. I suspect they would.
I think that most reasonable people would expect that all creditors should be treated equally. It is grossly unfair that one person gets all their money and someone else gets nothing.
And it is unfair, but if you got made bankrupt owning a massive bar tab, would you expect the land lord to let you back after paying 10p in the £1?0 -
That would suggest that the payment does not come from the administration?Cafc43v3r said:
But it's not the "oldco" that pay the bill is it? The "newco" have to pay it, in full, to remain in the league.Stu_of_Kunming said:
Goodluck going bankrupt and being allowed to pay off your bar tab in full because you like the boozer.Cafc43v3r said:
They aren't preferred creditors but they won't take pennies in the pound if the assets are more than their debt. Especially when it's PAYE and NI. As is the case with Derby.Redrobo said:
HMRC used to be preferential creditors, but not any more.Cafc43v3r said:
The law of the land does put HMRC first.ShootersHillGuru said:
Yeah but I think the law of the land needs to be tightened up on this. There should be a list of priority creditors but off the top of my head it should start with HMRC followed by the Police, local authority and any registered charity. After that, in my opinion Krystian Bielik is no more a priority than 50 boxes of steak and kidney pies.golfaddick said:ShootersHillGuru said:
If I’m honest I still don’t see why Arsenal should have any priority for payment over and above local trades people.Chunes said:
I agree........but sadly it's in their rules which is voted on by the league's chairman.ShootersHillGuru said:
If I’m honest I still don’t see why Arsenal should have any priority for payment over and above local trades people.Chunes said:
Would people feel differently if Derby owed Rochdale 800k than if they did Arsenal 8 million. I suspect they would.
I think that most reasonable people would expect that all creditors should be treated equally. It is grossly unfair that one person gets all their money and someone else gets nothing.
And it is unfair, but if you got made bankrupt owning a massive bar tab, would you expect the land lord to let you back after paying 10p in the £1?The administrators sell the business and share out the money after taking their whack.
The new owners then have to satisfy the EFL rules to take part in the league, which includes paying out balance of wages to footballers.
That would seem to make sense if it works that way as would be the same as any other administration.
Can I go back in the pub now?0 -
I believe the football creditors can accept the ps in the £ like any other creditors but those debts must be settled, in full, to continue playing in the league, I don't think anyone is bothered who pays it.Redrobo said:
That would suggest that the payment does not come from the administration?Cafc43v3r said:
But it's not the "oldco" that pay the bill is it? The "newco" have to pay it, in full, to remain in the league.Stu_of_Kunming said:
Goodluck going bankrupt and being allowed to pay off your bar tab in full because you like the boozer.Cafc43v3r said:
They aren't preferred creditors but they won't take pennies in the pound if the assets are more than their debt. Especially when it's PAYE and NI. As is the case with Derby.Redrobo said:
HMRC used to be preferential creditors, but not any more.Cafc43v3r said:
The law of the land does put HMRC first.ShootersHillGuru said:
Yeah but I think the law of the land needs to be tightened up on this. There should be a list of priority creditors but off the top of my head it should start with HMRC followed by the Police, local authority and any registered charity. After that, in my opinion Krystian Bielik is no more a priority than 50 boxes of steak and kidney pies.golfaddick said:ShootersHillGuru said:
If I’m honest I still don’t see why Arsenal should have any priority for payment over and above local trades people.Chunes said:
I agree........but sadly it's in their rules which is voted on by the league's chairman.ShootersHillGuru said:
If I’m honest I still don’t see why Arsenal should have any priority for payment over and above local trades people.Chunes said:
Would people feel differently if Derby owed Rochdale 800k than if they did Arsenal 8 million. I suspect they would.
I think that most reasonable people would expect that all creditors should be treated equally. It is grossly unfair that one person gets all their money and someone else gets nothing.
And it is unfair, but if you got made bankrupt owning a massive bar tab, would you expect the land lord to let you back after paying 10p in the £1?The administrators sell the business and share out the money after taking their whack.
The new owners then have to satisfy the EFL rules to take part in the league, which includes paying out balance of wages to footballers.
That would seem to make sense if it works that way as would be the same as any other administration.
Can I go back in the pub now?0 -
No one cares who pays it, as long as it is new money.Cafc43v3r said:
I believe the football creditors can accept the ps in the £ like any other creditors but those debts must be settled, in full, to continue playing in the league, I don't think anyone is bothered who pays it.Redrobo said:
That would suggest that the payment does not come from the administration?Cafc43v3r said:
But it's not the "oldco" that pay the bill is it? The "newco" have to pay it, in full, to remain in the league.Stu_of_Kunming said:
Goodluck going bankrupt and being allowed to pay off your bar tab in full because you like the boozer.Cafc43v3r said:
They aren't preferred creditors but they won't take pennies in the pound if the assets are more than their debt. Especially when it's PAYE and NI. As is the case with Derby.Redrobo said:
HMRC used to be preferential creditors, but not any more.Cafc43v3r said:
The law of the land does put HMRC first.ShootersHillGuru said:
Yeah but I think the law of the land needs to be tightened up on this. There should be a list of priority creditors but off the top of my head it should start with HMRC followed by the Police, local authority and any registered charity. After that, in my opinion Krystian Bielik is no more a priority than 50 boxes of steak and kidney pies.golfaddick said:ShootersHillGuru said:
If I’m honest I still don’t see why Arsenal should have any priority for payment over and above local trades people.Chunes said:
I agree........but sadly it's in their rules which is voted on by the league's chairman.ShootersHillGuru said:
If I’m honest I still don’t see why Arsenal should have any priority for payment over and above local trades people.Chunes said:
Would people feel differently if Derby owed Rochdale 800k than if they did Arsenal 8 million. I suspect they would.
I think that most reasonable people would expect that all creditors should be treated equally. It is grossly unfair that one person gets all their money and someone else gets nothing.
And it is unfair, but if you got made bankrupt owning a massive bar tab, would you expect the land lord to let you back after paying 10p in the £1?The administrators sell the business and share out the money after taking their whack.
The new owners then have to satisfy the EFL rules to take part in the league, which includes paying out balance of wages to footballers.
That would seem to make sense if it works that way as would be the same as any other administration.
Can I go back in the pub now?0 -
Can't imagine Cocu is that impressed.
"Derby also owe £26m owed to HM Revenue and Customs but Phillip Cocu, the manager who sanctioned the Bielik deal before his sacking last November, will not receive the £5m owed in compensation after the club went into administration last week".
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So is their any definition of what is a football debt? Does it cover the players money, but not the manager/coaching staff? On that basis, they could offload Rooney tomorrow and save themselves a lot of cash.Addickted said:Can't imagine Cocu is that impressed.
"Derby also owe £26m owed to HM Revenue and Customs but Phillip Cocu, the manager who sanctioned the Bielik deal before his sacking last November, will not receive the £5m owed in compensation after the club went into administration last week".0 -
This is a useful readSomervilleAddick said:
So is their any definition of what is a football debt? Does it cover the players money, but not the manager/coaching staff? On that basis, they could offload Rooney tomorrow and save themselves a lot of cash.Addickted said:Can't imagine Cocu is that impressed.
"Derby also owe £26m owed to HM Revenue and Customs but Phillip Cocu, the manager who sanctioned the Bielik deal before his sacking last November, will not receive the £5m owed in compensation after the club went into administration last week".
https://www.r3.org.uk/press-policy-and-research/r3-blog/more/28736/page/7/the-special-features-of-football-insolvencies/
This one suggests that the money owed to the ex coaching staff and Richard Keogh aren't automatically footballing debts.
https://www.football365.com/news/derby-county-administration-failure-opinion
I also missed that since 2020 HMRC are a preferred creditor as well.
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Derby were ordered by the EFL’s Player Related Dispute Commission (upheld on appeal to the League Appeals Committee) to pay up the full value of the remainder of his contract – a sum of about £2.3m. Keogh was also found to have been wrongly dismissed by Derby and not to have committed gross misconduct or brought the club into serious disrepute.2
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I lost all respect for Derby as a club after that incident, and the varying ways they treated the players involved.guinnessaddick said:Derby were ordered by the EFL’s Player Related Dispute Commission (upheld on appeal to the League Appeals Committee) to pay up the full value of the remainder of his contract – a sum of about £2.3m. Keogh was also found to have been wrongly dismissed by Derby and not to have committed gross misconduct or brought the club into serious disrepute.7 -
"Mount, the Chelsea midfielder, who spent the 2018-19 season on loan at Derby, was at the hospital when Keogh came round after his MCL operation."
Pretty impressive from a young kid who at the time was back at Chelsea and was only at Derby for 1 season.17 -
Derby County owe £15m to MSD Holdings, it has been confirmed by the US investment group.
The detail is included within MSD's annual financial statements.
MSD has become a significant presence in English football, lending money to a number of Premier League and Championship clubs, including Burnley and Derby.
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Derby really are looking fucked. I can see a winding up looming on this one.0
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As the article says, it's one thing borrowing to effectively get the Premier League money a bit earlier, but something completely different to do it without such funds.0
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It looks increasingly likely. Someone is going to have to pay nearly £50 million for, what is in effect, nothing at all.ShootersHillGuru said:Derby really are looking fucked. I can see a winding up looming on this one.0 -
Their fans on Twitter still seem to be defend the actions of the club. I don't quite get it.0
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Chunes said:Their fans on Twitter still seem to be defend the actions of the club. I don't quite get it.
Always found them a bit like the massives in their attitude to their own club.2 -
And it’s ok they won’t have a club to defend soon0
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One of 12 founding clubs of the football league. 137 year history, semi finalists of the European Cup,FA Cup winners, First Division winners.
Derby are a huge club and yet seem destined to oblivion. Assuming they fail, and I see little other alternative or hope for them; it should send shock waves through footy.
But it won't because they are not PL so they will be a small footnote on a 606 call in where the majority will prefer to discuss how disgusted they are as a Spurs fans that they just drew a game or how upset a Man UTD fan is at Ole.
To think that Derby have been taken to this by a fan of theirs and that the fan has fucked them so hard that they have borrowed against their property and main/only asset.
I worry that Derby may be the biggest so far but will soon be joined by others (look how reliant Boro are on their long term owner and his huge debt pile); or Blackburn or Forest.
For years people have warned the bubble will burst and maybe (outside the PL) Derby are simply the first.
Be careful what you wish for. An AFC Derby will arise and be back in the football league quick enough but will most likely need to find a new stadium first whilst the Yanks turn the existing one into flats.6 -
Derby failing would still send shockwaves through football, not least because it's currently "Wayne Rooney's Derby County" and previously it was "Frank Lampard's Derby County"Athletico Charlton said:One of 12 founding clubs of the football league. 137 year history, semi finalists of the European Cup,FA Cup winners, First Division winners.
Derby are a huge club and yet seem destined to oblivion. Assuming they fail, and I see little other alternative or hope for them; it should send shock waves through footy.
But it won't because they are not PL so they will be a small footnote on a 606 call in where the majority will prefer to discuss how disgusted they are as a Spurs fans that they just drew a game or how upset a Man UTD fan is at Ole.
To think that Derby have been taken to this by a fan of theirs and that the fan has fucked them so hard that they have borrowed against their property and main/only asset.
I worry that Derby may be the biggest so far but will soon be joined by others (look how reliant Boro are on their long term owner and his huge debt pile); or Blackburn or Forest.
For years people have warned the bubble will burst and maybe (outside the PL) Derby are simply the first.
Be careful what you wish for. An AFC Derby will arise and be back in the football league quick enough but will most likely need to find a new stadium first whilst the Yanks turn the existing one into flats.
Fan owners can often screw things up, as they are driven too much by glory and emotion. It was under a fan in Mark Hulyer, that we nearly went out of business in the 80s. Similarly Simon Jordan and Mark Goldberg at Palace both ended up in administration.3 -
Seems that Mike Ashley is interested in buying them.1
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Seriously ?ForeverAddickted said:Seems that Mike Ashley is interested in buying them.0 -
He’s got some black & white scarves to rid of and we don’t use them anymore.Miserableoldgit said:
Seriously ?ForeverAddickted said:Seems that Mike Ashley is interested in buying them.15 -
Football is absolutely hooked on short-termism and it is destroying the game. We are all guilty of it but fans want instant success nowadays and clubs end up going to the wall trying to chase it.Athletico Charlton said:One of 12 founding clubs of the football league. 137 year history, semi finalists of the European Cup,FA Cup winners, First Division winners.
Derby are a huge club and yet seem destined to oblivion. Assuming they fail, and I see little other alternative or hope for them; it should send shock waves through footy.
But it won't because they are not PL so they will be a small footnote on a 606 call in where the majority will prefer to discuss how disgusted they are as a Spurs fans that they just drew a game or how upset a Man UTD fan is at Ole.
To think that Derby have been taken to this by a fan of theirs and that the fan has fucked them so hard that they have borrowed against their property and main/only asset.
I worry that Derby may be the biggest so far but will soon be joined by others (look how reliant Boro are on their long term owner and his huge debt pile); or Blackburn or Forest.
For years people have warned the bubble will burst and maybe (outside the PL) Derby are simply the first.
Be careful what you wish for. An AFC Derby will arise and be back in the football league quick enough but will most likely need to find a new stadium first whilst the Yanks turn the existing one into flats.
The two clubs you mentioned, Boro and Blackburn, have pretty sizeable groups of fans who want their owners out the club. The Boro Chairman especially has done an incredible job at that club however now he is trying to run it more sustainably as opposed to chucking money at it he is accused of lacking ambition. Whilst I know the Blackburn Rovers owners made some terrible mistakes early on in their ownership I look at them now and think mid table in the championship for the last few aeasons is probably not a bad return.
I have the upmost sympathy with Southend fans given how quickly they have fallen down the leagues, however watching all these protests against their owner does get me thinking what would actually happen if he did as they asked and walked away tomorrow? They'd be in administration in weeks if not days. I don't see many people lining up to own Southend United FC, that is no disrespect to the club but it has a small fan base, is in the National League and has a stadium which is falling apart and if the owner is to be believed costs 400k a year in reactive maintenance just to scrape a safety certificate.
I read an interview with the Southend Chairman this week who said he wasn't going to walk away unless someone made him an offer which allowed him to recoup his losses which he estimates is £20 million since he took over in 2000. Fans are up in arms about that but who in their right mind would walk away from a business that they are owed £20 million from?
Football must be the only industry where fan's can protest at an owner and demand they leave a club whilst also at the same time wanting them to walk away and wipe off all their debts whilst there at it. I have no doubt there owner has made some pretty big mistakes in recent years but why on earth should he walk away from something he is owed such huge sums from and something he continues to pump money into? Fans may be unhappy but if the owner complies with their request to leave I'd be surprised if they had a club to support at all by the end of the season.
I think in recent years clubs and fans have been spoiled because no matter what there has always been a queue of people desperate to own a football team, which means no matter how badly a club has been run or how much debt there in there has always been someone brave or foolish (or a mixture of both) to take over. I think we are now getting in a situation where that queue of people is dwindling quite rapidly.6 -
Fantastic post.Notts_Addick said:
Football is absolutely hooked on short-termism and it is destroying the game. We are all guilty of it but fans want instant success nowadays and clubs end up going to the wall trying to chase it.Athletico Charlton said:One of 12 founding clubs of the football league. 137 year history, semi finalists of the European Cup,FA Cup winners, First Division winners.
Derby are a huge club and yet seem destined to oblivion. Assuming they fail, and I see little other alternative or hope for them; it should send shock waves through footy.
But it won't because they are not PL so they will be a small footnote on a 606 call in where the majority will prefer to discuss how disgusted they are as a Spurs fans that they just drew a game or how upset a Man UTD fan is at Ole.
To think that Derby have been taken to this by a fan of theirs and that the fan has fucked them so hard that they have borrowed against their property and main/only asset.
I worry that Derby may be the biggest so far but will soon be joined by others (look how reliant Boro are on their long term owner and his huge debt pile); or Blackburn or Forest.
For years people have warned the bubble will burst and maybe (outside the PL) Derby are simply the first.
Be careful what you wish for. An AFC Derby will arise and be back in the football league quick enough but will most likely need to find a new stadium first whilst the Yanks turn the existing one into flats.
The two clubs you mentioned, Boro and Blackburn, have pretty sizeable groups of fans who want their owners out the club. The Boro Chairman especially has done an incredible job at that club however now he is trying to run it more sustainably as opposed to chucking money at it he is accused of lacking ambition. Whilst I know the Blackburn Rovers owners made some terrible mistakes early on in their ownership I look at them now and think mid table in the championship for the last few aeasons is probably not a bad return.
I have the upmost sympathy with Southend fans given how quickly they have fallen down the leagues, however watching all these protests against their owner does get me thinking what would actually happen if he did as they asked and walked away tomorrow? They'd be in administration in weeks if not days. I don't see many people lining up to own Southend United FC, that is no disrespect to the club but it has a small fan base, is in the National League and has a stadium which is falling apart and if the owner is to be believed costs 400k a year in reactive maintenance just to scrape a safety certificate.
I read an interview with the Southend Chairman this week who said he wasn't going to walk away unless someone made him an offer which allowed him to recoup his losses which he estimates is £20 million since he took over in 2000. Fans are up in arms about that but who in their right mind would walk away from a business that they are owed £20 million from?
Football must be the only industry where fan's can protest at an owner and demand they leave a club whilst also at the same time wanting them to walk away and wipe off all their debts whilst there at it. I have no doubt there owner has made some pretty big mistakes in recent years but why on earth should he walk away from something he is owed such huge sums from and something he continues to pump money into? Fans may be unhappy but if the owner complies with their request to leave I'd be surprised if they had a club to support at all by the end of the season.
I think in recent years clubs and fans have been spoiled because no matter what there has always been a queue of people desperate to own a football team, which means no matter how badly a club has been run or how much debt there in there has always been someone brave or foolish (or a mixture of both) to take over. I think we are now getting in a situation where that queue of people is dwindling quite rapidly.
There are so many problems with football but perhaps the biggest is the fact that so many fans are incredibly stupid, this is exacerbated by the fact that social media and radio phone-ins give these moronic imbeciles a platform for their vacuous dumbness.
The reality is that, outside the Premier League, the vast majority of clubs are losing money, big money - why are they losing that money?
Answer: Players wages and - to a lesser extent - transfer fees.
Why are they spending money they can't afford? Well, that's easy, they are spending money to meet the demands of the fans to "show some ambition" and that, in turn, simply pushes wages and fees even higher.
The truth is that the average fan has absolutely no idea about the economics of football, quite literally none, they probably think that their 500 quid season ticket is enough to have the club awash with cash for the season ahead, the truth is that won't even cover your best players wage for his drive to the training ground.
Outside the PL broadcast revenue for the EFL is an absolute pittance and gate fees, once the mainstay of a clubs income, cannot possibly keep up with the rising cost of wages and transfer fees.
Steve Gibson has, quite literally, poured hundreds of millions of pounds into Boro for the last thirty years and yet these absolutely mentally retarded morons are abusing the guy and asking him to tip more cash into the club! Seriously!
Blackburn? Blackburn? They are exactly where a modest Lancashire club should be, competing in the Championship and doing very nicely indeed, but, no, that's not good enough for Disgusted of Darwen who thinks they should be in the top ten of the Premier League.
The only reason Blackburn prospered between 1991-2010 was because a billionaire owner was prepared to keep tipping his cash into the club, once he passed away his family couldn't get out of the joint fast enough!13 -
I see that the Administrators have appealed the 12 point deduction stating that an exception should be made due to impact from Covid.
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Didnt Wigan try that line?SuedeAdidas said:I see that the Administrators have appealed the 12 point deduction stating that an exception should be made due to impact from Covid.0
