EFL are useless, these charges were made against these clubs month's ago, but nothing has happened, but they still wait until all the games have been played, and points deducted and fines will be made - the points deduction will mean all of these clubs escape relegation by a point, aka Macclesfield. Toothless/Useless prats......
Barnsley are owned by Chien Lee, whose business is worth about $9 billion, but Barnsley are absolutely committed to living sustainably. To an almost ridiculous degree. I wonder how different some of these outcomes would be if he really started throwing his weight around.
Barnsley are owned by Chien Lee, whose business is worth about $9 billion, but Barnsley are absolutely committed to living sustainably. To an almost ridiculous degree. I wonder how different some of these outcomes would be if he really started throwing his weight around.
Could we not say the same about Duchatelet?
Definitely, other clubs voted to up the spending limits which he was very much against.
He thought he was buying into a far leveller playing field
Barnsley are owned by Chien Lee, whose business is worth about $9 billion, but Barnsley are absolutely committed to living sustainably. To an almost ridiculous degree. I wonder how different some of these outcomes would be if he really started throwing his weight around.
Could we not say the same about Duchatelet?
Definitely, other clubs voted to up the spending limits which he was very much against.
He thought he was buying into a far leveller playing field
However level the playing field was he would still make stupid decisions, wasting whatever money that he was entitled to spend. The easing of FFP is just an excuse.
Surprised at the lack of a verdict from the EFL, or are they dragging it out to make it look like they thought long and hard before giving Wednesday a suspended sentence and a £50 fine?
Surprised at the lack of a verdict from the EFL, or are they dragging it out to make it look like they thought long and hard before giving Wednesday a suspended sentence and a £50 fine?
Surprised at the lack of a verdict from the EFL, or are they dragging it out to make it look like they thought long and hard before giving Wednesday a suspended sentence and a £50 fine?
I really thought it would be over Thursday morning. Four bloody days. How much evidence can there possibly be?
Really hoping the delay is to show Sheffield Wednesday that they thought long and hard before relegating them. Any fudge now will be a disgrace.
Surprised at the lack of a verdict from the EFL, or are they dragging it out to make it look like they thought long and hard before giving Wednesday a suspended sentence and a £50 fine?
Firstly it's an Independent panel hearing the case & secondly I thought it was said from the start that its likely to take more than a week. Don't think we'll hear anything before next week.
Owls talk seem to be suggesting the hearing ended yesterday and that they are now considering the evidence. They seem to be very optimistic now. They think the EFL will be sued if they question the honesty of the surveyors who valued the swamp land the stadium sits on at £80 million, or the accountant who followed ‘normal’ accounting practice and added the money to an earlier year. They may well be right, but I guess what really matters is it outside the rules of fair play. They are also confident that if it does go against them they will appeal so they don’t get the points deducted this year and will eventually get this all kicked into the long grass.
When an average terraced house next door to Hillsborough stadium costs around £130k I can't see th land being worth anywhere near that.
The cost of the stadium seems to have only a small relevance in the matter. As quoted on the owlstalk forum, Brightons stadium cost 90m to build, so 60m seems a reasonable valuation as a new one would need to be built. Is the crux whether they used 'creative accounting' and applied the charge (and sold it to themselves) in breach of FFP rules?
I thought it was the accounting that was the problem. Valuing a very illiquid asset like a football stadium is tricky. It worth less to a developer ( who wants to pull it down) that it is to a football team who might want a new ground.
At the same time, a ground is not valued by how much it would cost to build a new ground. You’d think the FA would have a clear formula to be used - the land value plus the building values (less depreciation). They can decide how long building cost depreciate over, but unlike a house and commercial building, football stadiums do not increase in value, as the are always moving towards obsolescence and replacement.
When an average terraced house next door to Hillsborough stadium costs around £130k I can't see th land being worth anywhere near that.
The cost of the stadium seems to have only a small relevance in the matter. As quoted on the owlstalk forum, Brightons stadium cost 90m to build, so 60m seems a reasonable valuation as a new one would need to be built. Is the crux whether they used 'creative accounting' and applied the charge (and sold it to themselves) in breach of FFP rules?
I don’t think the cost of building a stadium is relevant. Spurs stadium was something like £650 million. Doesn’t make our ground worth similar. It is true that a property is only worth what someone is prepared to pay, but would anyone other than an owner trying to get around FFP pay £60m for a site outside Sheffield. I think not. Would a prospective new buyer pay that? I think not.
This is why it is totally impossible to actually value a football stadium.
A house (because we love a house analogy) is basically worth the land value, plus the rebuild value. It's the land that changes in value depending on location. Not the actual building.
Most of the older football stadiums with massive land value, compared to a viable replacement, have already gone.
If the Glazers sold Manchester United, but kept hold of Old Trafford, how much would the football club be prepared to pay to buy it back?
What's worth more as a football ground, Annfield or Craven Cottage?
I don't think you could ever make a valuation of a football ground stand up in court.
Saying that the accounting practise is dodgy, at best, and is totally against the spirt, if not the letter, of the rules.
How ever what ever the punishment dished out it will be viewed as wrong by a lot of people.
All you need to know is that they put the sale value in the wrong year's accounts. Doesn't matter if it was worth £6m or £60m. Offsetting the value in the wrong accounting year because that year was the one you overspent on is not a clerical error. Its fraud.
Barnsley are owned by Chien Lee, whose business is worth about $9 billion, but Barnsley are absolutely committed to living sustainably. To an almost ridiculous degree. I wonder how different some of these outcomes would be if he really started throwing his weight around.
Could we not say the same about Duchatelet?
For sure. With Roland's wealth, though it's less than Lee has, he definitely could have chucked it about and speculated. You can't blame him for not, it's a mug's game. The difference is though it's not like Roland didn't spend at all. He spent loads, he just spent it really, really stupidly. Bergdich is always a great example. Signed a completely unsuitable player for a fee, gave him a four(!) year contract and then had to cancel that contract after a year when no-one would pay to take someone that rubbish off us. Bonkers. Imagine if we'd spent that money on someone good. Or even imagine if we'd given a good player like Lyle a four year contract. Barnsley seemingly never speculate on signings, they always keep the budget low.
All you need to know is that they put the sale value in the wrong year's accounts. Doesn't matter if it was worth £6m or £60m. Offsetting the value in the wrong accounting year because that year was the one you overspent on is not a clerical error. Its fraud.
do we know if the EFL actually know about this fact? wouldn't surprise me if they completely missed it.
If the hearing is finished, I would take any delay as a negative. If it was deemed Wednesday were innocent, that could be announced immediately. What seems more likely is further time is needed to determine the appropriate punishment.
Although there's bound to be an appeal if Wednesday lose, the Tribunal will be doing their utmost to try and make their decision and reasoning 'appeal proof', whatever the outcome. I'd therefore expect some delay before the findings are handed down.
Comments
£60 million. It is not even in Sheffield City centre.
Farmland about £7500 an acre.
(Other facial expressions are available)
He thought he was buying into a far leveller playing field
The easing of FFP is just an excuse.
They seem to be very optimistic now. They think the EFL will be sued if they question the honesty of the surveyors who valued the swamp land the stadium sits on at £80 million, or the accountant who followed ‘normal’ accounting practice and added the money to an earlier year.
They may well be right, but I guess what really matters is it outside the rules of fair play.
They are also confident that if it does go against them they will appeal so they don’t get the points deducted this year and will eventually get this all kicked into the long grass.
It is true that a property is only worth what someone is prepared to pay, but would anyone other than an owner trying to get around FFP pay £60m for a site outside Sheffield. I think not. Would a prospective new buyer pay that? I think not.
A house (because we love a house analogy) is basically worth the land value, plus the rebuild value. It's the land that changes in value depending on location. Not the actual building.
Most of the older football stadiums with massive land value, compared to a viable replacement, have already gone.
If the Glazers sold Manchester United, but kept hold of Old Trafford, how much would the football club be prepared to pay to buy it back?
What's worth more as a football ground, Annfield or Craven Cottage?
I don't think you could ever make a valuation of a football ground stand up in court.
Saying that the accounting practise is dodgy, at best, and is totally against the spirt, if not the letter, of the rules.
How ever what ever the punishment dished out it will be viewed as wrong by a lot of people.
Willmott Dixon paid £20m for Griffin Park
https://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-67800936.html