Even those who paid the right money may not sit in the right seat.
I wouldn’t fancy stewards coming into the stand mid match to check tickets of people around me as they chose to move back when the rain starts in the west stand or for whatever reason. Getting in the way of those ‘law abiding fans’ watching the match? That also wouldn’t be ok. And the club would again get pelters.
It is poor planning to issue this late on a Friday granted. But as Airman mentioned, with very few staff, and very little budget it’s not surprising it’s not been thought about in detail. Tomorrow should be an ‘intro’ and a reminder to attendees that in future they should bring ID but no one should have a ticket confiscated until comms have been properly communicated over a couple of home games.
The informing the club of someone else using an ST is going to be a right disaster. Assume you can email them to let them know?
RD has made a right mess of running the club which will end up costing him a lot of money - what he can't be accused of however is ripping fans off by raising ticket prices. That will be the topic for a future owner and future protests I'm sure. Its all good at the moment - the football is very good, the atmosphere is very good, the season ticket prices are very good. If you are border line under 18 or 11 or over 65 and are getting your knickers in a twist about having to carry a form of ID, then you need to get some real problems to get angry about. Personally, i haven't cheated the system but i can see why people have and do accept that a lot of those wouldn't have done so in the past and it is about RD. However, its understandable them clamping down on it now.
You maybe happy 'showing your papers' to self appointed authoritarians.
Members of my family fought (and died) in wars to save us from that kind of intrusion.
There is a principle of personal freedom here. We are too willing to follow corporate diktats regarding required papers, payment methods etc. It's about time we kicked back against unreasonable behaviour.
But people not paying the correct amount for their tickets are acting completely reasonably?
I have repeatedly said that if you catch fraudsters punish them but you do not do that by oppressing the law abiding majority in my opinion anyway.
Len, how do you catch them without checking ?
See above.
So an ID check is borderline totalitarian state but CCTV cameras checking ever seat is OK?
Also how would they know what the person in that seat should look like without some photo on record?
Or if the 17 year old they are filming who has just bought a ticket today and is sitting with their mates is 17 or the person who bought the ticket?
It has been amended and now confirms it is about concession tickets & concession S/Ts. (Possibly by Olly after reading this thread.)
"Concession season ticket holders are also reminded to bring along appropriate identification alongside their season ticket. Any fan found to be using another individual's concession season ticket without informing the ticket office prior to any game will also risk having their ticket confiscated from them. If any concession season ticket holder wishes to assign their ticket to another individual, they will need to contact our ticket office with the name and age of the individual the wish to transfer the ticket to."
RD has made a right mess of running the club which will end up costing him a lot of money - what he can't be accused of however is ripping fans off by raising ticket prices. That will be the topic for a future owner and future protests I'm sure. Its all good at the moment - the football is very good, the atmosphere is very good, the season ticket prices are very good. If you are border line under 18 or 11 or over 65 and are getting your knickers in a twist about having to carry a form of ID, then you need to get some real problems to get angry about. Personally, i haven't cheated the system but i can see why people have and do accept that a lot of those wouldn't have done so in the past and it is about RD. However, its understandable them clamping down on it now.
You maybe happy 'showing your papers' to self appointed authoritarians.
Members of my family fought (and died) in wars to save us from that kind of intrusion.
There is a principle of personal freedom here. We are too willing to follow corporate diktats regarding required papers, payment methods etc. It's about time we kicked back against unreasonable behaviour.
But people not paying the correct amount for their tickets are acting completely reasonably?
I have repeatedly said that if you catch fraudsters punish them but you do not do that by oppressing the law abiding majority in my opinion anyway.
How do you propose they catch them?
Every seat is supposedly under video surveillance as I understand it. The database of tickets can be compared with actual occupants during matches and significant variances investigated afterwards or alternatively stewards can be instructed to target the relevant seats. For example if an under 11seat has an adult in it you send a steward in to investigate.
Different parts of the ground can be targeted in this way depending on where their 'intelligence' suggests the fraud is being committed.
That system should not impact on decent, law abiding fans at all. It really isn't rocket science. It just requires a little strategic thought.
Too easy though and they don't have the satisfaction of alienating decent law abiding people.
So you still tackle the suspected person, but instead of just inside/outside the turnstile, sort of in private, you do it in the middle of a game, blocking other fan's views and cause a big fight ?
I don't think you've thought this through.
I actually said ....'and significant variances investigated afterwards or alternatively stewards can be instructed to target the relevant seats.
Given that I thought of it and posted it only in response to a question of what I'd do different from @suzisausage and yourself. My point is that there are feasible alternatives and with a bit of forethought the majority of law abiding fans do not need to be inconvenienced which would be a priority of mine if I was running the business.
RD has made a right mess of running the club which will end up costing him a lot of money - what he can't be accused of however is ripping fans off by raising ticket prices. That will be the topic for a future owner and future protests I'm sure. Its all good at the moment - the football is very good, the atmosphere is very good, the season ticket prices are very good. If you are border line under 18 or 11 or over 65 and are getting your knickers in a twist about having to carry a form of ID, then you need to get some real problems to get angry about. Personally, i haven't cheated the system but i can see why people have and do accept that a lot of those wouldn't have done so in the past and it is about RD. However, its understandable them clamping down on it now.
You maybe happy 'showing your papers' to self appointed authoritarians.
Members of my family fought (and died) in wars to save us from that kind of intrusion.
There is a principle of personal freedom here. We are too willing to follow corporate diktats regarding required papers, payment methods etc. It's about time we kicked back against unreasonable behaviour.
But people not paying the correct amount for their tickets are acting completely reasonably?
I have repeatedly said that if you catch fraudsters punish them but you do not do that by oppressing the law abiding majority in my opinion anyway.
Len, how do you catch them without checking ?
See above.
So an ID check is borderline totalitarian state but CCTV cameras checking ever seat is OK?
Also how would they know what the person in that seat should look like without some photo on record?
Or if the 17 year old they are filming who has just bought a ticket today and is sitting with their mates is 17 or the person who bought the ticket?
Just not practical at this level of football.
Where did I say that CCTV checking every seat is OK? I am against a surveillance society in principle.
However, given that seats are filmed anyway, to the best of my knowledge, then the pragmatic approach is to use the technology to minimise disruption to fans.
Does it matter what the person looks like providing the ticket has been paid for at the correct tariff which the database should confirm?
RD has made a right mess of running the club which will end up costing him a lot of money - what he can't be accused of however is ripping fans off by raising ticket prices. That will be the topic for a future owner and future protests I'm sure. Its all good at the moment - the football is very good, the atmosphere is very good, the season ticket prices are very good. If you are border line under 18 or 11 or over 65 and are getting your knickers in a twist about having to carry a form of ID, then you need to get some real problems to get angry about. Personally, i haven't cheated the system but i can see why people have and do accept that a lot of those wouldn't have done so in the past and it is about RD. However, its understandable them clamping down on it now.
You maybe happy 'showing your papers' to self appointed authoritarians.
Members of my family fought (and died) in wars to save us from that kind of intrusion.
There is a principle of personal freedom here. We are too willing to follow corporate diktats regarding required papers, payment methods etc. It's about time we kicked back against unreasonable behaviour.
But people not paying the correct amount for their tickets are acting completely reasonably?
I have repeatedly said that if you catch fraudsters punish them but you do not do that by oppressing the law abiding majority in my opinion anyway.
How do you propose they catch them?
Every seat is supposedly under video surveillance as I understand it. The database of tickets can be compared with actual occupants during matches and significant variances investigated afterwards or alternatively stewards can be instructed to target the relevant seats. For example if an under 11seat has an adult in it you send a steward in to investigate.
Different parts of the ground can be targeted in this way depending on where their 'intelligence' suggests the fraud is being committed.
That system should not impact on decent, law abiding fans at all. It really isn't rocket science. It just requires a little strategic thought.
Too easy though and they don't have the satisfaction of alienating decent law abiding people.
So you still tackle the suspected person, but instead of just inside/outside the turnstile, sort of in private, you do it in the middle of a game, blocking other fan's views and cause a big fight ?
I don't think you've thought this through.
I actually said ....'and significant variances investigated afterwards or alternatively stewards can be instructed to target the relevant seats.
Given that I thought of it and posted it only in response to a question of what I'd do different from @suzisausage and yourself. My point is that there are feasible alternatives and with a bit of forethought the majority of law abiding fans do not need to be inconvenienced which would be a priority of mine if I was running the business.
If the stewards have half a brain (here's hoping), they should only be challenging fans entering with a concession ticket or concession S/T, that don't look entitled.
So realistically this could be something like a couple of hundred fans out of 15,000.
Len, I seriously think you should bring some ID/copy ID because there is absolutely no way you look anything like your age.
I can't remember your age, but I do recall thinking you look at least 10 years younger.
It has been amended and now confirms it is about concession tickets & concession S/Ts. (Possibly by Olly after reading this thread.)
"Concession season ticket holders are also reminded to bring along appropriate identification alongside their season ticket. Any fan found to be using another individual's concession season ticket without informing the ticket office prior to any game will also risk having their ticket confiscated from them. If any concession season ticket holder wishes to assign their ticket to another individual, they will need to contact our ticket office with the name and age of the individual the wish to transfer the ticket to."
It’s me! I am sure of it, and totally clear that they read this site.
So,
Can you confirm that any change needs to be notified? Are emails OK? Will you acknowledge? I have sent at least 5 emails to the club over the last 12 months that have not had the courtesy of a reply, has something changed? I will be sending an email about a ticket tomorrow morning. Will your stewards have a copy?
Can you also confirm that babies and young children are required to notify you if their tickets are transferred and that their season ticket maybe confiscated and that they will be held responsible?
It it is just that I hate the little shit I take so if I can get his ticket taken off him that would be great.
There is another one and that should be a breeze as he is not able too talk yet so will not be able to defend himself!
reading through the thread I was thinking really do we all have to have ID and inform the club if we pass tickets on to someone in the same bracket or cheaper .
it scares me how rubbish some of these messages are and I failed English Language twice .
i have 4 sons who use 3 tickets , so the aggmin of letting the club know who’s coming etc would be proper pain in the arse (sounds like one of them is bunking in)
anyway after the horse has bolted they’re half getting the message out there , eventually they’ll get there
It has been amended and now confirms it is about concession tickets & concession S/Ts. (Possibly by Olly after reading this thread.)
"Concession season ticket holders are also reminded to bring along appropriate identification alongside their season ticket. Any fan found to be using another individual's concession season ticket without informing the ticket office prior to any game will also risk having their ticket confiscated from them. If any concession season ticket holder wishes to assign their ticket to another individual, they will need to contact our ticket office with the name and age of the individual the wish to transfer the ticket to."
Checking if grown men are getting in on £5 tickets is one thing and should be stopped, challenging a 17 year old about whether he has ID to prove his age seems OTT in my opinion.
Checking if grown men are getting in on £5 tickets is one thing and should be stopped, challenging a 17 year old about whether he has ID to prove his age seems OTT in my opinion.
The dilemma of course is that some teenagers look like adults. I've definitely seen "girls" and "boys" that you would be confident are say early 20's and it turns out they're 14. (That's my story and I'm sticking to it).
It’s all very OTT by the club. What does CatJnr do? Jumped through hoops this year as he’s moved from U18 to Student. Does he need to bring all the email proof of college enrolment or just ID to show he’s the named ticket holder?
Checking if grown men are getting in on £5 tickets is one thing and should be stopped, challenging a 17 year old about whether he has ID to prove his age seems OTT in my opinion.
The dilemma of course is that some teenagers look like adults. I've definitely seen "girls" and "boys" that you would be confident are say early 20's and it turns out they're 14. (That's my story and I'm sticking to it).
Doubt there are many that fall into that category and I guess I have less issues with an 18 year old getting in on an U18 ticket than a 45 year old getting in on an U10, but I take the point. Not much common sense in the world these days. Easier to challenge a teenager than a middle aged man.
It’s all very OTT by the club. What does CatJnr do? Jumped through hoops this year as he’s moved from U18 to Student. Does he need to bring all the email proof of college enrolment or just ID to show he’s the named ticket holder?
Checking if grown men are getting in on £5 tickets is one thing and should be stopped, challenging a 17 year old about whether he has ID to prove his age seems OTT in my opinion.
The dilemma of course is that some teenagers look like adults. I've definitely seen "girls" and "boys" that you would be confident are say early 20's and it turns out they're 14. (That's my story and I'm sticking to it).
Doubt there are many that fall into that category and I guess I have less issues with an 18 year old getting in on an U18 ticket than a 45 year old getting in on an U10, but I take the point. Not much common sense in the world these days. Easier to challenge a teenager than a middle aged man.
Agreed, but a similar thread was started by Baldybonce, due to his teenage son being challenged.
It’s all very OTT by the club. What does CatJnr do? Jumped through hoops this year as he’s moved from U18 to Student. Does he need to bring all the email proof of college enrolment or just ID to show he’s the named ticket holder?
It says ID.
I know, but it also talks about legible DOB. Student concessions are unusual as they could apply to a much wider age group. I would hope common sense would break out but.....
Even those who paid the right money may not sit in the right seat.
I wouldn’t fancy stewards coming into the stand mid match to check tickets of people around me as they chose to move back when the rain starts in the west stand or for whatever reason. Getting in the way of those ‘law abiding fans’ watching the match? That also wouldn’t be ok. And the club would again get pelters.
It is poor planning to issue this late on a Friday granted. But as Airman mentioned, with very few staff, and very little budget it’s not surprising it’s not been thought about in detail. Tomorrow should be an ‘intro’ and a reminder to attendees that in future they should bring ID but no one should have a ticket confiscated until comms have been properly communicated over a couple of home games.
The informing the club of someone else using an ST is going to be a right disaster. Assume you can email them to let them know?
The main problem is that the people In charge are out of their depth. But confiscating tickets of people in the correct pricing category is unenforceable nonsense and I have every confidence in the safety officer ignoring it if they tried.
Checking if grown men are getting in on £5 tickets is one thing and should be stopped, challenging a 17 year old about whether he has ID to prove his age seems OTT in my opinion.
The dilemma of course is that some teenagers look like adults. I've definitely seen "girls" and "boys" that you would be confident are say early 20's and it turns out they're 14. (That's my story and I'm sticking to it).
Doubt there are many that fall into that category and I guess I have less issues with an 18 year old getting in on an U18 ticket than a 45 year old getting in on an U10, but I take the point. Not much common sense in the world these days. Easier to challenge a teenager than a middle aged man.
Especially as an 18yr old may be quite legitimately have a concession ticket because of the cut off date for eligibility.
Who does know what date is applied to age before date?
I can’t see the cretinous twats they employ working that one out.
Even those who paid the right money may not sit in the right seat.
I wouldn’t fancy stewards coming into the stand mid match to check tickets of people around me as they chose to move back when the rain starts in the west stand or for whatever reason. Getting in the way of those ‘law abiding fans’ watching the match? That also wouldn’t be ok. And the club would again get pelters.
It is poor planning to issue this late on a Friday granted. But as Airman mentioned, with very few staff, and very little budget it’s not surprising it’s not been thought about in detail. Tomorrow should be an ‘intro’ and a reminder to attendees that in future they should bring ID but no one should have a ticket confiscated until comms have been properly communicated over a couple of home games.
The informing the club of someone else using an ST is going to be a right disaster. Assume you can email them to let them know?
The main problem is that the people In charge are out of their depth. But confiscating tickets of people in the correct pricing category is unenforceable nonsense and I have every confidence in the safety officer ignoring it if they tried.
Supporters purchasing concession tickets should be aware that ID checks will be in place for those who may appear close to, or outside, the relevant age groups.
Appropriate identification includes a driving license, passport or any other photographic ID that shows date of birth. The club will also accept a copy/photograph of these documents provided the date of birth is clearly legible.
At Wednesday’s game, against Nottingham Forest, the club carried out checks in the Covered End and had to confiscate 37 concession tickets, a large proportion of which were adults who had purchased U11 tickets.
The club will continue to take steps to make fans aware of the heightened concession controls that they will face upon entering the stadium. These include adding a note on all confirmation emails, updating the ticketing terms and conditions, making it clear on all physical tickets and in articles on the club website.
Season ticket holders are also reminded to bring along appropriate identification alongside their season ticket if challenged. Any fan found to be using another individuals season ticket without informing the ticket office prior to any game will also have their ticket confiscated from them. If any season ticket holder wishes to assign their ticket to another individual, they will need to contact our ticket office with the name and age of the individual the wish to transfer the ticket to.
If you have any questions about the controls or wish to know what qualifies as ID, please contact our ticket office by emailing tickets@cafc.co.uk or calling on 03330 14 44 44.
I think the club will find that you cannot change the terms and conditions of a sale unilaterally after a sale has taken place, I.e. season tickets have been sold on the existing Ts and Cs and inventing new ones now has no effect on those sold. Just a guess.
Supporters purchasing concession tickets should be aware that ID checks will be in place for those who may appear close to, or outside, the relevant age groups.
Appropriate identification includes a driving license, passport or any other photographic ID that shows date of birth. The club will also accept a copy/photograph of these documents provided the date of birth is clearly legible.
At Wednesday’s game, against Nottingham Forest, the club carried out checks in the Covered End and had to confiscate 37 concession tickets, a large proportion of which were adults who had purchased U11 tickets.
The club will continue to take steps to make fans aware of the heightened concession controls that they will face upon entering the stadium. These include adding a note on all confirmation emails, updating the ticketing terms and conditions, making it clear on all physical tickets and in articles on the club website.
Season ticket holders are also reminded to bring along appropriate identification alongside their season ticket if challenged. Any fan found to be using another individuals season ticket without informing the ticket office prior to any game will also have their ticket confiscated from them. If any season ticket holder wishes to assign their ticket to another individual, they will need to contact our ticket office with the name and age of the individual the wish to transfer the ticket to.
If you have any questions about the controls or wish to know what qualifies as ID, please contact our ticket office by emailing tickets@cafc.co.uk or calling on 03330 14 44 44.
I think the club will find that you cannot change the terms and conditions of a sale unilaterally after a sale has taken place, I.e. season tickets have been sold on the existing Ts and Cs and inventing new ones now has no effect on those sold. Just a guess.
I'm hardly a club apologist, but if you buy a concession ticket anywhere - whether football, theatre, cinema, etc. - that you're not entitled to, it's your risk if you find the ticket worthless when you try to get in.
Proof of age requirement for season tickets was in the Ts & Cs when I was a holder, and I've not bought one for at least 3 years. Let's be real, the only point at which the club can enforce proof of age is at the point of use - a 40 year old can happily buy a drink in a pub, but risks the drink being taken away if he then gives it to his 15 year old.
Let's put it this way - do we honestly think a court would decide that the club was in breach of its agreed conditions of sale for checking that the grey haired, pot-bellied, balding gentlemen really was under 11?
Bottom line, people do it because they've been able to get away with it - enforcing it has always and always will be at the club's discretion. Pick your battles, this one doesn't have legs.
I buy a student ticket and have a valid student card.
The issue is I had to go through right load of faff to send them a photo of my student card and get it linked to my account to even allow me to buy the student tickets on the website. If I buy for a friend either they have to buy separately (so the club gets the booking fee twice) or they have to get an adult ticket coz the website wint let me buy 2 student tickets.
I don't tend to carry my student card round with me as i thought I'd already jumped through their hoops.
Student friend of mine going today, first ever Charlton match, wasn't able buy a student-priced ticket online. No prompts on the site about how to buy a student-priced ticket. So he gave up and paid £27 instead of the advertised £18. He is a prime candidate to become a supporter for life but given the abysmal first interaction with the club that possibility is on the back foot before he's even seen a ball kicked.
Comments
I wouldn’t fancy stewards coming into the stand mid match to check tickets of people around me as they chose to move back when the rain starts in the west stand or for whatever reason. Getting in the way of those ‘law abiding fans’ watching the match? That also wouldn’t be ok. And the club would again get pelters.
It is poor planning to issue this late on a Friday granted. But as Airman mentioned, with very few staff, and very little budget it’s not surprising it’s not been thought about in detail. Tomorrow should be an ‘intro’ and a reminder to attendees that in future they should bring ID but no one should have a ticket confiscated until comms have been properly communicated over a couple of home games.
The informing the club of someone else using an ST is going to be a right disaster. Assume you can email them to let them know?
Also how would they know what the person in that seat should look like without some photo on record?
Or if the 17 year old they are filming who has just bought a ticket today and is sitting with their mates is 17 or the person who bought the ticket?
Just not practical at this level of football.
(Possibly by Olly after reading this thread.)
"Concession season ticket holders are also reminded to bring along appropriate identification alongside their season ticket. Any fan found to be using another individual's concession season ticket without informing the ticket office prior to any game will also risk having their ticket confiscated from them. If any concession season ticket holder wishes to assign their ticket to another individual, they will need to contact our ticket office with the name and age of the individual the wish to transfer the ticket to."
https://www.cafc.co.uk/news/view/5d60091519eda/advice-for-fans-purchasing-concession-tickets-to-games-at-the-valley
Given that I thought of it and posted it only in response to a question of what I'd do different from @suzisausage and yourself. My point is that there are feasible alternatives and with a bit of forethought the majority of law abiding fans do not need to be inconvenienced which would be a priority of mine if I was running the business.
What will the ticket office then do? How will it be relayed to stewards and how will they check? Total farce... And... somewhat unnecessary
Eh?!?? Big Tone at it again, I guess.
However, given that seats are filmed anyway, to the best of my knowledge, then the pragmatic approach is to use the technology to minimise disruption to fans.
Does it matter what the person looks like providing the ticket has been paid for at the correct tariff which the database should confirm?
So realistically this could be something like a couple of hundred fans out of 15,000.
Len, I seriously think you should bring some ID/copy ID because there is absolutely no way you look anything like your age.
I can't remember your age, but I do recall thinking you look at least 10 years younger.
So,
Can you confirm that any change needs to be notified? Are emails OK? Will you acknowledge? I have sent at least 5 emails to the club over the last 12 months that have not had the courtesy of a reply, has something changed? I will be sending an email about a ticket tomorrow morning. Will your stewards have a copy?
Can you also confirm that babies and young children are required to notify you if their tickets are transferred and that their season ticket maybe confiscated and that they will be held responsible?
It it is just that I hate the little shit I take so if I can get his ticket taken off him that would be great.
There is another one and that should be a breeze as he is not able too talk yet so will not be able to defend himself!
reading through the thread I was thinking really do we all have to have ID and inform the club if we pass tickets on to someone in the same bracket or cheaper .
it scares me how rubbish some of these messages are and I failed English Language twice .
i have 4 sons who use 3 tickets , so the aggmin of letting the club know who’s coming etc would be proper pain in the arse (sounds like one of them is bunking in)
anyway after the horse has bolted they’re half getting the message out there , eventually they’ll get there
Still a lot of faff that it seems other clubs don't need to bother with.
I wonder what (who) has created the "unique" situation at Charlton which has lead to this.
Can't wait til Roland has gone and I allow myself to buy a ST, personally.
I've definitely seen "girls" and "boys" that you would be confident are say early 20's and it turns out they're 14.
(That's my story and I'm sticking to it).
I reckon we'll get close to 20,000 tomorrow.
Who does know what date is applied to age before date?
I can’t see the cretinous twats they employ working that one out.
Proof of age requirement for season tickets was in the Ts & Cs when I was a holder, and I've not bought one for at least 3 years. Let's be real, the only point at which the club can enforce proof of age is at the point of use - a 40 year old can happily buy a drink in a pub, but risks the drink being taken away if he then gives it to his 15 year old.
Let's put it this way - do we honestly think a court would decide that the club was in breach of its agreed conditions of sale for checking that the grey haired, pot-bellied, balding gentlemen really was under 11?
Bottom line, people do it because they've been able to get away with it - enforcing it has always and always will be at the club's discretion. Pick your battles, this one doesn't have legs.
Once again shit communication from a shit administration. When will they learn.