It is a bit pointless speculating how much Murray cares. I'm sure he cares a lot, but it doesn't matter does it? What is more telling about Murray, is that he was successful when he had a great manager, who he let manage. That is perfection for a businessman. It is when they start to think they know more about the football side, you start to hit the rocks. As soon as Curbs left, rather than look for another Curbs, he appointed a manager to wind up our rivals as much as anything else, but took away many of his powers to manage. The board became much more involved in the football side.
Of course finding another Curbs was not an easy undertaking, so maybe the approach was understandable. When you look back on Curbs he didn't just manage the team. He managed the club. He clearly saw the fans as the extra player and managed us too. I recall many a telling off from Curbs when he thought we weren't doing our job properly. It was a criminal waste that the guy's career fell flat after he took West Ham to a tribunal (which he won). The bloke was a great manager, one of the best. Certainly the best we have ever had. Not an easy act to follow.
What we saw after Curbs leaving was how much harder it is for a chairman to drive the rally car rather than support a great driver by sitting next to him in the passenger seat. I believe the ego of Murray made him believe he was just as important an ingredient in our success as Curbs. True Curbs would not have been able to achieve what he did under Roland, but Murray did a great job as chairman because he focused on the financials, trusted the manager to be sensible, and the club was in synergy.
Murray without Curbs was shown to be completely out of his depth. I think he derailed Pardew by allowing Reid to go when we were fighting to return that first season after relegation. Decisions since then have been inept and from being one of the best chairmen he became one of the worst. His biggest failing has always been that he cannot see it for what it is. Without a Curbs to hang on to, Murray has shown that he has an ability to be truly incompetent. Siding himself with the owner, I'm sure in his eyes for the betterment of the club, is just another example of this. If I could give him a gift, it would be the insight to know that he isn't as good as he thinks he is (in the context of football only I must stress). That isn't a bad thing, if you know your limitations, you can be very effective working within them, as he was under the great Curbs.
At that time Charlton were labelled the best run club in the country and the club others outside the very top ones should aspire to be. For a short time, just before Parker was sold, we were without doubt the fourth best team in the country FFS! Whilst Murray was a key part of this, his issue was that he believed this was because of him. To be fair it was, but only because his position was to support a manager with vision and prodigious ability. He did spot that ability, and he did nurture it. We can't take it away from him - but without Curbs Murray is a footballing disaster. That is sadly the fact he needs to accept!
I think he derailed Pardew by allowing Reid to go when we were fighting to return that first season after relegation.
To be fair, Murray had little control over Reid leaving, as he always tried to be fair to players. Sunderland offered Reid double the salary he was on at CAFC (£20k a week vs £10k at Charlton), and while Reid didn't really want to leave, he had to financially.
We will always owe a debt to RM, for the nineties and Prem years, but he has blown it considerably in the last ten years and really ought to take a back step now and let things happen without his own interference.
That was a good post Mutley and I’d agree he could have been more visible over the rd years but I think he also realises that it takes somebody prepared to constantly put their hands in their pockets to run this and most other clubs and as such, they have the right to do things there way - however bad their way may be
And I might add, we have the right to kick up if we think it isn’t being run the right way - he would tell u he stayed on in order to try and influence from within rather than just be another one of us, with very little influence, standing in the car park - if he didn’t care, I would suggest, the easiest thing would have been to walk away but others think it’s for prestige or to block varney and others - who knows, I dont
I'm sure whatever the reasons, he has done them for what he thinks is best for the club. My point is that he has shown his judgement on these matters isn't the best.
I do sometimes visit the other site that cannot be named, and saw an interesting post from Reams - I respect his football knowledge greatly but not everything else he says. Anyway, he made the point that the fans of Sheffield United were better than ours in the context of the Wilder discussion. Another poster corrected him and mentioned the Curbs years. I think we can call them the Curbs and Murray years. We were the best fans in the country then in terms of supporting the team - of that I have no doubt. I can recall games the fans won! Managers like Sir Alex commented on this. We were the best fans - we aren't now - Murray was the best chairman - Curbs was the best manager.
Murray was instrumental in that period, we all had a part to play and we played the right parts. The chairman and board did their job, the players did theirs, the fans did theirs and we let the Captain steer the ship. What made the fans so great is the same ingredient that got us back to the Valley and it is the same ingredient to the protests. The qualities are all there, but they are being forced in teh wrong direction. A new owner has an amazing opportunity to tap into that special quality whist the dying embers are still burning.
Still unable to face listening to the entire interview with RD for fear of throwing something though a window, I picked up on something which Weggie reported on:
Evidently, at one point Duchatelet implies that young players cannot differentiate between criticism of him from that of the team.
What unadulterated arrogance from the man.
For the record (although I can't recall which 'protest' game it was) I saw a group of Charlton youth players in tracksuits outside The Valley, one of whom was wearing a black and white scarf.
It is a bit pointless speculating how much Murray cares. I'm sure he cares a lot, but it doesn't matter does it? What is more telling about Murray, is that he was successful when he had a great manager, who he let manage. That is perfection for a businessman. It is when they start to think they know more about the football side, you start to hit the rocks. As soon as Curbs left, rather than look for another Curbs, he appointed a manager to wind up our rivals as much as anything else, but took away many of his powers to manage. The board became much more involved in the football side.
Of course finding another Curbs was not an easy undertaking, so maybe the approach was understandable. When you look back on Curbs he didn't just manage the team. He managed the club. He clearly saw the fans as the extra player and managed us too. I recall many a telling off from Curbs when he thought we weren't doing our job properly. It was a criminal waste that the guy's career fell flat after he took West Ham to a tribunal (which he won). The bloke was a great manager, one of the best. Certainly the best we have ever had. Not an easy act to follow.
What we saw after Curbs leaving was how much harder it is for a chairman to drive the rally car rather than support a great driver by sitting next to him in the passenger seat. I believe the ego of Murray made him believe he was just as important an ingredient in our success as Curbs. True Curbs would not have been able to achieve what he did under Roland, but Murray did a great job as chairman because he focused on the financials, trusted the manager to be sensible, and the club was in synergy.
Murray without Curbs was shown to be completely out of his depth. I think he derailed Pardew by allowing Reid to go when we were fighting to return that first season after relegation. Decisions since then have been inept and from being one of the best chairmen he became one of the worst. His biggest failing has always been that he cannot see it for what it is. Without a Curbs to hang on to, Murray has shown that he has an ability to be truly incompetent. Siding himself with the owner, I'm sure in his eyes for the betterment of the club, is just another example of this. If I could give him a gift, it would be the insight to know that he isn't as good as he thinks he is (in the context of football only I must stress). That isn't a bad thing, if you know your limitations, you can be very effective working within them, as he was under the great Curbs.
At that time Charlton were labelled the best run club in the country and the club others outside the very top ones should aspire to be. For a short time, just before Parker was sold, we were without doubt the fourth best team in the country FFS! Whilst Murray was a key part of this, his issue was that he believed this was because of him. To be fair it was, but only because his position was to support a manager with vision and prodigious ability. He did spot that ability, and he did nurture it. We can't take it away from him - but without Curbs Murray is a footballing disaster. That is sadly the fact he needs to accept!
i am listening to it now, all i have taken so far is he deny's any accusation that we, the fans have ever made, however then tells JW exactly what it was we said he was doing! how the fuck is this guy so loaded, his a fucking imbecile!
I've never had a problem with the tango man as he made his money from mobile phones and then the split personality of football fan and successful businessman became blurred and he lost millions chasing the dream. When you are raised in a house in Holmesdale Road he isn't going to support Cafc or the spanners.
Dickie Murray and Simon Jordan are sworn enemies but I find SJ honesty(ego driven I know) refreshing and some of his comments about RM may not be so wide of the mark.
His reason for not going in the Birmingham Boardroom when the West ham trio were the owners and CEO were great.
"Gold made his Money from dildos, and Sullivan made his money from wank books"
Simon Jordan quoting from Mary Whitehouse possibly ?
His views on her ladyship Brady were never aired but would have been interesting.
It is a bit pointless speculating how much Murray cares. I'm sure he cares a lot, but it doesn't matter does it? What is more telling about Murray, is that he was successful when he had a great manager, who he let manage. That is perfection for a businessman. It is when they start to think they know more about the football side, you start to hit the rocks. As soon as Curbs left, rather than look for another Curbs, he appointed a manager to wind up our rivals as much as anything else, but took away many of his powers to manage. The board became much more involved in the football side.
Of course finding another Curbs was not an easy undertaking, so maybe the approach was understandable. When you look back on Curbs he didn't just manage the team. He managed the club. He clearly saw the fans as the extra player and managed us too. I recall many a telling off from Curbs when he thought we weren't doing our job properly. It was a criminal waste that the guy's career fell flat after he took West Ham to a tribunal (which he won). The bloke was a great manager, one of the best. Certainly the best we have ever had. Not an easy act to follow.
What we saw after Curbs leaving was how much harder it is for a chairman to drive the rally car rather than support a great driver by sitting next to him in the passenger seat. I believe the ego of Murray made him believe he was just as important an ingredient in our success as Curbs. True Curbs would not have been able to achieve what he did under Roland, but Murray did a great job as chairman because he focused on the financials, trusted the manager to be sensible, and the club was in synergy.
Murray without Curbs was shown to be completely out of his depth. I think he derailed Pardew by allowing Reid to go when we were fighting to return that first season after relegation. Decisions since then have been inept and from being one of the best chairmen he became one of the worst. His biggest failing has always been that he cannot see it for what it is. Without a Curbs to hang on to, Murray has shown that he has an ability to be truly incompetent. Siding himself with the owner, I'm sure in his eyes for the betterment of the club, is just another example of this. If I could give him a gift, it would be the insight to know that he isn't as good as he thinks he is (in the context of football only I must stress). That isn't a bad thing, if you know your limitations, you can be very effective working within them, as he was under the great Curbs.
At that time Charlton were labelled the best run club in the country and the club others outside the very top ones should aspire to be. For a short time, just before Parker was sold, we were without doubt the fourth best team in the country FFS! Whilst Murray was a key part of this, his issue was that he believed this was because of him. To be fair it was, but only because his position was to support a manager with vision and prodigious ability. He did spot that ability, and he did nurture it. We can't take it away from him - but without Curbs Murray is a footballing disaster. That is sadly the fact he needs to accept!
Pride derailed Murray and CAFC for years to come. He couldn’t accept that curbs wanted to see his contract out and wouldn’t sign another - so he thought he’d let him go the year before the major TV deal kicked in and get someone in who he’d unearth as the next big management talent. He overestimated his ability to spot that talent.
Curbs’ brother, the music mogul, stated at the time that he felt Alan deserved more money and backing from the chairman, which somehow Dowie later got on the back of a good season or two with palace.
Hindsight is easy, but if Curbs had kept us up another season until the TV money kicked in, who knows what might have happened.
It is a bit pointless speculating how much Murray cares. I'm sure he cares a lot, but it doesn't matter does it? What is more telling about Murray, is that he was successful when he had a great manager, who he let manage. That is perfection for a businessman. It is when they start to think they know more about the football side, you start to hit the rocks. As soon as Curbs left, rather than look for another Curbs, he appointed a manager to wind up our rivals as much as anything else, but took away many of his powers to manage. The board became much more involved in the football side.
Of course finding another Curbs was not an easy undertaking, so maybe the approach was understandable. When you look back on Curbs he didn't just manage the team. He managed the club. He clearly saw the fans as the extra player and managed us too. I recall many a telling off from Curbs when he thought we weren't doing our job properly. It was a criminal waste that the guy's career fell flat after he took West Ham to a tribunal (which he won). The bloke was a great manager, one of the best. Certainly the best we have ever had. Not an easy act to follow.
What we saw after Curbs leaving was how much harder it is for a chairman to drive the rally car rather than support a great driver by sitting next to him in the passenger seat. I believe the ego of Murray made him believe he was just as important an ingredient in our success as Curbs. True Curbs would not have been able to achieve what he did under Roland, but Murray did a great job as chairman because he focused on the financials, trusted the manager to be sensible, and the club was in synergy.
Murray without Curbs was shown to be completely out of his depth. I think he derailed Pardew by allowing Reid to go when we were fighting to return that first season after relegation. Decisions since then have been inept and from being one of the best chairmen he became one of the worst. His biggest failing has always been that he cannot see it for what it is. Without a Curbs to hang on to, Murray has shown that he has an ability to be truly incompetent. Siding himself with the owner, I'm sure in his eyes for the betterment of the club, is just another example of this. If I could give him a gift, it would be the insight to know that he isn't as good as he thinks he is (in the context of football only I must stress). That isn't a bad thing, if you know your limitations, you can be very effective working within them, as he was under the great Curbs.
At that time Charlton were labelled the best run club in the country and the club others outside the very top ones should aspire to be. For a short time, just before Parker was sold, we were without doubt the fourth best team in the country FFS! Whilst Murray was a key part of this, his issue was that he believed this was because of him. To be fair it was, but only because his position was to support a manager with vision and prodigious ability. He did spot that ability, and he did nurture it. We can't take it away from him - but without Curbs Murray is a footballing disaster. That is sadly the fact he needs to accept!
Pride derailed Murray and CAFC for years to come. He couldn’t accept that curbs wanted to see his contract out and wouldn’t sign another - so he thought he’d let him go the year before the major TV deal kicked in and get someone in who he’d unearth as the next big management talent. He overestimated his ability to spot that talent.
Curbs’ brother, the music mogul, stated at the time that he felt Alan deserved more money and backing from the chairman, which somehow Dowie later got on the back of a good season or two with palace.
Hindsight is easy, but if Curbs had kept us up another season until the TV money kicked in, who knows what might have happened.
Plenty of us said it at the time but the 'boring mid table premiership football' and 'Curbs has taken us as far as he can' lobbies possessed louder voices and influence.
Interview was mentioned on The Guardian Football Weekly podcast, though they hadn't had a chance to listen to it. Imagine it will be covered on Monday.
It is a bit pointless speculating how much Murray cares. I'm sure he cares a lot, but it doesn't matter does it? What is more telling about Murray, is that he was successful when he had a great manager, who he let manage. That is perfection for a businessman. It is when they start to think they know more about the football side, you start to hit the rocks. As soon as Curbs left, rather than look for another Curbs, he appointed a manager to wind up our rivals as much as anything else, but took away many of his powers to manage. The board became much more involved in the football side.
Of course finding another Curbs was not an easy undertaking, so maybe the approach was understandable. When you look back on Curbs he didn't just manage the team. He managed the club. He clearly saw the fans as the extra player and managed us too. I recall many a telling off from Curbs when he thought we weren't doing our job properly. It was a criminal waste that the guy's career fell flat after he took West Ham to a tribunal (which he won). The bloke was a great manager, one of the best. Certainly the best we have ever had. Not an easy act to follow.
What we saw after Curbs leaving was how much harder it is for a chairman to drive the rally car rather than support a great driver by sitting next to him in the passenger seat. I believe the ego of Murray made him believe he was just as important an ingredient in our success as Curbs. True Curbs would not have been able to achieve what he did under Roland, but Murray did a great job as chairman because he focused on the financials, trusted the manager to be sensible, and the club was in synergy.
Murray without Curbs was shown to be completely out of his depth. I think he derailed Pardew by allowing Reid to go when we were fighting to return that first season after relegation. Decisions since then have been inept and from being one of the best chairmen he became one of the worst. His biggest failing has always been that he cannot see it for what it is. Without a Curbs to hang on to, Murray has shown that he has an ability to be truly incompetent. Siding himself with the owner, I'm sure in his eyes for the betterment of the club, is just another example of this. If I could give him a gift, it would be the insight to know that he isn't as good as he thinks he is (in the context of football only I must stress). That isn't a bad thing, if you know your limitations, you can be very effective working within them, as he was under the great Curbs.
At that time Charlton were labelled the best run club in the country and the club others outside the very top ones should aspire to be. For a short time, just before Parker was sold, we were without doubt the fourth best team in the country FFS! Whilst Murray was a key part of this, his issue was that he believed this was because of him. To be fair it was, but only because his position was to support a manager with vision and prodigious ability. He did spot that ability, and he did nurture it. We can't take it away from him - but without Curbs Murray is a footballing disaster. That is sadly the fact he needs to accept!
Pride derailed Murray and CAFC for years to come. He couldn’t accept that curbs wanted to see his contract out and wouldn’t sign another - so he thought he’d let him go the year before the major TV deal kicked in and get someone in who he’d unearth as the next big management talent. He overestimated his ability to spot that talent.
Curbs’ brother, the music mogul, stated at the time that he felt Alan deserved more money and backing from the chairman, which somehow Dowie later got on the back of a good season or two with palace.
Hindsight is easy, but if Curbs had kept us up another season until the TV money kicked in, who knows what might have happened.
Plenty of us said it at the time but the 'boring mid table premiership football' and 'Curbs has taken us as far as he can' lobbies possessed louder voices and influence.
I really don't remember any kind of mass outpouring of those sentiments.
And it's been used as a stick to bash Charlton fans with ever since.
It is a bit pointless speculating how much Murray cares. I'm sure he cares a lot, but it doesn't matter does it? What is more telling about Murray, is that he was successful when he had a great manager, who he let manage. That is perfection for a businessman. It is when they start to think they know more about the football side, you start to hit the rocks. As soon as Curbs left, rather than look for another Curbs, he appointed a manager to wind up our rivals as much as anything else, but took away many of his powers to manage. The board became much more involved in the football side.
Of course finding another Curbs was not an easy undertaking, so maybe the approach was understandable. When you look back on Curbs he didn't just manage the team. He managed the club. He clearly saw the fans as the extra player and managed us too. I recall many a telling off from Curbs when he thought we weren't doing our job properly. It was a criminal waste that the guy's career fell flat after he took West Ham to a tribunal (which he won). The bloke was a great manager, one of the best. Certainly the best we have ever had. Not an easy act to follow.
What we saw after Curbs leaving was how much harder it is for a chairman to drive the rally car rather than support a great driver by sitting next to him in the passenger seat. I believe the ego of Murray made him believe he was just as important an ingredient in our success as Curbs. True Curbs would not have been able to achieve what he did under Roland, but Murray did a great job as chairman because he focused on the financials, trusted the manager to be sensible, and the club was in synergy.
Murray without Curbs was shown to be completely out of his depth. I think he derailed Pardew by allowing Reid to go when we were fighting to return that first season after relegation. Decisions since then have been inept and from being one of the best chairmen he became one of the worst. His biggest failing has always been that he cannot see it for what it is. Without a Curbs to hang on to, Murray has shown that he has an ability to be truly incompetent. Siding himself with the owner, I'm sure in his eyes for the betterment of the club, is just another example of this. If I could give him a gift, it would be the insight to know that he isn't as good as he thinks he is (in the context of football only I must stress). That isn't a bad thing, if you know your limitations, you can be very effective working within them, as he was under the great Curbs.
At that time Charlton were labelled the best run club in the country and the club others outside the very top ones should aspire to be. For a short time, just before Parker was sold, we were without doubt the fourth best team in the country FFS! Whilst Murray was a key part of this, his issue was that he believed this was because of him. To be fair it was, but only because his position was to support a manager with vision and prodigious ability. He did spot that ability, and he did nurture it. We can't take it away from him - but without Curbs Murray is a footballing disaster. That is sadly the fact he needs to accept!
Pride derailed Murray and CAFC for years to come. He couldn’t accept that curbs wanted to see his contract out and wouldn’t sign another - so he thought he’d let him go the year before the major TV deal kicked in and get someone in who he’d unearth as the next big management talent. He overestimated his ability to spot that talent.
Curbs’ brother, the music mogul, stated at the time that he felt Alan deserved more money and backing from the chairman, which somehow Dowie later got on the back of a good season or two with palace.
Hindsight is easy, but if Curbs had kept us up another season until the TV money kicked in, who knows what might have happened.
Plenty of us said it at the time but the 'boring mid table premiership football' and 'Curbs has taken us as far as he can' lobbies possessed louder voices and influence.
I really don't remember any kind of mass outpouring of those sentiments.
And it's been used as a stick to bash Charlton fans with ever since.
And one of the main culprits was, ironically, Talksport who allowed "Kelvin from Sevenoaks" to repeat that nonsense again and again without saying he was the owner of the station and a spanner.
Our Kelvin is moving in interesting circles at the moment.
He's teamed up with RM on a couple of new sport radio stations - but it's the other 'funders' of this venture that interest me, what with one owning a football club and one owning a rugby club.
It is a bit pointless speculating how much Murray cares. I'm sure he cares a lot, but it doesn't matter does it? What is more telling about Murray, is that he was successful when he had a great manager, who he let manage. That is perfection for a businessman. It is when they start to think they know more about the football side, you start to hit the rocks. As soon as Curbs left, rather than look for another Curbs, he appointed a manager to wind up our rivals as much as anything else, but took away many of his powers to manage. The board became much more involved in the football side.
Of course finding another Curbs was not an easy undertaking, so maybe the approach was understandable. When you look back on Curbs he didn't just manage the team. He managed the club. He clearly saw the fans as the extra player and managed us too. I recall many a telling off from Curbs when he thought we weren't doing our job properly. It was a criminal waste that the guy's career fell flat after he took West Ham to a tribunal (which he won). The bloke was a great manager, one of the best. Certainly the best we have ever had. Not an easy act to follow.
What we saw after Curbs leaving was how much harder it is for a chairman to drive the rally car rather than support a great driver by sitting next to him in the passenger seat. I believe the ego of Murray made him believe he was just as important an ingredient in our success as Curbs. True Curbs would not have been able to achieve what he did under Roland, but Murray did a great job as chairman because he focused on the financials, trusted the manager to be sensible, and the club was in synergy.
Murray without Curbs was shown to be completely out of his depth. I think he derailed Pardew by allowing Reid to go when we were fighting to return that first season after relegation. Decisions since then have been inept and from being one of the best chairmen he became one of the worst. His biggest failing has always been that he cannot see it for what it is. Without a Curbs to hang on to, Murray has shown that he has an ability to be truly incompetent. Siding himself with the owner, I'm sure in his eyes for the betterment of the club, is just another example of this. If I could give him a gift, it would be the insight to know that he isn't as good as he thinks he is (in the context of football only I must stress). That isn't a bad thing, if you know your limitations, you can be very effective working within them, as he was under the great Curbs.
At that time Charlton were labelled the best run club in the country and the club others outside the very top ones should aspire to be. For a short time, just before Parker was sold, we were without doubt the fourth best team in the country FFS! Whilst Murray was a key part of this, his issue was that he believed this was because of him. To be fair it was, but only because his position was to support a manager with vision and prodigious ability. He did spot that ability, and he did nurture it. We can't take it away from him - but without Curbs Murray is a footballing disaster. That is sadly the fact he needs to accept!
Pride derailed Murray and CAFC for years to come. He couldn’t accept that curbs wanted to see his contract out and wouldn’t sign another - so he thought he’d let him go the year before the major TV deal kicked in and get someone in who he’d unearth as the next big management talent. He overestimated his ability to spot that talent.
Curbs’ brother, the music mogul, stated at the time that he felt Alan deserved more money and backing from the chairman, which somehow Dowie later got on the back of a good season or two with palace.
Hindsight is easy, but if Curbs had kept us up another season until the TV money kicked in, who knows what might have happened.
Plenty of us said it at the time but the 'boring mid table premiership football' and 'Curbs has taken us as far as he can' lobbies possessed louder voices and influence.
I think that is complete tosh. You have been listening too much to Mark Lawrensen. There was no pressure from fans to get Curbs out - just a few idiots on the radio. People who I am sure no longer follow us!
I know it's a bit late in the day but I have transcribed the Jim White Roland Duchatelet interview. I can post it here if members are interested - assuming such a transcript is allowed.
Note: RD often speaks rapidly and continuously in very long sentences. In order to make his replies easier to read I have sometimes broken them down into short two or three line paragraphs. No words have been changed.
Occasionally he hesitates or repeats words as most of us do when speaking at length or formulating what we are trying to say as we speak. The only words removed are these occasional repetitions, which were unintentional and don't add anything to what is being said. ___
00:00 JW Back in 2014 you decided to buy Charlton Athletic Football Club. What was your intention then for the Club when you bought it?
00:08 RD Well if you think about football in general, what you see is that England is really on the top of world football today, because in England for example there's no match fixing, you have very good referees... they make mistakes once in a while... they are outstanding compared to other countries. There are a few other countries which are quite good also like Germany and in the meantime Spain is also very good, France is OK. But it's quite clear that England is a very good example with regard to the quality of the game in many respects.
And I thought maybe in football we should do the same as in other businesses where you have different branches in different countries, and create a network of clubs that would also help, for example, to build the careers of young players which we have at Charlton for example, and if for example they cannot join the first team at Charlton, maybe they could in Carl Zeiss Jena in Germany...
And so you can create synergies, you can create efficiencies, by having a network of clubs... and by the way other clubs are doing this as well...
01:20 JW (interrupts RD) Yes of course; players from one club going to another club... yes OK I understand.
01:25 RD So and, er, that's the reason why I... (unclear)... definitely England is a very good choice, and within England of course London is a very good choice, and then at the time they told me, well, the best possible fans and the best possible club in England is Charlton.
Also because of the Community Trust which is outstanding, not just in England or in London but worldwide. I think England has also made the biggest advance in community... in linking the community to football clubs, and it's quite clear that football has a big, big, big social mission. And Charlton was a very, very good example of that, and that's the reason why I was... quickly convinced that Charlton was the right club to own in England.
02:16 JW So for a whole variety of aspects you bought... what did you pay for the club?
02:19 RD Well... that is not important at this stage, but it's clear that every football club is... has a cost, not just in terms of buying the club, but also in terms of operating the club. And you know the problem is that... the main thing is that you need to be prepared to lose millions of pounds a year, if you own a club.
And by the way, this is in fact one of the problems of English football. For example in the Championship the situation is that, I think, nearly all the clubs lose money, and when I joined England so to speak, as a football owner, at the time there was also a financial fair play system in the Championship, which they suppressed (unclear) in time, but that is a very unhealthy aspect in English football, that even from the Premier League clubs, half of them lose money and I think this is a big problem English football needs to fix.
The other thing which is also interesting if you start thinking about football as a business in England; I think it's... few people know that in the meantime the added value of English football is coming close to the added value of agriculture in England.
So it is big, and important thing for England... and I think it's also very important that they fix the problem of all these losses which are made by the owners, because it's not very attractive for the owners who want to invest in English football - that they have to cope with severe losses every year, in this kind of... well... activity.
04:11 JW I see, OK. You're taking me in various directions, which is great. At the time when you bought the club, did you think 'yeah, these are good fans, decent fans, I like them'?
04:22 RD Absolutely. I still think they are very good fans.
04:26 JW You still think they are very good fans?
04:28 RD Yes, I do think they are very good fans. I think the problem is that at a given point in time we were not responsive enough, our communications team was not responsive enough to the... things which were said about us and about Katrien, which were untrue...
04:50 JW Katrien Meire, your CEO...
04:52 RD ...CEO At the time. Yeah, and so we were not responsive at all...
04:55 JW But at the beginning Roland, you thought 'this is good, I can get on with these people, the fans are great' and you still think that?
05:02 RD I still think that, yes. I still think that because you can't help people thinking you know, they have to think, if they are ill-informed it's logical that they make wrong decisions, in terms of what they should... think. And so in fact we are also to blame because we didn't inform them very well.
It's just lately that I decided 'OK now this is finished, we will inform the people about what reality is'. And we saw the example recently that in fact people started to think also, and in fact I am very happy that it is quite clear that the brains of our fans still work properly and that they can make their own conclusions.
Now of course there is some work to be done in the future, but on the other hand also we need to be realistic; the mismanagement which we did with regard to communication has led us into the situation where I am not desired anymore as an owner. I'm OK that's not a big deal, I will find another owner, it just takes a bit longer than I would have expected.
06:05 JW Well I'm going to talk to you about that. You think early on the communications wasn't good enough; the communication between the club, between you and the supporters. And that is where the problem began, that's what you're saying.
06:18 RD Absolutely. Now you have also to realise that in fact Charlton for me is about er... is less than 2% of the total activities which I have with other companies and other football clubs, and is less than 2% of the employees. But of course from the perspective of a fan of Charlton, who dreams day and night of being the big boss of the football club, he cannot imagine that the big boss of the football club has only 2% of time for his football Club.
Now I did spend a lot of time in the very beginning, to understand what the problems were and to decide what we were going to. But of course I cannot continue to spend a lot of time, so after three, four months I did give it in the hands of a CEO, which is a person I did trust...
07:08 JW (interrupts RD) Katrien Meire...
07:09 RD Yes, but on the other hand also, my desire was to work in the continuity of the club. And that is also the reason why I didn't become the President of the club. And secondly I asked Richard Murray, which was really... in my mind carried the history of the club, to become the President of the club and to help us in managing the club. And he was very, very helpful to help us in making major decisions at that point in time.
07:39 JW But of course, you had so many managerial appointments when I look back at it. I mean Chris Powell went, and that proved to be very unpopular. Jose Riga, Bob Peeters; he was sacked after 25 games. Guy Luzon, Karel Fraeye. Riga came back. Then we've Russell Slade, Karl Robinson... It goes on. Lee Bowyer has given you stability, but the supporters Roland are thinking 'what on earth is going on?'
07:39 JW But of course, you had so many managerial appointments when I look back at it. I mean Chris Powell went, and that proved to be very unpopular. Jose Riga, Bob Peeters; he was sacked after 25 games. Guy Luzon, Karel Fraeye. Riga came back. Then we've Russell Slade, Karl Robinson... It goes on. Lee Bowyer has given you stability, but the supporters Roland are thinking 'what on earth is going on?'
08:06 RD Well, it's er...
08:07 JW (interrupts RD) Were you making these appointments?
08:09 RD Well... when we took over we were determined to keep Chris Powell the manager at the time. We wanted to keep him, we thought he was excellent for the club. And so we also tried to seriously work with him at the time, now you remember that Charlton was not doing very well in terms of results. And also there was another incident, and that's also the problem, that people do not know everything and you cannot tell everything to the people.
At that point in time there was a major player of the team who we took over in January, the beginning of January, so we had one month to fix the problem. Basically it's not a long period of time, and we couldn't do much work in advance. Was one player who had a very poor contract, in the sense that when he would play less than 25 games in that season, he was free. And this contract would not be prolonged. That was a big problem; and so basically this player said 'well maybe I will get ill if you don't give me a new contract'.
09:22 JW Maybe he'll get ill? Right, OK.
09:25 RD And that's not the kind of games you have to play with me. So I said 'OK well this player has to go' and we could manage to sell him at that point in time. But then of course it was mandatory to get in other players, which to effect keep the team up, and that's what we did.
And then we felt that Chris Powell was not such an enthusiastic user of the players, which we didn't even... well, had problems to communicate about this, was difficult to reach, so then finally, rather than give him a new contract - because we were negotiating with him to give him a new contract - this, the main reason why we finally didn't give him a new contract was A) he wanted his two assistants to have a similar new contract with an improvement salary, and second thing is that he didn't really... want to discuss with our analysts about what to do and not to do.
So then of course, if you are last of the league, and you are in that situation; in fact we were running out of possibilities to continue to work with him. And that's the reason why I brought in Jose Riga, which is really a friend to me, because I know him so well, he worked in Standard with me. He helped us out and he got to 1.5 points per game, which was very good at the time, the fans were very pleased with the result and they wanted Jose Riga to stay after that season. Because in fact he saved the club.
And erm... I decided not to keep him, for two reasons; the first reason is because he is a real family man and he was in... most of the time he was in London alone in a hotel and suffered, and his family was not there. That was not a good situation, long term.
And then I also thought 'OK, well the fans want to have a more British kind of influence in... from the coach, and we had a coach which was... who had played in Millwall in Championship at the time. He also was very fluent in English and that was not a problem at all. He knew the competition..."
11:48 JW This was Bob Peeters...
11:49 RD Yes. So you know in this kind of...
11:51 JW (interrupts RD) We're not going top go through each... we're not going to talk about each...
11:53 RD (interrupts JW. They speak over each other for a few seconds) Well it's (unclear) you understand in fact it's...
11:55 JW (interrupts RD) Yes but to the fans Roland, that looks like mismanagement.
11:59 RD Yes but that's the reason why, I try to explain why, if you have a new owner he wants also to go step by step. Is an English manager which you don't really know very well the best choice (unclear)... I'm not even sure, because the majority of managers in the Premier League are not English managers, they are... I must admit there are as many Scots, they aren't English huh?
And so what it means is that it is not a natural choice, to believe that you need an English manager to be successful. Quite to the contrary, the history proves that in many instances have been otherwise. So I'm not tempted to believe that this is mandatory, but that's the reason why we took that step.
12:48 JW I understand that... throughout that period of these managers coming and going, can you say hand on heart you didn't get involved in team selection? Did you leave it to the managers... did you ever try to pick players for the team?
13:00 RD Well, I... we haven't, you know that it's... you know that with... (laughs) I just told you I have only 2% of my activities in football, in Charlton, so I didn't really have the time to be involved. So some people of us, were of course working also on making suggestions of which players to pick and so forth. And even in the e-mail which was released basically by... I must think it was a former manager who released that, in fact it is clearly written that this is a suggestion.
So the claim that we imposed some players to be played is totally wrong. And it is proven to be wrong by the very e-mail which was published at the time.
13:47 JW So you never get involved in team selection, you would totally deny that.
13:50 RD Involved? Yes, in a sense that I was... especially my people were suggesting to play in some ways, or...
13:59 JW suggesting to the coach, suggesting...
14:01 RD Suggesting, yeah sure...
14:02 JW (interrupts RD) But not demanding.
14:03 RD Not demanding.
14:06 JW Could you ever have envisaged it would get so bad. You're now sitting here in Brussels, Charlton play today! You can't go.
14:16 RD Yes...
14:17 JW (interrupts RD) You can't go? Or won't go... I mean, would you consider going?
14:21 RD I even can't consider going in these circumstances because it's not... but OK that's not a problem, I mean I don't have the time anyway to go to many games, and also the other clubs like Alcorcon in Spain and so forth, I don't go very often there either. So...
14:40 JW (interrupts RD) But Charlton Athletic is still your club. You're the owner. Is it not crazy that you don't go, to see how things are going, how the team is playing?
14:49 RD Yeah...
14:49 JW (interrupts RD) The fans go every week.
14:50 RD Yes sure, but OK I'm... that's er... I have also other activities to do, I have other things which I want to do. So it's not too bad if I can't go; of course it's a pity but it's not too bad.
15:05 JW I mean er... are you scared to go?
15:09 RD Er... today I think I wouldn't be scared to go, but there have been moments when it really was not very appealing for me to go, because you don't... you never know. And I think the problem is that in such circumstances it is better not to go.
15:24 JW And yet you still say... you still have strong feelings for those supporters? And yet they tell me - a vast majority of them - hate you.
15:34 RD Yeah, that's true. I also... I think that very many hate me, but the problem is that is a consequence of our... of us not being good in our communication. We were, in a way, our communication as I would say (unclear) too soft; when people were saying things which were untrue about what was going on, we didn't react because our communications team did recommend us to say 'well no, you have to be nice with the fans' and so forth and don't contradict them because it won't help, and that's the reason why in fact we didn't react properly.
15:34 RD Yeah, that's true. I also... I think that very many hate me, but the problem is that is a consequence of our... of us not being good in our communication. We were, in a way, our communication as I would say (unclear) too soft; when people were saying things which were untrue about what was going on, we didn't react because our communications team did recommend us to say 'well no, you have to be nice with the fans' and so forth and don't contradict them because it won't help, and that's the reason why in fact we didn't react properly.
So that was bad, and that was... of course it was also us who had to react in a different way. But OK that is the past now, and due to this miscommunication we have created the situation where some people, mainly this Mr Everitt, who is er... has been created... has created a movement against...
16:41 JW The Coalition...
16:42 RD Yeah the Coalition, first against Katrien Meire, and as I think Katrien is a fantastic woman, and...
16:48 JW (interrupts RD) And she's now at Sheffield Wednesday isn't she...
16:49 RD Yes, and very good moral qualities...
16:52 JW (interrupts RD) But Everitt and the rest of the fans felt they had to do that.
16:55 RD Yes, and in fact er...
16:56 JW (interrupts RD) And you've reprimanded them for it.
16:58 RD Yes, and I did stand behind Katrien Meire the former CEO because I felt she did nothing wrong, quite to the contrary she did her very best and... in fact the people to blame at the time were these communication people in the first place, not Katrien Meire.
17:14 JW But Roland why didn't you get hold of the communication team? Why didn't you recognise that problem then, this ridic... we wouldn't be in this situation today if you had.
17:23 RD Well we really... in fact we did recognise it at the time already, but the problem is that it's er... it was not easy to change this. And in fact we did some changes that... we did three basically; some changes in communications team, but nevertheless it is still not so easy because from a mentality point of view... it's very strange, it's maybe British I don't know, but people don't say the truth when you have to say the truth.
And so lately I said 'now it's finished now. We have to say the truth huh, and then we'll see what happens. I don't care, but we have to stop letting other people saying things which are not true.
18:07 JW And when you say it's finished do you mean your time at the Club is close to being finished?
18:12 RD Yes but in any case. But I don't... I think it's also good that now we just say 'if there is stupid things which are untrue, that we just contradict them'. Which was something which the former communications team did not want to do.
18:30 JW Well, what is true? Is it true you put £60 million of your own money into the football Club?
18:36 RD Of course (unclear) put a lot of money in the...
18:39 JW (interrupts RD) About sixty? That's a lot of money.
18:40 RD Every club in the... every owner in the English... and that's a problem that I addressed formerly, has to put a lot of money into the football club. And that's not healthy. In the end of the day this is a big problem which needs to be solved. We addressed that problem already.
18:59 JW What else is true? Are you still investing in the football club? Do you still put your own money in the club?
19:05 RD Yeah sure. Of course we cannot stop investing, and I think we have made a very competitive team also this year, that's good that we do that.
19:15 JW So you're still investing, you're still putting money - your own money - in. And yet people, until recently, weren't paid bonuses. Or so they tell me. And that's why there was a demonstration. On the day of the match against Fleetwood they were demonstrating! People were not paid bonus money they were due to be paid by you. Incentivised bonuses; you know that, I know that. Did you pay it?
19:38 RD Well, we have introduced the bonus system a few years ago, in fact Katrien the former CEO did introduce a form of bonus system, which was based on er... what the outcome is and er... we paid, for the first time we paid a bonus I think two years ago because then the results were good, we made a profit and so forth, and Katrien basically decided that a bonus should be paid.
But the thing is that this bonus really depends on the results which you make, and if you make a huge loss, which we made the last year hen of course it's obvious that you don't pay a bonus. It's normal.
20:22 JW So if there was a loss incurred, and there was a loss incurred, some people didn't get a bonus payment.
20:28 RD Well they have two types of bonuses; you have bonuses which you are legally bound to pay, of course we pay, we have always paid everybody on time, we have paid people well, and we have paid (unclear) and we have paid some bonuses as well. And definitely if it is contractual bonus which you have to pay, we have always paid them.
But if the bonus... the word itself tells, in fact that it is a bonus, comes as an extra. And this depends really on the management of the club; they decide to pay the bonus or not, it's not something which you get for granted.
21:13 JW So some people still haven't been paid?
21:16 RD They all have been paid.
21:17 JW They all have been paid?
21:18 RD Yeah, well what we had to pay, sure we have paid. But they... OK, that's...
21:25 JW OK, alright. I'll take you on face value at that. Some fans come to Belgium, don't they?
21:31 RD Yeah, yes they do.
21:33 JW You've been confronted here haven't you?
21:35 RD Yes.
21:36 JW What happens? What did they do, and how do you react?
21:40 RD Well, they tend to be very friendly, and (laughs) come to me and chat to me, and you wouldn't think that they are typically older people also. But... they're quite friendly and they chat, and when I also have time then I... sometimes I don't have time... and then I talk to them, and that's basically it.
22:02 JW Have you ever felt in danger?
22:04 RD No.
22:07 JW I wonder now what's gonna happen. What can we tell the supporters who are listening today then Roland, because... you still own the club. You don't go, you can't go, because it would be awkward. Are you still pleased when they win? Do you still celebrate a win?
22:24 RD Sure, I mean... sure that's quite obvious.
22:29 JW I mean if they win today, will that make you happy...
22:33 RD Sure.
22:33 JW ...on a Saturday night. That makes you happier.
22:36 RD Sure.
22:38 JW How often do you speak to Lee Bowyer? Are you in touch with him directly?
22:42 RD Er... not that often, maybe once in a while but then also, typically when there is an issue, then he might phone (unclear) but doesn't happen.
22:53 JW Are you pleased with the job he is doing?
22:55 RD Yes I think he's a very good man, he's a very good character, he is very... I think he is very suitable for Charlton.
23:04 JW So is Charlton still about 2% of what you do? In general terms, as a billionaire businessman you can only devote about 2% of your time to Charlton. Is that still the case?
23:18 RD That is still the case, yes.
23:21 JW So where are you then, are you going to sell it? Are you going to sell the football club?
23:24 RD Yeah sure, we tried for nearly what, more than a year I would guess in the meantime, and it's been very close for every week (laughs) and every day for that time. But it doesn't happen; I must also say that it is not so easy to sell a club during the competition. Because then, what I think, but it's very difficult to really assess this because we don't have enough information.
23:24 RD Yeah sure, we tried for nearly what, more than a year I would guess in the meantime, and it's been very close for every week (laughs) and every day for that time. But it doesn't happen; I must also say that it is not so easy to sell a club during the competition. Because then, what I think, but it's very difficult to really assess this because we don't have enough information.
But what I can guess is that the acquirers, they also watch the results. And they are tempted to change their minds, depending whether you win or you lose, to some extent.
24:04 JW Yeah, the price goes up, the price goes down.
24:07 RD Yeah, and so... (pauses)
24:08 JW What price do you want?
24:11 RD Well... I talk to the people who are interested, and we try to find a compromise. And in fact we had a compromise with what they call... the Australians, and with a few others as well already, so that is not the real issue. The real issue is that er... and that is also something which I addressed not so long ago; that was the problem that if we get the protests, that is a real problem.
If you... because a new owner, a potential owner, is like a wealthy person. Be it English or not English, but in any case the wealthy person or organisation, but typically it's a person... and of course they will reconsider if they see... they know, they are not that stupid. They do their due diligence, they also do their due diligence on me, and they know that I am a decent person, OK...
25:10 JW But the fans are decent too Roland. They're not going to stop protesting.
25:13 RD Erm... well that's...
25:15 JW (interrupts RD) Do you want them to stop protesting, then you'll get a bigger price for the Club?
25:18 RD (laughs) no, no. I think that would help the club to be sold obviously, and that's what I also explained. In fact for people like myself it doesn't matter what exactly you pay for the club, it's er... you have to and er... but what matters is that you can create the future for the club.
25:37 JW I mean that's what I was gonna say. With all due respect you're very wealthy. You're a billionaire. What does it matter what you get for the club, just sell it!
25:44 RD Yes sure, that's what I tried to do.
25:48 JW But sell it!
25:49 RD Yes. That's what I tried to do.
25:51 JW Then it's over.
25:52 RD Yes sure. That's what I tried to do.
25:56 JW You're close to it? The Australian party, have they gone away?
26:00 RD Well, that's what I tried to do for more than a year now.
26:04 JW You say that investing in football, for you, is too irrational. Is it irrational owning Charlton?
(pause. RD begins to say something unclear)
26:18 JW (interrupts RD) Today?
26:19 RD Today I would say it's irrational, yes. Because in fact if you look at what happened, it's really unbelievable from the perspective of er...
26:26 JW (interrupts RD) this is a whole new experience for you; you've never known anything like this, have you? You've only known success.
26:32 RD (unclear) in life, known other things than success as well (laughs) but that's er... the thing; I was not expecting this at all. I am really impressed by the dynamics of what went on... in the sense that basically for the first two years we didn't really have problems because we were successful; we maintained the league, and then we had a second year with good results.
And so it's until the third... basically after two years when we ran into problems because we had too many injuries that er... and that in fact the coach at that time was in fact... maybe an error we made at the time also, to dismiss Guy Luzon, because he was a good coach; he proved it in Liege, but er... the problem was that, then we brought in Karel Fraeye. And this coach was a young coach who knew Charlton Athletic well because he was there together with Jose Riga.
He was a talented coach, but the problem was he was emotionally not strong enough to sustain this criticism, and even aggression, from some of the people at that point in time. And that's where it started to go wrong.
27:53 JW And that's what you mean by 'too irrational'? That's when irrationality comes in.
27:59 RD If you look at the results which he had in the beginning, they were not any worse or any better than... they were in the beginning even a bit better than... (unclear) a fantastic game against Brighton by the way at the time...
28:12 JW Sure. But in spite of all that you find yourself in this situation today. And that's what I'm getting back to. Do you concede that buying Charlton, owning Charlton, was the biggest mistake of your life?
28:27 RD Maybe I'll make even bigger mistakes than that, but was definitely a mistake yeah.
28:32 JW It was, and still is a mistake?
28:33 RD Still is a mistake, of course it's still a mistake.
28:36 JW So if you get the right price you will sell? Even if you don't get the right price, should you not just sell anyway? Because you are saying as long as the fans protest it will put off a prospective buyer. They are not going to stop protesting Roland, they love the club. You can kiss goodbye to Charlton tonight; they'll be there next week. So why not just sell it - for any price?
29:03 RD Well, as I mentioned I tried to sell it, for more than a year right now. And there is no issue with the price, that's not the issue.
29:10 JW What is the price?
29:12 RD That doesn't matter. But what I wanted to say about that also, is that if you look at the situation... so this protesting you refer to. So the people promoting the protests, when they started protests in the period when we were relegated. In fact we were just relegated, with a few points.
Now my question is did the protests help to keep us up? Did the protests not influence our young players, when they have to play a game, were they not... were they on the full 100% of all their capacities, when they were throwing toys on the pitch. When they were trying to interrupt the game. Where there was a danger where we would lose three points because the referees would decide that it was impossible to continue the game.
Was this an action in favour of the club, to keep the league... to keep us up in the Championship? That's the question which all fans need to answer; were they well advised or ill advised by following the protests at that time, with regard to keeping up, in the Championship?
30:30 JW But you and I know why they were protesting. They want you out.
30:34 RD Absolutely. And in fact they would want me so much out, that they thought, some of them... most of the fans of course not, but some of them felt that it was essential that even if we would be relegated, that would be the best solution to get me out. That's how far they drove the logic, which is... and now of course we see that it is not easy at all to come back.
But maybe in the first place they should have thought a little bit better about organising these protests, because maybe without these protests they have... was maybe a chance we would have kept the league...
31:13 JW So you're saying the fans who protested are partly to blame for the predicament the club is in at the moment.
31:21 RD Well... that's one example where... I don't say they are. But they were... and I think they... One should think today about; were these protests helpful to keep Charlton in Championship or not. Were they helpful for the players? Can young players understand that, on one hand they are protesting against the owner, but they are not protesting against the team?
31:21 RD Well... that's one example where... I don't say they are. But they were... and I think they... One should think today about; were these protests helpful to keep Charlton in Championship or not. Were they helpful for the players? Can young players understand that, on one hand they are protesting against the owner, but they are not protesting against the team?
Is it possible for young players to understand these detail (unclear) these differences and so forth? I'm not sure. And so that's one question. And the other thing is; when we were then relegated, we decided 'OK this time we will take an English coach'. Yeah? We decided... in fact we were preparing for a while already, to take an English coach. And then we selected, in our view, the most... interesting English coach at the time; Chris Wilder. Yeah?
32:23 JW Chris Wilder.
32:24 RD And then er... was in April, May... 4th May I think it was, we flew into Belgium. In fact we met with him and he agreed to come to Charlton...
32:39 JW This was when, when was this?
32:40 RD That was in May 2016, so when we were relegated. And he was very optimistic, and we signed also with him. And... at the day that he was due to give a press conference, he didn't show up. And now I will ask you to read something aloud, huh? which was written by Rick Everitt... this here.
33:08 JW This was written by Rick Everitt, of the Coalition.
33:13 RD Yes.
33:14 JW (reading) "Wilder in turn did proper due diligence on the approach, contacting a variety of people with insight into the situation at the Valley, so he could understand what he'd be walking into. Their advice was hardly going to be positive but he did nothing to abort the process as it gathered steam this week... with coordinated announcements by the two clubs, and further discussions with Katrien Meire herself."
33:38 RD And then if you look at the same time, at the... one of the important fora, which is Charlton Life, then at the same time you did see indeed what the reaction of the fans was. With er... before he was coming and what they felt when it was more or less coming close. And I want you to read also this sentence, and that one, from the fans on the forum.
34:01 JW And this is fans is it? This is fans forum... (reads) "Personally I think he must be mad. Why oh why would anyone want to come to Charlton under this toxic regime?" "They've seen what's going on at our club and the reasons why we're in such a poor position, the customers complaining, an interfering owner..." that's you. "...and a CEO who lies. Whoever comes in needs the same treatment as Roland the liar."
34:26 RD The liar in this case is Katrien I would think, huh? But it doesn't matter...
34:30 JW (interrupts RD) So what you're saying is those fans put Chris Wilder off taking the job.
34:33 RD Well, that's what Everitt says. Rick Everitt says it. He did his due diligence, he found that the fans were against him and he didn't come.
34:43 JW And he didn't come.
34:44 RD What is the position now of Chris Wilder, is he successful or not?
34:49 JW He's doing very well at Sheffield United.
34:51 RD Thank you.
34:54 JW Will you still be the owner at the end of this season?
34:57 RD I hope not. But... the reason I mentioned the incident also with Chris Wilder is, we had in fact everything in place to go up again the next year, but it was in fact... well, you know now who was responsible that it didn't happen. OK?
35:12 JW OK. So...
35:13 RD (interrupts JW) And then the thing is that we were... of course we were hugely er... in problems with that, because everything was planned to have Chris Wilder, and also we were looking at players which he had recommended and so forth, and then we had to re-do everything. And we lost maybe six weeks, and then we took another coach, and then so forth, and...
35:37 JW (interrupts RD) So what you're saying Roland is that the fans poisoned Wilder's mind...
35:41 RD Sure.
35:41 JW ...And put him off.
35:43 RD Well, that's my theory. You just did read it aloud for everybody in England, you know.
35:50 JW OK. So you don't want to be the owner, come the end of the season. You want it sold by then.
35:55 RD I hope, earlier than... (laughs) but OK. The point is you have to have finally somebody who is completing the purchase, and that's not happening so far but I still hope, we have good hopes because there are still several interested parties looking at it, and so they hope they will complete soon.
36:21 JW We're going to finish shortly. Are you very sad, how sad are you at this situation? It's such a sad story, your ownership of this football club.
36:33 RD I will make a difference between myself and the fans. I'm in fact very sad for the fans. Because it could have been another story. So and I think I feel guilty, because we didn't inform them properly about what was going on at the time. So that's very, very sad. For myself it is clear that, OK I have... because of the... for the fans it's very sad because Charlton is their life.
For me Charlton is something which I was interested in, which I funded, and so if I lost some money OK, but that's... for me it's not my life. And in that sense of course it's a kind of well... sad thing. Indeed the fans suffer more than I do, and OK that's a problem but OK. And certainly we did some mistakes, as everybody does... The big, big issue is that we failed to communicate well with our fans.
37:38 JW What's your final message? This is my final point, I cannot thank you enough for opening up and being as honest as you have been, and you have been, Roland. What's your fin... Use this moment Roland, what's your final message to all the Charlton fans who are listening today? Who probably cannot believe I'm talking to you here. What do you want to say to them?
38:00 RD Well, let's hope that we go up again this year.
38:05 JW And then it's goodbye from you?
38:07 RD Yes, sure... (unclear) (laughs) sure that would be better of course... (unclear) But I'm not important really. They are important, this relationship with the club. I've been just there by accident so to speak, and I try to help; OK it's not good enough apparently, and I will leave them. But still for them the club is far more important than for me.
38:29 JW And you're talking to the EFL as well aren't you; there are talks ongoing, I mean it might happen sooner or later.
38:35 RD Well they don't have... well they will not buy the club obviously, the EFL...
38:38 JW No, you need a buyer.
38:40 RD Yeah yeah, but (unclear) that's not really... we will see how it goes. We have still a similar situation now, as the one which we have basically had for the last year or so. But at least er...
38:55 JW What, a buyer?
38:57 RD Well yeah, we have our buyers but OK, then it has to be finalised somehow. That's what we're waiting for now.
39:04 JW It's a difficult subject, an emotional subject. And I can see you're emotional about it, because it affects you. I wanna thank you very, very much for spending time with us, and speaking so honestly and openly. I really mean that.
Comments
Of course finding another Curbs was not an easy undertaking, so maybe the approach was understandable. When you look back on Curbs he didn't just manage the team. He managed the club. He clearly saw the fans as the extra player and managed us too. I recall many a telling off from Curbs when he thought we weren't doing our job properly. It was a criminal waste that the guy's career fell flat after he took West Ham to a tribunal (which he won). The bloke was a great manager, one of the best. Certainly the best we have ever had. Not an easy act to follow.
What we saw after Curbs leaving was how much harder it is for a chairman to drive the rally car rather than support a great driver by sitting next to him in the passenger seat. I believe the ego of Murray made him believe he was just as important an ingredient in our success as Curbs. True Curbs would not have been able to achieve what he did under Roland, but Murray did a great job as chairman because he focused on the financials, trusted the manager to be sensible, and the club was in synergy.
Murray without Curbs was shown to be completely out of his depth. I think he derailed Pardew by allowing Reid to go when we were fighting to return that first season after relegation. Decisions since then have been inept and from being one of the best chairmen he became one of the worst. His biggest failing has always been that he cannot see it for what it is. Without a Curbs to hang on to, Murray has shown that he has an ability to be truly incompetent. Siding himself with the owner, I'm sure in his eyes for the betterment of the club, is just another example of this. If I could give him a gift, it would be the insight to know that he isn't as good as he thinks he is (in the context of football only I must stress). That isn't a bad thing, if you know your limitations, you can be very effective working within them, as he was under the great Curbs.
At that time Charlton were labelled the best run club in the country and the club others outside the very top ones should aspire to be. For a short time, just before Parker was sold, we were without doubt the fourth best team in the country FFS! Whilst Murray was a key part of this, his issue was that he believed this was because of him. To be fair it was, but only because his position was to support a manager with vision and prodigious ability. He did spot that ability, and he did nurture it. We can't take it away from him - but without Curbs Murray is a footballing disaster. That is sadly the fact he needs to accept!
We will always owe a debt to RM, for the nineties and Prem years, but he has blown it considerably in the last ten years and really ought to take a back step now and let things happen without his own interference.
I do sometimes visit the other site that cannot be named, and saw an interesting post from Reams - I respect his football knowledge greatly but not everything else he says. Anyway, he made the point that the fans of Sheffield United were better than ours in the context of the Wilder discussion. Another poster corrected him and mentioned the Curbs years. I think we can call them the Curbs and Murray years. We were the best fans in the country then in terms of supporting the team - of that I have no doubt. I can recall games the fans won! Managers like Sir Alex commented on this. We were the best fans - we aren't now - Murray was the best chairman - Curbs was the best manager.
Murray was instrumental in that period, we all had a part to play and we played the right parts. The chairman and board did their job, the players did theirs, the fans did theirs and we let the Captain steer the ship. What made the fans so great is the same ingredient that got us back to the Valley and it is the same ingredient to the protests. The qualities are all there, but they are being forced in teh wrong direction. A new owner has an amazing opportunity to tap into that special quality whist the dying embers are still burning.
Evidently, at one point Duchatelet implies that young players cannot differentiate between criticism of him from that of the team.
What unadulterated arrogance from the man.
For the record (although I can't recall which 'protest' game it was) I saw a group of Charlton youth players in tracksuits outside The Valley, one of whom was wearing a black and white scarf.
Curbs’ brother, the music mogul, stated at the time that he felt Alan deserved more money and backing from the chairman, which somehow Dowie later got on the back of a good season or two with palace.
Hindsight is easy, but if Curbs had kept us up another season until the TV money kicked in, who knows what might have happened.
And it's been used as a stick to bash Charlton fans with ever since.
He's teamed up with RM on a couple of new sport radio stations - but it's the other 'funders' of this venture that interest me, what with one owning a football club and one owning a rugby club.
I can post it here if members are interested - assuming such a transcript is allowed.
Part 1 of 5 (first 8 minutes)
Note:
RD often speaks rapidly and continuously in very long sentences.
In order to make his replies easier to read I have sometimes broken them down into short two or three line paragraphs.
No words have been changed.
Occasionally he hesitates or repeats words as most of us do when speaking at length or formulating what we are trying to say as we speak. The only words removed are these occasional repetitions, which were unintentional and don't add anything to what is being said.
___
00:00 JW
Back in 2014 you decided to buy Charlton Athletic Football Club. What was your intention then for the Club when you bought it?
00:08 RD
Well if you think about football in general, what you see is that England is really on the top of world football today, because in England for example there's no match fixing, you have very good referees... they make mistakes once in a while... they are outstanding compared to other countries.
There are a few other countries which are quite good also like Germany and in the meantime Spain is also very good, France is OK. But it's quite clear that England is a very good example with regard to the quality of the game in many respects.
And I thought maybe in football we should do the same as in other businesses where you have different branches in different countries, and create a network of clubs that would also help, for example, to build the careers of young players which we have at Charlton for example, and if for example they cannot join the first team at Charlton, maybe they could in Carl Zeiss Jena in Germany...
And so you can create synergies, you can create efficiencies, by having a network of clubs... and by the way other clubs are doing this as well...
01:20 JW (interrupts RD)
Yes of course; players from one club going to another club... yes OK I understand.
01:25 RD
So and, er, that's the reason why I... (unclear)... definitely England is a very good choice, and within England of course London is a very good choice, and then at the time they told me, well, the best possible fans and the best possible club in England is Charlton.
Also because of the Community Trust which is outstanding, not just in England or in London but worldwide. I think England has also made the biggest advance in community... in linking the community to football clubs, and it's quite clear that football has a big, big, big social mission.
And Charlton was a very, very good example of that, and that's the reason why I was... quickly convinced that Charlton was the right club to own in England.
02:16 JW
So for a whole variety of aspects you bought... what did you pay for the club?
02:19 RD
Well... that is not important at this stage, but it's clear that every football club is... has a cost, not just in terms of buying the club, but also in terms of operating the club. And you know the problem is that... the main thing is that you need to be prepared to lose millions of pounds a year, if you own a club.
And by the way, this is in fact one of the problems of English football. For example in the Championship the situation is that, I think, nearly all the clubs lose money, and when I joined England so to speak, as a football owner, at the time there was also a financial fair play system in the Championship, which they suppressed (unclear) in time, but that is a very unhealthy aspect in English football, that even from the Premier League clubs, half of them lose money and I think this is a big problem English football needs to fix.
The other thing which is also interesting if you start thinking about football as a business in England; I think it's... few people know that in the meantime the added value of English football is coming close to the added value of agriculture in England.
So it is big, and important thing for England... and I think it's also very important that they fix the problem of all these losses which are made by the owners, because it's not very attractive for the owners who want to invest in English football - that they have to cope with severe losses every year, in this kind of... well... activity.
04:11 JW
I see, OK. You're taking me in various directions, which is great. At the time when you bought the club, did you think 'yeah, these are good fans, decent fans, I like them'?
04:22 RD
Absolutely. I still think they are very good fans.
04:26 JW
You still think they are very good fans?
04:28 RD
Yes, I do think they are very good fans. I think the problem is that at a given point in time we were not responsive enough, our communications team was not responsive enough to the... things which were said about us and about Katrien, which were untrue...
04:50 JW
Katrien Meire, your CEO...
04:52 RD
...CEO At the time. Yeah, and so we were not responsive at all...
04:55 JW
But at the beginning Roland, you thought 'this is good, I can get on with these people, the fans are great' and you still think that?
05:02 RD
I still think that, yes. I still think that because you can't help people thinking you know, they have to think, if they are ill-informed it's logical that they make wrong decisions, in terms of what they should... think. And so in fact we are also to blame because we didn't inform them very well.
It's just lately that I decided 'OK now this is finished, we will inform the people about what reality is'. And we saw the example recently that in fact people started to think also, and in fact I am very happy that it is quite clear that the brains of our fans still work properly and that they can make their own conclusions.
Now of course there is some work to be done in the future, but on the other hand also we need to be realistic; the mismanagement which we did with regard to communication has led us into the situation where I am not desired anymore as an owner. I'm OK that's not a big deal, I will find another owner, it just takes a bit longer than I would have expected.
06:05 JW
Well I'm going to talk to you about that. You think early on the communications wasn't good enough; the communication between the club, between you and the supporters. And that is where the problem began, that's what you're saying.
06:18 RD
Absolutely. Now you have also to realise that in fact Charlton for me is about er... is less than 2% of the total activities which I have with other companies and other football clubs, and is less than 2% of the employees. But of course from the perspective of a fan of Charlton, who dreams day and night of being the big boss of the football club, he cannot imagine that the big boss of the football club has only 2% of time for his football Club.
Now I did spend a lot of time in the very beginning, to understand what the problems were and to decide what we were going to. But of course I cannot continue to spend a lot of time, so after three, four months I did give it in the hands of a CEO, which is a person I did trust...
07:08 JW (interrupts RD)
Katrien Meire...
07:09 RD
Yes, but on the other hand also, my desire was to work in the continuity of the club. And that is also the reason why I didn't become the President of the club. And secondly I asked Richard Murray, which was really... in my mind carried the history of the club, to become the President of the club and to help us in managing the club. And he was very, very helpful to help us in making major decisions at that point in time.
07:39 JW
But of course, you had so many managerial appointments when I look back at it. I mean Chris Powell went, and that proved to be very unpopular. Jose Riga, Bob Peeters; he was sacked after 25 games. Guy Luzon, Karel Fraeye. Riga came back. Then we've Russell Slade, Karl Robinson... It goes on.
Lee Bowyer has given you stability, but the supporters Roland are thinking 'what on earth is going on?'
(end of part 1)
Part 2 of 5
07:39 JW
But of course, you had so many managerial appointments when I look back at it. I mean Chris Powell went, and that proved to be very unpopular. Jose Riga, Bob Peeters; he was sacked after 25 games. Guy Luzon, Karel Fraeye. Riga came back. Then we've Russell Slade, Karl Robinson... It goes on.
Lee Bowyer has given you stability, but the supporters Roland are thinking 'what on earth is going on?'
08:06 RD
Well, it's er...
08:07 JW (interrupts RD)
Were you making these appointments?
08:09 RD
Well... when we took over we were determined to keep Chris Powell the manager at the time. We wanted to keep him, we thought he was excellent for the club. And so we also tried to seriously work with him at the time, now you remember that Charlton was not doing very well in terms of results. And also there was another incident, and that's also the problem, that people do not know everything and you cannot tell everything to the people.
At that point in time there was a major player of the team who we took over in January, the beginning of January, so we had one month to fix the problem. Basically it's not a long period of time, and we couldn't do much work in advance. Was one player who had a very poor contract, in the sense that when he would play less than 25 games in that season, he was free. And this contract would not be prolonged.
That was a big problem; and so basically this player said 'well maybe I will get ill if you don't give me a new contract'.
09:22 JW
Maybe he'll get ill? Right, OK.
09:25 RD
And that's not the kind of games you have to play with me. So I said 'OK well this player has to go' and we could manage to sell him at that point in time. But then of course it was mandatory to get in other players, which to effect keep the team up, and that's what we did.
And then we felt that Chris Powell was not such an enthusiastic user of the players, which we didn't even... well, had problems to communicate about this, was difficult to reach, so then finally, rather than give him a new contract - because we were negotiating with him to give him a new contract - this, the main reason why we finally didn't give him a new contract was A) he wanted his two assistants to have a similar new contract with an improvement salary, and second thing is that he didn't really... want to discuss with our analysts about what to do and not to do.
So then of course, if you are last of the league, and you are in that situation; in fact we were running out of possibilities to continue to work with him. And that's the reason why I brought in Jose Riga, which is really a friend to me, because I know him so well, he worked in Standard with me. He helped us out and he got to 1.5 points per game, which was very good at the time, the fans were very pleased with the result and they wanted Jose Riga to stay after that season. Because in fact he saved the club.
And erm... I decided not to keep him, for two reasons; the first reason is because he is a real family man and he was in... most of the time he was in London alone in a hotel and suffered, and his family was not there. That was not a good situation, long term.
And then I also thought 'OK, well the fans want to have a more British kind of influence in... from the coach, and we had a coach which was... who had played in Millwall in Championship at the time. He also was very fluent in English and that was not a problem at all. He knew the competition..."
11:48 JW
This was Bob Peeters...
11:49 RD
Yes. So you know in this kind of...
11:51 JW (interrupts RD)
We're not going top go through each... we're not going to talk about each...
11:53 RD (interrupts JW. They speak over each other for a few seconds)
Well it's (unclear) you understand in fact it's...
11:55 JW (interrupts RD)
Yes but to the fans Roland, that looks like mismanagement.
11:59 RD
Yes but that's the reason why, I try to explain why, if you have a new owner he wants also to go step by step. Is an English manager which you don't really know very well the best choice (unclear)... I'm not even sure, because the majority of managers in the Premier League are not English managers, they are... I must admit there are as many Scots, they aren't English huh?
And so what it means is that it is not a natural choice, to believe that you need an English manager to be successful. Quite to the contrary, the history proves that in many instances have been otherwise. So I'm not tempted to believe that this is mandatory, but that's the reason why we took that step.
12:48 JW
I understand that... throughout that period of these managers coming and going, can you say hand on heart you didn't get involved in team selection? Did you leave it to the managers... did you ever try to pick players for the team?
13:00 RD
Well, I... we haven't, you know that it's... you know that with... (laughs) I just told you I have only 2% of my activities in football, in Charlton, so I didn't really have the time to be involved. So some people of us, were of course working also on making suggestions of which players to pick and so forth. And even in the e-mail which was released basically by... I must think it was a former manager who released that, in fact it is clearly written that this is a suggestion.
So the claim that we imposed some players to be played is totally wrong. And it is proven to be wrong by the very e-mail which was published at the time.
13:47 JW
So you never get involved in team selection, you would totally deny that.
13:50 RD
Involved? Yes, in a sense that I was... especially my people were suggesting to play in some ways, or...
13:59 JW
suggesting to the coach, suggesting...
14:01 RD
Suggesting, yeah sure...
14:02 JW (interrupts RD)
But not demanding.
14:03 RD
Not demanding.
14:06 JW
Could you ever have envisaged it would get so bad. You're now sitting here in Brussels, Charlton play today! You can't go.
14:16 RD
Yes...
14:17 JW (interrupts RD)
You can't go? Or won't go... I mean, would you consider going?
14:21 RD
I even can't consider going in these circumstances because it's not... but OK that's not a problem, I mean I don't have the time anyway to go to many games, and also the other clubs like Alcorcon in Spain and so forth, I don't go very often there either. So...
14:40 JW (interrupts RD)
But Charlton Athletic is still your club. You're the owner. Is it not crazy that you don't go, to see how things are going, how the team is playing?
14:49 RD
Yeah...
14:49 JW (interrupts RD)
The fans go every week.
14:50 RD
Yes sure, but OK I'm... that's er... I have also other activities to do, I have other things which I want to do. So it's not too bad if I can't go; of course it's a pity but it's not too bad.
15:05 JW
I mean er... are you scared to go?
15:09 RD
Er... today I think I wouldn't be scared to go, but there have been moments when it really was not very appealing for me to go, because you don't... you never know. And I think the problem is that in such circumstances it is better not to go.
15:24 JW
And yet you still say... you still have strong feelings for those supporters? And yet they tell me - a vast majority of them - hate you.
15:34 RD
Yeah, that's true. I also... I think that very many hate me, but the problem is that is a consequence of our... of us not being good in our communication. We were, in a way, our communication as I would say (unclear) too soft; when people were saying things which were untrue about what was going on, we didn't react because our communications team did recommend us to say 'well no, you have to be nice with the fans' and so forth and don't contradict them because it won't help, and that's the reason why in fact we didn't react properly.
(end of part 2)
Part 3 of 5
15:34 RD
Yeah, that's true. I also... I think that very many hate me, but the problem is that is a consequence of our... of us not being good in our communication. We were, in a way, our communication as I would say (unclear) too soft; when people were saying things which were untrue about what was going on, we didn't react because our communications team did recommend us to say 'well no, you have to be nice with the fans' and so forth and don't contradict them because it won't help, and that's the reason why in fact we didn't react properly.
So that was bad, and that was... of course it was also us who had to react in a different way. But OK that is the past now, and due to this miscommunication we have created the situation where some people, mainly this Mr Everitt, who is er... has been created... has created a movement against...
16:41 JW
The Coalition...
16:42 RD
Yeah the Coalition, first against Katrien Meire, and as I think Katrien is a fantastic woman, and...
16:48 JW (interrupts RD)
And she's now at Sheffield Wednesday isn't she...
16:49 RD
Yes, and very good moral qualities...
16:52 JW (interrupts RD)
But Everitt and the rest of the fans felt they had to do that.
16:55 RD
Yes, and in fact er...
16:56 JW (interrupts RD)
And you've reprimanded them for it.
16:58 RD
Yes, and I did stand behind Katrien Meire the former CEO because I felt she did nothing wrong, quite to the contrary she did her very best and... in fact the people to blame at the time were these communication people in the first place, not Katrien Meire.
17:14 JW
But Roland why didn't you get hold of the communication team? Why didn't you recognise that problem then, this ridic... we wouldn't be in this situation today if you had.
17:23 RD
Well we really... in fact we did recognise it at the time already, but the problem is that it's er... it was not easy to change this. And in fact we did some changes that... we did three basically; some changes in communications team, but nevertheless it is still not so easy because from a mentality point of view... it's very strange, it's maybe British I don't know, but people don't say the truth when you have to say the truth.
And so lately I said 'now it's finished now. We have to say the truth huh, and then we'll see what happens. I don't care, but we have to stop letting other people saying things which are not true.
18:07 JW
And when you say it's finished do you mean your time at the Club is close to being finished?
18:12 RD
Yes but in any case. But I don't... I think it's also good that now we just say 'if there is stupid things which are untrue, that we just contradict them'. Which was something which the former communications team did not want to do.
18:30 JW
Well, what is true? Is it true you put £60 million of your own money into the football Club?
18:36 RD
Of course (unclear) put a lot of money in the...
18:39 JW (interrupts RD)
About sixty? That's a lot of money.
18:40 RD
Every club in the... every owner in the English... and that's a problem that I addressed formerly, has to put a lot of money into the football club. And that's not healthy. In the end of the day this is a big problem which needs to be solved. We addressed that problem already.
18:59 JW
What else is true? Are you still investing in the football club? Do you still put your own money in the club?
19:05 RD
Yeah sure. Of course we cannot stop investing, and I think we have made a very competitive team also this year, that's good that we do that.
19:15 JW
So you're still investing, you're still putting money - your own money - in. And yet people, until recently, weren't paid bonuses. Or so they tell me. And that's why there was a demonstration. On the day of the match against Fleetwood they were demonstrating! People were not paid bonus money they were due to be paid by you. Incentivised bonuses; you know that, I know that. Did you pay it?
19:38 RD
Well, we have introduced the bonus system a few years ago, in fact Katrien the former CEO did introduce a form of bonus system, which was based on er... what the outcome is and er... we paid, for the first time we paid a bonus I think two years ago because then the results were good, we made a profit and so forth, and Katrien basically decided that a bonus should be paid.
But the thing is that this bonus really depends on the results which you make, and if you make a huge loss, which we made the last year hen of course it's obvious that you don't pay a bonus. It's normal.
20:22 JW
So if there was a loss incurred, and there was a loss incurred, some people didn't get a bonus payment.
20:28 RD
Well they have two types of bonuses; you have bonuses which you are legally bound to pay, of course we pay, we have always paid everybody on time, we have paid people well, and we have paid (unclear) and we have paid some bonuses as well. And definitely if it is contractual bonus which you have to pay, we have always paid them.
But if the bonus... the word itself tells, in fact that it is a bonus, comes as an extra. And this depends really on the management of the club; they decide to pay the bonus or not, it's not something which you get for granted.
21:13 JW
So some people still haven't been paid?
21:16 RD
They all have been paid.
21:17 JW
They all have been paid?
21:18 RD
Yeah, well what we had to pay, sure we have paid. But they... OK, that's...
21:25 JW
OK, alright. I'll take you on face value at that. Some fans come to Belgium, don't they?
21:31 RD
Yeah, yes they do.
21:33 JW
You've been confronted here haven't you?
21:35 RD
Yes.
21:36 JW
What happens? What did they do, and how do you react?
21:40 RD
Well, they tend to be very friendly, and (laughs) come to me and chat to me, and you wouldn't think that they are typically older people also. But... they're quite friendly and they chat, and when I also have time then I... sometimes I don't have time... and then I talk to them, and that's basically it.
22:02 JW
Have you ever felt in danger?
22:04 RD
No.
22:07 JW
I wonder now what's gonna happen. What can we tell the supporters who are listening today then Roland, because... you still own the club. You don't go, you can't go, because it would be awkward. Are you still pleased when they win? Do you still celebrate a win?
22:24 RD
Sure, I mean... sure that's quite obvious.
22:29 JW
I mean if they win today, will that make you happy...
22:33 RD
Sure.
22:33 JW
...on a Saturday night. That makes you happier.
22:36 RD
Sure.
22:38 JW
How often do you speak to Lee Bowyer? Are you in touch with him directly?
22:42 RD
Er... not that often, maybe once in a while but then also, typically when there is an issue, then he might phone (unclear) but doesn't happen.
22:53 JW
Are you pleased with the job he is doing?
22:55 RD
Yes I think he's a very good man, he's a very good character, he is very... I think he is very suitable for Charlton.
23:04 JW
So is Charlton still about 2% of what you do? In general terms, as a billionaire businessman you can only devote about 2% of your time to Charlton. Is that still the case?
23:18 RD
That is still the case, yes.
23:21 JW
So where are you then, are you going to sell it? Are you going to sell the football club?
23:24 RD
Yeah sure, we tried for nearly what, more than a year I would guess in the meantime, and it's been very close for every week (laughs) and every day for that time. But it doesn't happen; I must also say that it is not so easy to sell a club during the competition. Because then, what I think, but it's very difficult to really assess this because we don't have enough information.
(end of part 3)
Part 4 of 5
23:24 RD
Yeah sure, we tried for nearly what, more than a year I would guess in the meantime, and it's been very close for every week (laughs) and every day for that time. But it doesn't happen; I must also say that it is not so easy to sell a club during the competition. Because then, what I think, but it's very difficult to really assess this because we don't have enough information.
But what I can guess is that the acquirers, they also watch the results. And they are tempted to change their minds, depending whether you win or you lose, to some extent.
24:04 JW
Yeah, the price goes up, the price goes down.
24:07 RD
Yeah, and so... (pauses)
24:08 JW
What price do you want?
24:11 RD
Well... I talk to the people who are interested, and we try to find a compromise. And in fact we had a compromise with what they call... the Australians, and with a few others as well already, so that is not the real issue. The real issue is that er... and that is also something which I addressed not so long ago; that was the problem that if we get the protests, that is a real problem.
If you... because a new owner, a potential owner, is like a wealthy person. Be it English or not English, but in any case the wealthy person or organisation, but typically it's a person... and of course they will reconsider if they see... they know, they are not that stupid. They do their due diligence, they also do their due diligence on me, and they know that I am a decent person, OK...
25:10 JW
But the fans are decent too Roland. They're not going to stop protesting.
25:13 RD
Erm... well that's...
25:15 JW (interrupts RD)
Do you want them to stop protesting, then you'll get a bigger price for the Club?
25:18 RD
(laughs) no, no. I think that would help the club to be sold obviously, and that's what I also explained. In fact for people like myself it doesn't matter what exactly you pay for the club, it's er... you have to and er... but what matters is that you can create the future for the club.
25:37 JW
I mean that's what I was gonna say. With all due respect you're very wealthy. You're a billionaire. What does it matter what you get for the club, just sell it!
25:44 RD
Yes sure, that's what I tried to do.
25:48 JW
But sell it!
25:49 RD
Yes. That's what I tried to do.
25:51 JW
Then it's over.
25:52 RD
Yes sure. That's what I tried to do.
25:56 JW
You're close to it? The Australian party, have they gone away?
26:00 RD
Well, that's what I tried to do for more than a year now.
26:04 JW
You say that investing in football, for you, is too irrational. Is it irrational owning Charlton?
(pause. RD begins to say something unclear)
26:18 JW (interrupts RD)
Today?
26:19 RD
Today I would say it's irrational, yes. Because in fact if you look at what happened, it's really unbelievable from the perspective of er...
26:26 JW (interrupts RD)
this is a whole new experience for you; you've never known anything like this, have you? You've only known success.
26:32 RD
(unclear) in life, known other things than success as well (laughs) but that's er... the thing; I was not expecting this at all. I am really impressed by the dynamics of what went on... in the sense that basically for the first two years we didn't really have problems because we were successful; we maintained the league, and then we had a second year with good results.
And so it's until the third... basically after two years when we ran into problems because we had too many injuries that er... and that in fact the coach at that time was in fact... maybe an error we made at the time also, to dismiss Guy Luzon, because he was a good coach; he proved it in Liege, but er... the problem was that, then we brought in Karel Fraeye. And this coach was a young coach who knew Charlton Athletic well because he was there together with Jose Riga.
He was a talented coach, but the problem was he was emotionally not strong enough to sustain this criticism, and even aggression, from some of the people at that point in time. And that's where it started to go wrong.
27:53 JW
And that's what you mean by 'too irrational'? That's when irrationality comes in.
27:59 RD
If you look at the results which he had in the beginning, they were not any worse or any better than... they were in the beginning even a bit better than... (unclear) a fantastic game against Brighton by the way at the time...
28:12 JW
Sure. But in spite of all that you find yourself in this situation today. And that's what I'm getting back to. Do you concede that buying Charlton, owning Charlton, was the biggest mistake of your life?
28:27 RD
Maybe I'll make even bigger mistakes than that, but was definitely a mistake yeah.
28:32 JW
It was, and still is a mistake?
28:33 RD
Still is a mistake, of course it's still a mistake.
28:36 JW
So if you get the right price you will sell? Even if you don't get the right price, should you not just sell anyway? Because you are saying as long as the fans protest it will put off a prospective buyer.
They are not going to stop protesting Roland, they love the club. You can kiss goodbye to Charlton tonight; they'll be there next week. So why not just sell it - for any price?
29:03 RD
Well, as I mentioned I tried to sell it, for more than a year right now. And there is no issue with the price, that's not the issue.
29:10 JW
What is the price?
29:12 RD
That doesn't matter. But what I wanted to say about that also, is that if you look at the situation... so this protesting you refer to. So the people promoting the protests, when they started protests in the period when we were relegated. In fact we were just relegated, with a few points.
Now my question is did the protests help to keep us up? Did the protests not influence our young players, when they have to play a game, were they not... were they on the full 100% of all their capacities, when they were throwing toys on the pitch. When they were trying to interrupt the game. Where there was a danger where we would lose three points because the referees would decide that it was impossible to continue the game.
Was this an action in favour of the club, to keep the league... to keep us up in the Championship? That's the question which all fans need to answer; were they well advised or ill advised by following the protests at that time, with regard to keeping up, in the Championship?
30:30 JW
But you and I know why they were protesting. They want you out.
30:34 RD
Absolutely. And in fact they would want me so much out, that they thought, some of them... most of the fans of course not, but some of them felt that it was essential that even if we would be relegated, that would be the best solution to get me out. That's how far they drove the logic, which is... and now of course we see that it is not easy at all to come back.
But maybe in the first place they should have thought a little bit better about organising these protests, because maybe without these protests they have... was maybe a chance we would have kept the league...
31:13 JW
So you're saying the fans who protested are partly to blame for the predicament the club is in at the moment.
31:21 RD
Well... that's one example where... I don't say they are. But they were... and I think they... One should think today about; were these protests helpful to keep Charlton in Championship or not. Were they helpful for the players? Can young players understand that, on one hand they are protesting against the owner, but they are not protesting against the team?
(end of part 4)
Part 5 of 5
31:21 RD
Well... that's one example where... I don't say they are. But they were... and I think they... One should think today about; were these protests helpful to keep Charlton in Championship or not. Were they helpful for the players? Can young players understand that, on one hand they are protesting against the owner, but they are not protesting against the team?
Is it possible for young players to understand these detail (unclear) these differences and so forth? I'm not sure. And so that's one question. And the other thing is; when we were then relegated, we decided 'OK this time we will take an English coach'. Yeah? We decided... in fact we were preparing for a while already, to take an English coach. And then we selected, in our view, the most... interesting English coach at the time; Chris Wilder. Yeah?
32:23 JW
Chris Wilder.
32:24 RD
And then er... was in April, May... 4th May I think it was, we flew into Belgium. In fact we met with him and he agreed to come to Charlton...
32:39 JW
This was when, when was this?
32:40 RD
That was in May 2016, so when we were relegated. And he was very optimistic, and we signed also with him. And... at the day that he was due to give a press conference, he didn't show up. And now I will ask you to read something aloud, huh? which was written by Rick Everitt... this here.
33:08 JW
This was written by Rick Everitt, of the Coalition.
33:13 RD
Yes.
33:14 JW (reading)
"Wilder in turn did proper due diligence on the approach, contacting a variety of people with insight into the situation at the Valley, so he could understand what he'd be walking into. Their advice was hardly going to be positive but he did nothing to abort the process as it gathered steam this week... with coordinated announcements by the two clubs, and further discussions with Katrien Meire herself."
33:38 RD
And then if you look at the same time, at the... one of the important fora, which is Charlton Life, then at the same time you did see indeed what the reaction of the fans was. With er... before he was coming and what they felt when it was more or less coming close. And I want you to read also this sentence, and that one, from the fans on the forum.
34:01 JW
And this is fans is it? This is fans forum... (reads)
"Personally I think he must be mad. Why oh why would anyone want to come to Charlton under this toxic regime?"
"They've seen what's going on at our club and the reasons why we're in such a poor position, the customers complaining, an interfering owner..." that's you. "...and a CEO who lies. Whoever comes in needs the same treatment as Roland the liar."
34:26 RD
The liar in this case is Katrien I would think, huh? But it doesn't matter...
34:30 JW (interrupts RD)
So what you're saying is those fans put Chris Wilder off taking the job.
34:33 RD
Well, that's what Everitt says. Rick Everitt says it. He did his due diligence, he found that the fans were against him and he didn't come.
34:43 JW
And he didn't come.
34:44 RD
What is the position now of Chris Wilder, is he successful or not?
34:49 JW
He's doing very well at Sheffield United.
34:51 RD
Thank you.
34:54 JW
Will you still be the owner at the end of this season?
34:57 RD
I hope not. But... the reason I mentioned the incident also with Chris Wilder is, we had in fact everything in place to go up again the next year, but it was in fact... well, you know now who was responsible that it didn't happen. OK?
35:12 JW
OK. So...
35:13 RD (interrupts JW)
And then the thing is that we were... of course we were hugely er... in problems with that, because everything was planned to have Chris Wilder, and also we were looking at players which he had recommended and so forth, and then we had to re-do everything. And we lost maybe six weeks, and then we took another coach, and then so forth, and...
35:37 JW (interrupts RD)
So what you're saying Roland is that the fans poisoned Wilder's mind...
35:41 RD
Sure.
35:41 JW
...And put him off.
35:43 RD
Well, that's my theory. You just did read it aloud for everybody in England, you know.
35:50 JW
OK. So you don't want to be the owner, come the end of the season. You want it sold by then.
35:55 RD
I hope, earlier than... (laughs) but OK. The point is you have to have finally somebody who is completing the purchase, and that's not happening so far but I still hope, we have good hopes because there are still several interested parties looking at it, and so they hope they will complete soon.
36:21 JW
We're going to finish shortly. Are you very sad, how sad are you at this situation? It's such a sad story, your ownership of this football club.
36:33 RD
I will make a difference between myself and the fans. I'm in fact very sad for the fans. Because it could have been another story. So and I think I feel guilty, because we didn't inform them properly about what was going on at the time. So that's very, very sad. For myself it is clear that, OK I have... because of the... for the fans it's very sad because Charlton is their life.
For me Charlton is something which I was interested in, which I funded, and so if I lost some money OK, but that's... for me it's not my life. And in that sense of course it's a kind of well... sad thing. Indeed the fans suffer more than I do, and OK that's a problem but OK. And certainly we did some mistakes, as everybody does...
The big, big issue is that we failed to communicate well with our fans.
37:38 JW
What's your final message? This is my final point, I cannot thank you enough for opening up and being as honest as you have been, and you have been, Roland. What's your fin... Use this moment Roland, what's your final message to all the Charlton fans who are listening today? Who probably cannot believe I'm talking to you here. What do you want to say to them?
38:00 RD
Well, let's hope that we go up again this year.
38:05 JW
And then it's goodbye from you?
38:07 RD
Yes, sure... (unclear) (laughs) sure that would be better of course... (unclear) But I'm not important really. They are important, this relationship with the club. I've been just there by accident so to speak, and I try to help; OK it's not good enough apparently, and I will leave them. But still for them the club is far more important than for me.
38:29 JW
And you're talking to the EFL as well aren't you; there are talks ongoing, I mean it might happen sooner or later.
38:35 RD
Well they don't have... well they will not buy the club obviously, the EFL...
38:38 JW
No, you need a buyer.
38:40 RD
Yeah yeah, but (unclear) that's not really... we will see how it goes. We have still a similar situation now, as the one which we have basically had for the last year or so. But at least er...
38:55 JW
What, a buyer?
38:57 RD
Well yeah, we have our buyers but OK, then it has to be finalised somehow. That's what we're waiting for now.
39:04 JW
It's a difficult subject, an emotional subject. And I can see you're emotional about it, because it affects you. I wanna thank you very, very much for spending time with us, and speaking so honestly and openly. I really mean that.
End.