Another Shooting in LONDON

ShootersHillGuru

A fourth shooting in London took place over the bank holiday weekend when a seventeen year old was shot and killed in Southwark. This follows shootings injuring a thirteen and fifteen year old in Wealdstone and a 22 year old man shot in Lewisham.

This takes the number of street deaths in the capital to 60 this year. More than half were stabbings.

These statistics are truly frightening and we must as a society now be at the point where something drastic needs to be considered before things get even worse.

Discuss.

Uboat

Like what?

AddickFC81

The met commissioner should resign.

Baldybonce

AddickFC81 said:

The met commissioner should resign.

Why?
The stabbings and shootings are contained pretty much amongst one section of the community. Unfortunately until that community steps up to the plate to help deal with it the crimes will continue.

blackpool72

Before this turns into a political itt for tat thread.
Anybody caught in possession of a gun illegally should go to prison for 5 years.

Anybody caught bringing guns into Britain and supplying them should get far longer.

cafcdave123

Uboat said:

Like what?

We should all arm ourselves.

ShootersHillGuru

Uboat said:

Like what?

Put you in charge perhaps.

nth_london_addick

The mother needs to have a word with herself blaming everyone except herself and the son

If parents don’t know and don’t care what their kids are doing then this is what happens

Too many people too scared to face the ugly and difficult fact that the biggest threat to young black men is young black men and unfortunately the police need to target that demographic and come down hard , the government and courts need to do the same

Then local youth leaders and community leaders like boxing coaches and football coaches need to use the positive influences they hold further into the community and school system

But all of this is only possible if the parents of these children change first

Who all by the way are a level brilliant footballers who work in the community and never in trouble unbelievable that they are even involved in gangs or trouble


That’s how blind lazy and shameful shit they are as parents

You get the exceptions in the Knox and mizen cases but they are the rare cases

McBobbin

nth london addick said:

The mother needs to have a word with herself blaming everyone except herself and the son

If parents don’t know and don’t care what their kids are doing then this is what happens

Too many people too scared to face the ugly and difficult fact that the biggest threat to young black men is young black men and unfortunately the police need to target that demographic and come down hard , the government and courts need to do the same

Then local youth leaders and community leaders like boxing coaches and football coaches need to use the positive influences they hold further into the community and school system

But all of this is only possible if the parents of these children change first

Who all by the way are a level brilliant footballers who work in the community and never in trouble unbelievable that they are even involved in gangs or trouble


That’s how blind lazy and shameful shit they are as parents

You get the exceptions in the Knox and mizen cases but they are the rare cases

Difficulty is that people with really shit parents often end up similar, especially if that's all they see around them. Going to need some massive cultural changes as well as positive models such as boxing coaches. Tough.

Funnily enough, I work with a young black guy, Caribbean mother, African dad who is nowhere to be seen.. he grew up in Walthamstow and Benin/ivory coast. Top bloke, got a first in chemistry from ICL, and doing well in his career. Makes you wonder what goes right and wrong for some people (he played tons of football, surely that helped) as he hasn't got any social or mental problems.

JoshrewCAFC

nth london addick said:

The mother needs to have a word with herself blaming everyone except herself and the son

If parents don’t know and don’t care what their kids are doing then this is what happens

Too many people too scared to face the ugly and difficult fact that the biggest threat to young black men is young black men and unfortunately the police need to target that demographic and come down hard , the government and courts need to do the same

Then local youth leaders and community leaders like boxing coaches and football coaches need to use the positive influences they hold further into the community and school system

But all of this is only possible if the parents of these children change first

Who all by the way are a level brilliant footballers who work in the community and never in trouble unbelievable that they are even involved in gangs or trouble


That’s how blind lazy and shameful shit they are as parents

You get the exceptions in the Knox and mizen cases but they are the rare cases

This is difficult. When I was studying politics at 6th form 3/4 years ago we were asked during one lesson to raise our hands if we'd ever been stopped and searched. One white person raised their hand and all but two black students in the class raised their hands. The police do already focus on this group, and whilst most murders are black on black (same applies in America, etc.) it's difficult to avoid these targetted policies appearing to be racist in nature.

The main way to prevent these types of crime waves is to bring those groups out of poverty.

McBobbin

One thing he said was that the school cultire in West Africa is completely different to that in West Africa. In West Africa, every kid wanted to be the best - the best student, the hardest worker, the smartest uniform, the highest grades. Completely different in the UK where wanting to attain high standards and be the best is nerdy and looked down upon.

NorthumberlandAddick

Prison is far to easy for these idiots. If they like killing and maiming so much then don't send them to prison, enforce military conscription. They are plenty of war zones at the moment that they could go to. That might even learn the difference between right and wrong.

ShootersHillGuru

NorthumberlandAddick said:

Prison is far to easy for these idiots. If they like killing and maiming so much then don't send them to prison, enforce military conscription. They are plenty of war zones at the moment that they could go to. That might even learn the difference between right and wrong.

I think this is likely to be the daftest suggestion made on this thread.

Baldybonce

JoshrewCAFC said:

nth london addick said:

The mother needs to have a word with herself blaming everyone except herself and the son

If parents don’t know and don’t care what their kids are doing then this is what happens

Too many people too scared to face the ugly and difficult fact that the biggest threat to young black men is young black men and unfortunately the police need to target that demographic and come down hard , the government and courts need to do the same

Then local youth leaders and community leaders like boxing coaches and football coaches need to use the positive influences they hold further into the community and school system

But all of this is only possible if the parents of these children change first

Who all by the way are a level brilliant footballers who work in the community and never in trouble unbelievable that they are even involved in gangs or trouble


That’s how blind lazy and shameful shit they are as parents

You get the exceptions in the Knox and mizen cases but they are the rare cases

This is difficult. When I was studying politics at 6th form 3/4 years ago we were asked during one lesson to raise our hands if we'd ever been stopped and searched. One white person raised their hand and all but two black students in the class raised their hands. The police do already focus on this group, and whilst most murders are black on black (same applies in America, etc.) it's difficult to avoid these targetted policies appearing to be racist in nature.

The main way to prevent these types of crime waves is to bring those groups out of poverty.

How?
Would you employ someone who can't even pull their trousers up?
There are plenty of young Eastern Europeans around who have bothered to learn about H&S, COSHH etc. They are the ones getting the jobs.

kigelia

The shooting death in Southwark is in an area that has had loads of gang violence, there was a shooting and a couple of stabbings there a couple of weeks back and a victim millimetres from adding to the death statistics. I have attended multiple stabbings in that immediate area in the last twelve months.

The_President

Unfortunately, whether you like it or not, indigenous Londoners have increasingly got fed up with what has been foisted upon them by successive governments, and have been leaving London in droves. When I return to London, I get shocked by the latent aggression and violence that you feel is around the corner. And that is coming from someone who has lived for years in a South African city.
A heck of a lot of good, respectful people have decided this is not for them and have cashed in their chips (houses) and moved, either overseas, or out to safer, more respectful areas of the country .

Sadly, as a Londoner, I have no wish for my children to grow up in London.

Bangkokaddick

The_President said:

Unfortunately, whether you like it or not, indigenous Londoners have increasingly got fed up with what has been foisted upon them, and have been leaving London in droves. When I return to London, I get shocked by the latent aggression and violence that you feel is around the corner. And that is coming from someone who has lived for years in a South African city.
A heck of a lot of good, respectful people have decided this is not for them and have cashed in their chips (houses) and moved, either overseas, or out to safer, more respectful areas of the country .

Sadly, as a Londoner, I have no wish for my children to grow up in London.

I looked into bringing my daughter to England for education purposes last year. There's no way I'd let her go to school in London, not that I'd be able to afford to live there these days anyway! As a born and bred South Londoner its quite sad I have to think like this. I used to wander about the streets where this latest shooting took place as a kid/teenager with no real worries, though even back then there were certain kids from that particular vicinity (Westcott Road) that you avoided

I decided in the end she's better off at an International School in Thailand and if by necessity we do need to return, we'll be living in the sticks.

nth_london_addick

The_President said:

Unfortunately, whether you like it or not, indigenous Londoners have increasingly got fed up with what has been foisted upon them by successive governments, and have been leaving London in droves. When I return to London, I get shocked by the latent aggression and violence that you feel is around the corner. And that is coming from someone who has lived for years in a South African city.
A heck of a lot of good, respectful people have decided this is not for them and have cashed in their chips (houses) and moved, either overseas, or out to safer, more respectful areas of the country .

Sadly, as a Londoner, I have no wish for my children to grow up in London.

I won’t be here more than a year already planning hitting the countryside lifestyle

I am sick to death of it , I have mentioned before I am in contact with Mark prince who unfortunately and sadly lost Kiyan his son to a gang related murder

Mark is so troubled by the way that young black men do not respect each other respect their culture or skin colour

and as such it knocks on into the broader society where people like me who can’t understand why people are more bothered about the act of police stop and search targeting the demographic of person committing the acts in places where it’s known and rife is perceived as racist and that more important than a dead child or young black man

It’s all excuses

The parents have excuses as to why they are wank and not in the lives of their children in a positive way

The parents then have excuses as to why their church going a level brilliant footballer who gives back to the community is dead

They need to wake up

When the most positive thing about your child is their headstone or the headline in the paper for the lives they ruined then no one can help you

creepyaddick

Surely the first place to start is building more prisons, putting away anyone in possession of a knife or gun for a minimum 5 years, at least it would buy more time to get to the core issues

SantaClaus

People are horrified by the number of murders and demand tough policing and then a year or two later are horrified by racist stop and search/imprisonment statistics and we end up back where we started. It's hard not to be cynical about the situation and even harder to see things turning around anytime soon.

i_b_b_o_r_g

Anyone found in possession of an illegal firearm gets a minimum of 5 years if found guilty, if they are over 18. The problem, as I see it, is these days, the people involved in gun crime are getting younger and younger. I genuinely think the age of accountability should be reduced to 16 and if a person under the age of 16 is found in possession or committing a crime involving firearms, their parent / guardian should be tried for the same crime as committed by the child in their charge.

Addickted

JoshrewCAFC said:

nth london addick said:

The mother needs to have a word with herself blaming everyone except herself and the son

If parents don’t know and don’t care what their kids are doing then this is what happens

Too many people too scared to face the ugly and difficult fact that the biggest threat to young black men is young black men and unfortunately the police need to target that demographic and come down hard , the government and courts need to do the same

Then local youth leaders and community leaders like boxing coaches and football coaches need to use the positive influences they hold further into the community and school system

But all of this is only possible if the parents of these children change first

Who all by the way are a level brilliant footballers who work in the community and never in trouble unbelievable that they are even involved in gangs or trouble


That’s how blind lazy and shameful shit they are as parents

You get the exceptions in the Knox and mizen cases but they are the rare cases

The main way to prevent these types of crime waves is to bring those groups out of poverty.

Can't be that poor if you can afford to buy a gun.

Anyway, I thought these were mostly drug gang related? Some very rich youngsters in that line of work.

Fortune 82nd Minute

JoshrewCAFC said:

nth london addick said:

The mother needs to have a word with herself blaming everyone except herself and the son

If parents don’t know and don’t care what their kids are doing then this is what happens

Too many people too scared to face the ugly and difficult fact that the biggest threat to young black men is young black men and unfortunately the police need to target that demographic and come down hard , the government and courts need to do the same

Then local youth leaders and community leaders like boxing coaches and football coaches need to use the positive influences they hold further into the community and school system

But all of this is only possible if the parents of these children change first

Who all by the way are a level brilliant footballers who work in the community and never in trouble unbelievable that they are even involved in gangs or trouble


That’s how blind lazy and shameful shit they are as parents

You get the exceptions in the Knox and mizen cases but they are the rare cases

This is difficult. When I was studying politics at 6th form 3/4 years ago we were asked during one lesson to raise our hands if we'd ever been stopped and searched. One white person raised their hand and all but two black students in the class raised their hands. The police do already focus on this group, and whilst most murders are black on black (same applies in America, etc.) it's difficult to avoid these targetted policies appearing to be racist in nature.

The main way to prevent these types of crime waves is to bring those groups out of poverty.

I despair when I see crap like this about the police being racist because they stop black kids.

A copper wouldn't survive 5 minutes these day if he consistently showed racist tendencies.

And as I've said before, you should talk to coppers and listen to the shit they have to take from the black kids they stop.

Whether you like it or not, it is mostly black kids stabbing and shooting fellow black kids. Accordingly if the police are going to put a stop to this, they have to stop a disproportionate number of black kids. When everyone accepts this, then maybe they will be able to put a lid on these senseless killings.

McBobbin

.

McBobbin

Interesting from the grauniad:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/nov/29/the-guardian-view-on-knife-crime-getting-the-facts

Interesting to look at from a UK perspective. Recently showed that in proportion, London wasn't the most dangerous part of the UK. Whilst perpetrators and victims of crime in London are disproportionately black, race it seems is a marker rather than the cause. But, police need proper stats on who to investigate, and need to be free to get on with it without worrying about upsetting people.

Arsenetatters

NorthumberlandAddick said:

Prison is far to easy for these idiots. If they like killing and maiming so much then don't send them to prison, enforce military conscription. They are plenty of war zones at the moment that they could go to. That might even learn the difference between right and wrong.

I'm always amazed when people say how easy prison is. It's not all TV and home comforts. I've worked in a couple and they were overcrowded, very limited time outdoors, crawling with cockroaches and an undercurrent of violence about to break out at any moment - that was just the womens one.

i_b_b_o_r_g

On one of my recent visits back, I treated meself to a cooked breakfast in a Plumstead cafe. While I was in there, a couple of blokes I know from a while back walked in, both pretty infamous in the wider area and probably known by a few people who post on CL.

While we chatted, we got on to the subject of the drug gangs from Woolwich / Charlton etc. and some of the stuff they were BOTH telling me was unbelievable. Describing how 17 year old lads are in control of certain areas, with thousands of pounds and other gang members at their disposal. The police know exactly what's going on and who's who, but are only interested if or when there's been a serious incident, basically letting the gangs go about their day to day "business" unchallenged, except for the occasional purge. One of the blokes I chatted to was telling me that pupils in his son's school would regularly serve up on the school grounds and walk about the school with £100's in their pockets.

I think the bottom line is that there is no respect for authority, whatever form it comes in and these kids think they're "untouchable" by other gangs and the police, which to a certain extent for the latter, seems is true.

Another thing that winds me up are these videos that get shared all over social media, of youths back-chatting the police, when all the copper is trying to do is ask for a name and id. I've got middle aged people on my social media that think this is really funny and / or acceptable. If we all agree we need a police force, surely we must all agree that they should have certain powers to do their jobs ffs

The_Organiser

Stephen Lawrence.

I’ve said it many times before on here but the very fact a whole police force was acceptingly labelled as institutionally racist was a disgrace and has caused untold issues ever since and will forever more.

Stephens mother (supported by the likes of Dianna Abbot) whilst understandably grieving for a lost child has continued this vendetta and appears oblivious to the fact that her narrative and the weight it ridiculously carries, even now, causes more problems for the black community that any racist police force possibly did or could.

The very fact we now have an official ‘Stephen Lawrence day’ shows that the mood in this respect is a long way from ever changing.

i_b_b_o_r_g

McBobbin said:

.

The closest we, as kids, got to a youth worker was the bloke who opened Rathmore Youth Centre on Troughton Road on a Friday night and he barely said hello, but guess what, we knew we shouldn't shoot and stab each other and there were white, black and asian kids all in attendance, course you got the odd disagreement and punch up.

Wheresmeticket

blackpool72 said:

Before this turns into a political itt for tat thread.
Anybody caught in possession of a gun illegally should go to prison for 5 years.

Anybody caught bringing guns into Britain and supplying them should get far longer.

Agreed.

McBobbin

i_b_b_o_r_g said:

On one of my recent visits back, I treated meself to a cooked breakfast in a Plumstead cafe. While I was in there, a couple of blokes I know from a while back walked in, both pretty infamous in the wider area and probably known by a few people who post on CL.

While we chatted, we got on to the subject of the drug gangs from Woolwich / Charlton etc. and some of the stuff they were BOTH telling me was unbelievable. Describing how 17 year old lads are in control of certain areas, with thousands of pounds and other gang members at their disposal. The police know exactly what's going on and who's who, but are only interested if or when there's been a serious incident, basically letting the gangs go about their day to day "business" unchallenged, except for the occasional purge. One of the blokes I chatted to was telling me that pupils in his son's school would regularly serve up on the school grounds and walk about the school with £100's in their pockets.

I think the bottom line is that there is no respect for authority, whatever form it comes in and these kids think they're "untouchable" by other gangs and the police, which to a certain extent for the latter, seems is true.

Another thing that winds me up are these videos that get shared all over social media, of youths back-chatting the police, when all the copper is trying to do is ask for a name and id. I've got middle aged people on my social media that think this is really funny and / or acceptable. If we all agree we need a police force, surely we must all agree that they should have certain powers to do their jobs ffs

Getting the same in Chelmsford. Chelmsford ffs! Police know who they all are, and are prepping the teachers in schools (teacher told me this). Going to be some major turf wars cos the local gangs have knives, and the London gangs come in on the train and have guns.

Be like Zammo, and say no to drugs kids!