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Post Match Thread: Charlton Athletic v Rochdale | Tues 12 January 2021

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  • PaddyP17 said:
    mendonca said:
    Bit of irony....we would not have conceded that free kick had Gilbey JUMPED out the way of making a reckless tackle. 
    Oh, that reminds me.

    What the hell was that wall for the free kick? Amos clearly saw who'd be taking it (big number 9), how he lined up (straight on), and then set up a wall to invite the guy to absolutely leather it into the top corner, with a MASSIVE gap where neither he nor the wall was providing cover.

    That was an atrocious bit of goalkeeping. If there had been a wall in the way, the trajectory meant it would have hit it, and if the wall was in the standard position (off-centre with the keeper to the other side), it would have forced a curled effort, which is harder to get right.

    That said, good strike, and Amos has been generally pretty good this year, but... this was rubbish.
    Watch it again. Gunter half turns his back and shrinks away from the ball as it comes towards him. Should have taken the hit and blocked it. Redeemed himself in the second half at least.
  • edited January 2021
    I'd just like to also say I'm really happy that schwarz looks up to the challenge. His movement off the ball today was very good. 
  • Woke upthis monring, checked the phone and read the score as 0-0 with my tired eyes. Upon managing to focus better I saw it was 4-4. I checked the lineups. They must have the formation wrong, I though, seeing a back five including Paul Smyth. It wasn't until reading this thread that I realised they weren't wrong.

    Bowyer's not helping himself at the moment in continuing to unnecessarily use players in wrong, unfamiliar positions. It's not the time for experimentation, it's time for consolidation or back to basics as Curbs would call it. At least he admitted the error this time.

    But he hasn't admitted the error of playing Gilbey game after game when he's clearly off-form.
  • RobRob
    edited January 2021
    PWR and then I'll go back and read the thread. Definitely a game of 2 halves. For the whole game we were on the front foot, which I liked. But the first half was atrocious because of woeful defending. The worst I can remember seeing from a Charlton team. Our central midfield and defence was like a sieve and I must admit at HT I couldn't see how Bowyer was going to change it. But whatever he did it worked and we looked a different team in the 2nd. If only we had started out like that.
    In the first half it honestly looked as if we had a team of players who were past it and just trying to eke out a living until they retired. Gunter, Pearce and Gilbey in particular were really bad. Slow and ponderous. Up front we were solid enough but whatever we would have done lowly Rochdale would have doubled it. Going forward we made them look like world beaters. No bite in the tackle. No one in central midfield to challenge and close them down (their 2nd goal is a great example). We looked woeful and without a clue of how to fix it. And my question here is, why did we have to wait until HT?! But we had to and we were 4-2 down.
    And in the second half we were so much better. Gilbey and Smyth replaced by Morgan and Schwartz. But that was it but we were so much better, particularly in midfield and at the back. What a difference?! What else did Bowyer do to change things? So now, every time we went forward we looked like scoring. We scored 2 more but in all honesty we could have scored 4. Our play was slick. Some of our passing was superb but let's not go overboard. We were playing Rochdale, a team 20th in the table.
    So, a 4-4 draw but, in the end, it felt like a victory. And, for me, the good feeling came from the 2nd half display. Especially from the partnership between Chuks and Schwartz. I must admit I didn't know what to expect from Ronnie but I was impressed. I thought he looked really sharp and he took his goal well. And, I feel he and Chuks could be the perfect foil for each other. Chuks to do the grafting and Ronnie to feed off it. I also thought Millar was impressive going forward and in general in the 2nd half all the team played so much better. Jason looked ok but his sending off was typical Jason now. He was so slow he was a mile late in that challenge.
    So, a disappointing result but there were some shoots of hope there. Chuks played most of the game and was an easy MOM, and Schwartz might just be the striker we need. Derek Hales mark II.     
     
  • Did i read correctly that Schwartz injured himself walking off the pitch?!

    Also a bit concerned at what our defence is going to look like on Saturday. Although the way he's been playing Pearce is no great loss. I wouldn't mind seeing Barker back in there, keep hearing that he's still raw and not ready but he did well at the start of the season.
  • mendonca said:
    I wonder if we'll play 3 at the back with Gunter-Osh-Purrington.
    I thought Purrington looked really solid in a back 3 when we played him there earlier in the season. 
  • Did i read correctly that Schwartz injured himself walking off the pitch?!

    Also a bit concerned at what our defence is going to look like on Saturday. Although the way he's been playing Pearce is no great loss. I wouldn't mind seeing Barker back in there, keep hearing that he's still raw and not ready but he did well at the start of the season.
    He went down hard chasing a ball on the side-line in the final act of the game. You could hear the impact and he looked in pain holding his back. Hope he’s ok.
  • mendonca said:
    does anyone else think that maatsen needs a little rest from the first team
    Might be a clause in contract. Chelsea and Liverpool generally state that their players must start each game while on loan.
    Chelsea can’t have it both ways, regarding Gallagher playing too many games.
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  • Cafc43v3r said:
    If he doesn't start the ten eligible players that started the second half on Saturday he needs to give his head, another, wobble. 

    If he puts Gunter at CB and brings Matthews in or plays Barker or Mingi I don't really mind. 

    He can then bring Washington, Bogle, Smyth or who ever on for Aneke, Schwartz and Williams after an hour or so. 

    Then slowly bring Pratley, Watson, Famewo, Shinnie etc back into the team.

    That should be the basis of the 1st eleven now until someone else does something to deserve to start. 
    Cracking opening paragraph.
  • edited January 2021
    I've read "We're still in the play-offs" a lot over the past week or so but I've just looked at the table and Accrington have 4 games in hand on us, Portsmouth have 2, Peterbourough have 2, Doncaster have 3... Bit of a false position really isn't it. Even teams below us have games in hand.

    If we don't start winning soon, this table is going to look a lot different. Let's hope we've turned the corner.
  • Time for mattsen to be rested for purrington. Get Gunter out for Matthew’s 
    hopefully everyone has seen gilbey isn’t good enough and how we desperately need pratley or watson at cdm. 
    Good to see anneke get through 90 mins and 2 goals should have had his Hat trick.good to see Ronnie score he nearly got on end of 3 chances to score in his first five minutes if his match sharpness was better or pass to him was better looks like he knows to be in right place fight time. 
    Don’t really think team is really good enough to go up this season maybe make play offs. But the squad was assembled last minute in hurry and with salary cap. Think we need to be what we have herd to much these last few years but be patient we have a owner who seems to want to take us places. 
    But typical Charlton when we get something promising we get another wall put in front of us COYR 
  • Chunes said:
    I've read "We're still in the play-offs" a lot over the past week or so but I've just looked at the table and Accrington have 4 games in hand on us, Portsmouth have 2, Peterbourough have 2, Doncaster have 3... Bit of a false position really isn't it. Even teams below us have games in hand.

    If we don't start winning soon, this table is going to look a lot different. Let's hope we've turned the corner.
    Ironically though, we were in the same position with games in hand on some of them 3/4 games ago. 
  • Southbank said:
    So , next Saturday, Inniss, Famewo, Pratley, Watson, Pearce, Maddison, Doughty, Shinnie all out. 6 of them at least would be in our first team, so until these injuries are fixed or alternatives signed, hard to see us not struggling further.
    Smyth playing rwb was a wrong call  but the squad weakness is hard to overcome.
    Team this Sat:
    Amos
    Matthews, Gunter, Oshilaja, Maatsen
    Millar JFC, Morgan, Williams
    Aneke, Washington
    Subs MB, Purrington, Barker, Schwarz, Shinnie/Gilbey, Smyth, Bogle
    Shinnie, Inniss and Famewo can't return soon enough. Badly missed. 
  • I’ve only seen their free kick once, but it goes in keepers side? Not having a go at Amos, but it seemed saveable 
  • Woke up still struggling to see that this may be the catalyst in turning it round.  I’m also struggling to see how we played some ‘great’ football in the second half.  I think that’s overstating it a tad.  We certainly showed character, but we had no choice to go on the offensive based on being 2 behind and the terrible run we’ve been on.

    I also think we have to take into consideration how equally dodgy Rochdale are and have been at the back.  Someone pointed out their run of results earlier, they’ve conceded a fair few.  We’ve had a series of very poor results over the last 11 games, and I think our standards have dropped and we’re giving last night’s result a little too much credit given that it was a fairly entertaining game with goals in.  I’m not sure too many other teams will be quite so defensively lax as Rochdale were when defending a lead.   

    I agree that when we get Inniss and Famewo back I will have a bit more confidence, but I still don’t see which midfield line up will suddenly be the one to settle and take us up the table.  I don’t think Bowyer has an idea of an identity, shape or first XI at the moment and I need to see a lot more before I think we can get out of this blip 
  • Rothko said:
    I’ve only seen their free kick once, but it goes in keepers side? Not having a go at Amos, but it seemed saveable 
    definitely should've done better, had a clear view of it
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  • Enjoyed the match
    Players obviously still playing for Bowyer
    Still believe in this team - and the manager (even if he does make mistakes)

    Innis, Famewo, Pratley and Watson missing = we are wide open

    V concerned about Schwartz doing his back in at the end. Looked nasty. 

    We are going up.

    COYR!
  • I’ve been saying Bowyer probably has to go because it was looking increasingly likely he had lost the dressing room. Well at least the second half provided some fight. He does deserve some time on the condition the players are going to battle for him.

    I want to give him time but let’s not pretend that three goals last night were at least partly because of our formation/selection. Putting Smyth at RWB and Millar upfront were both poor decisions. Respect for holding his hands up, but we conceded 4 at home to Rochdale. If we do the basics we have a chance of winning every game, I hope we do that for the rest of January. 

    I thought Deji, JFC and Schwartz all had excellent games, Aneke was absolutely outstanding. Gunter was poor and offered Smyth little protection. Maatsen looks a different player to when I first came in, hopefully the return of Famewo changes that. Gilbey needs to be dropped, he’s just not doing it. 
  • Rothko said:
    I’ve only seen their free kick once, but it goes in keepers side? Not having a go at Amos, but it seemed saveable 
    definitely should've done better, had a clear view of it
    I would be questioning why Amos is letting in all these goals, never having a save to make and yet conceding every week. He didn’t get anything (hand or foot) on any of their  4 goals last night.
  • RedChaser said:
    I think it buys Bowyer some time for now at least. The shape first half was all wrong, Deji looked uncomfortable on the left side of a back three and was far too high up the pitch at certain points. That along with a couple of other players pushing too high up left us very open at the back. Smyth at right wing back was just crazy as well.

    Much better second half though once we seemed to go back to basics. Aneke was superb, Millar was impressive as well and got us up the pitch and Ronnie took his goal very well. 

    Fingers crossed we can stop the chopping and changing of players and formations now and find a settled side. 


    It was Gunter on the left side of the back three. Oshilaja was central and, as far as I could see, played really well. Their first goal came from Pearce chasing their CF too far up the pitch and leaving us even more out of shape than we were with that line-up!
    Eh? No chance, Deji was definitely on the left and Gunter on the right. That choice was bad enough even without Smyth at RWB. 
    Definitely and what was worrying about that is Pearce’s lack of pace compared to Oshilaja who kept having to check back onto his right foot to pass the ball. I suppose it was a case of who LB trusted in the centre of the three out of those two. Oshilaja had a good game overall and looked more comfortable 2nd half in a four.
    Agreed. Pearce would have been the obvious choice at LCB but as you say his lack of pace prompted Bowyer to put Deji to the left. He's played pretty well the last couple of games, showing it was poor by Bowyer to opt for Pratley. Glad he's getting his chance now and I hope him and Famewo can forge a decent partnership. 
  • edited January 2021
    Posting without reading the other comments.

    Apart from the free kick, our defence was non-existent for the other three goals. Poor defending overall. Not only Smyth, but Pearce and especially Gilbey too. Smyth was played out of position so can't blame him. I really think Gunter should have helped him out and protect him a lot more. As an experienced player he let him down. Bottom line for me is we concede four at home against a team in the relegation zone and that is unacceptable. 

    Our main tactic when we have possession seems to play the long ball to Aneke and play off him. Chucks was amazing yesterday, but this will not work every week and will take its toll on him and we all know his fitness is still an issue. 

    Positives for me besides Aneke are the way the team responded in the second half, Schwartz who played really well when he came on and JFC in the middle of the park. Also, Jonny on the left or right wing or side of a flat midfield four suits our team better. He is able to cut inside easily and provide room for the overlapping wing backs. 

    Curious about how we will line up this Saturday without Pearce. He had been poor for the past two games, but we don't really have an alternative. Center back pairing Oshilaja and Gunter does not fill me with confidence for two tough games coming up.
  • As expected Bowyer getting stick,but he has been poxed every way he turns.
    1)Pratley or Watson plays we do not let those goals in,both out
    2)Both first choice cb out
    3)Shinnie out
    4)And now pearce out next game

    I will judge him when he has a full squad to pick from,lets be fair tonight,those Rochdale strikes where pretty special and unusual at this level.
    We've won one game in eight and are shipping goals - a decent manager deals with injuries. 
    So is Klopp a bad manager`,Liverpool lose their cbs and others and all of a sudden they cannot win a raffle.
    Not talking about Klopp. We're in L1 and LB has to manage injuries better than he does - if you think the run of results/performances are acceptable then you obviously have very low expectations. 
    You said a decent manager deals with injuries,Klopp is a decent manager and has struggled with Liverpools injuries.Of course I dont like the recent results,but I stand by what I said,judge Bowyer when he has a fit squad.

    So if he doesn't have a fit squad we can just write those games off and excuse the performances however bad they are. 
    Did I say that,you stated that good managers over came injury problems,to which I responded that Klopp has got a lot of problems at Liverpool,now resulting in them no longer being top,is he now not a good manager because of this.
    The Liverpool situation is almost identical to our own,they lose their top 3 cbs,and have to play their best holding midfielder in defence  thereby weakening their midfield.Same as us ,we lose Pratley in midfield we become less effective at the back without the protection he gives us.Bowyer is doing his best to juggle the squad,not always to our satisfaction  but not having a settled defensive unit,runs through the team.Now it has got even worse,No Pearce for saturday,and still no Pratley.He is going to be forced to play with one regular cb who has played only the  last two games ,and will now be called upon to organise our defense.Bowyer had the same last year,working for crooks,doing ok until our entire midfield got hurt then playing kids,it got worse,Gallagher got called back,transfer embargo,and then our main striker gets hurt and later downs tools,even then only afreak win by by Barnsley got us relegated.Enough from me,on this as I said I will judge when he has a full squad.
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