I do not like seeing clubs in financial problems, and do not know how many points Wigan will be penalised, 8, 10 or 12, which will help our position, providing it is this season, but I hope they get it sorted out and can carry on playing.
Just noticed a Wigan thread so will add it over there
Administration carries a penalty of 12 points deduction.
If applied immediately, Wigan would now be bottom with 38 points ....... 4 points behind safety with 6 games to play. On current form, they would have every chance of safety.
But the double whammy is that should they escape relegation, they start next season in the Championship on minus 12 points.
No. There are 3 alternatives
1) they finish 12 points or better above the bottom 3, get the deduction and stay up 2) they finish less than 12 points above the bottom 3, get the deduction and go down to L1 3) they finish in the bottom 3 before any deduction, and start next season in L1 on -12
Apparently the Sheffield Wednesday decision will be made public in the next two weeks. I feel a bit sorry for their fans having to wait this long. It has been with the EFL for nine months. What on earth can take so long? I can only assume that there is more to it than we have heard to date. Looking at Owls talk it seems the taxi firm that is a sponsor and who’s advert appears on their season tickets is a sham and one of the owners “pop up” companies. Makes you think how many more there are.
If they were quicker with their initial decisions it would be fairer and speed up the whole process. For example, if they had said in November 20 points deducted, SW would be falling over themselves to appeal and get the evidence together. Letting it drag on gives them an argument for mitigation for delay. If they had said 5 points they may have shrugged and got on with it. Saving a huge amount of angst and lawyers fees. Suspended point deduction would help ensure future compliance. They really need to get it together.
For Wigan, having the decision now means that their players have the advantage of knowing how many wins they need. 4= net 50 and that could well be safe. bang in form. With us and Sheffield W , we may get the points deduction but if we don’t get a decision from the EFL about our investigation soon it could leave us in the shit as we have no idea of our real target.
Not really. We would appeal and the hearing would probably be next Christmas.
You have made me think 🤔 Perhaps the delay with SW result is that they are negotiating a no appeal deal so need to see a few more results before they deduct the points.
From what I have heard the EFL want to really hammer Wednesday and they are going to give them, rather fittingly, a massive points deduction.
The hold up is Wednesday want it all in this season (it will send them down) but the EFL want enough to relegate them and the balance carried over to next season, effectively meaning they won't get promoted.
It's all a bit stinky and logic (yes we know the efl lack that) implies that if you hit Wigan now then Wednesday should be hit this season too... Otherwise all hell will break loose with the final bottom three plus Wigan taking the efl to Court.
To be honest after what we've all been through I could care less about any team including Wigan.... We need to survive this season any which way how so screw the other teams.. They'd have no sympathy for us. That sounds very Millwall but nobody can understand what our club has gone through... An absolute shit show that just keeps on giving!
From what I have heard the EFL want to really hammer Wednesday and they are going to give them, rather fittingly, a massive points deduction.
The hold up is Wednesday want it all in this season (it will send them down) but the EFL want enough to relegate them and the balance carried over to next season, effectively meaning they won't get promoted.
I'll take that being the scenario. I feel for Wigan but I have much less sympathy for this level of cheating from Wednesday
From what I have heard the EFL want to really hammer Wednesday and they are going to give them, rather fittingly, a massive points deduction.
The hold up is Wednesday want it all in this season (it will send them down) but the EFL want enough to relegate them and the balance carried over to next season, effectively meaning they won't get promoted.
If that’s an accurate picture then we can expect both Wigan and Wednesday having points deducted. If the points punishment will effectively relegate Wednesday then won’t that have to be in excess of 20 points ? They have a game tonight v West Brom which should they win would take them to 55 points. I hope you’re correct.
Had a look at Owlstalk. They seem to think the investigation is into its sixth day. I thought someone put on here last week that it had concluded and the decision was due this week?
Based on the above post could it be that the EFL are waiting to see what happens tonight with Wednesdays points tally ? Giving a punishment that relegates them ?
I would be surprised if this was the case. The EFL won't give a points deduction and carry the balance over. When has that ever happened? They could automatically relegate 2 divisions if they felt that was appropriate. I suspect the issue would be more to do with the precedent caused by only giving Brum a 9 point deduction last season. Brum fully co-operated at the time, but then didn't do what they promisedin the January window. I think the EFL want to punish Wednesday harder for not taking the punishment on the chin, as an example, but they have created their own mess through inconsistent punishments.
My take on the Wednesday situation for what it's worth.
It's an independent tribunal that's making the decision. I understand they finished their deliberations last Thursday and probably made their decision known to EFL/Wednesday on Friday.
I suspect that one of them have appealed against the decision and the tribunal will be hearing that appeal now to get it over with, one way or the other, without any further possible outcomes down the line.
They need to get this one right otherwise both Barnsley and Middlesbrough have threatened to take EFL through the Courts.
Had a look at Owlstalk. They seem to think the investigation is into its sixth day. I thought someone put on here last week that it had concluded and the decision was due this week?
It was from Owl talk that I heard that the hearing had finished and that they expected the decision to be out by the weekend. ( the weekend just gone).
A national paper (Telegraph I think) said only today that the outcome will be known within the next two weeks.
I would be surprised if this was the case. The EFL won't give a points deduction and carry the balance over. When has that ever happened? They could automatically relegate 2 divisions if they felt that was appropriate. I suspect the issue would be more to do with the precedent caused by only giving Brum a 9 point deduction last season. Brum fully co-operated at the time, but then didn't do what they promisedin the January window. I think the EFL want to punish Wednesday harder for not taking the punishment on the chin, as an example, but they have created their own mess through inconsistent punishments.
20 points for the "fraudulent accounting" plus 12 points for the original FFP breach that the "accounting" avoided?
If the 1st doesn't relegate you, the second one will!
I would be surprised if this was the case. The EFL won't give a points deduction and carry the balance over. When has that ever happened? They could automatically relegate 2 divisions if they felt that was appropriate. I suspect the issue would be more to do with the precedent caused by only giving Brum a 9 point deduction last season. Brum fully co-operated at the time, but then didn't do what they promisedin the January window. I think the EFL want to punish Wednesday harder for not taking the punishment on the chin, as an example, but they have created their own mess through inconsistent punishments.
20 points for the "fraudulent accounting" plus 12 points for the original FFP breach that the "accounting" avoided?
If the 1st doesn't relegate you, the second one will!
That'd be the biggest deduction ever.
How does what Wednesday have done compare to Luton when they were deducted 30 points?
Had a look at Owlstalk. They seem to think the investigation is into its sixth day. I thought someone put on here last week that it had concluded and the decision was due this week?
I posted last Saturday that sky sports at their game with Bristol City said they would know the answer this week. Seems as though sky may be wrong.
I do not like seeing clubs in financial problems, and do not know how many points Wigan will be penalised, 8, 10 or 12, which will help our position, providing it is this season, but I hope they get it sorted out and can carry on playing.
Just noticed a Wigan thread so will add it over there
Administration carries a penalty of 12 points deduction.
If applied immediately, Wigan would now be bottom with 38 points ....... 4 points behind safety with 6 games to play. On current form, they would have every chance of safety.
But the double whammy is that should they escape relegation, they start next season in the Championship on minus 12 points.
No. There are 3 alternatives
1) they finish 12 points or better above the bottom 3, get the deduction and stay up 2) they finish less than 12 points above the bottom 3, get the deduction and go down to L1 3) they finish in the bottom 3 before any deduction, and start next season in L1 on -12
Fair enough, Killer - thanks for making that clear.
One thing I've never understood ..... a 12 point deduction, that doesn't relegate the guilty team (or deny a club promotion), is no penalty at all.
What point is there in giving out a penalty that effectively doesn't punish a club?
From what I have heard the EFL want to really hammer Wednesday and they are going to give them, rather fittingly, a massive points deduction.
The hold up is Wednesday want it all in this season (it will send them down) but the EFL want enough to relegate them and the balance carried over to next season, effectively meaning they won't get promoted.
I'll take that being the scenario. I feel for Wigan but I have much less sympathy for this level of cheating from Wednesday
According to efl rules any appeal to a decision cannot bring in any new evidence but the delay is mind blowing.
It does make you wonder what they would be appealing. If an independent panel - well sort of independent. SW would have nominated one person to be on the 3 person panel, EFL one, and one independent. No idea where he rocks up from.
So I guess the appeal is just “ really? You sure?”.
According to efl rules any appeal to a decision cannot bring in any new evidence but the delay is mind blowing.
It does make you wonder what they would be appealing. If an independent panel - well sort of independent. SW would have nominated one person to be on the 3 person panel, EFL one, and one independent. No idea where he rocks up from.
So I guess the appeal is just “ really? You sure?”.
It should be like jury duty for club employees, one week it’s the head of sports science at Arsenal, the next it’s Mike , a steward at Tranmere
I do not like seeing clubs in financial problems, and do not know how many points Wigan will be penalised, 8, 10 or 12, which will help our position, providing it is this season, but I hope they get it sorted out and can carry on playing.
Just noticed a Wigan thread so will add it over there
Administration carries a penalty of 12 points deduction.
If applied immediately, Wigan would now be bottom with 38 points ....... 4 points behind safety with 6 games to play. On current form, they would have every chance of safety.
But the double whammy is that should they escape relegation, they start next season in the Championship on minus 12 points.
No. There are 3 alternatives
1) they finish 12 points or better above the bottom 3, get the deduction and stay up 2) they finish less than 12 points above the bottom 3, get the deduction and go down to L1 3) they finish in the bottom 3 before any deduction, and start next season in L1 on -12
Fair enough, Killer - thanks for making that clear.
One thing I've never understood ..... a 12 point deduction, that doesn't relegate the guilty team (or deny a club promotion), is no penalty at all.
What point is there in giving out a penalty that effectively doesn't punish a club?
It's still a punishment though. Give Forest a 12 point deduction and they could miss the playoffs. They could have made it stricter I suppose - automatic relegation OR a 12 point deduction if you would have been relegated anyway, but that might be considered too harsh
The difference between Wednesday and Wigan is that the former is a unique situation where the rule book doesn't say what the punishment is, whereas for administration the 12 point deduction is the set punishment
Comments
1) they finish 12 points or better above the bottom 3, get the deduction and stay up
2) they finish less than 12 points above the bottom 3, get the deduction and go down to L1
3) they finish in the bottom 3 before any deduction, and start next season in L1 on -12
You have made me think 🤔 Perhaps the delay with SW result is that they are negotiating a no appeal deal so need to see a few more results before they deduct the points.
The hold up is Wednesday want it all in this season (it will send them down) but the EFL want enough to relegate them and the balance carried over to next season, effectively meaning they won't get promoted.
To be honest after what we've all been through I could care less about any team including Wigan.... We need to survive this season any which way how so screw the other teams.. They'd have no sympathy for us. That sounds very Millwall but nobody can understand what our club has gone through... An absolute shit show that just keeps on giving!
It's an independent tribunal that's making the decision. I understand they finished their deliberations last Thursday and probably made their decision known to EFL/Wednesday on Friday.
I suspect that one of them have appealed against the decision and the tribunal will be hearing that appeal now to get it over with, one way or the other, without any further possible outcomes down the line.
They need to get this one right otherwise both Barnsley and Middlesbrough have threatened to take EFL through the Courts.
A national paper (Telegraph I think) said only today that the outcome will be known within the next two weeks.
If the 1st doesn't relegate you, the second one will!
How does what Wednesday have done compare to Luton when they were deducted 30 points?
One thing I've never understood ..... a 12 point deduction, that doesn't relegate the guilty team (or deny a club promotion), is no penalty at all.
What point is there in giving out a penalty that effectively doesn't punish a club?
That wasn’t mid season though was it?
So I guess the appeal is just “ really? You sure?”.
Edit quoted the wrong post and now look like a total idiot, as opposed to the idiot I looked like before!
The difference between Wednesday and Wigan is that the former is a unique situation where the rule book doesn't say what the punishment is, whereas for administration the 12 point deduction is the set punishment