Charlton Life is full of bright, intelligent, engaged Lifers, and this forum affords a huge array of topics. From football to films, music to mental health, holidays to horse racing and politics to Pot Noodle. So, while there are threads that concentrate on some areas of political life, there is not yet one on the biggest scandal to hit the UK, namely the WIndrush scandal.
So with apologies to those for whom "another" political thread is too much (and, to those people, as well as apologies, I will offer the suggestion, that you don't open this thread and, instead look at any of the others), this is a thread, posted for selfish reasons, on the debacle of the Windrush scandal. Why "selfish"? Because I want to understand the issue better - I have posted this thread in order to understand a few questions that are completely baffling me right now. Those questions are:
1. Why has Theresa May not resigned?
2. Why has Amber Rudd not either been sacked or had the decency to resign?
3. How much worse is this going to get?
...and, sadly, the one that's worrying me the most...
4. If the government is going after British subjects who have lived in, worked in, paid taxes to and contributed to the United Kingdom for decades, who will they go after next?
Most of us are lucky enough to live in the greatest country on Earth, of course. But this scandal impacts each and every one of us. It's so all-encompassing and dangerous that it can be summed up in a simple sentence. "The government is selecting some British citizens to persecute, terrorise, incarcerate and threaten with deportation". There are lots of questions that need answering and I can't answer them. Can any Lifers help out?
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Comments
but I'm not sure why May is getting all the flack on it as I'm sure I read that a bloke had not been allowed to return to the UK since the early the 2000's, when Blair and Brown were at the helm? Or maybe I'm wrong....
They can only reverse & repair the damage (and they should) but they are not responsible for the original decision.
At the time it was more important to both main parties to be seen to be tough on migration, as they were worried about being outflanked by UKIP and the far right.
May won't resign over this as she thinks it was the right policy and is fronting things out with a token apology.
Rudd seems to be hanging on on the grounds that it started under May, and presumably has May's support in hanging on so as not to leave herself exposed.
I'm not sure it will get a lot worse, but you never know.
The govt will only ever go after people it can paint as "other" - children of migrants, people who aren't "like us". I think if you are white, British and not Muslim, you're probably alright for the foreseeable. If you're an EU citizen, or a child of EU citizens born and brought up here whose parents have never worried about getting you British nationality, then I think you have every right to be worried.
Theresa May has been in charge of the Home Office or in charge of the appointment of the Home Secretary for eight years. There is no-one else who has had more control or more responsibility for every action taken by the Home Office for the whole of this decade.
The scandal is her fault. It may be argued that it's not solely her fault. It may be argued that other people should also carry the can. But the whole debacle is her fault.
In the old days, government ministers used to resign. If you're old enough to remember the Falklands conflict breaking out, you can probably remember Carrington. He did the decent thing. She hasn't.
Doesn't mean you should lose your job.
Seems to me they are doing all they can to rectify the situation.
If these people arrived via the system the way they claim and have been working and paying taxes here for the last 40 years then they have every right to stay and be given papers.
I hope those affected get decent treatment going forward.
I doubt anybody will resign or accept responsibility.
The Conservatives aren't blameless, but the Home Office in general has been a shambles for year, it's one of the reason Home Secretaries don't usually tend to last very long.
You make it sound as if people are being picked up by squads and frog marched to Heathrow, the people in question came to the UK and settled here, there has been a mix up with their papers caused by a Labour Government and it has hit the headlines.
Sad Labour politicians are no more concerned about these poor people than most of the country, they are simply using the situation to point score and get May or Rudd to resign.
As I say I am not expecting a knock on my door any time soon asking me to leave the country so I shall sleep well tonight.
The question is was it cock-up or conspiracy?
How many of us have documents proving where we were for the last 50 years?
This is a truly monumental fuck-up from both government and the civil service stretching across different leaderships/parties, and it seems zero common sense has been applied.
Chizz, to answer your questions:
1) She probably justifiably doesn't accept full responsibility.
2) As above, though she's not exactly handled things well. It is under her steer that this generation has been prosecuted.
3) Thankfully, not too much worse, now everything is really coming to light in a big way.
4) A little bit of a slippery slope there, but I get what you mean. The impression has been created of a callous, ruthless government - for some people - and that ain't good.
You're a British citizen. You don't expect a knock on the door any time soon. You don't expect anyone to ask you to leave the country. That is a description of many Windrush generation British citizens (as it is of many others - Polish RAF pilots, for example).
You don't expect a knock on the door, until you get a letter, giving you seven days' notice. Can you imagine how frightening that must be?
If you're told to keep papers, you do. If you're not told to keep them, then you're asked to prove where you were 60 years ago, when you were 6 years old, that can be a struggle. No?
Because the boarding cards were disposed of in 2009 - nothing to do with May or Rudd.
Were you so poor that you never got a passport? Do you have all your payslips? You do know that simply paying tax doesn't give you the right to live here, don't you?
Do you understand what "hostile environment" might mean, especially in the hands of eager, nit-picking civil servants?
Of course, in the the years since the Tories have instigated a number of policies more and more hostile to anybody who's right to be here is even in the most minuscule of doubt, and suddenly these documents become important. Then, rather than holds their hands up from creating a hostile living environment, the Tories try and shift the blame on Labour.
As i_b_b_o_r_g said, these documents shouldn't be necessary even now, but current government policy actually makes it incredibly difficult to prove you have a right to be here if you don't have a birth certificate and passport. Could anybody here produce for required documents for each and every year they've lived here? I know there's no way I could. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-43795077
if jezza was in charge it would be a case of this was before his time etc. they are trying to rectify the situation, a bit like the banning of plastic straws i think is a great move yet was barely mentioned.