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Rochdale v Charlton post-match thread | Sat 27 Oct 2018|

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    LenGlover said:

    Really surprised that Bielik was subbed for tactical purposes. He was excellent at CB against Barnsley, should we have gone to 3 at the back if he wanted to keep Pratley at CB?

    I wasn't there so this is pure speculation but it sounds like the prima donna Arsenal loanee didn't fancy a cold day in Rochdale when taken in tandem with Bowyer's comments regarding the attitude of some of his players.
    I genuinely thought he was our best player in the first half.
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    LenGlover said:

    Really surprised that Bielik was subbed for tactical purposes. He was excellent at CB against Barnsley, should we have gone to 3 at the back if he wanted to keep Pratley at CB?

    I wasn't there so this is pure speculation but it sounds like the prima donna Arsenal loanee didn't fancy a cold day in Rochdale when taken in tandem with Bowyer's comments regarding the attitude of some of his players.
    Very surprised too. At least he strode forward with purpose and has strength and can dribble and pass with conviction unlike aribo did today. Definitely shouldn’t have been hauled off. Yes he lost it once or twice but he’s a victim of his own success in that he’s showing confidence and trying to make things happen. He definitely didn’t shirk a challenge and not use his strength so can’t really say he underestimated them. He actually challenged for the headers too.
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    Surprised at LB naming a player like that. Keep it behind closed doors. I actually thought Aribo and Cullen had v poor first halves - at least Bielik and Ward were getting on the ball and trying to make things happen.
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    Always a worrying sign for me when the manager is digging out players attitudes in the press. Whether it is correct or not it has happened a couple of times in the past few weeks and makes me think something is not quiet right behind the scenes.

    I agree , Bowyer has I think lost he's shit at half time in one our games this season (I can't remember which one) but digging players out to the press isn't going to go down well with the players themselves! Heads will go down etc
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    was due to go to this but thankfully a Friday 'emergency' meant I couldn't make it .. thank the lord, even though it meant I lost a hotel booking and the price of a ticket .. few observations from afar .. Taylor misses another pen .. I believe he's scored 2, missed 2 and Fosu scored 1 even though Taylor was on the pitch at the time .. sort it out ..
    Bielek .. I have got the right hump with us borrowing Arsenal players who just do not seem to want to play for us and get injured or possibly feign injury .. Bielik, if you don't wanna play for us, fuck off .. Solly at left back .. I've said enuf about this in the past .. sounds like a lacklustre performance all round .. too early to say but has Bowyer and his temper alienated some temperamental players ? .. Taylor plays too wide for most of the game .. we need a proper central striker, but who ? .. wasn't there so will say no more .. inconsistency will be our downfall
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    was due to go to this but thankfully a Friday 'emergency' meant I couldn't make it .. thank the lord, even though it meant I lost a hotel booking and the price of a ticket .. few observations from afar .. Taylor misses another pen .. I believe he's scored 2, missed 2 and Fosu scored 1 even though Taylor was on the pitch at the time .. sort it out ..
    Bielek .. I have got the right hump with us borrowing Arsenal players who just do not seem to want to play for us and get injured or possibly feign injury .. Bielik, if you don't wanna play for us, fuck off .. Solly at left back .. I've said enuf about this in the past .. sounds like a lacklustre performance all round .. too early to say but has Bowyer and his temper alienated some temperamental players ? .. Taylor plays too wide for most of the game .. we need a proper central striker, but who ? .. wasn't there so will say no more .. inconsistency will be our downfall

    This is what I think! Bowyer's temper has come to the faw! And it's not going down well at all! But sometimes the rollicking are needed but sometimes not!
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    Taking the owner away from this for a minute.
    Regardless we should be doing much better with what we have against sides like Rochdale.
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    If it's good enough for Man Utd it's good enough for us. I just feel sorry for those long suffering fans at Old Trafford.

    We are cursed to languish in mid table obscuritiy for eternity. However, agree with others that this squad which is 95% available should be performing a lot better than we are seeing. Every team will throwin the odd bummer, but we are shit every week now.
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    Charlton are missing Bauer & Page. It is a makeshift defence with a centre midfield filling in & right back filling in at left back. How do we get here ? Duchatelet sold Konsa & relied upon an injury prone left back with no cover. Bielick is an injury prone centre back & expensive waged 5th choice Sarr is a centre back, a potential calamatious mistake each game.

    A team builds from the back & having an unbalanced & shaky defence is not going to help the rest of the team.

    For the strikers, from what I have seen Grant is League 2 standard. Ajose has good effort but is not a regular scorer & Vetekele never recovered the standard he played after being forced to play whilst injured under Peters.

    There is a decent standard 11 there but the lack of depth & quality is always going to undermine any chance of consistency that promotion needs.

    Like every other manager / coach under Duchatelet, Bowyers weaknesses are exposed by the lack of depth in the squad. That is at the door of Duchatelet. Success has a chance when he sells. Hopefully that will be with a Christmas price drop & a chance for some new owners to build some depth into the squad that will help Charlton get out of League One.
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    edited October 2018
    Baffled before the game when I got hold of a teamsheet in the Ratcliffe Bar following a beautiful pint of Lees Bitter. I would of had the same back four we had v Barnsley but in Bowyer we trust and assumed he must of spotted some threat or weakness in the Rochdale team. Could be 3 games in a week but don't get me started on that.
    Anyway, the inevitable happened, Rochdale were allowed to advance on us and it was food & drink for Henderson to notch his 10th goal of the season.
    Our general play from hereon in was erratic and hurried but that all could of been alleviated in the 17th min had Grant showed composure in front of goal as he lofted his shot way above the bar and then in the 19th min, Taylor missed his penalty.
    Rochdale for their part were belying their lowly position with good movement and at times dangerous play.
    Charlton improved a little in the second half but in truth you still felt Rochdale could deliver the sucker punch of a second goal. We had our chances and we needed a break but ultimately we didn't do enough collectively or individually to warrant anything from this game.
    It saddens me that this is the juncture we find ourselves in at present. Two defeats to little old Rochdale in 2018. We are where we are. I'm totally confused, we have a decent set of players to be challenging in this division but it sure ain't happening at the moment. Then we have that nagging sore in the background with the ownership issues.
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    seth plum said:

    ifollow

    Rochdale did to us what we did to Barnsley.
    Yeah we hit the woodwork two or three times, criminally wasted a penalty, and had a lot of skill and slick passing.
    However in this league Rochdale's was a classic performance. We did not have a moment on the ball, they harried as if their lives depended on it, and the goal was the difference, not that they didn't carry a threat generally.
    We were very poor, hardly seemed a team at all, if it wasn't for individuals prepared to have pride in their personal performances it might have been a lot worse.
    Keith Hill is experienced at this level, Bowyer still learning, but very soon Bow will have to find a way to combat the up and at 'em style so prevalent in this league. We do have good players, but the sometimes excruciating and insistent build up from the back was crying out for a bit of variety. OK, in some games you have to play it long, accept you will lose the first challenge, but be ready to win the second ball, and be able to then use it further up the field. We tried one size fitting all today, but were well beaten because Rochdale tried harder with their game plan which suited their home circumstances.
    Individually no one was utterly useless, it was a failure of team play, so I give credit to Djiksteel, Cullen, Pratley, Pearce and Steer and Solly for standard decent performances, the others were average and that did not cut it today.

    This. Came away massively underwhelmed by our performance. Felt the fans including drummer really built up a head of steam in the second to the point of the disallowed goal for off-side then we seemed to deflate and kept passing the ball back to defenders and keeper and seemed incapable of getting out of our 18 yrd box let alone half! Shame as brought along three family members from Sweden. Oh well. On to the next game. Over to you Lee.
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    Oh well, at least I’m having a decent week on the two Prediction threads
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    vffvff
    edited October 2018
    On Bieliek, maybe he didn’t enjoy playing out of centre back position. Not sure myself why LB decided to play Prately at centre back. Maybe Bieliek showed a bit of dissent which is why Bowyer chose to dig him out in the press. Not sure how that’s going to work out, particularly with shortage of quality defensive cover. I guess we will find out over the next few matches.
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    edited October 2018
    vff said:

    Charlton are missing Bauer & Page. It is a makeshift defence with a centre midfield filling in & right back filling in at left back. How do we get here ? Duchatelet sold Konsa & relied upon an injury prone left back with no cover. Bielick is an injury prone centre back & expensive waged 5th choice Sarr is a centre back, a potential calamatious mistake each game.

    A team builds from the back & having an unbalanced & shaky defence is not going to help the rest of the team.

    For the strikers, from what I have seen Grant is League 2 standard. Ajose has good effort but is not a regular scorer & Vetekele never recovered the standard he played after being forced to play whilst injured under Peters.

    There is a decent standard 11 there but the lack of depth & quality is always going to undermine any chance of consistency that promotion needs.

    Like every other manager / coach under Duchatelet, Bowyers weaknesses are exposed by the lack of depth in the squad. That is at the door of Duchatelet. Success has a chance when he sells. Hopefully that will be with a Christmas price drop & a chance for some new owners to build some depth into the squad that will help Charlton get out of League One.

    But its not the defence that is letting us down. Last 2 games we've let in just 2 goals - the one against Oxford was a bit speculative & not a defensive error. If we were losing by 2 or 3 goals then you can blame the defence. The problem is up the other end. No decent crosses coming in (no wingers doesn't help) and no-one apart from the strikers scoring goals. Funny that our recent poor performances have come with Sarr out of the side. Co-incidence maybe but you can't blame him for the last 2 games if he's sitting on the bench.

    In this league you have to score at least 2 goals per game to get something out of the game. Too many times this season we've scored just the once & then let in one with 10 mins or so to go. If we had got a 2nd against Coventry & Oxford I bet we would have won. This is not a "1-0 to the Arsenal" league.
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    We are suffering from injuries, but we still have a far stronger squad than a lot of the other teams in this division.
    In fact a lot of the teams that are taking points of us, have weaker squads than us on paper.

    It pains me to say this but maybe Boyer is the problem. Maybe he needs to be more flexible with his team tactics.
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    vff said:

    Charlton are missing Bauer & Page. It is a makeshift defence with a centre midfield filling in & right back filling in at left back. How do we get here ? Duchatelet sold Konsa & relied upon an injury prone left back with no cover. Bielick is an injury prone centre back & expensive waged 5th choice Sarr is a centre back, a potential calamatious mistake each game.

    A team builds from the back & having an unbalanced & shaky defence is not going to help the rest of the team.

    For the strikers, from what I have seen Grant is League 2 standard. Ajose has good effort but is not a regular scorer & Vetekele never recovered the standard he played after being forced to play whilst injured under Peters.

    There is a decent standard 11 there but the lack of depth & quality is always going to undermine any chance of consistency that promotion needs.

    Like every other manager / coach under Duchatelet, Bowyers weaknesses are exposed by the lack of depth in the squad. That is at the door of Duchatelet. Success has a chance when he sells. Hopefully that will be with a Christmas price drop & a chance for some new owners to build some depth into the squad that will help Charlton get out of League One.

    But its not the defence that is letting us down. Last 2 games we've let in just 2 goals - the one against Oxford was a bit speculative & not a defensive error. If we were losing by 2 or 3 goals then you can blame the defence. The problem is up the other end. No decent crosses coming in (no wingers doesn't help) and no-one apart from the strikers scoring goals. Funny that our recent poor performances have come with Sarr out of the side. Co-incidence maybe but you can't blame him for the last 2 games if he's sitting on the bench.

    In this league you have to score at least 2 goals per game to get something out of the game. Too many times this season we've scored just the once & then let in one with 10 mins or so to go. If we had got a 2nd against Coventry & Oxford I bet we would have won. This is not a "1-0 to the Arsenal" league.
    Golfie where can I pick that free car up from
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    Baffled before the game when I got hold of a teamsheet in the Ratcliffe Bar following a beautiful pint of Lees Bitter. I would of had the same back four we had v Barnsley but in Bowyer we trust and assumed he must of spotted some threat or weakness in the Rochdale team. Could be 3 games in a week but don't get me started on that.
    Anyway, the inevitable happened, Rochdale were allowed to advance on us and it was food & drink for Henderson to notch his 10th goal of the season.
    Our general play from hereon in was erratic and hurried but that all could of been alleviated in the 17th min had Grant showed composure in front of goal as he lofted his shot way above the bar and then in the 19th min, Taylor missed his penalty.
    Rochdale for their part were belying their lowly position with good movement and at times dangerous play.
    Charlton improved a little in the second half but in truth you still felt Rochdale could deliver the sucker punch of a second goal. We had our chances and we needed a break but ultimately we didn't do enough collectively or individually to warrant anything from this game.
    It saddens me that this is the juncture we find ourselves in at present. Two defeats to little old Rochdale in 2018. We are where we are. I'm totally confused, we have a decent set of players to be challenging in this division but it sure ain't happening at the moment. Then we have that nagging sore in the background with the ownership issues.

    Was Lee ok about it?
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    Bilko said:

    I’m a fan of LB, but we should be doing better with these players.

    I don't think it's Bowyer it's some of the players attitudes that need to be questioned
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    clb74 said:

    vff said:

    Charlton are missing Bauer & Page. It is a makeshift defence with a centre midfield filling in & right back filling in at left back. How do we get here ? Duchatelet sold Konsa & relied upon an injury prone left back with no cover. Bielick is an injury prone centre back & expensive waged 5th choice Sarr is a centre back, a potential calamatious mistake each game.

    A team builds from the back & having an unbalanced & shaky defence is not going to help the rest of the team.

    For the strikers, from what I have seen Grant is League 2 standard. Ajose has good effort but is not a regular scorer & Vetekele never recovered the standard he played after being forced to play whilst injured under Peters.

    There is a decent standard 11 there but the lack of depth & quality is always going to undermine any chance of consistency that promotion needs.

    Like every other manager / coach under Duchatelet, Bowyers weaknesses are exposed by the lack of depth in the squad. That is at the door of Duchatelet. Success has a chance when he sells. Hopefully that will be with a Christmas price drop & a chance for some new owners to build some depth into the squad that will help Charlton get out of League One.

    But its not the defence that is letting us down. Last 2 games we've let in just 2 goals - the one against Oxford was a bit speculative & not a defensive error. If we were losing by 2 or 3 goals then you can blame the defence. The problem is up the other end. No decent crosses coming in (no wingers doesn't help) and no-one apart from the strikers scoring goals. Funny that our recent poor performances have come with Sarr out of the side. Co-incidence maybe but you can't blame him for the last 2 games if he's sitting on the bench.

    In this league you have to score at least 2 goals per game to get something out of the game. Too many times this season we've scored just the once & then let in one with 10 mins or so to go. If we had got a 2nd against Coventry & Oxford I bet we would have won. This is not a "1-0 to the Arsenal" league.
    Golfie where can I pick that free car up from
    Please see my reply on the match thread at around 3pm.

    and wtf has that got to do with my post or the game in general ?
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    Onwards and downwards
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    edited October 2018
    Was at the match.
    Support was 10/10 - never stopped getting behind the team.
    We had a few lucky moments and Steer got us out of the shit a number of times. His kicking was awful though, as was the build-up play from the back where the ball was mainly passed backwards and back to him inviting pressure.
    The interplay was alright up front. As usual needed more composure with the final ball. Cullen was our best player and Ward not far behind, so a little perplexing he came off so early. Aribo just had an off day and Afernee covered a lot of ground making up for Joe’s mistakes. Solly’s looking like he needs a rest already.
    Bottom line though, should’ve got a draw and had enough chances second half to win it. We’ve got enough more experienced players to outthink Rochdale - just didn’t show enough nouse. The ghost of Gobshite still evident today and I reckon we need to be a bit more direct sometimes.
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    vff said:

    Charlton are missing Bauer & Page. It is a makeshift defence with a centre midfield filling in & right back filling in at left back. How do we get here ? Duchatelet sold Konsa & relied upon an injury prone left back with no cover. Bielick is an injury prone centre back & expensive waged 5th choice Sarr is a centre back, a potential calamatious mistake each game.

    A team builds from the back & having an unbalanced & shaky defence is not going to help the rest of the team.

    For the strikers, from what I have seen Grant is League 2 standard. Ajose has good effort but is not a regular scorer & Vetekele never recovered the standard he played after being forced to play whilst injured under Peters.

    There is a decent standard 11 there but the lack of depth & quality is always going to undermine any chance of consistency that promotion needs.

    Like every other manager / coach under Duchatelet, Bowyers weaknesses are exposed by the lack of depth in the squad. That is at the door of Duchatelet. Success has a chance when he sells. Hopefully that will be with a Christmas price drop & a chance for some new owners to build some depth into the squad that will help Charlton get out of League One.

    But its not the defence that is letting us down. Last 2 games we've let in just 2 goals - the one against Oxford was a bit speculative & not a defensive error. If we were losing by 2 or 3 goals then you can blame the defence. The problem is up the other end. No decent crosses coming in (no wingers doesn't help) and no-one apart from the strikers scoring goals. Funny that our recent poor performances have come with Sarr out of the side. Co-incidence maybe but you can't blame him for the last 2 games if he's sitting on the bench.

    In this league you have to score at least 2 goals per game to get something out of the game. Too many times this season we've scored just the once & then let in one with 10 mins or so to go. If we had got a 2nd against Coventry & Oxford I bet we would have won. This is not a "1-0 to the Arsenal" league.
    Golfie where can I pick that free car up from

    clb74 said:

    vff said:

    Charlton are missing Bauer & Page. It is a makeshift defence with a centre midfield filling in & right back filling in at left back. How do we get here ? Duchatelet sold Konsa & relied upon an injury prone left back with no cover. Bielick is an injury prone centre back & expensive waged 5th choice Sarr is a centre back, a potential calamatious mistake each game.

    A team builds from the back & having an unbalanced & shaky defence is not going to help the rest of the team.

    For the strikers, from what I have seen Grant is League 2 standard. Ajose has good effort but is not a regular scorer & Vetekele never recovered the standard he played after being forced to play whilst injured under Peters.

    There is a decent standard 11 there but the lack of depth & quality is always going to undermine any chance of consistency that promotion needs.

    Like every other manager / coach under Duchatelet, Bowyers weaknesses are exposed by the lack of depth in the squad. That is at the door of Duchatelet. Success has a chance when he sells. Hopefully that will be with a Christmas price drop & a chance for some new owners to build some depth into the squad that will help Charlton get out of League One.

    But its not the defence that is letting us down. Last 2 games we've let in just 2 goals - the one against Oxford was a bit speculative & not a defensive error. If we were losing by 2 or 3 goals then you can blame the defence. The problem is up the other end. No decent crosses coming in (no wingers doesn't help) and no-one apart from the strikers scoring goals. Funny that our recent poor performances have come with Sarr out of the side. Co-incidence maybe but you can't blame him for the last 2 games if he's sitting on the bench.

    In this league you have to score at least 2 goals per game to get something out of the game. Too many times this season we've scored just the once & then let in one with 10 mins or so to go. If we had got a 2nd against Coventry & Oxford I bet we would have won. This is not a "1-0 to the Arsenal" league.
    Golfie where can I pick that free car up from
    Please see my reply on the match thread at around 3pm.

    and wtf has that got to do with my post or the game in general ?
    Sorry golfie I was out earlier and didn't see your reply
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    Better team won today. Fair play to Rochdale they played for each other and looked a real threat every time they came at us. The stupid diamond was exposing our flanks and we looked better when we went 442. Why they can’t do that before waiting until half time I don’t know but it was so obvious from the stands that it was the wrong tactic.
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    edited October 2018
    TEL said:

    Better team won today. Fair play to Rochdale they played for each other and looked a real threat every time they came at us. The stupid diamond was exposing our flanks and we looked better when we went 442. Why they can’t do that before waiting until half time I don’t know but it was so obvious from the stands that it was the wrong tactic.

    I loved Bowyer as a player & is up there as one of our best youngsters I've seen over the past 35 years.

    However, he is young & in-experienced. He didn't really want to be a manager & was "dragged" away from his fishing lakes by his mate Harry Kewell a couple of years ago. If it wasn't the fact he played for us I doubt he'd still be here. JJ is also cutting his teeth as well. I said a year or two ago that there is no reason why we should keep hankering after old players to be our managers. We have been spoilt by Curbs and latterly SCP. Pardew didn't work out & there is no reason to say that LB will either. Harsh to say, but maybe management and/or this level of football is just not for him.
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    Have to admit Im disappointed that people are unhappy with Bowyer voicing his opinion about attitudes in his post match comments.

    Its something we do see from other Managers to try and get a response from their players, in this regard it might work but regardless I think he's 100% spot on, not one player in that dressing room should be happy with their performance today (Maybe it was harsh to solely mention Bielik).

    If we're worried about player backlash at Bowyer with regards to the comments then I'm afraid they're not players we want at this club, because if they cant stomach being publicly slated or think there was nothing wrong with their attitude today then Id love to get their opinion on what a bad for them means... End of the day we all know and complain that there is too much player power and for that to be enforced at League One level is a joke, especially when the majority of players down here should be worried about being able to play for a club that'll mean they can pay their mortgages etc.

    Completely agree with you about player power, but Bowyer can't be exempt from criticism. He has an almost Messiah status with some, and has done since he first got the job, which I think can cloud judgment.
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    We lost less badly than I expected.
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    Terrible performance and balance to the team. Not much effort either.
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