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Russians at it again

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  • Might just be me being naive, but dont see it kicking off in the summer as bad as people make out.

    Im sure if you go looking for trouble then you'll find it, but there wont be state sponsored mobs being sent out like in France.

    Can see the Russian authorities being very strict and wanting to make sure their World Cup doesn't turn into an embarrassment.

    What is that about Gaz? The French government paid herberts to beat football fans up?
  • Might just be me being naive, but dont see it kicking off in the summer as bad as people make out.

    Im sure if you go looking for trouble then you'll find it, but there wont be state sponsored mobs being sent out like in France.

    Can see the Russian authorities being very strict and wanting to make sure their World Cup doesn't turn into an embarrassment.

    Yep, fan ringleaders are friends with the authorities / part of the authorities and they will be told to ensure Russia is not shown in a bad light. There appears a huge amount of fear of authorities there, not like we know here.
  • They want banning / banging up for crimes against fashion.

    Bum bags?

    FFS, you lot turn it in........................ ;)
    image
  • Might just be me being naive, but dont see it kicking off in the summer as bad as people make out.

    Im sure if you go looking for trouble then you'll find it, but there wont be state sponsored mobs being sent out like in France.

    Can see the Russian authorities being very strict and wanting to make sure their World Cup doesn't turn into an embarrassment.

    What is that about Gaz? The French government paid herberts to beat football fans up?
    No i meant the Russian government were sponsoring mobs of MMA trained fighters and ex-forces to go to France and cause agg.
  • Might just be me being naive, but dont see it kicking off in the summer as bad as people make out.

    Im sure if you go looking for trouble then you'll find it, but there wont be state sponsored mobs being sent out like in France.

    Can see the Russian authorities being very strict and wanting to make sure their World Cup doesn't turn into an embarrassment.

    What is that about Gaz? The French government paid herberts to beat football fans up?
    No i meant the Russian government were sponsoring mobs of MMA trained fighters and ex-forces to go to France and cause agg.
    It would probably be hard to prove but that's what I think happened to.
  • Chunes said:

    LuckyReds said:

    I was chatting to a Russian girl recently, and we ended up discussing the lengths that the Russian Government are going to, all to try and lure get football fans to attend the World Cup.

    I was a bit incredulous during the conversation, as it occured to me that it's quite a f*cked up situation when you need to "sweeten the deal" to get football fans to attend the world's greatest football competition..!

    One example she noted was the "Fan ID" malarkey for instance; to avoid bureaucracy and visa requirements during the world cup period.

    I mentioned I'd nearly gone to Moscow a few times over the past few years, it's on my to-do list, but it's all a bit "now or never" - and there were a few worrying stories I've heard about the visa process.

    She went as far as to encourage me to go the Fan ID route, get tickets for games that happen to be located near where I'd like to visit, and make the most of the perks.

    Although she has quite a proud view of her home, and she's quick to point out the usual media bollocks, she's certainly far from nationalistic. After chatting with her I came to the conclusion that Russia has a lot riding on the World Cup - both in reputational and monetary terms.

    It's still a completely idiotic location though, and I can't help but think the 2016 issues were a state-sanctioned warning to the football community in general. I don't think fans will be safe from anything - be it official corruption, violence, or petty crime. Football fans are largely going to be a tasty little treat for all forms of crime to thrive upon IMO.

    I wish I was stunned that it's going to happen, but then again - this was awarded by the same corrupt group of money-grabbing bastards who thought Qatar was a valid location.

    Football? It's not really about fans at any level now is it?

    I spent two weeks in Moscow for work recently (yes it was bloody freezing).

    The visa process is indeed silly. Had to input everywhere I've been in the last 10 years, with dates. My parents' names, DOBs, jobs and their full addresses. Had to list all professional, civil and charity organizations I was a member of or ever 'cooperated with'. Even had to list with which social media companies I held accounts. (Facebook, Instagram, Snapchat, etc.) And a lot more I can't remember. I do remember how intrusive it felt.

    There were some things about Moscow that made me think. For example, there were books criticising Putin in Moscow book shops. If we believed what our media told us, the shop owners would've been dragged down the gulag yonks ago. But they were displayed openly on shelves.

    In general, the Russians were very warm and welcoming people. Which surprised me, I must say. On a walking tour, one even spoke of Russians' frustration with the general Hollywood portrayal of a Russian as a cold, deadly killer. She said it was a stereotype that many people found hurtful.

    I'm sure they will be seeing the world cup as a great opportunity to show the world their best side. Our media will be waiting for any opportunity to continue painting a picture.
    Didn’t realise the visa process had got so involved. We went to Moscow about 12 years ago and had problems with ours. They used to regularly change the requirements and if you applied with the latest form, it had changed by the time they received and you had to do it again.

    Took us 3 attempts and I ended up going through my company travel dept in the end.

    Fantastic place though.

  • Might just be me being naive, but dont see it kicking off in the summer as bad as people make out.

    Im sure if you go looking for trouble then you'll find it, but there wont be state sponsored mobs being sent out like in France.

    Can see the Russian authorities being very strict and wanting to make sure their World Cup doesn't turn into an embarrassment.

    What is that about Gaz? The French government paid herberts to beat football fans up?
    No i meant the Russian government were sponsoring mobs of MMA trained fighters and ex-forces to go to France and cause agg.
    It would probably be hard to prove but that's what I think happened to.
    https://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/jun/18/whitehall-suspects-kremlin-links-to-russian-euro-2016-hooligans-vladimir-putin

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/euro-2016-russian-insider-reveals-football-hooligans-are-more-than-ultras-who-train-for-fights-with-a7082531.html

    Cant see these nutters being allowed to roam free this summer.
  • Planning to be on holiday in Russia this summer but definitely going after the World Cup as reckon it would be too risky during (plus more expensive). Have been before and found the people lovely but wouldn't want to mess with their police or be around any of their football ultras.
  • Only go to Kaliningrad for the Belgium game, decided against staying in Kaliningrad and will dray trip over on the coach.

    I personally think it will be fine over there. As long as I don’t act like a (insert swear word) I think I will be safe.
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  • I have a ticket for the semi and final (if England make it - stop laughing)

    Like others have said, the WC will be a lot better policed than when we played there in that huge qualifier in 2007. We took 7k to that and I've hardly met one person since who went who had any positive to say about the experience. But places and attitudes can improve a lot in a decade!

    That said there we were all going to by mugged etc in South Africa and whilst there are always unfortunate exceptions, it didn't happen in significant numbers! We were warned about the Brazilian jungle tribes in Brazil - yes people came unstuck on their own due to the general crime but no large scale problems.

    Then there was Ukraine and Poland 2012 - if ever a place had potential for disaster in football terms! Sol Campbell (who should never be listened to) said people would come back in coffins. The first week was a bit ropey but it calmed down and was well policed whilst I was there.

    I have only every had problems in qualifiers away, at which point the authorities and media couldn't give a monkeys about 2k England fans having to run the gauntlet! A WC comes round and both of the aforementioned go into overdrive.

    Will individual people run into problems? Of course! Will there be large scale problems? Possibly early on, but I'd be surprised if its sustained! IF we had drawn Russia that would have been a different kettle of fish and made me think twice.
  • Might just be me being naive, but dont see it kicking off in the summer as bad as people make out.

    Im sure if you go looking for trouble then you'll find it, but there wont be state sponsored mobs being sent out like in France.

    Can see the Russian authorities being very strict and wanting to make sure their World Cup doesn't turn into an embarrassment.

    What is that about Gaz? The French government paid herberts to beat football fans up?
    No i meant the Russian government were sponsoring mobs of MMA trained fighters and ex-forces to go to France and cause agg.
    Ah - yes, I see what you are getting at.
  • Russia has thousands of young men who train to fight and lead an almost monastic existence to achieve professional athlete conditioning. These are not football hooligans in the sense we understand the term. They are just young men of violence. Not all will be be ultra right wing or ultra anything. They just like physical violence.

    To think that these groups are going to sit on the sidelines and watch beered up football wannabes lording it through their towns is I think at best unlikely.

    I also doubt that local police will be too bothered despite instructions from Moscow.

    I could be wrong.
  • I have a ticket for the semi and final (if England make it - stop laughing)

    Like others have said, the WC will be a lot better policed than when we played there in that huge qualifier in 2007. We took 7k to that and I've hardly met one person since who went who had any positive to say about the experience. But places and attitudes can improve a lot in a decade!

    That said there we were all going to by mugged etc in South Africa and whilst there are always unfortunate exceptions, it didn't happen in significant numbers! We were warned about the Brazilian jungle tribes in Brazil - yes people came unstuck on their own due to the general crime but no large scale problems.

    Then there was Ukraine and Poland 2012 - if ever a place had potential for disaster in football terms! Sol Campbell (who should never be listened to) said people would come back in coffins. The first week was a bit ropey but it calmed down and was well policed whilst I was there.

    I have only every had problems in qualifiers away, at which point the authorities and media couldn't give a monkeys about 2k England fans having to run the gauntlet! A WC comes round and both of the aforementioned go into overdrive.

    Will individual people run into problems? Of course! Will there be large scale problems? Possibly early on, but I'd be surprised if its sustained! IF we had drawn Russia that would have been a different kettle of fish and made me think twice.

    i also have the mentioned tickets that wont be used, and will be fully expecting a refund ha!
  • Russia has thousands of young men who train to fight and lead an almost monastic existence to achieve professional athlete conditioning. These are not football hooligans in the sense we understand the term. They are just young men of violence. Not all will be be ultra right wing or ultra anything. They just like physical violence.

    To think that these groups are going to sit on the sidelines and watch beered up football wannabes lording it through their towns is I think at best unlikely.

    I also doubt that local police will be too bothered despite instructions from Moscow.

    I could be wrong.

    the majority make monkey noises along with a lot of other eastern european fans, of course it will be the england fans fault for singing national anthems some songs about terrorists and getting beered up just like every other nation do except from its acceptable to batter the english because they were looking for it.
  • I have a ticket for the semi and final (if England make it - stop laughing)

    Like others have said, the WC will be a lot better policed than when we played there in that huge qualifier in 2007. We took 7k to that and I've hardly met one person since who went who had any positive to say about the experience. But places and attitudes can improve a lot in a decade!

    That said there we were all going to by mugged etc in South Africa and whilst there are always unfortunate exceptions, it didn't happen in significant numbers! We were warned about the Brazilian jungle tribes in Brazil - yes people came unstuck on their own due to the general crime but no large scale problems.

    Then there was Ukraine and Poland 2012 - if ever a place had potential for disaster in football terms! Sol Campbell (who should never be listened to) said people would come back in coffins. The first week was a bit ropey but it calmed down and was well policed whilst I was there.

    I have only every had problems in qualifiers away, at which point the authorities and media couldn't give a monkeys about 2k England fans having to run the gauntlet! A WC comes round and both of the aforementioned go into overdrive.

    Will individual people run into problems? Of course! Will there be large scale problems? Possibly early on, but I'd be surprised if its sustained! IF we had drawn Russia that would have been a different kettle of fish and made me think twice.

    i also have the mentioned tickets that wont be used, and will be fully expecting a refund ha!
    Apart from the ten percent admin fee (£360 World Cup final ticket) which FIFA takes from each ticket.
  • We are off the Russia end of April going to Moscow and St Petersburg and can agree that the visa questionnaire is really ridiculous, however despite warnings of 3hr waits we were in and out of the visa office in 15-20 minutes and that included having to have new photos done because the ones we had were deemed to be "too old". So if you are going get a suitable photo done as they charge you £8 at the visa office.

    On the subject of The World Cup I wouldn't go for free as I suspect that England fans are going to get targeted, which doesn't make a lot of sense you would have thought the Germans would be No1 on the hit list but there you go. Good luck to anyone going.
  • Did a 7 day boat trip from St petersburg to Moscow in August. All the Russians we met were charming and friendly. As someone said they hate how they are portrayed which they insist is due to fake news from cnn. For example they claim they were not in Ukraine and that was merely people living there wanting to return to Russian rule.

    As an aside and stating the obvious, Women over 50 are Stretcher cases. Under 30's however ..........
  • Russia has thousands of young men who train to fight and lead an almost monastic existence to achieve professional athlete conditioning. These are not football hooligans in the sense we understand the term. They are just young men of violence. Not all will be be ultra right wing or ultra anything. They just like physical violence.

    To think that these groups are going to sit on the sidelines and watch beered up football wannabes lording it through their towns is I think at best unlikely.

    I also doubt that local police will be too bothered despite instructions from Moscow.

    I could be wrong.

    the majority make monkey noises along with a lot of other eastern european fans, of course it will be the england fans fault for singing national anthems some songs about terrorists and getting beered up just like every other nation do except from its acceptable to batter the english because they were looking for it.
    Their football ultras do I’m sure make monkey chants but a lot of these fighting groups are not aligned with any football club although some are.

    I genuinely think that football fans of any nation will be a target for them but the more provocative those fans are the more of a target they will become. England fans do indeed have a reputation that will attract attention and if it does kick off then just like before the Russians will batter anyone that fits the bill.

    Just my opinion but singing nationalistic songs and giving it large won’t be a good idea at this World Cup.

  • We need to get Barry Stanton over there. He’d sort ‘em right out!
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  • Russia has thousands of young men who train to fight and lead an almost monastic existence to achieve professional athlete conditioning. These are not football hooligans in the sense we understand the term. They are just young men of violence. Not all will be be ultra right wing or ultra anything. They just like physical violence.

    To think that these groups are going to sit on the sidelines and watch beered up football wannabes lording it through their towns is I think at best unlikely.

    I also doubt that local police will be too bothered despite instructions from Moscow.

    I could be wrong.

    the majority make monkey noises along with a lot of other eastern european fans, of course it will be the england fans fault for singing national anthems some songs about terrorists and getting beered up just like every other nation do except from its acceptable to batter the english because they were looking for it.
    Their football ultras do I’m sure make monkey chants but a lot of these fighting groups are not aligned with any football club although some are.

    I genuinely think that football fans of any nation will be a target for them but the more provocative those fans are the more of a target they will become. England fans do indeed have a reputation that will attract attention and if it does kick off then just like before the Russians will batter anyone that fits the bill.

    Just my opinion but singing nationalistic songs and giving it large won’t be a good idea at this World Cup.

    Singing nationalistic songs will be sung by every nation that qualifies.

    It is what it is I'm afraid
  • We now have the 2 most powerful countries in the world led by total and utter c**ts. And we are running around trying to get the crumbs from their table.
  • We now have the 2 most powerful countries in the world led by total and utter c**ts. And we are running around trying to get the crumbs from their table.

    I'm not sure Russia ever wasn't, except fleetingly. It's like some kind of awful car-crash, reality TV show where nations compete to elect (well, ok) the worst possible head of state. America was lagging way behind but has closed the gap massively in the last year.
  • We need to get Barry Stanton over there. He’d sort ‘em right out!

    Send over Ronnie Pickering
  • I'm certainly not going to Russia for the World Cup, but if I had time/money I wouldn't rule it out. Yes, there will probably be some bother, as there often is, but I think most people can generally see it coming and clear off. I also think that the football mobs/far right groups in Russia are in an arms length relationship with the state. When they are fulfilling Putin's aims, they are fine. If they overreach, the state is brutal in repressing them (very long sentences, assaults, disappearances). Putin wants the World Cup to be a success: these guys will be very tightly controlled and it will be.

    Russia is also a country that has a football heritage, so it's not like it going to Qatar.
  • I’m going to the Belgium game and got tickets for the semi and final aswell, the media hype about them is hilarious, if you don’t want trouble you won’t find it simple as that
  • If you happen to be in the wrong place at the wrong time then you most certainly will find it.

    This reminds me of an incident that took place in Marseille at the Euros. Two young England lads aged late teens had come out of the stadium after the Russia game and were just looking to get away from it all and find safety in their hotel. While trouble was going off all around and getting out of hand they went to some French police officers to ask for safe directions. The French police encouraged them to go down a street that they promised was safe so the lads went down there. A couple of hundred yards down the narrow street they were ambushed by a mob of Russians. One was hit several times around the head with a piece of wood and punched and kicked on the ground and his friend was attacked with an iron bar and a glass table. They both ended up in hospital and were lucky they didn't lose their lives.
  • edited February 2018
    Tend to agree with E-Cafc.

    Wrong place, wrong time has happened to me twice watching England abroad but I got away with just broken ribs and bruises so it’s not as simple as “don’t go looking for it”.

    That said it’s not a definate reason not to go, as the same can apply on a night out here or a simple car journey or basically every walk of life - there are always unfortunate souls in the wrong place at the wrong time.

    But if you can avoid being in those places or those times as much as possible, then it’s sensible to do it.
  • Remember the Euros in Poland and Ukraine? How many stories were there in the build up about how there would be gangs of ultras waiting for visiting fans. Remember South Africa? Howany stories were there about how the gangs from the poor areas were going to be robbing visiting fans at gunpoint. Brazil? Same thing.

    It happens all the time, the media love whipping up the frenzy before a tournament. I know people who have been to all of those tournaments who have nothing but praise for the locals. Fact of the matter is the Russians aren't going to stand for any shit happening on their own soil. Any serious incidents happening will put them back decades from hosting another sporting event. There have been stories (admittedly tucked away from mainstream media) about the authorities clamping down hard on the hooligans in the past year.

    Will something happen this summer? No one can guarantee it won't but I'd be massively shocked if it's anywhere as bad as some are making it out to be.
  • Tend to agree with E-Cafc.

    Wrong place, wrong time has happened to me twice watching England abroad but I got away with just broken ribs and bruises so it’s not as simple as “don’t go looking for it”.

    That said it’s not a definate reason not to go, as the same can apply on a night out here or a simple car journey or basically every walk of life - there are always unfortunate souls in the wrong place at the wrong time.

    But if you can avoid being in those places or those times as much as possible, then it’s sensible to do it.


    Things to avoid in Russia though Irish bars, places were people are signing ten German bombers etc, if you act respectfully have a few beers don’t get lashed right up, I’m pretty confident you won’t get caught up in anything, look there’s always wrong place wrong time but that can happen in England on any day of the week.
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