I used to be a supporter of the idea of VAR but I would now prefer it scrapped, as all it has done is exposed how poor the refs are, can have all the working technology in the world but games still getting changed by their mistakes as they were before any of us ever heard of VAR.
If the officials are incapable of doing a decent job then we might as well just go back to the quicker decision process.
I actually think its made it more difficult for refs and linesman who were actually pretty good before they had big brother watching them.
Let them just make on field decisions in real time.
And lets go back to putting the flag up if the player is offside at the point where the ball is played, rather than the current nonsense.
There was always a fear that VAR might change referees behaviour and would prefer not to make big calls and leave it up to VAR.
I think this is creeping in a bit now and we have VAR "correcting" decisions the ref never made in the first place!
I think it's just showed up the complete lack of quality and consistency from 'qualified' refereees. Even with the aid of replays and slow motion.
More unbelievable VAR decisions in the Fulham game, particularly the last penalty. It's getting very dull now, players seem more interested in winning a penalty than playing to score normally. Can't help but think it'd be so much better if we just scraped it
More unbelievable VAR decisions in the Fulham game, particularly the last penalty. It's getting very dull now, players seem more interested in winning a penalty than playing to score normally. Can't help but think it'd be so much better if we just scraped it
Wait until you got a 5 minute wait for VAR to decide if its a goal kick or corner kick
Meeting in London tomorrow apparently about VAR developments and one of the things on the agenda is if they should include, 2nd Yelllows, Free Kicks and Corners
That’s probably 5 of the worst 7 or 8 VAR decisions this season that have gone against Wolves. We were told at the start of the season that contact doesn’t necessarily mean a penalty and they would be applying that approach, but apparently that hasn’t happened and I’m not sure there was contact anyway in at least two of the decisions against Wolves this season.
It isn’t going to be scrapped so it is pointless saying that. Not that it’s any comfort to Wolves but if you want to see really bad VAR, watch the highlights of the Scottish Premier League any week
What they need to scrap as a priority is the ref being asked to look at a screen. Every time the ref changes his decision and having seen the so called penalty this morning, I think if the ref gives a pen he gets asked to look at it and says it isn't a pen and as he didn't give a pen, he got asked to look at it and gave it. This is ridiculous and frustrating and makes football a laughing stock. A simple solution to this particular problem would be to get rid of the pitch side screen and give the VAR room the ability to change the on pitch decision if there is a clear and obvious error. Last nights would not have been changed in those circumstances.
What we have to take into consideration is that there will often be a lttle doubt in the mind of the ref on many calls and a full stadium baying for decisions can influence the poorer ones. By all accounts the ref last night had a good reputation but that pressure becomes much higher when he gets a voice in his ear saying you might want to look at that decision again.
When they introduce Sin Bins for tactical fouls etc as muted,I fully expect to be able to get home just in time for Match of the Day. What a farce, sort bloody VAR out first. Sin bins my god, players will have to do hundred lines next.
The man appointed to lead England's top referees 12 months ago - with a pledge to be open and to "pull back the curtain" on officiating in the Premier League - has been in the headlines more often than he would like.
There are positives, not least with the announcement that Rebecca Welch will become the Premier League's first female referee and Sam Allison the first black referee in the top flight since Uriah Rennie in 2008.
Arguably worst of all was the video assistant referee (VAR) ruling out a Luis Diaz goal for Liverpool against Spurs - an incident that sparked weeks of debate.
Webb sat down with BBC Sport at Stockley Park and spoke about the refereeing world as he sees it.
Do you dread weekends?
"Of course not. Most games pass smoothly and the officials do a really good job. They are all highly trained professionals doing a challenging job they are well prepared for.
"It's not just the matches on Match of the Day. We have games to deliver in the Premier League, EFL, Women's Super League and Women's Championship. Across all those games there are going to be talking points and situations that split opinion.
"There will be some errors and they are the ones we can learn from. I look forward to every weekend. It is a challenging role but one I relish and get a lot of satisfaction from."
Some say standards are worse than they have ever been - do you agree?
"I don't agree with that. People can have a fond recollection of the past. The game is spoken about and scrutinised more and is probably less forgiving than ever. That factors into people's perceptions.
"There have been errors that live large. We have to accept that. I always hold my hands up if I get something wrong. Over time, you work to reduce them. But the reality is pretty positive.
"Some of the initiatives in place through extra investment take some time to permeate through. We have seen officials come out of the development group taking charge of their first Premier League games. That is happening at every level."
What are your thoughts on the attack on a referee in Turkey?
A referee was punched to the ground by a club president during a top-flight match. MKE Ankaragucu president Faruk Koca was later arrested.
"The scenes were disgraceful. We should never, at any level, see that type of incident happen to any participant.
"It is indicative of a problem that exists in the game, where people feel they can challenge officials in a way that is not acceptable. We have seen over time a decline in certain types of behaviours towards officials.
"Just because you don't agree with a decision, that doesn't mean it is acceptable to behave in a wholly unacceptable way."
How are you trying to drive out dissent?
Bookings for dissent in the men's and women's professional game have increased by 88% so far this season. Both Brighton manager Roberto de Zerbi and Arsenal boss Mikel Arteta have avoided sanctions for publicly criticising referees.
"We have seen some real success in the way the participant charter - a set of measures to address issues of player, manager and fan behaviour - has been implemented in the English game.
"There has been a reduction in the number of times the referee has been surrounded and there has been confrontation between the participants and the officials. There is still work to do, and we have had to increase the number of cautions to get those positive outcomes.
"It takes time to change behaviours. We will keep doing it because of the events in Turkey and the need to have a positive direction of travel, not just this season, but for good.
"That is the only way we can set a really strong and powerful example at grassroots level. We will not back down in that respect.
"We will keep drawing the curtain back on how decisions are made. That is what we can control. Comments by coaches and managers is something that is dealt with elsewhere."
Should we get rid of VAR?
"It would be foolish to take away a tool that can remove clear errors from the game - almost 40 this season.
"Usually we have seen around 100 situations rectified through the use of VAR. Why would you want to take that away and leave those errors in the game?
"We are always looking for ways we can improve the use of it, through consistent application in the subjective world that football is and the enhanced use of technology.
"I understand delays can cause frustration but sometimes they are unavoidable when you are doing the job diligently.
"It protects the game from some clear errors and the thought of going into some big games without that facility there, I don't think many referees would want that."
I have gone from being a strong advocate of it to hoping it goes. I think it could be made to work but not by the incompetents who run the game.
I was a strong advocate of VAR but its turned into a band wagon monster. I don't think Howard Webb is incompetent as the top referee official but his remit is becoming impossible with VAR, as the majority of correct decisions are forgotten about while the bad VAR decisions are highlighted. If you don't like the hand balls being given against the attacking sides and goals disallowed, that is down to the rule makers; without VAR they could well be missed so again it depends on your alliance to a team or your betting slip !
If we had no VAR, the Simon Hooper play on, no stop ! Incident still happens with Man City and Palace get a Penalty against Liverpool because Andy Madley had to have his arm twisted by VAR to see the obvious foul by Will Hughes before the trip by Van Dijk.
If VAR goes the vitriol will just go back to the on-field referee.
"We are always looking for ways we can improve the use of it, through consistent application in the subjective world that football is and the enhanced use of technology.
"I understand delays can cause frustration but sometimes they are unavoidable when you are doing the job diligently.
Really don't know what to make of this. So we've got on field officials making decisions, VAR who can overrule those decisions and now a 3rd layer of people who can overrule VAR days later
It was bad enough that you have to wait to celebrate goals in case they're overturned but this is really taking the piss. You now can't even celebrate a result in case that's overturned. Time to scrap the lot
Really don't know what to make of this. So we've got on field officials making decisions, VAR who can overrule those decisions and now a 3rd layer of people who can overrule VAR days later
It was bad enough that you have to wait to celebrate goals in case they're overturned but this is really taking the piss. You now can't even celebrate a result in case that's overturned. Time to scrap the lot
It's always been possible to overrule a result if it can be shown that the referee did not know or understand the laws when he made a decision.
I seem to remember situations where referees made mistakes during penalty shootouts when they first became common. For instance, allowing the shooter to score from rebounds off the goalkeeper. Some refs genuinely believed this was permitted. Games where this happened were voided.
It's always been possible to overrule a result if it can be shown that the referee did not know or understand the laws when he made a decision.
I seem to remember situations where referees made mistakes during penalty shootouts when they first became common. For instance, allowing the shooter to score from rebounds off the goalkeeper. Some refs genuinely believed this was permitted. Games where this happened were voided.
How come that game at Selhurst when Moron Morton gave them a free kick in the area for a "backpass" (the season that rule came in) wasn't replayed then? He clearly didn't understand the law.
I genuinely have no recollection of this ever happening with penalty shoot outs, or otherwise.
I assume if the referee had made the wrong decison - VAR or no VAR - the same thing would apply?
Can we have the Cambridge game replayed, the ref there clearly didn't know that a foul outside the area is not a penalty...
Comments
A goal is scored but then on the "spin of a wheel" it is wiped out.
One player is removed from one team randomly during the game.
This sort of tension is at the heart of successful game shows like "Tipping Point".
Can't help but think it'd be so much better if we just scraped it
Meeting in London tomorrow apparently about VAR developments and one of the things on the agenda is if they should include, 2nd Yelllows, Free Kicks and Corners
It isn’t going to be scrapped so it is pointless saying that. Not that it’s any comfort to Wolves but if you want to see really bad VAR, watch the highlights of the Scottish Premier League any week
What we have to take into consideration is that there will often be a lttle doubt in the mind of the ref on many calls and a full stadium baying for decisions can influence the poorer ones. By all accounts the ref last night had a good reputation but that pressure becomes much higher when he gets a voice in his ear saying you might want to look at that decision again.
So in the Premier League it is NOT handball if the ball strikes the chest first.
But in the Champions league it IS handball.
There needs, at least, to be fixed rules for football before we can even begin to sort out the horrors of VAR.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/24886857/adrian-chiles-var-football-advertising/
Its trying to add science where art is at play...
Howard Webb is a busy man.
The man appointed to lead England's top referees 12 months ago - with a pledge to be open and to "pull back the curtain" on officiating in the Premier League - has been in the headlines more often than he would like.
There are positives, not least with the announcement that Rebecca Welch will become the Premier League's first female referee and Sam Allison the first black referee in the top flight since Uriah Rennie in 2008.
But all too often, Webb is addressing awful mistakes. Mistakes like Manchester United keeper Andre Onana escaping punishment despite punching Wolves striker Sasa Kalajzdic on the opening weekend of the season. Mistakes like Simon Hooper not allowing Manchester City a clear advantage earlier this month against Tottenham.
Arguably worst of all was the video assistant referee (VAR) ruling out a Luis Diaz goal for Liverpool against Spurs - an incident that sparked weeks of debate.
Webb sat down with BBC Sport at Stockley Park and spoke about the refereeing world as he sees it.
Do you dread weekends?
"Of course not. Most games pass smoothly and the officials do a really good job. They are all highly trained professionals doing a challenging job they are well prepared for.
"It's not just the matches on Match of the Day. We have games to deliver in the Premier League, EFL, Women's Super League and Women's Championship. Across all those games there are going to be talking points and situations that split opinion.
"There will be some errors and they are the ones we can learn from. I look forward to every weekend. It is a challenging role but one I relish and get a lot of satisfaction from."
Some say standards are worse than they have ever been - do you agree?
"I don't agree with that. People can have a fond recollection of the past. The game is spoken about and scrutinised more and is probably less forgiving than ever. That factors into people's perceptions.
"There have been errors that live large. We have to accept that. I always hold my hands up if I get something wrong. Over time, you work to reduce them. But the reality is pretty positive.
"Some of the initiatives in place through extra investment take some time to permeate through. We have seen officials come out of the development group taking charge of their first Premier League games. That is happening at every level."
What are your thoughts on the attack on a referee in Turkey?
A referee was punched to the ground by a club president during a top-flight match. MKE Ankaragucu president Faruk Koca was later arrested.
"The scenes were disgraceful. We should never, at any level, see that type of incident happen to any participant.
"It is indicative of a problem that exists in the game, where people feel they can challenge officials in a way that is not acceptable. We have seen over time a decline in certain types of behaviours towards officials.
"Just because you don't agree with a decision, that doesn't mean it is acceptable to behave in a wholly unacceptable way."
How are you trying to drive out dissent?
Bookings for dissent in the men's and women's professional game have increased by 88% so far this season. Both Brighton manager Roberto de Zerbi and Arsenal boss Mikel Arteta have avoided sanctions for publicly criticising referees.
"We have seen some real success in the way the participant charter - a set of measures to address issues of player, manager and fan behaviour - has been implemented in the English game.
"There has been a reduction in the number of times the referee has been surrounded and there has been confrontation between the participants and the officials. There is still work to do, and we have had to increase the number of cautions to get those positive outcomes.
"It takes time to change behaviours. We will keep doing it because of the events in Turkey and the need to have a positive direction of travel, not just this season, but for good.
"That is the only way we can set a really strong and powerful example at grassroots level. We will not back down in that respect.
"We will keep drawing the curtain back on how decisions are made. That is what we can control. Comments by coaches and managers is something that is dealt with elsewhere."
Should we get rid of VAR?
"It would be foolish to take away a tool that can remove clear errors from the game - almost 40 this season.
"Usually we have seen around 100 situations rectified through the use of VAR. Why would you want to take that away and leave those errors in the game?
"We are always looking for ways we can improve the use of it, through consistent application in the subjective world that football is and the enhanced use of technology.
"I understand delays can cause frustration but sometimes they are unavoidable when you are doing the job diligently.
"It protects the game from some clear errors and the thought of going into some big games without that facility there, I don't think many referees would want that."
I was a strong advocate of VAR but its turned into a band wagon monster.
I don't think Howard Webb is incompetent as the top referee official but his remit is becoming impossible with VAR, as the majority of correct decisions are forgotten about while the bad VAR decisions are highlighted.
If you don't like the hand balls being given against the attacking sides and goals disallowed, that is down to the rule makers; without VAR they could well be missed so again it depends on your alliance to a team or your betting slip !
If we had no VAR, the Simon Hooper play on, no stop ! Incident still happens with Man City and Palace get a Penalty against Liverpool because Andy Madley had to have his arm twisted by VAR to see the obvious foul by Will Hughes before the trip by Van Dijk.
If VAR goes the vitriol will just go back to the on-field referee.
"We are always looking for ways we can improve the use of it, through consistent application in the subjective world that football is and the enhanced use of technology.
"I understand delays can cause frustration but sometimes they are unavoidable when you are doing the job diligently.
Really don't know what to make of this. So we've got on field officials making decisions, VAR who can overrule those decisions and now a 3rd layer of people who can overrule VAR days later
It was bad enough that you have to wait to celebrate goals in case they're overturned but this is really taking the piss. You now can't even celebrate a result in case that's overturned. Time to scrap the lot
I seem to remember situations where referees made mistakes during penalty shootouts when they first became common. For instance, allowing the shooter to score from rebounds off the goalkeeper. Some refs genuinely believed this was permitted. Games where this happened were voided.
I genuinely have no recollection of this ever happening with penalty shoot outs, or otherwise.
I assume if the referee had made the wrong decison - VAR or no VAR - the same thing would apply?
Can we have the Cambridge game replayed, the ref there clearly didn't know that a foul outside the area is not a penalty...
4 1/2 minutes to give a goal which was clearly a goal and which the ref gave as a goal in the wolves v coventry game. it's an absolute fucking joke