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Sandgaard and our academy

We’re now advertising for an Academy Head of Coaching role, who will report in to the Academy Manager, Steve Avory.

https://cafc.peoplehr.net/Pages/JobBoard/Opening.aspx?v=55036799-ad52-4ff4-bc2b-953615fc3ec9
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Comments

  • Not sure if this is a new role or a vacancy being filled.

    Palace have taken a few of our coaches recently.
  • Is our academy showing any positives signs? 

    Good young players displaying some potential? 

    If good players come through, then we will need to play it out wisely and keep them motivated.

    Sandgaurd may not sell them off easily...which is at least a positive, but the youth are likely to put in better performances if they are excited about long term career prospects and they know the world is their oyster.

    We have a proven great youth academy and hopefully it will stay that way. At least use it as a positive club investment if players move on early. 

    The money we make needs to be spent on the club itself. Not "breaking even".


  • edited May 12
    Yes, we have an excellent Academy.  And, unless the 'Brentford model' becomes demonstrably the way to go, long may our Academy continue.

    But I have one concern.

    We seem to produce decent footballers ... but they are almost exclusively smallish and/or lightweight physically.  We don't have too many physically powerful athletes from what I can see.

    This is not an issue for those players at their current level (hence, the success that Henry alludes to), but it becomes problematic eventually.  Burstow is the obvious latest example.  I see the same with Kanu.

    I know that there are examples of small, skilful players throughout the Leagues ... but players who lack physicality will often be bullied out of the game, despite their natural talents.  We are likely to see this with Scott Fraser, for example. 

    In the modern game, the powerful, but technically limited, athletes are just as likely to be successful as the gifted footballers.  A decent team needs both, of course, but the output from our Academy seems a bit one-dimensional, if I'm honest.

    Maybe the scouting algorithm will take care of this. 
  • Dave Rudd said:
    Yes, we have an excellent Academy.  And, unless the 'Brentford model' becomes demonstrably the way to go, long may our Academy continue.

    But I have one concern.

    We seem to produce decent footballers ... but they are almost exclusively smallish and/or lightweight physically.  We don't have too many physically powerful athletes from what I can see.

    This is not an issue for those players at their current level (hence, the success that Henry alludes to), but it becomes problematic eventually.  Burstow is the obvious latest example.  I see the same with Kanu.

    I know that there are examples of small, skilful players throughout the Leagues ... but players who lack physicality will often be bullied out of the game, despite their natural talents.  We are likely to see this with Scott Fraser, for example. 

    In the modern game, the powerful, but technically limited, athletes are just as likely to be successful as the gifted footballers.  A decent team needs both, of course, but the output from our Academy seems a bit one-dimensional, if I'm honest.

    Maybe the scouting algorithm will take care of this. 
    This is just perception. Reminder that Gomez, Konsa, Palmer came through our academy. Burstow is deceptively physical as well, and Kanu isn't exactly a slip of a lad. Just because we don't have any Darren Pratleys coming through doesn't mean the youth can't put themselves about a bit 
  • Dave Rudd said:
    Yes, we have an excellent Academy.  And, unless the 'Brentford model' becomes demonstrably the way to go, long may our Academy continue.

    But I have one concern.

    We seem to produce decent footballers ... but they are almost exclusively smallish and/or lightweight physically.  We don't have too many physically powerful athletes from what I can see.

    This is not an issue for those players at their current level (hence, the success that Henry alludes to), but it becomes problematic eventually.  Burstow is the obvious latest example.  I see the same with Kanu.

    I know that there are examples of small, skilful players throughout the Leagues ... but players who lack physicality will often be bullied out of the game, despite their natural talents.  We are likely to see this with Scott Fraser, for example. 

    In the modern game, the powerful, but technically limited, athletes are just as likely to be successful as the gifted footballers.  A decent team needs both, of course, but the output from our Academy seems a bit one-dimensional, if I'm honest.

    Maybe the scouting algorithm will take care of this. 
    I agree but that's also the way of the modern game. Years ago, plenty of good footballers were turned away by academies for being too small/lightweight. Players like Iniesta wouldn't have had clubs queuing round the corner like they would know. Even goalkeepers are expected to be decent footballers now. I'm no expert on academy football except for knowing someone whose son plays for Donny (u13's). He told me they turn away some lumps who look like they could be solid defenders and favour the ball playing ones as they have the potential at 11/12/13 to move into different positions so are less of a 'punt'. 
  • edited May 12
    Miles Leaburn is 6' 5"

    Don't think either Gomez or Konsa were small and neither are Bakrin or Elerewe.

    Not sure how tall Kanu is but he's 17 so still growing.

    But if someone is big AND good, bit like me, then they are likely to have been picked off by a Cat 1 academy.

    Charlie Barker isn't that tall for a defender but doesn't lack physicality.

  • edited May 12
    Learning how to use your body well and to be tough is something which comes at an older age for academy boys. Technique is key.Taken Brandon Hanlan  almost 5 years to become a seasoned league 1 player. 

    Hoping Aaron Henry will make the step up next season to first team after 20+ matches in the National league. 

    Seen him play twice but that Korey Anderson looks a very decent athlete.
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  • Karlan struggled for physicality when when he first broke through at 17 but clearly went away and bulked up and was suddenly a lot more physical when he came back under Gobbo. Just a shame that Gobbo decided to loan him to Crawley.
  • Dave2l said:
    Is our academy showing any positives signs? 

    Good young players displaying some potential? 

    If good players come through, then we will need to play it out wisely and keep them motivated.

    Sandgaurd may not sell them off easily...which is at least a positive, but the youth are likely to put in better performances if they are excited about long term career prospects and they know the world is their oyster.

    We have a proven great youth academy and hopefully it will stay that way. At least use it as a positive club investment if players move on early. 

    The money we make needs to be spent on the club itself. Not "breaking even".


    We've just won our U18 league and play the national semi-final on Saturday.

    We had a good run in the FA Youth Cup

    We've seen one of our academy players sold to the current champions of Europe

    We've seen eleven academy players make their debuts this season.

    Our U16s are meant to be even better than the U18s

    So, yes a few positive signs, I'd say.

    Just enquiring about academy players who are showing signs of making the 1st team at the moment.

    Any particular stand out names?
  • cafc999 said:
    Leuth said:
    In fact I've heard it on good authority that Irving has been tapped up by a Cat 1 club museum
    We won't mind letting him go on a free
    Benfica on a Bosman.

    Now get back to those signed Yann photos : - )
  • edited May 12
    Dave2l said:
    Dave2l said:
    Is our academy showing any positives signs? 

    Good young players displaying some potential? 

    If good players come through, then we will need to play it out wisely and keep them motivated.

    Sandgaurd may not sell them off easily...which is at least a positive, but the youth are likely to put in better performances if they are excited about long term career prospects and they know the world is their oyster.

    We have a proven great youth academy and hopefully it will stay that way. At least use it as a positive club investment if players move on early. 

    The money we make needs to be spent on the club itself. Not "breaking even".


    We've just won our U18 league and play the national semi-final on Saturday.

    We had a good run in the FA Youth Cup

    We've seen one of our academy players sold to the current champions of Europe

    We've seen eleven academy players make their debuts this season.

    Our U16s are meant to be even better than the U18s

    So, yes a few positive signs, I'd say.

    Just enquiring about academy players who are showing signs of making the 1st team at the moment.

    Any particular stand out names?
    Read the U23s thread,

    Kanu, Adigan, Santos, Rielly, Anderson, Elerewe, Kone, Chin, Williams, Leaburn all shining in the U18s and U23s.

    Doubt if many will play regularly for the first team next term but all prospects.

    Aaron Henry probably the closest.
  • I can only pass on what I have seen and experienced with my own eyes relating to Dave Rudd's post above.

    Saw Courtney Clarke play at 16 for Whyteleafe in their men's side at step 4 level. Strong and fit but was not great on the ball skill wise. More skilful Boys in the U18 year; goes to Norwich on loan but sent back, no deal. He gets a trial at Derby and they see the raw talent and he gets a scholar deal. Now 18 he has been playing in the Derby U23 in 2022. He could well make his debut in League 1 in 22/23 season.
    Saw a scout/recruiting  guy at the Den at a development match two weeks ago and he said "CJ" was the most improved out of all the 15 or so youngsters he has helped get Academy and pro deals in the last couple of years. "Skilful on the ball now"

    Same with Kwadwo Baah, so strong he made his debut at 15 in the Whyteleafe team (didn't see it, at Cafc match) but got the feedback.
    Released by Palace for non football reasons, he went into the Kenetic academy,
    (Connection then with Whyteleafe) before going to Rochdale where most Cafc fans saw him on Charlton TV score the two goals at the Covered end against Amos. Two footed player now at Watford and again should make his debut in the Championship (broken ankle delayed his debut this season) If he can impress Edwards the latest manager -do they even bother to put the manager's name on the door ?

    But have seen Steven Bala go to QPR and Sincere Hall just get a one year pro deal with Hull and a thin but still growing at 19 year Nico Lawrence get a deal with Southampton after impressing on trial against Brighton. Both Bala and Hall are small guys. Lawrence could emulate his dad and end up about 6ft 3in and the Gym work will help his strength against the bigger strikers. 
  • I have always thought we produce some very good footballers, my only concern if that's the correct term, would be a lot of them are not overly physical, the game has changed but I would love to see a really tough midfield general come through occasionally. 
  • Dave2l said:
    Is our academy showing any positives signs? 

    Good young players displaying some potential? 

    If good players come through, then we will need to play it out wisely and keep them motivated.

    Sandgaurd may not sell them off easily...which is at least a positive, but the youth are likely to put in better performances if they are excited about long term career prospects and they know the world is their oyster.

    We have a proven great youth academy and hopefully it will stay that way. At least use it as a positive club investment if players move on early. 

    The money we make needs to be spent on the club itself. Not "breaking even".


    We've just won our U18 league and play the national semi-final on Saturday.

    We had a good run in the FA Youth Cup

    We've seen one of our academy players sold to the current champions of Europe

    We've seen eleven academy players make their debuts this season.

    Our U16s are meant to be even better than the U18s

    So, yes a few positive signs, I'd say.
    Simply not good enough, maybe if we throw some pigs at them, they’ll do better.
  • I have always thought we produce some very good footballers, my only concern if that's the correct term, would be a lot of them are not overly physical, the game has changed but I would love to see a really tough midfield general come through occasionally. 

    You would think mid/late teens have the energy and attitude for that - if they want to get noticed early and prove themselves.

    Rooney certainly did


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  • edited May 12
    Another Ex Whyteleafe and Ex Charlton player may be the prototype for the tougher type of midfielder ?

    A young Peter Garland !

  • Dave2l said:
    Dave2l said:
    Is our academy showing any positives signs? 

    Good young players displaying some potential? 

    If good players come through, then we will need to play it out wisely and keep them motivated.

    Sandgaurd may not sell them off easily...which is at least a positive, but the youth are likely to put in better performances if they are excited about long term career prospects and they know the world is their oyster.

    We have a proven great youth academy and hopefully it will stay that way. At least use it as a positive club investment if players move on early. 

    The money we make needs to be spent on the club itself. Not "breaking even".


    We've just won our U18 league and play the national semi-final on Saturday.

    We had a good run in the FA Youth Cup

    We've seen one of our academy players sold to the current champions of Europe

    We've seen eleven academy players make their debuts this season.

    Our U16s are meant to be even better than the U18s

    So, yes a few positive signs, I'd say.

    Just enquiring about academy players who are showing signs of making the 1st team at the moment.

    Any particular stand out names?
    Read the U23s thread,

    Kanu, Adigan, Santos, Rielly, Anderson, Elerewe, Kone, Chin, Williams, Leaburn all shining in the U18s and U23s.

    Doubt if many will play regularly for the first team next term but all prospects.

    Aaron Henry probably the closest.

    Vava voom.

    He should practice backheel shots. 

    Keen to see how he progresses 
  • Interesting that there was a comment on here a week to 10 days ago that we have offered all but one of our U18's a contract.  But as yet no confirmation from the club of whom may have signed.  Leaburn, Adigun, Ladapo, Reilly, Mitchell, Kone all old enough to sign I think but nothing known.

    Have also heard that the offer to at least one was "disappointing" and unlikely to be accepted.  Hopefully it was an initial offer as would not wish to lose this golden generation.  Do appreciate however we are L1 and working to a budget.
  • Miles Leaburn is 6' 5"

    Don't think either Gomez or Konsa were small and neither are Bakrin or Elerewe.

    Not sure how tall Kanu is but he's 17 so still growing.

    But if someone is big AND good, bit like me, then they are likely to have been picked off by a Cat 1 academy.

    Charlie Barker isn't that tall for a defender but doesn't lack physicality.

    Yes, there are examples.  My comments were generalisations.

    A few points of detail:

    Tall doesn't necessarily mean physical.  I put Elerewe into that category ... and Konsa, for all that he is enjoying a Premier League career, is a good example of where the lack of physicality will limit his ultimate effectiveness.

    Don't get me wrong ... I love the work of our Academy, but don't assume, because we are blowing away the opposition at the moment, that the same crop of players will continue to do the same in years to come.  Yes, there will be successes, but a lot of these younger players will fall short, not because of technical ability, but simply for physical reasons.

    Anyway, we'll be Cat 1 soon enough (Thomas said), so we can take our pick of the big and strong then.

    "We all dream of a team of Henry I's".
  • A word of caution restraint might be in order.
    It is true that we are good, but I have seen other good sides, kind of stereotypically some of the northern teams are physically strong as well as being good players, teams and well coached.
    I sometimes wonder to what extent teams are matched in terms of age, but anyway, against our peers our players are very good.
    The development world is a proper sporting universe where you very rarely see shithousery from any team.
  • Is the under 18 game on Charlton tv? I am out of the country otherwise would go.
  • Don't write our youngsters off, we have a golden crop coming through, best since the Pope, cousens, Poyet era, maybe it will take another season or so but we will see the benefits of keeping them.
    At U16 level we have Joshua Laqeretabua who has played some U18 matches and one at U23 level at Southampton in a friendly, what a prospect he is.
  • Don't write our youngsters off, we have a golden crop coming through, best since the Pope, cousens, Poyet era, maybe it will take another season or so but we will see the benefits of keeping them.
    At U16 level we have Joshua Laqeretabua who has played some U18 matches and one at U23 level at Southampton in a friendly, what a prospect he is.
    I wonder how many will make it into and do a reasonable stint in the first  team and how many will be flogged to the highest  bidder as soon as they have scored a couple of goals for the first team?
  • Don't write our youngsters off, we have a golden crop coming through, best since the Pope, cousens, Poyet era, maybe it will take another season or so but we will see the benefits of keeping them.
    At U16 level we have Joshua Laqeretabua who has played some U18 matches and one at U23 level at Southampton in a friendly, what a prospect he is.
    I wonder how many will make it into and do a reasonable stint in the first  team and how many will be flogged to the highest  bidder as soon as they have scored a couple of goals for the first team?
    Too many probably but that says that those players are actually quite good as other, higher ranked, teams want them.

    I'd much rather they stayed longer with us as we'd get both more benefit from them on the pitch and more cash when they are sold but producing saleable players isn't a bad thing.

    It's also why Cat 1 is so important. It's also one of the last straws I'm clinging to right now.
  • Until we actually qualify properly, why don’t we just officially rename the academy the Charlton Athletic Cat. 1 Academy? That’l buy us some time and keep all the predators away.
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