Alan Sugar's "joke" wasn't funny. But, as he's not a professional comedian, he can't really be blamed for that/ He tweeted something he thought was funny. It wasn't. Big deal. I do that every day.
But his tweet was also prompted by and suffused with racial undertones. It's undeniably racist. But on a scale, it's at the very low end. He's not suggesting people should be banned from coming to the UK because of their accident of birth. He's not singling out *all* black people (although he's singling some people out *because* they are black). He shouldn't have tweeted it, because it's racist. (And it obviously *is* racist, otherwise he wouldn't have deleted it and wouldn't have had two goes at apologising for it).
Alan Sugar isn't a racist. I don't think many people would claim that he is. But his tweet was the product of someone lazily and casually drawing on low-level, vestigial racism. He should have thought more before sending it.
He hasn't broken the law. He isn't inciting racial hatred or violence. He's just misjudged something. It's a mistake. Private individuals are allowed to make mistakes. Business owners are allowed to make mistakes. But the burden of responsibility should be much higher for someone who sits in parliament and makes our laws. He was stupid to tweet it, but right to delete it. He was also right to apologise for it - even though he had to make two attempts. I don't think he should continue to be castigated. I think and hope he won't do something like it again.
I find myself agreeing with aspects of the theme of your message Chizz, yet I also still disagree with some aspects too.
The "It wasn't funny" I take issue with. What you mean is "It wasn't funny to me". Comedy is subjective (Mrs browns boys and Miranda ffs) and I find it quite arrogant that people (not just you) are saying it as though you speak for everyone/society. I saw it and I found it funny as i'm sure loads of people did. Not laugh out loud funny, but funny none-the-less. With the aforementioned I tell people that i don't find them funny.
Next - "And it obviously *is* racist, otherwise he wouldn't have deleted it" - I don't think you can draw that conclusion at all, he deleted it because of the reaction to it and how that can quickly get out of hand in this social media driven world and destroy your rep if you don't 'take it back' or apologise quickly.
Has anyone heard the one doing the rounds about polish fans on the rampage in Russia? X number of cars polished and hoovered etc etc. Exactly the same context of joke and maybe if someone of AS's status tweeted that one it would also get the same response, but i'm not so sure, even though it is a blatant joke at the expense of a certain region of people. I have only heard laughing galore and it was shared in our office by an eastern European in my team who found it hilarious.
You're right to agree with the bits you agree with. But you're mistaken in thinking that some bits aren't also correct.
Alan Sugar's "joke" wasn't funny. But, as he's not a professional comedian, he can't really be blamed for that/ He tweeted something he thought was funny. It wasn't. Big deal. I do that every day.
But his tweet was also prompted by and suffused with racial undertones. It's undeniably racist. But on a scale, it's at the very low end. He's not suggesting people should be banned from coming to the UK because of their accident of birth. He's not singling out *all* black people (although he's singling some people out *because* they are black). He shouldn't have tweeted it, because it's racist. (And it obviously *is* racist, otherwise he wouldn't have deleted it and wouldn't have had two goes at apologising for it).
Alan Sugar isn't a racist. I don't think many people would claim that he is. But his tweet was the product of someone lazily and casually drawing on low-level, vestigial racism. He should have thought more before sending it.
He hasn't broken the law. He isn't inciting racial hatred or violence. He's just misjudged something. It's a mistake. Private individuals are allowed to make mistakes. Business owners are allowed to make mistakes. But the burden of responsibility should be much higher for someone who sits in parliament and makes our laws. He was stupid to tweet it, but right to delete it. He was also right to apologise for it - even though he had to make two attempts. I don't think he should continue to be castigated. I think and hope he won't do something like it again.
I find myself agreeing with aspects of the theme of your message Chizz, yet I also still disagree with some aspects too.
The "It wasn't funny" I take issue with. What you mean is "It wasn't funny to me". Comedy is subjective (Mrs browns boys and Miranda ffs) and I find it quite arrogant that people (not just you) are saying it as though you speak for everyone/society. I saw it and I found it funny as i'm sure loads of people did. Not laugh out loud funny, but funny none-the-less. With the aforementioned I tell people that i don't find them funny.
Next - "And it obviously *is* racist, otherwise he wouldn't have deleted it" - I don't think you can draw that conclusion at all, he deleted it because of the reaction to it and how that can quickly get out of hand in this social media driven world and destroy your rep if you don't 'take it back' or apologise quickly.
Has anyone heard the one doing the rounds about polish fans on the rampage in Russia? X number of cars polished and hoovered etc etc. Exactly the same context of joke and maybe if someone of AS's status tweeted that one it would also get the same response, but i'm not so sure, even though it is a blatant joke at the expense of a certain region of people. I have only heard laughing galore and it was shared in our office by an eastern European in my team who found it hilarious.
Or maybe trying to cement his acceptance -remembering Norman Tebbit's 'Cricket loyalty test'. Very common strategy...
This may need it own thread if not already covered and I missed it. Black rap and hip-hop artists shouting out the N word, yet when Kendrick Lamar invited a white fan on stage to sing/rap she got booed by the audience when she repeated the N word. jay Z rapped the N word countless time at the Olympic stadium the other night.
As a white middle aged man who has olive skin and looks mixed race in the summer I find it crass if the black community find this word so offensive when said by a white person yet entertaining when said by black folk ?
This may need it own thread if not already covered and I missed it. Black rap and hip-hop artists shouting out the N word, yet when Kendrick Lamar invited a white fan on stage to sing/rap she got booed by the audience when she repeated the N word. jay Z rapped the N word countless time at the Olympic stadium the other night.
As a white middle aged man who has olive skin and looks mixed race in the summer I find it crass if the black community find this word so offensive when said by a white person yet entertaining when said by black folk ?
Explain the paradox to me Chizz.
I can't. And I don't know why I should. But...
I can only imagine that the use of that word conjures up two, conflicting scenarios, depending on who uses it. It only applies to one section of society. And was originally used by another section who suppressed them in an unimaginably cruel and degrading way, by trading them and using them as slaves. Horrific and degrading. So the use of that word by someone from that section of society is, I would guess, offensive.
But when it's used by someone who is also a member of that section of society, it engenders brotherhood, empathy and togetherness.
Sometimes words have different meanings depending on who hears them. And sometimes they have different meanings depending on who says them.
If you're sensible, kind, caring, empathetic, intelligent and careful, you'll know which words to use and which to avoid.
This may need it own thread if not already covered and I missed it. Black rap and hip-hop artists shouting out the N word, yet when Kendrick Lamar invited a white fan on stage to sing/rap she got booed by the audience when she repeated the N word. jay Z rapped the N word countless time at the Olympic stadium the other night.
As a white middle aged man who has olive skin and looks mixed race in the summer I find it crass if the black community find this word so offensive when said by a white person yet entertaining when said by black folk ?
Explain the paradox to me Chizz.
I can't. And I don't know why I should. But...
I can only imagine that the use of that word conjures up two, conflicting scenarios, depending on who uses it. It only applies to one section of society. And was originally used by another section who suppressed them in an unimaginably cruel and degrading way, by trading them and using them as slaves. Horrific and degrading. So the use of that word by someone from that section of society is, I would guess, offensive.
But when it's used by someone who is also a member of that section of society, it engenders brotherhood, empathy and togetherness.
Sometimes words have different meanings depending on who hears them. And sometimes they have different meanings depending on who says them.
If you're sensible, kind, caring, empathetic, intelligent and careful, you'll know which words to use and which to avoid.
Are you offended by the use of that word?
Chizz, the reason I said your name is because you have a lucid way of putting across a point of view, and thanks for doing that.
The reason I'm offended by the N word is because at the age of 8 and after spending 3 years in Africa because of my dad's Engineering job I'm was so brown that a English woman on the ship back to the UK said to my mum is that Indian boy of yours adopted ! Plus i was called the N word by another 8 year old the first week back home.
I still feel the word should be sent to room 101 where it belongs and not used as empowerment for black people.
This may need it own thread if not already covered and I missed it. Black rap and hip-hop artists shouting out the N word, yet when Kendrick Lamar invited a white fan on stage to sing/rap she got booed by the audience when she repeated the N word. jay Z rapped the N word countless time at the Olympic stadium the other night.
As a white middle aged man who has olive skin and looks mixed race in the summer I find it crass if the black community find this word so offensive when said by a white person yet entertaining when said by black folk ?
Explain the paradox to me Chizz.
I can't. And I don't know why I should. But...
I can only imagine that the use of that word conjures up two, conflicting scenarios, depending on who uses it. It only applies to one section of society. And was originally used by another section who suppressed them in an unimaginably cruel and degrading way, by trading them and using them as slaves. Horrific and degrading. So the use of that word by someone from that section of society is, I would guess, offensive.
But when it's used by someone who is also a member of that section of society, it engenders brotherhood, empathy and togetherness.
Sometimes words have different meanings depending on who hears them. And sometimes they have different meanings depending on who says them.
If you're sensible, kind, caring, empathetic, intelligent and careful, you'll know which words to use and which to avoid.
Are you offended by the use of that word?
Chizz, the reason I said your name is because you have a lucid way of putting across a point of view, and thanks for doing that.
The reason I'm offended by the N word is because at the age of 8 and after spending 3 years in Africa because of my dad's Engineering job I'm was so brown that a English woman on the ship back to the UK said to my mum is that Indian boy of yours adopted ! Plus i was called the N word by another 8 year old the first week back home.
I still feel the word should be sent to room 101 where it belongs and not used as empowerment for black people.
You think it shouldn't be used as a derogatory racial epithet. And you think that no black person should be allowed to use it in another way.
I agree with one, but not both of these positions.
Black rap and hip-hop artists shouting out the N word, yet when Kendrick Lamar invited a white fan on stage to sing/rap she got booed by the audience when she repeated the N word.
If that was the genuine crowd reaction then it’s ridiculous.
Surely any offence should be in context of the word useage?
The context in this case is the lyric of a song being repeated by a fan and the stated response is therefore out of order in my opinion.
If the crowd were blind they wouldn’t have known whether to boo or not.
This may need it own thread if not already covered and I missed it. Black rap and hip-hop artists shouting out the N word, yet when Kendrick Lamar invited a white fan on stage to sing/rap she got booed by the audience when she repeated the N word. jay Z rapped the N word countless time at the Olympic stadium the other night.
As a white middle aged man who has olive skin and looks mixed race in the summer I find it crass if the black community find this word so offensive when said by a white person yet entertaining when said by black folk ?
Explain the paradox to me Chizz, Or anyone ?
Was watching Channel 4 and some twat called Big Nastie was advertising his new show(saw him on BGMT and thought he was a knob) he ended the advert by saying this show is so black it will be stopped and searched for no reason, I dont get why he needed to add that, imagine the uproar if a white person was advertising a show and added this show is gonna be so white
I'm imagining that tweet being about the Chinese national team, along the lines of, "I recognise some of these guys from the local Happy Dragon, multi tasking resourceful chaps".
That would make me, and no doubt a lot of other people of Chinese heritage, extremely uncomfortable.
For that reason, I do "feel offended on the behalf of others", as has been articulated sarcastically above.
Jokes are not supposed to make everyone feel comfortable, some people are just too easily offended.
What's the world coming to when you can't laugh at blatant racism eh?
It's a shit joke, i agree entirely, I just don't see the blatant racism.
I'm imagining that tweet being about the Chinese national team, along the lines of, "I recognise some of these guys from the local Happy Dragon, multi tasking resourceful chaps".
That would make me, and no doubt a lot of other people of Chinese heritage, extremely uncomfortable.
For that reason, I do "feel offended on the behalf of others", as has been articulated sarcastically above.
Jokes are not supposed to make everyone feel comfortable, some people are just too easily offended.
What's the world coming to when you can't laugh at blatant racism eh?
It's a shit joke, i agree entirely, I just don't see the blatant racism.
Should have gone to Specsavers.
As someone who is a victim of actual blatant racism on an almost weekly basis, trust me, i know what it looks like.
This may need it own thread if not already covered and I missed it. Black rap and hip-hop artists shouting out the N word, yet when Kendrick Lamar invited a white fan on stage to sing/rap she got booed by the audience when she repeated the N word. jay Z rapped the N word countless time at the Olympic stadium the other night.
As a white middle aged man who has olive skin and looks mixed race in the summer I find it crass if the black community find this word so offensive when said by a white person yet entertaining when said by black folk ?
Explain the paradox to me Chizz, Or anyone ?
Was watching Channel 4 and some twat called Big Nastie was advertising his new show(saw him on BGMT and thought he was a knob) he ended the advert by saying this show is so black it will be stopped and searched for no reason, I dont get why he needed to add that, imagine the uproar if a white person was advertising a show and added this show is gonna be so white
What I find amusing about that trailer for the narstie big fellas show is that after he says ‘this show is gonna be so black’ line the announcer then says ‘with this weeks guest.......Ed Sheeran! The bloke who’s so white he’s nearly albino!
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Very common strategy...
Black rap and hip-hop artists shouting out the N word, yet when Kendrick Lamar invited a white fan on stage to sing/rap she got booed by the audience when she repeated the N word.
jay Z rapped the N word countless time at the Olympic stadium the other night.
As a white middle aged man who has olive skin and looks mixed race in the summer I find it crass if the black community find this word so offensive when said by a white person yet entertaining when said by black folk ?
Explain the paradox to me Chizz,
Or anyone ?
I can only imagine that the use of that word conjures up two, conflicting scenarios, depending on who uses it. It only applies to one section of society. And was originally used by another section who suppressed them in an unimaginably cruel and degrading way, by trading them and using them as slaves. Horrific and degrading. So the use of that word by someone from that section of society is, I would guess, offensive.
But when it's used by someone who is also a member of that section of society, it engenders brotherhood, empathy and togetherness.
Sometimes words have different meanings depending on who hears them. And sometimes they have different meanings depending on who says them.
If you're sensible, kind, caring, empathetic, intelligent and careful, you'll know which words to use and which to avoid.
Are you offended by the use of that word?
The reason I'm offended by the N word is because at the age of 8 and after spending 3 years in Africa because of my dad's Engineering job I'm was so brown that a English woman on the ship back to the UK said to my mum is that Indian boy of yours adopted !
Plus i was called the N word by another 8 year old the first week back home.
I still feel the word should be sent to room 101 where it belongs and not used as empowerment for black people.
I agree with one, but not both of these positions.
Surely any offence should be in context of the word useage?
The context in this case is the lyric of a song being repeated by a fan and the stated response is therefore out of order in my opinion.
If the crowd were blind they wouldn’t have known whether to boo or not.
What I find amusing about that trailer for the narstie big fellas show is that after he says ‘this show is gonna be so black’ line the announcer then says ‘with this weeks guest.......Ed Sheeran! The bloke who’s so white he’s nearly albino!