When you work on a game plan all week, then substitute 4 players at half-time, it really looks like you don't know what you doing. That you got it wrong in the first place and now you're desperate. Can't see any other way of looking at it.
When you work on a game plan all week, then substitute 4 players at half-time, it really looks like you don't know what you doing. That you got it wrong in the first place and now you're desperate. Can't see any other way of looking at it.
We have made at least one substitution at half time in a lot of games in the last 3 months. Multiple times we have changed 2,3 or 4 players. That says a lot.
This isn't Bowyer's first season either and we haven't heard stories about his behaviour in previous years.
Something has clearly happened this year that has made Bowyer struggle. Maybe it's the pressure of performing?
We never saw the press-conference 2021 Bowyer in previous years. Something has gone wrong somewhere.
Could have been last year... Solly & Bonne as examples.
Is Bonne a good example? Bowyer criticised him - and let's be clear, criticism of players shouldn't go in the same file that bullying goes in - in order to try and drive complacency out of his game. Bonne himself admitted that it spurred him on to do better and show that he could score goals, and it got him a £2m transfer in the summer. He will be earning more money at QPR so he'll see that as a successful move. He scored 11 Championship goals for us in his first season having been a non-league striker before that, but he has 3 goals for QPR this season. I'd say Bowyer knew a thing or two about how to get the best out of him.
This is what Bonne actually said:
“He [Bowyer] had his methods and in a wayit worked. In the moment when he is screaming and shouting I thought ‘he hates me and it must be something personal’.
This isn't Bowyer's first season either and we haven't heard stories about his behaviour in previous years.
Something has clearly happened this year that has made Bowyer struggle. Maybe it's the pressure of performing?
We never saw the press-conference 2021 Bowyer in previous years. Something has gone wrong somewhere.
Could have been last year... Solly & Bonne as examples.
Is Bonne a good example? Bowyer criticised him - and let's be clear, criticism of players shouldn't go in the same file that bullying goes in - in order to try and drive complacency out of his game. Bonne himself admitted that it spurred him on to do better and show that he could score goals, and it got him a £2m transfer in the summer. He will be earning more money at QPR so he'll see that as a successful move. He scored 11 Championship goals for us in his first season having been a non-league striker before that, but he has 3 goals for QPR this season. I'd say Bowyer knew a thing or two about how to get the best out of him.
This is what Bonne actually said:
“He [Bowyer] had his methods and in a wayit worked. In the moment when he is screaming and shouting I thought ‘he hates me and it must be something personal’.
Not exactly a glowing indictment and shows LB has been employing this borderline OTT tactic for quite a while...
Taking out the emotive elements of this debate, people can blame Bowyer and people can blame the players. But surely, ultimately it is a manager's job to get the best out of their team. It can never be the team's job to get the best out of a manager or it would be pointless appointing one.
If Bowyer had justifications in his approach to the players, does it still make it right if it doesn't make the team perform on the pitch? Isn't that what he is there to do?
This isn't Bowyer's first season either and we haven't heard stories about his behaviour in previous years.
Something has clearly happened this year that has made Bowyer struggle. Maybe it's the pressure of performing?
We never saw the press-conference 2021 Bowyer in previous years. Something has gone wrong somewhere.
Could have been last year... Solly & Bonne as examples.
Is Bonne a good example? Bowyer criticised him - and let's be clear, criticism of players shouldn't go in the same file that bullying goes in - in order to try and drive complacency out of his game. Bonne himself admitted that it spurred him on to do better and show that he could score goals, and it got him a £2m transfer in the summer. He will be earning more money at QPR so he'll see that as a successful move. He scored 11 Championship goals for us in his first season having been a non-league striker before that, but he has 3 goals for QPR this season. I'd say Bowyer knew a thing or two about how to get the best out of him.
This is what Bonne actually said:
“He [Bowyer] had his methods and in a wayit worked. In the moment when he is screaming and shouting I thought ‘he hates me and it must be something personal’.
It's actually incredibly unfair to just cherry-pick a quote from an interview without the context around it. That's why this thread has got so horrifically over the top, because of things like this. This was an interview were Bonne was acknowledging how much he'd improved at Charlton. The full quote is:
“He gave me a rifling after the Millwall game and I went on and scored three times,” said Bonne.
“I’ll be my own critic.
“I should’ve scored more goals – that’s what kills me. I got 11 and I
could’ve finished on 15. But if I had taken all of them then I’d be in
the Premier League. That’s why I’m not the finished article.
“He [Bowyer] had his methods and in a way it worked. In the moment
when he is screaming and shouting I thought ‘he hates me and it must be
something personal’.
“But he rang me up when I signed for QPR and we had a good chat – he
made it clear it was only to improve me. His words were ‘it’s some
turnaround’.”
It's very funny that you highlighted a lot of sections of the snippet you quoted (only the snippet, because any more adds context), but you didn't highlight 'in the moment', which is the most important bit. That whole section is Bonne acknowledging that as it happens Bowyer's methods might not have been pleasant, but he came to understand them and they worked on him. You cut off the second paragraph, which is essential to the point he's making, which is that it's harsh but it isn't personal, it's with the player's improvement in mind. I don't particularly like that method myself, but Bonne objectively improved at Charlton, and he's regressed since leaving. Can we stop making Bowyer out to be some kind of monster? He's not doing a good job at the moment but bloody hell.
‘Supposition dressed up as fact’ should be the title of this thread. Some wild leaps of faith here from people who have way too much time on their hands.
I get some want Bowyer sacked pronto.
The witch hunt is reaching mouth-frothing levels though.
Now getting to the stage that there are more of these posts than actual 'mouth-frothing' ones.
This isn't Bowyer's first season either and we haven't heard stories about his behaviour in previous years.
Something has clearly happened this year that has made Bowyer struggle. Maybe it's the pressure of performing?
We never saw the press-conference 2021 Bowyer in previous years. Something has gone wrong somewhere.
Could have been last year... Solly & Bonne as examples.
Is Bonne a good example? Bowyer criticised him - and let's be clear, criticism of players shouldn't go in the same file that bullying goes in - in order to try and drive complacency out of his game. Bonne himself admitted that it spurred him on to do better and show that he could score goals, and it got him a £2m transfer in the summer. He will be earning more money at QPR so he'll see that as a successful move. He scored 11 Championship goals for us in his first season having been a non-league striker before that, but he has 3 goals for QPR this season. I'd say Bowyer knew a thing or two about how to get the best out of him.
This is what Bonne actually said:
“He [Bowyer] had his methods and in a wayit worked. In the moment when he is screaming and shouting I thought ‘he hates me and it must be something personal’.
It's actually incredibly unfair to just cherry-pick a quote from an interview without the context around it. That's why this thread has got so horrifically over the top, because of things like this. This was an interview were Bonne was acknowledging how much he'd improved at Charlton. The full quote is:
“He gave me a rifling after the Millwall game and I went on and scored three times,” said Bonne.
“I’ll be my own critic.
“I should’ve scored more goals – that’s what kills me. I got 11 and I
could’ve finished on 15. But if I had taken all of them then I’d be in
the Premier League. That’s why I’m not the finished article.
“He [Bowyer] had his methods and in a way it worked. In the moment
when he is screaming and shouting I thought ‘he hates me and it must be
something personal’.
“But he rang me up when I signed for QPR and we had a good chat – he
made it clear it was only to improve me. His words were ‘it’s some
turnaround’.”
It's very funny that you highlighted a lot of sections of the snippet you quoted (only the snippet, because any more adds context), but you didn't highlight 'in the moment', which is the most important bit. That whole section is Bonne acknowledging that as it happens Bowyer's methods might not have been pleasant, but he came to understand them and they worked on him. You cut off the second paragraph, which is essential to the point he's making, which is that it's harsh but it isn't personal, it's with the player's improvement in mind. I don't particularly like that method myself, but Bonne objectively improved at Charlton, and he's regressed since leaving. Can we stop making Bowyer out to be some kind of monster? He's not doing a good job at the moment but bloody hell.
As Bonne said. He is his own critic. The "screaming and shouting" is something that LB does as a matter of course, If you think that works on every player then that's entirely up to you. But please bear in mind that LB only told Bonne after he left why he was doing it. Until that point Bonne was under the impression that he had it in for him.
What about calling out players in public? Do you think that that's OK too?
When you work on a game plan all week, then substitute 4 players at half-time, it really looks like you don't know what you doing. That you got it wrong in the first place and now you're desperate. Can't see any other way of looking at it.
Ort perhaps its says you worked on a game plan all week, which the players then failed to follow so you had to make multiple changes to try and get 11 on who will do what is asked of them. More than one way to slice all of of this.
Lose tonight and I can’t see any way that Sandgaard can really keep Bowyer. That being said, I hope we win and it’s the start of a resurgence - seems unlikely however.
I genuinely thought the game was tomorrow! I wish I hadn’t read this, now I’ll have to watch it.
This isn't Bowyer's first season either and we haven't heard stories about his behaviour in previous years.
Something has clearly happened this year that has made Bowyer struggle. Maybe it's the pressure of performing?
We never saw the press-conference 2021 Bowyer in previous years. Something has gone wrong somewhere.
Could have been last year... Solly & Bonne as examples.
Is Bonne a good example? Bowyer criticised him - and let's be clear, criticism of players shouldn't go in the same file that bullying goes in - in order to try and drive complacency out of his game. Bonne himself admitted that it spurred him on to do better and show that he could score goals, and it got him a £2m transfer in the summer. He will be earning more money at QPR so he'll see that as a successful move. He scored 11 Championship goals for us in his first season having been a non-league striker before that, but he has 3 goals for QPR this season. I'd say Bowyer knew a thing or two about how to get the best out of him.
This is what Bonne actually said:
“He [Bowyer] had his methods and in a wayit worked. In the moment when he is screaming and shouting I thought ‘he hates me and it must be something personal’.
It's actually incredibly unfair to just cherry-pick a quote from an interview without the context around it. That's why this thread has got so horrifically over the top, because of things like this. This was an interview were Bonne was acknowledging how much he'd improved at Charlton. The full quote is:
“He gave me a rifling after the Millwall game and I went on and scored three times,” said Bonne.
“I’ll be my own critic.
“I should’ve scored more goals – that’s what kills me. I got 11 and I
could’ve finished on 15. But if I had taken all of them then I’d be in
the Premier League. That’s why I’m not the finished article.
“He [Bowyer] had his methods and in a way it worked. In the moment
when he is screaming and shouting I thought ‘he hates me and it must be
something personal’.
“But he rang me up when I signed for QPR and we had a good chat – he
made it clear it was only to improve me. His words were ‘it’s some
turnaround’.”
It's very funny that you highlighted a lot of sections of the snippet you quoted (only the snippet, because any more adds context), but you didn't highlight 'in the moment', which is the most important bit. That whole section is Bonne acknowledging that as it happens Bowyer's methods might not have been pleasant, but he came to understand them and they worked on him. You cut off the second paragraph, which is essential to the point he's making, which is that it's harsh but it isn't personal, it's with the player's improvement in mind. I don't particularly like that method myself, but Bonne objectively improved at Charlton, and he's regressed since leaving. Can we stop making Bowyer out to be some kind of monster? He's not doing a good job at the moment but bloody hell.
As Bonne said. He is his own critic. The "screaming and shouting" is something that LB does as a matter of course, If you think that works on every player then that's entirely up to you.
What about calling out players in public? Do you think that that's OK too?
You're arguing with yourself here, it's definitely not to do with anything I've said. I literally said in my above post 'I don't particularly like that method myself'. I also haven't said anything about it working on every player, Dazzler suggested Bonne as an example of problematic Bowyer behavior and I pointed at that Bonne might not be a good example as he is someone it obviously worked on, before you came in to misrepresent his views by chopping up an interview with him. I think you've got confused.
I remember after that takeover last year we all spoke so joyfully about “won’t it be great to just talk about football again”
Yet on this thread it’s like a really crap US soap Opera, only the plot is less believable.
You’d think Bows had committed mass genocide when you read this.
Maybe us fans should calm down a little and discuss the football and the actual facts rather than gossip and rumours.
i’ll be swerving this forum until it’s all over.
Okay. 5 wins in 21 with a squad capable of playoff level.
We need someone new.
Much better at least it's football related and based on facts.
I just saw a post suggesting he might have been bullying Solly & Bonne last year... it's just total gossip and bollocks to push a narrative.
If Bow's goes it's because his management isn't good enough not because of this salary or because he's bullied Johnny... I'm guessing tomorrows rumour will be he's banging all the wives
This isn't Bowyer's first season either and we haven't heard stories about his behaviour in previous years.
Something has clearly happened this year that has made Bowyer struggle. Maybe it's the pressure of performing?
We never saw the press-conference 2021 Bowyer in previous years. Something has gone wrong somewhere.
Could have been last year... Solly & Bonne as examples.
Is Bonne a good example? Bowyer criticised him - and let's be clear, criticism of players shouldn't go in the same file that bullying goes in - in order to try and drive complacency out of his game. Bonne himself admitted that it spurred him on to do better and show that he could score goals, and it got him a £2m transfer in the summer. He will be earning more money at QPR so he'll see that as a successful move. He scored 11 Championship goals for us in his first season having been a non-league striker before that, but he has 3 goals for QPR this season. I'd say Bowyer knew a thing or two about how to get the best out of him.
This is what Bonne actually said:
“He [Bowyer] had his methods and in a wayit worked. In the moment when he is screaming and shouting I thought ‘he hates me and it must be something personal’.
It's actually incredibly unfair to just cherry-pick a quote from an interview without the context around it. That's why this thread has got so horrifically over the top, because of things like this. This was an interview were Bonne was acknowledging how much he'd improved at Charlton. The full quote is:
“He gave me a rifling after the Millwall game and I went on and scored three times,” said Bonne.
“I’ll be my own critic.
“I should’ve scored more goals – that’s what kills me. I got 11 and I
could’ve finished on 15. But if I had taken all of them then I’d be in
the Premier League. That’s why I’m not the finished article.
“He [Bowyer] had his methods and in a way it worked. In the moment
when he is screaming and shouting I thought ‘he hates me and it must be
something personal’.
“But he rang me up when I signed for QPR and we had a good chat – he
made it clear it was only to improve me. His words were ‘it’s some
turnaround’.”
It's very funny that you highlighted a lot of sections of the snippet you quoted (only the snippet, because any more adds context), but you didn't highlight 'in the moment', which is the most important bit. That whole section is Bonne acknowledging that as it happens Bowyer's methods might not have been pleasant, but he came to understand them and they worked on him. You cut off the second paragraph, which is essential to the point he's making, which is that it's harsh but it isn't personal, it's with the player's improvement in mind. I don't particularly like that method myself, but Bonne objectively improved at Charlton, and he's regressed since leaving. Can we stop making Bowyer out to be some kind of monster? He's not doing a good job at the moment but bloody hell.
As Bonne said. He is his own critic. The "screaming and shouting" is something that LB does as a matter of course, If you think that works on every player then that's entirely up to you.
What about calling out players in public? Do you think that that's OK too?
You're arguing with yourself here, it's definitely not to do with anything I've said. I literally said in my above post 'I don't particularly like that method myself'. I also haven't said anything about it working on every player, Dazzler suggested Bonne as an example of problematic Bowyer behavior and I pointed at that Bonne might not be a good example as he is someone it obviously worked on, before you came in to misrepresent his views by chopping up an interview with him. I think you've got confused.
It was only after Bonne left that LB told him why he did it. He didn't pull him to one side and say that while he was with us. He left it 'til he was gone and then spoke to him on the phone. He then explained that it wasn't personal but it is the perception of what LB is doing is causing the harm, It doesn't matter whether LB thinks it isn't personal one little bit.
But let's say Bonne is the success story. I really honestly can't say that those methods be it "screaming and shouting" or publicly rebuking the player has improved a single one of them this season. And we've used 32 of them. Most have visibly gone backwards.
When you work on a game plan all week, then substitute 4 players at half-time, it really looks like you don't know what you doing. That you got it wrong in the first place and now you're desperate. Can't see any other way of looking at it.
Ort perhaps its says you worked on a game plan all week, which the players then failed to follow so you had to make multiple changes to try and get 11 on who will do what is asked of them. More than one way to slice all of of this.
If a week of training hasn't come up with a plan 11 professional players understand it was either a terrible plan or you haven't explained it very well.
Or you chose the wrong players for that plan. It's still not a good look.
When you work on a game plan all week, then substitute 4 players at half-time, it really looks like you don't know what you doing. That you got it wrong in the first place and now you're desperate. Can't see any other way of looking at it.
Ort perhaps its says you worked on a game plan all week, which the players then failed to follow so you had to make multiple changes to try and get 11 on who will do what is asked of them. More than one way to slice all of of this.
But then you start the same players again and do it again. That's when it makes you look like you don't know what your doing and it destroys players confidence.
In the Chelsea game on Saturday the commentary team were talking about it. Hudson-Odi was substituted at half time (it actually turned out to be an injury but they didn't know that at the time) and had been subed as a sub in the previous game. Gary Neville was saying how it's a dangerous game to play with players and a quick way to lose the dressing room.
I know there are more half time subs now, due to the increase but the amount of half time sub we make is unbelievable.
This isn't Bowyer's first season either and we haven't heard stories about his behaviour in previous years.
Something has clearly happened this year that has made Bowyer struggle. Maybe it's the pressure of performing?
We never saw the press-conference 2021 Bowyer in previous years. Something has gone wrong somewhere.
Could have been last year... Solly & Bonne as examples.
Is Bonne a good example? Bowyer criticised him - and let's be clear, criticism of players shouldn't go in the same file that bullying goes in - in order to try and drive complacency out of his game. Bonne himself admitted that it spurred him on to do better and show that he could score goals, and it got him a £2m transfer in the summer. He will be earning more money at QPR so he'll see that as a successful move. He scored 11 Championship goals for us in his first season having been a non-league striker before that, but he has 3 goals for QPR this season. I'd say Bowyer knew a thing or two about how to get the best out of him.
This is what Bonne actually said:
“He [Bowyer] had his methods and in a wayit worked. In the moment when he is screaming and shouting I thought ‘he hates me and it must be something personal’.
It's actually incredibly unfair to just cherry-pick a quote from an interview without the context around it. That's why this thread has got so horrifically over the top, because of things like this. This was an interview were Bonne was acknowledging how much he'd improved at Charlton. The full quote is:
“He gave me a rifling after the Millwall game and I went on and scored three times,” said Bonne.
“I’ll be my own critic.
“I should’ve scored more goals – that’s what kills me. I got 11 and I
could’ve finished on 15. But if I had taken all of them then I’d be in
the Premier League. That’s why I’m not the finished article.
“He [Bowyer] had his methods and in a way it worked. In the moment
when he is screaming and shouting I thought ‘he hates me and it must be
something personal’.
“But he rang me up when I signed for QPR and we had a good chat – he
made it clear it was only to improve me. His words were ‘it’s some
turnaround’.”
It's very funny that you highlighted a lot of sections of the snippet you quoted (only the snippet, because any more adds context), but you didn't highlight 'in the moment', which is the most important bit. That whole section is Bonne acknowledging that as it happens Bowyer's methods might not have been pleasant, but he came to understand them and they worked on him. You cut off the second paragraph, which is essential to the point he's making, which is that it's harsh but it isn't personal, it's with the player's improvement in mind. I don't particularly like that method myself, but Bonne objectively improved at Charlton, and he's regressed since leaving. Can we stop making Bowyer out to be some kind of monster? He's not doing a good job at the moment but bloody hell.
As Bonne said. He is his own critic. The "screaming and shouting" is something that LB does as a matter of course, If you think that works on every player then that's entirely up to you.
What about calling out players in public? Do you think that that's OK too?
You're arguing with yourself here, it's definitely not to do with anything I've said. I literally said in my above post 'I don't particularly like that method myself'. I also haven't said anything about it working on every player, Dazzler suggested Bonne as an example of problematic Bowyer behavior and I pointed at that Bonne might not be a good example as he is someone it obviously worked on, before you came in to misrepresent his views by chopping up an interview with him. I think you've got confused.
It was only after Bonne left that LB told him why he did it. He didn't pull him to one side and say that while he was with us. He left it 'til he was gone and then spoke to him on the phone. He then explained that it wasn't personal but it is the perception of what LB is doing is causing the harm, It doesn't matter whether LB thinks it isn't personal one little bit.
But let's say Bonne is the success story. I really honestly can't say that those methods be it "screaming and shouting" or publicly rebuking the player has improved a single one of them this season. And we've used 32 of them. Most have visibly gone backwards.
Can we just stop making things up? There's nothing in the interview that says that. We're not in the dressing room or in training, so we don't know what they say. Here's an interview with Bowyer from September after we played Orient though:
“People say at times I’m harsh on people and at times I’ve said stuff –
but I do it for a reason. Because I have to push him. If I just accept a
performance that I don’t think is acceptable but I just accept that as
okay then he’s going to stay at that level – that’s how it works.
“For me to push him – that’s my job.
“Since I did criticise Macauley he has improved again loads.
“I’ll criticise players when I think it is right, but also praise them,
and I’ve done that with Macca. He is moving in the right direction – but
I will keep pushing him. No doubt I will criticise him again and praise
him again – that’s my job, because I do this on a daily basis. I’ve
criticised Lyle, I’ve criticised Pearcey [Jason Pearce], I’ve criticised
[Darren] Pratley and the young lads – because then they’ll improve."
So he explained it publicly then, it was hardly the first Bonne or anyone else had heard about it until after he left. You've taken Bonne's anecdote about Bowyer being nice to him after he left and added an entire narrative to it that isn't there. You don't have to agree with his methods, I don't like it either, but there are things being posted on this thread that are just outright lies, or pure speculation based on no fact, and I find that problematic. People's imaginations are running wild. It took me 2 minutes to find that quote from Bowyer on Google. Let's stick to reality.
2 of the nicest people associated with our club over the years would be by general agreement would be Steve Gritt and Chris Powell.
In 94 I was at the Training Ground running the line at a Reserve Team Friendly. At the end of the game Steve Gritt gave the biggest volley I have ever heard to a bunch of apprentices for not putting Equipment away.
In 2013 I was at the Training Ground watching the 1st team train as part of a package my brother had bought via this site for the Upbeats. At the send of the session Chris Powell pulled apart one of the younger professionals.
Both of the incidents would not be accepted in the 'normal' workplace today.
Neither of those incidents made me think anything less of these 2 great individuals because I accepted both incidents for what they were, football.
I'm not trying to justify any ones behaviour from the past or today but I do think a lot of context does need to be taken into account.
The reason bullying is perpetuated is just because people say “ oh it’s football” it’s the norm and accepted as such. We’ve seen similar attitudes in the armed forces and police. It’s not the norm and shouldn’t be accepted as such. It’s wrong and it’s never acceptable in any workplace including football. Those who are bullying need calling out and disciplined or dismissed just in the same way it would happen in any walk of life.
When you work on a game plan all week, then substitute 4 players at half-time, it really looks like you don't know what you doing. That you got it wrong in the first place and now you're desperate. Can't see any other way of looking at it.
Ort perhaps its says you worked on a game plan all week, which the players then failed to follow so you had to make multiple changes to try and get 11 on who will do what is asked of them. More than one way to slice all of of this.
If a week of training hasn't come up with a plan 11 professional players understand it was either a terrible plan or you haven't explained it very well.
Or you chose the wrong players for that plan. It's still not a good look.
When you work on a game plan all week, then substitute 4 players at half-time, it really looks like you don't know what you doing. That you got it wrong in the first place and now you're desperate. Can't see any other way of looking at it.
Ort perhaps its says you worked on a game plan all week, which the players then failed to follow so you had to make multiple changes to try and get 11 on who will do what is asked of them. More than one way to slice all of of this.
If a week of training hasn't come up with a plan 11 professional players understand it was either a terrible plan or you haven't explained it very well.
Or you chose the wrong players for that plan. It's still not a good look.
Or the players cba to apply his plan properly.
If all of the players collectively decide not one of them can be bothered to follow the plan... That's bad management. An entire squad of professionals doesn't just spontaneously give up for no reason.
Firstly I cannot see anything but two defeats in the next two games against Wigan & Oxford.
I think that tonight’s performance will answer a number of questions.
This is now in the hands of the players. If they really want Bowyer out, all it will take is another piss poor performance. Another repeat of the Burton or Blackpool performance then Bowyer will surely be dismissed before Saturday.
However if the team try, and give it a real go then it would show that they are still playing for Bowyer. That he hasn’t lost the dressing room and the players do care.
I really wouldn’t like to say what team will show up tonight.
If you want a perfect example of the selective blindness that loyalty causes, some posters are only just realising that Bowyer might not be a very nice person.
Nailed it - I have noticed this as well. As I have mentioned before, this is the man who:
Banned for 8 weeks by Charlton for his drug habits. Only played 40 odd games before leaving but somehow his time is treated as a messiah
Charged with affray, trashing a fast food restaurant and making racist remarks to the owner.
Once again caught up in an incident with (again) an Asian guy outside a nightclub which he got off with but begs the question why he got himself caught up in the first place.
Fought his own player on the pitch swinging punches left right and centre.
Now multiple rumours of bullying on the training ground.
‘One of our own’? Not in my book.
Powelly may not have been the greatest manager with us Hudders and Southend. But when someone says One of Our Own and Proper Charlton - step forward that man. Ten times classier than what we currently have.
Come on really. Dragging up some things from the past and one that he was found not guilty for to say he is not a nice person is ridiculous.
Apart from rumours of bullying that seems to come from reports of him making JW cry what has he done in the last few years to make you think he is not a nice person?
With regards to if he did make JW cry we do not know in what context it happened, JW might have been sensitive and got upset, Bowyer may have lost it and apologised we just don't know enough to start claims of bullying/not a nice person. Its the sort of thing that will now be gospel and taken as fact.
Its clear Bowyer has lost the dressing to me and it may because of instances within the dressing room and poor man management but that doe snot make him not a nice person.
I’m pretty sure that whenever he came back to Charlton as either a Leeds or West Ham player all of the above dominated any talk around him and if I remember he riled the fans up left right and centre when he was on the pitch. It got toxic but that’s now forgotten.
Back to the point on Powell. Yes this is stuff in the past, but I am pretty sure Chris Powell, Matt Holland, Mark Kinsella, Keith Jones, Claus Jensen, Andy Hunt, Clive Mendonda etc etc don’t have a Cv like that. Managers show character when the going is tough - it’s all well and good saying he was nice at the start but this isn’t getting any easier and I think it’s fair enough to question his suitability for the role (in the current circumstances) based on character up to now.
Tbh I interviewed someone for a senior role at my business and when I searched for examples of their work found a story on the Mail that they got caught up in a sexism case at the Beeb and were fired. That was in the past but sorry I wasn’t willing to take that person on board.
And before anyone asks - no I have never taken drugs, smashed up a McDonalds, or even come close to a situation like at Leeds.
Ive also never had a successful football career - but then again I’m unlikely to manage a club anytime soon so not really relevant.
Its forgotten because it is irrelevant and such a nothing point. I don't really get what that has got to do with anything and why you think that adds any weight to him being not a nice person.
To me I think you have a valid point in saying his character of being a win at all costs type old school may be the issue here and its his first test of this sort but again that don't make him not a nice person.
I could look back at things I have said/done in my past that I am not proud off and others may think because of that I am not a nice person. I would like to think that I have grown/learned and as a whole am a nice person, I think the majority of people are.
Comments
“He [Bowyer] had his methods and in a way it worked. In the moment when he is screaming and shouting I thought ‘he hates me and it must be something personal’.
However, after the last few weeks I just can't see it happening.
If we lose will LB definitely get the sack?
Probably no... but I suppose it may depend on the manner of the defeat.
Fingers crossed we will surprise everyone and win handsomely....
Back to the drugs now!
If Bowyer had justifications in his approach to the players, does it still make it right if it doesn't make the team perform on the pitch? Isn't that what he is there to do?
“I’ll be my own critic.
“I should’ve scored more goals – that’s what kills me. I got 11 and I could’ve finished on 15. But if I had taken all of them then I’d be in the Premier League. That’s why I’m not the finished article.
“He [Bowyer] had his methods and in a way it worked. In the moment when he is screaming and shouting I thought ‘he hates me and it must be something personal’.
“But he rang me up when I signed for QPR and we had a good chat – he made it clear it was only to improve me. His words were ‘it’s some turnaround’.”
It's very funny that you highlighted a lot of sections of the snippet you quoted (only the snippet, because any more adds context), but you didn't highlight 'in the moment', which is the most important bit. That whole section is Bonne acknowledging that as it happens Bowyer's methods might not have been pleasant, but he came to understand them and they worked on him. You cut off the second paragraph, which is essential to the point he's making, which is that it's harsh but it isn't personal, it's with the player's improvement in mind. I don't particularly like that method myself, but Bonne objectively improved at Charlton, and he's regressed since leaving. Can we stop making Bowyer out to be some kind of monster? He's not doing a good job at the moment but bloody hell.
Standard CharltonLife thread circle.
What about calling out players in public? Do you think that that's OK too?
Ort perhaps its says you worked on a game plan all week, which the players then failed to follow so you had to make multiple changes to try and get 11 on who will do what is asked of them. More than one way to slice all of of this.
I just saw a post suggesting he might have been bullying Solly & Bonne last year... it's just total gossip and bollocks to push a narrative.
If Bow's goes it's because his management isn't good enough not because of this salary or because he's bullied Johnny... I'm guessing tomorrows rumour will be he's banging all the wives
But let's say Bonne is the success story. I really honestly can't say that those methods be it "screaming and shouting" or publicly rebuking the player has improved a single one of them this season. And we've used 32 of them. Most have visibly gone backwards.
Or you chose the wrong players for that plan. It's still not a good look.
In the Chelsea game on Saturday the commentary team were talking about it. Hudson-Odi was substituted at half time (it actually turned out to be an injury but they didn't know that at the time) and had been subed as a sub in the previous game. Gary Neville was saying how it's a dangerous game to play with players and a quick way to lose the dressing room.
I know there are more half time subs now, due to the increase but the amount of half time sub we make is unbelievable.
“For me to push him – that’s my job.
“Since I did criticise Macauley he has improved again loads.
“I’ll criticise players when I think it is right, but also praise them, and I’ve done that with Macca. He is moving in the right direction – but I will keep pushing him. No doubt I will criticise him again and praise him again – that’s my job, because I do this on a daily basis. I’ve criticised Lyle, I’ve criticised Pearcey [Jason Pearce], I’ve criticised [Darren] Pratley and the young lads – because then they’ll improve."
So he explained it publicly then, it was hardly the first Bonne or anyone else had heard about it until after he left. You've taken Bonne's anecdote about Bowyer being nice to him after he left and added an entire narrative to it that isn't there. You don't have to agree with his methods, I don't like it either, but there are things being posted on this thread that are just outright lies, or pure speculation based on no fact, and I find that problematic. People's imaginations are running wild. It took me 2 minutes to find that quote from Bowyer on Google. Let's stick to reality.
I think we can now safely say he has lost it.
I think that tonight’s performance will answer a number of questions.
This is now in the hands of the players.
If they really want Bowyer out, all it will take is another piss poor performance. Another repeat of the Burton or Blackpool performance then Bowyer will surely be dismissed before Saturday.
However if the team try, and give it a real go then it would show that they are still playing for Bowyer. That he hasn’t lost the dressing room and the players do care.
I really wouldn’t like to say what team will show up tonight.
It's got to the point where he is dropping players he slagged off last week and replacing them with players he slagged off the week before!
He's nowhere to go with this. I predict another big kick on the gonads tonight.
Jokers