3 weeks ago my pal left a message with the commercial Dept to sponsor a player, and was told they would call him back.
No call ever came.
Presumably they weren’t expecting to hear back from the commercial director, though? It’s not good but the staffing level is inadequate so things will slip through the net.
No, not at all - but the buck stops at the top.
Get more staff, and if TS won’t allow it, then he needs to have the balls to flag up that we are using resources to get goldfish membership and ignoring the more mainstream opportunities.
I thought it was pretty evident that what Thomas has been doing is rebuilding the foundations of the club that had been ripped out by the last few owners, from the Spivs to Duchatelet to the crooks.
As @Airman Brown says, there is little commercial opportunity in the third division with even very little local press coverage of the club. But what I do expect is that they are working on the potential for deals when the business/playing plan comes together and we are promoted.
Charlton TV is a huge uplift on what we had and one of the most professional offerings I have seen from any club. That bodes well and gives us a platform to expand on the commercial stuff when at higher levels.
Businesses getting the feeling that they’re dealing with actual, proper professionals as well will help.
This is all about rebuilding a great club and any business plan has to address the medium to long term as well as the here and now. I don’t think now is the time to be assessing the worth, or otherwise, of the work that Mumford is doing.
The next kit supplier deal is the test, if it’s just a catalogue deal with a third party then there is nothing to the new commercial team, if it’s a better deal with Hummel or a great deal with one of the new entrants on the market, then they’ve got something that will generate funds in higher divisions
The next kit supplier deal is the test, if it’s just a catalogue deal with a third party then there is nothing to the new commercial team, if it’s a better deal with Hummel or a great deal with one of the new entrants on the market, then they’ve got something that will generate funds in higher divisions
Important how that is, it is not the way to judge a commercial team. Getting promotion should get us that. New revenue streams are as important.
The next kit supplier deal is the test, if it’s just a catalogue deal with a third party then there is nothing to the new commercial team, if it’s a better deal with Hummel or a great deal with one of the new entrants on the market, then they’ve got something that will generate funds in higher divisions
Agreed. Some companies offer less money but more free kit to clubs, and others offer more money but less kit. Will be interesting to see what happens.
Some one mentioned mainstream opportunities? What you mean like the ECB launching the regeneration of its product line based on encouraging the nations youth to enjoy the health and well being of a national sport on the back of sponsorship from a junk food manufacturer? For what a reported price of 4mn over 5yrs?
I mean the market must be awash with opportunities right now.
I make HI about right.
Where in any of the words spoken was the suggestion there was to be major investment in the playing squad?
Where in the staff retention list and contract renewals advised in May did you see the capacity for wholesale change?
Why in the COVID world would you anticipate a multi million pound shirt sponsorship deal where in many sectors revenue streams have been decimated notably so when you are addressing a global market which will take years to recover.
Mumford referenced a significant multi year deal. He made no reference to the nature of the deal.
The new owner has been in the building just over 9 months following; - 9 months of pure and utter carnage after - 2 yrs of a skeleton budget & operational infrastructure after - 3 to 4 yrs of all out war between the executive and the club stakeholders after - a previous financial crash after - 2 years involving internal executive strife after - years of ever changing investors where the world and his wife seemed to own the club.
Just what exactly would be your positive messages to the staff and players who had lived through borderline Armageddon and missed out on the play offs on goal difference?
They were rally the troops messages. We go again.
Yea but he said…….. What he thought the club needed, and you wanted, to hear. Where you took the message is entirely a matter for you.
As for Mr Mumford do you understand how you construct these deals? You construct them based on building brand.
Just what exactly has the brand registered as over the past decade and what did it represent in August 2020?
It has represented instability, discord, manic disorganisation, chaos, alleged malpractice and the reality of extinction with many of its fan base apparently ready to spew indignation and much worse at the first hiatus in progress.
What was your problem again?
How about;
What is the reenergised relationship with CACT about?
What is Charlton TV about?
What is buying the Women’s Team about?
What is the Membership scheme about? (beyond a group of supporting intelligentsia getting « pissy » about £10 for a training day?)
What is the UofG relationship about?
It is about building brand within and beyond existing probably an out of date and decidedly clunky database profile set. It is about building brand numbers and understanding brand pricing points.
You do not do that in 9 months especially from ground zero without huge investment totally inappropriate at this stage of the project. Indeed any number of people will tell you it can’t be done at a League 1 level so why bother? So where do we go then? F*****g nowhere! Let’s not bother eh.
You have to start/ restart/ reboot somewhere.
On a broader level - Is the playing staff where the club wants it to be? I very much doubt it. Have multiple key milestones been missed? Absolutely. I know let’s all throw up our hands in horror ….or perhaps not.
Personally if I were Mr Adkins, I would probably be, behind closed doors, « spitting feathers » but……. he is a grown up.
What exactly do you expect people to do?
Chase the market or wait till they market at least shows signs of coming to you? Just 2 clubs out of 24 have chased the market. They maybe right but ………they maybe wrong.
Throughout the last 12yrs having processed through well over 300 professional contracts and churned through £70mn (all before you tot up the swathe of transfer fees received) we achieved two fleeting promotions. The primary financier in recent years in recompense walked off with the freeholds to the Stadium and Training Ground.
Some even deride the fact Sandgaard cannot afford the ground. Maybe he can, maybe he can’t but none of the 8 or 9 suitors over past 3 or 4 years will have had any serious intention of paying the ludicrous price demanded. Still it’s not your £50mn is it?
You want to the throw the dice just one more time? Is it really not time to change the record, CD, DVD or Digital download?
History suggests in any market you either stay consistent to your financial strategy or you do not. Open your wallet in the wrong place at the wrong time and the market will eat you alive often leaving you with precious few options to change course. Yes, you may just end up once again shopping in the last chance saloon but …..tomorrow is another day.
None of us know the budget allocated. None of us know the recruitment strategy (I mean who tells the market their investment strategy) None of us knows the state of the market but one blatantly simple fact is you do not get to spend the money twice.
If you trust the executive, (I palpably see no evidence after 9 months as to why I shouldn’t) you can but trust they will do everything they can to make up lost ground.
If you don’t I am not sure anyone can help you.
Would I have pursued a different strategy? Probably but I am no nearer our trading position than anyone else. As a consequence I am here to support the endeavours of Mr Adkins and his clubhouse how about you?
The next kit supplier deal is the test, if it’s just a catalogue deal with a third party then there is nothing to the new commercial team, if it’s a better deal with Hummel or a great deal with one of the new entrants on the market, then they’ve got something that will generate funds in higher divisions
I not really sure it matters that much tbh. The increase in central revenue is about 8 million quid. A purchased ticket for a match is about £8 when you factor in VAT, kids tickets etc. The mark up for a shirt is about £15 quid.
How many shirts do well sell a year? Accrington sell about 750, so if you guess at 2000 for us? It's only about £30k it's pretty irrelevant in the scheme of things. A year's worth of shirt sales is worth about an increase of less than 200 paid people per match.
The next kit supplier deal is the test, if it’s just a catalogue deal with a third party then there is nothing to the new commercial team, if it’s a better deal with Hummel or a great deal with one of the new entrants on the market, then they’ve got something that will generate funds in higher divisions
Important how that is, it is not the way to judge a commercial team. Getting promotion should get us that. New revenue streams are as important.
The kit deal for season 22/23 will be signed long before we know what division we'll be in.
Hummel were consulting the museum and fans in the October before the next season and had already put in lots of work before then.
But promotion would, most likely, change the value of any deal agreed.
The biggest impact you can have at this level is selling more tickets (along with food and merch) can’t see any evidence of any schemes so far that address this, in fact quite the opposite.
The biggest impact you can have at this level is selling more tickets (along with food and merch) can’t see any evidence of any schemes so far that address this, in fact quite the opposite.
We've sold 9k season tickets which may well be a record for this level.
There was certainly a big campaign around that.
The next step is to sell more match day tickets and, in part, the membership and group affiliation, are about that as they gather more info and allow more direct contact to groups and individuals.
There are valid criticisms of the membership scheme but it is a scheme
-no campaign during a long period of televised games which if you believe the press was reaching a big audience with potential new sales - No change to pricing or structures - No consultation with the FF (still not functioning)
you could argue they didn’t know which league and or covid impact on next year, but I don’t buy that personally.
along with fixing a number of things that weren’t necessarily broken, they fixed things that will have very little impact at all/not for a long time, which comes across as tinkering
On season tickets sold we’re approaching similar numbers to 10/11 and 11/12.
We lost about 3k at this level during the RD years after relegation and the protests had started.
Of course we now also have to deal with the impact of Covid. I expect that has either put some people off and others might no longer be in the position to be buying a season ticket for whatever reason.
The next kit supplier deal is the test, if it’s just a catalogue deal with a third party then there is nothing to the new commercial team, if it’s a better deal with Hummel or a great deal with one of the new entrants on the market, then they’ve got something that will generate funds in higher divisions
Agreed. Some companies offer less money but more free kit to clubs, and others offer more money but less kit. Will be interesting to see what happens.
Some want to run the club shop and others don’t, and I think Sandgaard has said he wants it ran in-house again
The biggest impact you can have at this level is selling more tickets (along with food and merch) can’t see any evidence of any schemes so far that address this, in fact quite the opposite.
We've sold 9k season tickets which may well be a record for this level.
There was certainly a big campaign around that.
The next step is to sell more match day tickets and, in part, the membership and group affiliation, are about that as they gather more info and allow more direct contact to groups and individuals.
There are valid criticisms of the membership scheme but it is a scheme
It's not. It is a return to the sort of numbers we had 2009-12 or, more specifically and hopefully by the end of August, 2009/10.
Clearly season ticket sales in L1 2016-19 were suppressed by the Duchatelet factor and are not a useful comparator.
What I think we did see in 2019/20 was some growth in match ticket sales, which could be very poor indeed in those earlier L1 seasons. For some evening games the club would struggle to sell 1,000 match tickets to home fans. I don't see the current pricing helping with that.
What different ideas would you have introduced @razil
I would radically overhaul the whole structure and gear it to maximising take up,( but I would do this firmly in partnership with the fans groups) particularly with regard to encouraging younger generations. I would pay a lot more attention to the offering and cost to fans of the match day experience, and would aim to make ours the best in the country.
What different ideas would you have introduced @razil
I would radically overhaul the whole structure and gear it to maximising take up,( but I would do this firmly in partnership with the fans groups) particularly with regard to encouraging younger generations. I would pay a lot more attention to the offering and cost to fans of the match day experience, and would aim to make ours the best in the country.
Yeah, nice buzz word bingo score but what would you have actually done?
What different ideas would you have introduced @razil
I would radically overhaul the whole structure and gear it to maximising take up,( but I would do this firmly in partnership with the fans groups) particularly with regard to encouraging younger generations. I would pay a lot more attention to the offering and cost to fans of the match day experience, and would aim to make ours the best in the country.
I get that, but what new innovation and radical new ideas would you employ to achieve all of that?
On season tickets sold we’re approaching similar numbers to 10/11 and 11/12.
We lost about 3k at this level during the RD years after relegation and the protests had started.
Of course we now also have to deal with the impact of Covid. I expect that has either put some people off and others might no longer be in the position to be buying a season ticket for whatever reason.
Those numbers will include half seasons, which are typically well under 500, but do mean you can't benchmark them against current sales. You also have to be cautious about what is being counted as it may differ between seasons / management.
From memory, 2009/10 was a bit over 10,000. I have all the data but it's not easily accessible.
Note the difference between 2012/13 and 2013/14 - that was because of a price hike. We could have been bolder in 2012, but the club got it wrong in 2013 and never recovered that ground subsequently.
Comments
This is all about rebuilding a great club and any business plan has to address the medium to long term as well as the here and now. I don’t think now is the time to be assessing the worth, or otherwise, of the work that Mumford is doing.
New revenue streams are as important.
I mean the market must be awash with opportunities right now.
I make HI about right.
Where in any of the words spoken was the suggestion there was to be major investment in the playing squad?
Where in the staff retention list and contract renewals advised in May did you see the capacity for wholesale change?
Why in the COVID world would you anticipate a multi million pound shirt sponsorship deal where in many sectors revenue streams have been decimated notably so when you are addressing a global market which will take years to recover.
Mumford referenced a significant multi year deal. He made no reference to the nature of the deal.
The new owner has been in the building just over 9 months following;
- 9 months of pure and utter carnage after
- 2 yrs of a skeleton budget & operational infrastructure after
- 3 to 4 yrs of all out war between the executive and the club stakeholders after
- a previous financial crash after
- 2 years involving internal executive strife after
- years of ever changing investors where the world and his wife seemed to own the club.
Just what exactly would be your positive messages to the staff and players who had lived through borderline Armageddon and missed out on the play offs on goal difference?
They were rally the troops messages. We go again.
Yea but he said…….. What he thought the club needed, and you wanted, to hear. Where you took the message is entirely a matter for you.
As for Mr Mumford do you understand how you construct these deals? You construct them based on building brand.
Just what exactly has the brand registered as over the past decade and what did it represent in August 2020?
It has represented instability, discord, manic disorganisation, chaos, alleged malpractice and the reality of extinction with many of its fan base apparently ready to spew indignation and much worse at the first hiatus in progress.
What was your problem again?
How about;
What is the reenergised relationship with CACT about?
What is Charlton TV about?
What is buying the Women’s Team about?
What is the Membership scheme about? (beyond a group of supporting intelligentsia getting « pissy » about £10 for a training day?)
What is the UofG relationship about?
It is about building brand within and beyond existing probably an out of date and decidedly clunky database profile set. It is about building brand numbers and understanding brand pricing points.
You do not do that in 9 months especially from ground zero without huge investment totally inappropriate at this stage of the project. Indeed any number of people will tell you it can’t be done at a League 1 level so why bother? So where do we go then? F*****g nowhere! Let’s not bother eh.
You have to start/ restart/ reboot somewhere.
On a broader level - Is the playing staff where the club wants it to be? I very much doubt it. Have multiple key milestones been missed? Absolutely. I know let’s all throw up our hands in horror ….or perhaps not.
Personally if I were Mr Adkins, I would probably be, behind closed doors, « spitting feathers » but……. he is a grown up.
What exactly do you expect people to do?
Chase the market or wait till they market at least shows signs of coming to you? Just 2 clubs out of 24 have chased the market. They maybe right but ………they maybe wrong.
Throughout the last 12yrs having processed through well over 300 professional contracts and churned through £70mn (all before you tot up the swathe of transfer fees received) we achieved two fleeting promotions. The primary financier in recent years in recompense walked off with the freeholds to the Stadium and Training Ground.
Some even deride the fact Sandgaard cannot afford the ground. Maybe he can, maybe he can’t but none of the 8 or 9 suitors over past 3 or 4 years will have had any serious intention of paying the ludicrous price demanded. Still it’s not your £50mn is it?
You want to the throw the dice just one more time? Is it really not time to change the record, CD, DVD or Digital download?
None of us know the budget allocated. None of us know the recruitment strategy (I mean who tells the market their investment strategy) None of us knows the state of the market but one blatantly simple fact is you do not get to spend the money twice.
If you trust the executive, (I palpably see no evidence after 9 months as to why I shouldn’t) you can but trust they will do everything they can to make up lost ground.
If you don’t I am not sure anyone can help you.
Would I have pursued a different strategy? Probably but I am no nearer our trading position than anyone else. As a consequence I am here to support the endeavours of Mr Adkins and his clubhouse how about you?
How many shirts do well sell a year? Accrington sell about 750, so if you guess at 2000 for us? It's only about £30k it's pretty irrelevant in the scheme of things. A year's worth of shirt sales is worth about an increase of less than 200 paid people per match.
Hummel were consulting the museum and fans in the October before the next season and had already put in lots of work before then.
But promotion would, most likely, change the value of any deal agreed.
There was certainly a big campaign around that.
The next step is to sell more match day tickets and, in part, the membership and group affiliation, are about that as they gather more info and allow more direct contact to groups and individuals.
There are valid criticisms of the membership scheme but it is a scheme
There was a lot of negatively when we didn't make the playoffs so it wasn't a given that we break records for ST sales.
And the prices weren't cheap either.
Whatever way you look at it the campaign was a success.
I think the "open" training session is a missed opportunity but clearly the club disagree.
-no campaign during a long period of televised games which if you believe the press was reaching a big audience with potential new sales
- No change to pricing or structures
- No consultation with the FF (still not functioning)
you could argue they didn’t know which league and or covid impact on next year, but I don’t buy that personally.
along with fixing a number of things that weren’t necessarily broken, they fixed things that will have very little impact at all/not for a long time, which comes across as tinkering
We lost about 3k at this level during the RD years after relegation and the protests had started.
Of course we now also have to deal with the impact of Covid. I expect that has either put some people off and others might no longer be in the position to be buying a season ticket for whatever reason.
Clearly season ticket sales in L1 2016-19 were suppressed by the Duchatelet factor and are not a useful comparator.
What I think we did see in 2019/20 was some growth in match ticket sales, which could be very poor indeed in those earlier L1 seasons. For some evening games the club would struggle to sell 1,000 match tickets to home fans. I don't see the current pricing helping with that.
New owner ✅
New Manager ✅
New kit ✅
New players ✅
New stand name ✅
It will be a big crowd even if its "inflated".
From memory, 2009/10 was a bit over 10,000. I have all the data but it's not easily accessible.
Note the difference between 2012/13 and 2013/14 - that was because of a price hike. We could have been bolder in 2012, but the club got it wrong in 2013 and never recovered that ground subsequently.