This cock up is entirely down to the officials. VAR has always been contentious but line decisions should never be wrong.
This.
VAR wasn't at fault. The officials were. All of them. Even the onfield ref should ask "is that a goal ?". In rugby I believe the onfield ref says "is there any reason why I can't give the try ?" Make the negative a positive & vice versa.
This cock up is entirely down to the officials. VAR has always been contentious but line decisions should never be wrong.
This.
VAR wasn't at fault. The officials were. All of them. Even the onfield ref should ask "is that a goal ?". In rugby I believe the onfield ref says "is there any reason why I can't give the try ?" Make the negative a positive & vice versa.
No penalty for Brentford? Bloke closes down the keeper, nicks it off his toe, keeper kicks him. No VAR intervention.
Anyone got a view as to why?
because it's a shit system that has totally ruined the game wherever it is implemented - the only benefit to us being in this poxy league is no VAR & to be honest if it's introduced then I m done - hate it
Var is very debatable,but the technology is not at fault,there were probably 10000 70-80 year olds with dodgy eyesight watching the Liverpool game who could see from the start the goal was not off side.How do highly trained officials get it wrong,when they can look at it a dozen times,its pathetic.
If that is the case why couldn't the VAR guy have alerted the ref immediately on the restart of play when it was immediately clear that a free kick had been given for offside rather than the goal- it would have taken seconds to resolve and correct it - they are in constant communication with the ref no? Yes it would have made VAR look a bit bad in the short term, but to just Bury your head in the sand and refuse to immediately correct the error is so much worse
Supposedly, it's in the laws that once the decision is made and match is restarted, they can't go back and correct it. Seems a silly law to implement but I doubt they ever accounted for this level of incompetence.
Because the onfield decision was offside and the VAR "confirmed" it, the ball was already in position for the resulting free kick and they only a couple of seconds window by which time the bloke doing VAR wouldn't have been able to react quickly enough to pull it back.
Overall a 100% complete and utter shambles of communication.
So the goal is effectively confirmed by var but the ref mistakenly restarts the game with a free kick instead of a kick from the centre circle.
Small error by the ref but doesn't affect the result which should be corrected to 2 - 2.
Think that Liverpool should pursue this. Most non football supporters would see it this way.
If that is the case why couldn't the VAR guy have alerted the ref immediately on the restart of play when it was immediately clear that a free kick had been given for offside rather than the goal- it would have taken seconds to resolve and correct it - they are in constant communication with the ref no? Yes it would have made VAR look a bit bad in the short term, but to just Bury your head in the sand and refuse to immediately correct the error is so much worse
Supposedly, it's in the laws that once the decision is made and match is restarted, they can't go back and correct it. Seems a silly law to implement but I doubt they ever accounted for this level of incompetence.
Because the onfield decision was offside and the VAR "confirmed" it, the ball was already in position for the resulting free kick and they only a couple of seconds window by which time the bloke doing VAR wouldn't have been able to react quickly enough to pull it back.
Overall a 100% complete and utter shambles of communication.
So the goal is effectively confirmed by var but the ref mistakenly restarts the game with a free kick instead of a kick from the centre circle.
Small error by the ref but doesn't affect the result which should be corrected to 2 - 2.
Think that Liverpool should pursue this. Most non football supporters would see it this way.
Or alternatively f*ck off VAR which has simply not done what it was supposed to do - eradicate errors. There were errors before, there are errors now - the only difference is we now debate shit refs and shit VAR instead of just shit refs, at the same time as having the nonsense spectacle of having to wait minutes until a toenail is deemed ahead of play.
If that is the case why couldn't the VAR guy have alerted the ref immediately on the restart of play when it was immediately clear that a free kick had been given for offside rather than the goal- it would have taken seconds to resolve and correct it - they are in constant communication with the ref no? Yes it would have made VAR look a bit bad in the short term, but to just Bury your head in the sand and refuse to immediately correct the error is so much worse
Supposedly, it's in the laws that once the decision is made and match is restarted, they can't go back and correct it. Seems a silly law to implement but I doubt they ever accounted for this level of incompetence.
Because the onfield decision was offside and the VAR "confirmed" it, the ball was already in position for the resulting free kick and they only a couple of seconds window by which time the bloke doing VAR wouldn't have been able to react quickly enough to pull it back.
Overall a 100% complete and utter shambles of communication.
One day that kind of decision will cost a club like us promotion.
That's why it is important to have this conversation now.
We are not having a conversation. You are shouting that VAR would be fantastic if it were implemented properly (even though we have had it for four years and it's still not right). And we are hollering that it will never be any good, because it is still prone to error.
You are not going to change your mind, and neither am I, until it is used for every single decision, as I have explained multiple times.
A wrongly awarded corner could cost a club like us promotion. No VAR there. Why should one team gain an advantage because the official's cock up came within the remit of VAR, but another be told to suck it up because it didn't?
If that is the case why couldn't the VAR guy have alerted the ref immediately on the restart of play when it was immediately clear that a free kick had been given for offside rather than the goal- it would have taken seconds to resolve and correct it - they are in constant communication with the ref no? Yes it would have made VAR look a bit bad in the short term, but to just Bury your head in the sand and refuse to immediately correct the error is so much worse
Supposedly, it's in the laws that once the decision is made and match is restarted, they can't go back and correct it. Seems a silly law to implement but I doubt they ever accounted for this level of incompetence.
Because the onfield decision was offside and the VAR "confirmed" it, the ball was already in position for the resulting free kick and they only a couple of seconds window by which time the bloke doing VAR wouldn't have been able to react quickly enough to pull it back.
Overall a 100% complete and utter shambles of communication.
One day that kind of decision will cost a club like us promotion.
That's why it is important to have this conversation now.
We are not having a conversation. You are shouting that VAR would be fantastic if it were implemented properly (even though we have had it for four years and it's still not right). And we are hollering that it will never be any good, because it is still prone to error.
You are not going to change your mind, and neither am I, until it is used for every single decision, as I have explained multiple times.
A wrongly awarded corner could cost a club like us promotion. No VAR there. Why should one team gain an advantage because the official's cock up came within the remit of VAR, but another be told to suck it up because it didn't?
……or at the other end of the table… a wrongly awarded throw in arguably DID cost us relegation.
I totally agree with everything you have said here.
If that is the case why couldn't the VAR guy have alerted the ref immediately on the restart of play when it was immediately clear that a free kick had been given for offside rather than the goal- it would have taken seconds to resolve and correct it - they are in constant communication with the ref no? Yes it would have made VAR look a bit bad in the short term, but to just Bury your head in the sand and refuse to immediately correct the error is so much worse
Supposedly, it's in the laws that once the decision is made and match is restarted, they can't go back and correct it. Seems a silly law to implement but I doubt they ever accounted for this level of incompetence.
Because the onfield decision was offside and the VAR "confirmed" it, the ball was already in position for the resulting free kick and they only a couple of seconds window by which time the bloke doing VAR wouldn't have been able to react quickly enough to pull it back.
Overall a 100% complete and utter shambles of communication.
One day that kind of decision will cost a club like us promotion.
That's why it is important to have this conversation now.
We are not having a conversation. You are shouting that VAR would be fantastic if it were implemented properly (even though we have had it for four years and it's still not right). And we are hollering that it will never be any good, because it is still prone to error.
You are not going to change your mind, and neither am I, until it is used for every single decision, as I have explained multiple times.
A wrongly awarded corner could cost a club like us promotion. No VAR there. Why should one team gain an advantage because the official's cock up came within the remit of VAR, but another be told to suck it up because it didn't?
……or at the other end of the table… a wrongly awarded throw in arguably DID cost us relegation.
I totally agree with everything you have said here.
That was a shit decision but we got relegated because we weren't good enough over 38 games. Had that happened earlier in the season it would have been lost in the memory, as were the incorrect decisions that went in our favour (don't ask me to name any!).
I appreciate I may be in the minority but I take quite a detached view on the impact of bad decisions. It's football - no-one died...
If that is the case why couldn't the VAR guy have alerted the ref immediately on the restart of play when it was immediately clear that a free kick had been given for offside rather than the goal- it would have taken seconds to resolve and correct it - they are in constant communication with the ref no? Yes it would have made VAR look a bit bad in the short term, but to just Bury your head in the sand and refuse to immediately correct the error is so much worse
Supposedly, it's in the laws that once the decision is made and match is restarted, they can't go back and correct it. Seems a silly law to implement but I doubt they ever accounted for this level of incompetence.
Because the onfield decision was offside and the VAR "confirmed" it, the ball was already in position for the resulting free kick and they only a couple of seconds window by which time the bloke doing VAR wouldn't have been able to react quickly enough to pull it back.
Overall a 100% complete and utter shambles of communication.
One day that kind of decision will cost a club like us promotion.
That's why it is important to have this conversation now.
We are not having a conversation. You are shouting that VAR would be fantastic if it were implemented properly (even though we have had it for four years and it's still not right). And we are hollering that it will never be any good, because it is still prone to error.
You are not going to change your mind, and neither am I, until it is used for every single decision, as I have explained multiple times.
A wrongly awarded corner could cost a club like us promotion. No VAR there. Why should one team gain an advantage because the official's cock up came within the remit of VAR, but another be told to suck it up because it didn't?
……or at the other end of the table… a wrongly awarded throw in arguably DID cost us relegation.
I totally agree with everything you have said here.
That was a shit decision but we got relegated because we weren't good enough over 38 games. Had that happened earlier in the season it would have been lost in the memory, as were the incorrect decisions that went in our favour (don't ask me to name any!).
I appreciate I may be in the minority but I take quite a detached view on the impact of bad decisions. It's football - no-one died...
I don’t think you are in the minority.
The hate VAR with a passion. It adds nothing to the game IMO.
Get rid of it and sort out the ridiculous laws that have been implemented over the years that make decision making so complex.
You can argue that had we had VAR in our recent championship year,we would have stayed up,Aneke good goal ruled out,Cullen penalty not given,this and a few others,referees actually apologised to Bowyer for the cock ups.
You can argue that had we had VAR in our recent championship year,we would have stayed up,Aneke good goal ruled out,Cullen penalty not given,this and a few others,referees actually apologised to Bowyer for the cock ups.
Was thinking the same myself... But would there have been a few extra decisions against us though - Genuinely don't remember.
The problem with officiating these football matches is the dismal quality of the officials themselves VAR adds more pairs of eyes watching the games on video stream with the capability to quickly rewind the video and review the action If those officials are just as lousy at their jobs as the 3 or 4 on the pitch officiating the game 'live' then the chances of improved outcomes are negligible TV companies were micro reviewing decisions with ultra super slo-mo just to ramp up the jeopardy and create bullshit scandal around the games in the pursuit of ratings and (FFS) "content" Football's authorities eventually screwed enough money out of the technology providers to "adopt the new technology". The narrative about improving the officiating was always a bare faced lie and everybody cheerfully swallowed it whole. It was only ever about money, sucking ever more lucre into the pockets of the already obscenely rich. The rulemakers didn't improve the standard of the officials so we now have all the same old "mistakes" amplified and with hours of naffing "content" devoted to the made up controversy. All that said Liverpool got absolutely bent over and rogered hard by those inept tossers on the field and their colleagues in their gold plated ivory tower.
I don't like agreeing with blowhard Shearer but he's dead right about the VAR berks having time to correct their unforgivable blunder with not knowing which decision they were confirming. If that's what happened then the system's patently inadequate. For the VAR berks to then keep schtum they are hopelessly inadequate and need a sight more than 'being stood down from their next match...' Their moronic chalking off of Liverpool's perfectly legitimate goal is compounded by their conduct of the review into Jones's tackle and ultimate red card. When the onfield ref was called over to the screen to review the yellow/red sanction for the foul the first thing he sees on screen is a still of the worst possible moment from the worst possible angle. There can only be one conclusion from that first impression. That is a blatant corruption of the game. We can argue all week long about Jones's tackle and whether it was red or yellow. Live at full speed and with a decent view the ref saw it as a yellow. Yes it was borderline. Another day, even just later in the same game, that ref sees that challenge and whips out a straight red, I don't think there'd be an outcry it was too harsh. The collision was mostly about the two players' momentum. Jones was over stretching, his foot rides up over the ball as Bissouma's challenge arrives a split second later. Jones wasn't giving it the full Sounness over the top studs up 'reducer' but that's almost how it ended up. For the VAR berks to present Hooper with that still image is unforgivable. What Hooper might have needed, if anything, was a full speed replay perhaps from one or two angles. Football is a full contact sport played by full grown strong athletes, collisions happen and people occasionally get hurt. VAR is supposed to tidy up line decisions, add in a few video lines to tidy up offside adjudications (FFS) and to fill in when referees miss things because they're unsighted, just occasionally to correct when they make blunders. As presented VAR is to correct "clear and obvious errors". Hooper's yellow card for that challenge wasn't a clear or obvious error. The challenge was careless, bordering on dangerous. Showing Hooper a still of the worst single frame distorted the whole issue. The notion that all the decisions will be perfect and uncontentious is fanciful, the game's too fast for that, perfect in its imperfections. The VAR berks are taking the opportunities to apply their own interpretation and influence and that corrupts the process. They take aeons of time to micro analyse some incidents but don't have the integrity to take an extra 5 seconds when they know they've dropped a bollock - that's wrong. Liverpool are dead right the integrity of the game has been undermined.
The Liverpool game was further spoilt by the Jota yellow cards. VAR is prohibited from intervening on yellow cards unless they see a clear and obvious error meaning it should have been a red (like they twisted it to with Jones) or in cases of mistaken identity. They're not allowed to intervene when in this case Hooper believed he saw Jota trip the opponent, when in fact they crossed paths the contact was minimal and accidental, the Spurs bloke tripped himself and made a meal of it. There's no defending Jota's stupid challenge moments later. However unjustified his first yellow, he has to have the brains to avoid a needless 2nd. He was tucked up by the 2nd spurs bloke who felt negligible contact and dived like he's been shot but they all con the refs all the time. A word from VAR to Hooper about the first one being a blunder and there's no problem but that's not currently allowed.
If Howard Webb feels obliged to comment on these cock ups he has to come up with something, anything, meaningful. Telling us again that the officials made mistakes is pointless. Then telling us a bit of what went on with 'check complete' still doesn't help. Standing the morons down for a game or two, doesn't help. Admitting that the people and the system are inadequate doesn't help but it would at least be honest.
Of course if Joel Matip doesn't crash the ball into the roof of the net in the 96th minute and Liverpool get away with a draw the tabloid histrionics wouldn't be half so melodramatic.
For my 2p worth if that point costs Liverpool a position come season's end then PGMOL owe Liverpool every penny of lost prize money. The sum total of their employees' inadequacy changed the outcome of the match and they have to stand accountable for that. Currently they have match changing power and no tangible accountability. One wrongly disallowed goal? Probably changes the outcome. One very harsh red card? Possibly changes the outcome. A wrongly disallowed goal and 2 highly contentious dismissals definitely corrupts the result. This wasn't players diving to cheat a penalty. This wasn't sneaky control with a hand. This wasn't a sly elbow or stamp. This was supposedly qualified experienced officials throwing out the rulebook and making it up as they went along and that definitely removes the integrity of the competition. Those same officials are jetting around the globe picking up fees for games all over, safe in the knowledge their money is safe regardless of how actually shit they are at their jobs - that's obviously wrong.
If that is the case why couldn't the VAR guy have alerted the ref immediately on the restart of play when it was immediately clear that a free kick had been given for offside rather than the goal- it would have taken seconds to resolve and correct it - they are in constant communication with the ref no? Yes it would have made VAR look a bit bad in the short term, but to just Bury your head in the sand and refuse to immediately correct the error is so much worse
Supposedly, it's in the laws that once the decision is made and match is restarted, they can't go back and correct it. Seems a silly law to implement but I doubt they ever accounted for this level of incompetence.
Because the onfield decision was offside and the VAR "confirmed" it, the ball was already in position for the resulting free kick and they only a couple of seconds window by which time the bloke doing VAR wouldn't have been able to react quickly enough to pull it back.
Overall a 100% complete and utter shambles of communication.
One day that kind of decision will cost a club like us promotion.
That's why it is important to have this conversation now.
We are not having a conversation. You are shouting that VAR would be fantastic if it were implemented properly (even though we have had it for four years and it's still not right). And we are hollering that it will never be any good, because it is still prone to error.
You are not going to change your mind, and neither am I, until it is used for every single decision, as I have explained multiple times.
A wrongly awarded corner could cost a club like us promotion. No VAR there. Why should one team gain an advantage because the official's cock up came within the remit of VAR, but another be told to suck it up because it didn't?
Uhhhh? I'm not shouting that VAR would be fantastic in fact I have said the complete opposite consistently on this thread. I think they should get rid.
Edit in fact, I've just had to re read this back again because I'm absolutely baffled that you think my position is literally the opposite of what I think and have made no secret of on here since word go! Bizarre
I think refereeing is a bloody difficult job (as I learnt in Sunday League when we often had no ref, and needed to take turns to do it). So I think they should receive technical help to make better decisions.
I don’t think anybody in the game has suggested VAR would eradicate bad decisions (or genuine mistakes) , they should aim to reduce them.
It seems to me that its the way VAR has been implemented in England that has raised the hackles so much. It’s bloated and cumbersome.
I dont know how it is done in other Euro leagues but I genuinely think the Czech league system - very much stripped down, because among other things they could not afford the bloated FAPL system - works better, and a game a week ago which I mentioned in another thread is a good example.
It is basically the ref being invited to review a key decision on a pitch side monitor. I’m not sure who invites him or how many people are watching the live video playback. But the end result is that the interruption time is much shorter and - crucially IMO - it is the ref’s decision which remains final.
The game last week was the Prague Slavia-Sparta derby which overall was a monstrous catalogue of bad behvaiour from the 1st minute. Slavia went a goal up esrly on and it stayed that way til near the end. By that time both captains and both coaches had red cards. Then comes 8mins of injury time. Sparta attack, a low cross is somehow diverted by a defender, they all scream for handball. On TV, I couldnt call it. Meanwhile Slavia break fast and with characteristic precision to make it 2-0 and wrap up the game. Except they haven’t. The ref has had a call on his earpiece and is reviewing the earlier incident. His decision, in a stadium beyond boiling point is to ignore the Slavia”goal” and instead bring the game back for a Sparta penalty, despatched in some style, and the game ends 1-1. Imagine if that had happened in a Liverpool -Man U game… but it seemed that everyone grudgingly accepted the ref’s decision (slo-mo seems to back him up) and there has been no controversy about it, and the fallout from the game has focused on the other 98 minutes which most fans considered an absolute disgrace.
So there we are. I’m for VAR. Just not this bloated English one where an entire crew of backroom refs exercise their primeval right to be very important.
The video assistant referee officials involved in wrongly disallowing a goal for Liverpool at Tottenham have not been selected for this weekend's Premier League games.
Darren England and assistant Dan Cook did not overrule on Saturday when Luis Diaz was wrongly flagged offside.
The on-field referee from that game, Simon Hooper, will be the VAR official for Bournemouth's trip to Everton.
Michael Oliver, who was the fourth official, will feature in two games.
Oliver will be VAR official for Luton's game against Tottenham on Saturday, before taking charge on the field for Arsenal's game against Manchester City on Sunday.
The video assistant referee officials involved in wrongly disallowing a goal for Liverpool at Tottenham have not been selected for this weekend's Premier League games.
Darren England and assistant Dan Cook did not overrule on Saturday when Luis Diaz was wrongly flagged offside.
The on-field referee from that game, Simon Hooper, will be the VAR official for Bournemouth's trip to Everton.
Michael Oliver, who was the fourth official, will feature in two games.
Oliver will be VAR official for Luton's game against Tottenham on Saturday, before taking charge on the field for Arsenal's game against Manchester City on Sunday.
It's crazy to think that two VAR refs missed that the flag had gone up. Darren England said check over because he could see it was clearly Onside and he thought he was confirming the goal 🤦🏻♂️
If the on field ref and the VAR spoke to each other in English not robotic jargon, then similar to the TMO in Rugby this gigantic cock up couldn't have happened.
VAR has been a success in goal line technology and is generally accepted as such. After Zidane felled an opponent in a World Cup that was not seen by the on field officials, the referee was told by the fourth official, there was an outcry for a better system. However they have concentrated on hand ball and offside and in some cases disregarded the wrestling in the penalty area and general foul play unless it is to scrutinise whether or not a red card is justified or not. There too many instances of personal opinions of VAR officials influencing games but line decisions should never be wrong.
Eeesh... that's brutal listening to - Sounds like they've
(1) Not thought to clarify what they're being asked (2) Rushed to get the decision dealt with as quickly as possible
What it does show, is the fact that we should be allowed to listen to this in game, every game - The wrong decision was made, but take that away, and thought it made a lot clearer, especially when they're looking at the Spurs / Liverpool players holding each other as well.
The VAR Official made a shocking mistake in not conveying the decision in the right way. Matip made a shocking mistake in putting the ball into his own net. If Liverpool lose the title on goal difference then both are culpable for that. The former has already been punished for their mistake. The other probably won't be. It's called human error.
The process was all wrong and is now being changed. Everyone should really now move on.
The released transcript makes no sense at all. No wonder they cocked up. All yeah, right etc etc. Need to use much clearer language so they all get it right.
at 57 seconds the VAR guy says "check complete, check complete, off."
Is he saying "off" as in mic off or off as in "offside??" No wonder the ref carried on.
instead of chatting like you are playing FIFA with your mates - just say "VAR decision: onside/offside" and then repeat it so it is clear. It ain't rocket science
The thing they could bring in from Rugby, is that they should know what the on field decision is, Hooper should be allowed to say ‘on field decision is offside no goal’ and then it’s clear to Stockley Park what they are trying to change
Comments
VAR wasn't at fault. The officials were. All of them. Even the onfield ref should ask "is that a goal ?". In rugby I believe the onfield ref says "is there any reason why I can't give the try ?" Make the negative a positive & vice versa.
Anyone got a view as to why?
how's that?
Small error by the ref but doesn't affect the result which should be corrected to 2 - 2.
Think that Liverpool should pursue this. Most non football supporters would see it this way.
You are not going to change your mind, and neither am I, until it is used for every single decision, as I have explained multiple times.
A wrongly awarded corner could cost a club like us promotion. No VAR there. Why should one team gain an advantage because the official's cock up came within the remit of VAR, but another be told to suck it up because it didn't?
I appreciate I may be in the minority but I take quite a detached view on the impact of bad decisions. It's football - no-one died...
Get rid of it and sort out the ridiculous laws that have been implemented over the years that make decision making so complex.
VAR adds more pairs of eyes watching the games on video stream with the capability to quickly rewind the video and review the action
If those officials are just as lousy at their jobs as the 3 or 4 on the pitch officiating the game 'live' then the chances of improved outcomes are negligible
TV companies were micro reviewing decisions with ultra super slo-mo just to ramp up the jeopardy and create bullshit scandal around the games in the pursuit of ratings and (FFS) "content"
Football's authorities eventually screwed enough money out of the technology providers to "adopt the new technology". The narrative about improving the officiating was always a bare faced lie and everybody cheerfully swallowed it whole. It was only ever about money, sucking ever more lucre into the pockets of the already obscenely rich.
The rulemakers didn't improve the standard of the officials so we now have all the same old "mistakes" amplified and with hours of naffing "content" devoted to the made up controversy.
All that said Liverpool got absolutely bent over and rogered hard by those inept tossers on the field and their colleagues in their gold plated ivory tower.
I don't like agreeing with blowhard Shearer but he's dead right about the VAR berks having time to correct their unforgivable blunder with not knowing which decision they were confirming.
If that's what happened then the system's patently inadequate. For the VAR berks to then keep schtum they are hopelessly inadequate and need a sight more than 'being stood down from their next match...'
Their moronic chalking off of Liverpool's perfectly legitimate goal is compounded by their conduct of the review into Jones's tackle and ultimate red card.
When the onfield ref was called over to the screen to review the yellow/red sanction for the foul the first thing he sees on screen is a still of the worst possible moment from the worst possible angle. There can only be one conclusion from that first impression.
That is a blatant corruption of the game.
We can argue all week long about Jones's tackle and whether it was red or yellow. Live at full speed and with a decent view the ref saw it as a yellow.
Yes it was borderline. Another day, even just later in the same game, that ref sees that challenge and whips out a straight red, I don't think there'd be an outcry it was too harsh.
The collision was mostly about the two players' momentum. Jones was over stretching, his foot rides up over the ball as Bissouma's challenge arrives a split second later.
Jones wasn't giving it the full Sounness over the top studs up 'reducer' but that's almost how it ended up.
For the VAR berks to present Hooper with that still image is unforgivable.
What Hooper might have needed, if anything, was a full speed replay perhaps from one or two angles.
Football is a full contact sport played by full grown strong athletes, collisions happen and people occasionally get hurt.
VAR is supposed to tidy up line decisions, add in a few video lines to tidy up offside adjudications (FFS) and to fill in when referees miss things because they're unsighted, just occasionally to correct when they make blunders.
As presented VAR is to correct "clear and obvious errors". Hooper's yellow card for that challenge wasn't a clear or obvious error. The challenge was careless, bordering on dangerous. Showing Hooper a still of the worst single frame distorted the whole issue.
The notion that all the decisions will be perfect and uncontentious is fanciful, the game's too fast for that, perfect in its imperfections.
The VAR berks are taking the opportunities to apply their own interpretation and influence and that corrupts the process. They take aeons of time to micro analyse some incidents but don't have the integrity to take an extra 5 seconds when they know they've dropped a bollock - that's wrong.
Liverpool are dead right the integrity of the game has been undermined.
The Liverpool game was further spoilt by the Jota yellow cards. VAR is prohibited from intervening on yellow cards unless they see a clear and obvious error meaning it should have been a red (like they twisted it to with Jones) or in cases of mistaken identity. They're not allowed to intervene when in this case Hooper believed he saw Jota trip the opponent, when in fact they crossed paths the contact was minimal and accidental, the Spurs bloke tripped himself and made a meal of it. There's no defending Jota's stupid challenge moments later. However unjustified his first yellow, he has to have the brains to avoid a needless 2nd. He was tucked up by the 2nd spurs bloke who felt negligible contact and dived like he's been shot but they all con the refs all the time. A word from VAR to Hooper about the first one being a blunder and there's no problem but that's not currently allowed.
If Howard Webb feels obliged to comment on these cock ups he has to come up with something, anything, meaningful. Telling us again that the officials made mistakes is pointless. Then telling us a bit of what went on with 'check complete' still doesn't help. Standing the morons down for a game or two, doesn't help. Admitting that the people and the system are inadequate doesn't help but it would at least be honest.
Of course if Joel Matip doesn't crash the ball into the roof of the net in the 96th minute and Liverpool get away with a draw the tabloid histrionics wouldn't be half so melodramatic.
For my 2p worth if that point costs Liverpool a position come season's end then PGMOL owe Liverpool every penny of lost prize money. The sum total of their employees' inadequacy changed the outcome of the match and they have to stand accountable for that. Currently they have match changing power and no tangible accountability.
One wrongly disallowed goal? Probably changes the outcome. One very harsh red card? Possibly changes the outcome. A wrongly disallowed goal and 2 highly contentious dismissals definitely corrupts the result. This wasn't players diving to cheat a penalty. This wasn't sneaky control with a hand. This wasn't a sly elbow or stamp. This was supposedly qualified experienced officials throwing out the rulebook and making it up as they went along and that definitely removes the integrity of the competition.
Those same officials are jetting around the globe picking up fees for games all over, safe in the knowledge their money is safe regardless of how actually shit they are at their jobs - that's obviously wrong.
Edit in fact, I've just had to re read this back again because I'm absolutely baffled that you think my position is literally the opposite of what I think and have made no secret of on here since word go! Bizarre
I think refereeing is a bloody difficult job (as I learnt in Sunday League when we often had no ref, and needed to take turns to do it). So I think they should receive technical help to make better decisions.
I don’t think anybody in the game has suggested VAR would eradicate bad decisions (or genuine mistakes) , they should aim to reduce them.
It is basically the ref being invited to review a key decision on a pitch side monitor. I’m not sure who invites him or how many people are watching the live video playback. But the end result is that the interruption time is much shorter and - crucially IMO - it is the ref’s decision which remains final.
The game last week was the Prague Slavia-Sparta derby which overall was a monstrous catalogue of bad behvaiour from the 1st minute. Slavia went a goal up esrly on and it stayed that way til near the end. By that time both captains and both coaches had red cards. Then comes 8mins of injury time. Sparta attack, a low cross is somehow diverted by a defender, they all scream for handball. On TV, I couldnt call it. Meanwhile Slavia break fast and with characteristic precision to make it 2-0 and wrap up the game. Except they haven’t. The ref has had a call on his earpiece and is reviewing the earlier incident. His decision, in a stadium beyond boiling point is to ignore the Slavia”goal” and instead bring the game back for a Sparta penalty, despatched in some style, and the game ends 1-1. Imagine if that had happened in a Liverpool -Man U game… but it seemed that everyone grudgingly accepted the ref’s decision (slo-mo seems to back him up) and there has been no controversy about it, and the fallout from the game has focused on the other 98 minutes which most fans considered an absolute disgrace.
So there we are. I’m for VAR. Just not this bloated English one where an entire crew of backroom refs exercise their primeval right to be very important.
The video assistant referee officials involved in wrongly disallowing a goal for Liverpool at Tottenham have not been selected for this weekend's Premier League games.
Darren England and assistant Dan Cook did not overrule on Saturday when Luis Diaz was wrongly flagged offside.
The on-field referee from that game, Simon Hooper, will be the VAR official for Bournemouth's trip to Everton.
Michael Oliver, who was the fourth official, will feature in two games.
Oliver will be VAR official for Luton's game against Tottenham on Saturday, before taking charge on the field for Arsenal's game against Manchester City on Sunday.
It's crazy to think that two VAR refs missed that the flag had gone up. Darren England said check over because he could see it was clearly Onside and he thought he was confirming the goal 🤦🏻♂️
If the on field ref and the VAR spoke to each other in English not robotic jargon, then similar to the TMO in Rugby this gigantic cock up couldn't have happened.
There too many instances of personal opinions of VAR officials influencing games but line decisions should never be wrong.
(1) Not thought to clarify what they're being asked
(2) Rushed to get the decision dealt with as quickly as possible
What it does show, is the fact that we should be allowed to listen to this in game, every game - The wrong decision was made, but take that away, and thought it made a lot clearer, especially when they're looking at the Spurs / Liverpool players holding each other as well.
The process was all wrong and is now being changed. Everyone should really now move on.
Is he saying "off" as in mic off or off as in "offside??" No wonder the ref carried on.
instead of chatting like you are playing FIFA with your mates - just say "VAR decision: onside/offside" and then repeat it so it is clear. It ain't rocket science
is that they should know what the on field decision is, Hooper should be allowed to say ‘on field decision is offside no goal’ and then it’s clear to Stockley Park what they are trying to change