Yeah and let’s ban them from modelling clothes on the catwalk too. Using a woman because she is pretty and has a nice body just to sell clothes. Sexist fashion designers.
makes bugger all difference to either sport however, they are putting people out of work to make themselves feel better.
the girls themselves, the agencies that book them, the people that coordinate them on the jobs etc etc, all lose income because someone else has decided it shouldn't be done in this day and age.
if they are happy to do it let them.
I must admit, this is the way I see it. A few of these women have been commenting on the interweb that they will now lose income that was always available in the past.
Plus the knock-on detrimental impact on booking agencies, etc.
Is it really that bad a thing if those involved are happy with it?
I don't think it's that bad a thing, if you made a list of all the ways that women could be exploited then ring girls/darts girls/cheerleaders aren't at the top.
I think the "the girls that do it don't mind" line is completely missing the point. I'm sure the girls that do it are paid well and aren't forced into it - however regardless of how willingly they do the job or how well they are paid for it the role itself is based entirely on the objectification of women, it's almost impossible to argue that it isn't.
But you can say the same with good looking women used in advertising
With regard to darts, I think it's rightly a contentious move, mainly because (surprisingly IMO) there isn't much, if any, overt sexualisation or objectification. Walk-on girls seem pretty unhappy with the move, given that in some cases it accounts for a decent proportion of their income.
Obviously, however, there is the "classical" argument that they are there to increase the appeal, and it reinforces certain beauty norms etc, which is an argument that resonates with me, to an extent.
The main thing for me though is that it's a pretty pointless job it seems?
Also, it is worth noting that this was a decision made by the PDC, after consulting with broadcast partners. I haven't seen any big campaigns to drop walk-on girls, certainly not within my feminist circles.
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F1 - the grid girls argument makes a bit more sense IMO. They're quite often sponsorship tools using sexuality/being pretty to aid and abet this.
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Ultimately - I see this as part of the death of sexism/objectification by a thousand cuts. I can but hope that there is true gender equality in my lifetime.
It's weird. If you want to see women dressed like that you go to a stripers, people go to sport to watch sport funnier enough.
Gets stranger when females are fighting, especially, Paige Van Zant. Perhaps get men to do it for the female fights? There's some equal opportunity prevention of people losing wages.
makes bugger all difference to either sport however, they are putting people out of work to make themselves feel better.
the girls themselves, the agencies that book them, the people that coordinate them on the jobs etc etc, all lose income because someone else has decided it shouldn't be done in this day and age.
if they are happy to do it let them.
I must admit, this is the way I see it. A few of these women have been commenting on the interweb that they will now lose income that was always available in the past.
Plus the knock-on detrimental impact on booking agencies, etc.
Is it really that bad a thing if those involved are happy with it?
I don't think it's that bad a thing, if you made a list of all the ways that women could be exploited then ring girls/darts girls/cheerleaders aren't at the top.
I think the "the girls that do it don't mind" line is completely missing the point. I'm sure the girls that do it are paid well and aren't forced into it - however regardless of how willingly they do the job or how well they are paid for it the role itself is based entirely on the objectification of women, it's almost impossible to argue that it isn't.
But you can say the same with good looking women used in advertising
Quite, I don't think we should be objectifying women (or men) in 2018.
Ridiculous really, if the ladies were that bothered they wouldn't be doing it. It's more glamour, yes we all love a bit of eye candy but if girls want to earn money from walking onto a stage there shouldn't be an issue. Probably more down to the perception as they are always stunning and down to image i guess.
Wont be a huge loss but still like with page 3 etc. its down to the people who are doing it, if they are happy then who cares.
Yeah and let’s ban them from modelling clothes on the catwalk too. Using a woman because she is pretty and has a nice body just to sell clothes. Sexist fashion designers.
Fashion is the next Hollywood. It's fucking predatory and I really dislike the industry.
You have people like Mario Testino and Bruce Weber, photographers like Terry Richardson (scumbag) and the like, and it's a really really SHIT industry where both men and women (mainly women) are sexually exploited to "get ahead".
makes bugger all difference to either sport however, they are putting people out of work to make themselves feel better.
the girls themselves, the agencies that book them, the people that coordinate them on the jobs etc etc, all lose income because someone else has decided it shouldn't be done in this day and age.
if they are happy to do it let them.
I must admit, this is the way I see it. A few of these women have been commenting on the interweb that they will now lose income that was always available in the past.
Plus the knock-on detrimental impact on booking agencies, etc.
Is it really that bad a thing if those involved are happy with it?
I don't think it's that bad a thing, if you made a list of all the ways that women could be exploited then ring girls/darts girls/cheerleaders aren't at the top.
I think the "the girls that do it don't mind" line is completely missing the point. I'm sure the girls that do it are paid well and aren't forced into it - however regardless of how willingly they do the job or how well they are paid for it the role itself is based entirely on the objectification of women, it's almost impossible to argue that it isn't.
But you can say the same with good looking women used in advertising
Quite, I don't think we should be objectifying women (or men) in 2018.
After people moaning on here about Brexit will ring girls be the next thing people will claim has wrecked the UK economy? Even though someone will probably still wave a round number around in between rounds?
Are they really being objectified though... i.e. Below is what they've worn for some races, its not demeaning to women (i.e. not really showing off their bodies) and they're simply standing there holding a flag rather than making the car or driver look sexy or cool
makes bugger all difference to either sport however, they are putting people out of work to make themselves feel better.
the girls themselves, the agencies that book them, the people that coordinate them on the jobs etc etc, all lose income because someone else has decided it shouldn't be done in this day and age.
if they are happy to do it let them.
I must admit, this is the way I see it. A few of these women have been commenting on the interweb that they will now lose income that was always available in the past.
Plus the knock-on detrimental impact on booking agencies, etc.
Is it really that bad a thing if those involved are happy with it?
I don't think it's that bad a thing, if you made a list of all the ways that women could be exploited then ring girls/darts girls/cheerleaders aren't at the top.
I think the "the girls that do it don't mind" line is completely missing the point. I'm sure the girls that do it are paid well and aren't forced into it - however regardless of how willingly they do the job or how well they are paid for it the role itself is based entirely on the objectification of women, it's almost impossible to argue that it isn't.
But you can say the same with good looking women used in advertising
Quite, I don't think we should be objectifying women (or men) in 2018.
My 9 year old had a grid girl holding his board up when he pulled up at the grid for a kart race at the weekend. He is still just about at the age where he says girls smell of poo - so he didnt know what to make of it. But he races against 13-14 year olds who were probably using all their willpower not to leave on the warm up lap with a tent in their laps
makes bugger all difference to either sport however, they are putting people out of work to make themselves feel better.
the girls themselves, the agencies that book them, the people that coordinate them on the jobs etc etc, all lose income because someone else has decided it shouldn't be done in this day and age.
if they are happy to do it let them.
I must admit, this is the way I see it. A few of these women have been commenting on the interweb that they will now lose income that was always available in the past.
Plus the knock-on detrimental impact on booking agencies, etc.
Is it really that bad a thing if those involved are happy with it?
I don't think it's that bad a thing, if you made a list of all the ways that women could be exploited then ring girls/darts girls/cheerleaders aren't at the top.
I think the "the girls that do it don't mind" line is completely missing the point. I'm sure the girls that do it are paid well and aren't forced into it - however regardless of how willingly they do the job or how well they are paid for it the role itself is based entirely on the objectification of women, it's almost impossible to argue that it isn't.
But you can say the same with good looking women used in advertising
Quite, I don't think we should be objectifying women (or men) in 2018.
Are they really being objectified though... i.e. Below is what they've worn for some races, its not demeaning to women (i.e. not really showing off their bodies) and they're simply standing there holding a flag rather than making the car or driver look sexy or cool
It's weird. If you want to see women dressed like that you go to a stripers, people go to sport to watch sport funnier enough.
Gets stranger when females are fighting, especially, Paige Van Zant. Perhaps get men to do it for the female fights? There's some equal opportunity prevention of people losing wages.
And as for the gimps that wolf whistle...
Completely agree. I think those getting annoyed about this are the types who moan about precious people getting annoyed about stuff yet they themselves are looking to be outraged by something as well.
I take the point about those women losing income due to this and that is a shame but let's face it, if a strip club shut down I imagine the first thoughts of it's customers aren't going to be "Oh those poor girls, I hope they can make enough for the rent this week".
It doesn't really bother me either way about walk on girls. I don't watch the sports to see them and in reality the only reason to be pro having them there is to ogle at some women with their bodies on show.
Are they really being objectified though... i.e. Below is what they've worn for some races, its not demeaning to women (i.e. not really showing off their bodies) and they're simply standing there holding a flag rather than making the car or driver look sexy or cool
Well, yes they are dressed aren't they? I wonder how much outrage the models on the TVR stand at the 1970 motor show would cause today? Google if you so wish.....
I think the main issue here is how many people go to the darts of F1 because the girls are there? I would be amazed if you could find a single person and it is sexist if you don't have grid guys too. What has suprised me is that they have lasted as long as they have.
makes bugger all difference to either sport however, they are putting people out of work to make themselves feel better.
the girls themselves, the agencies that book them, the people that coordinate them on the jobs etc etc, all lose income because someone else has decided it shouldn't be done in this day and age.
if they are happy to do it let them.
I must admit, this is the way I see it. A few of these women have been commenting on the interweb that they will now lose income that was always available in the past.
Plus the knock-on detrimental impact on booking agencies, etc.
Is it really that bad a thing if those involved are happy with it?
I don't think it's that bad a thing, if you made a list of all the ways that women could be exploited then ring girls/darts girls/cheerleaders aren't at the top.
I think the "the girls that do it don't mind" line is completely missing the point. I'm sure the girls that do it are paid well and aren't forced into it - however regardless of how willingly they do the job or how well they are paid for it the role itself is based entirely on the objectification of women, it's almost impossible to argue that it isn't.
But you can say the same with good looking women used in advertising
Quite, I don't think we should be objectifying women (or men) in 2018.
I think the main issue here is how many people go to the darts of F1 because the girls are there? I would be amazed if you could find a single person and it is sexist if you don't have grid guys too. What has suprised me is that they have lasted as long as they have.
I think you bring up a very good point. I don't follow darts or F1, so has a reason been given as to why they're ending these jobs? I'm wondering if it's just a business decision of lack of ROI.
I think the main issue here is how many people go to the darts of F1 because the girls are there? I would be amazed if you could find a single person and it is sexist if you don't have grid guys too. What has suprised me is that they have lasted as long as they have.
I think you bring up a very good point. I don't follow darts or F1, so has a reason been given as to why they're ending these jobs? I'm wondering if it's just a business decision of lack of ROI.
"Stuart Pringle, managing director of British circuit Silverstone, said: "We wholeheartedly support the decision by F1 to drop the use of grid girls - it is an outdated practice that no longer has a place in sport.""
Are they really being objectified though... i.e. Below is what they've worn for some races, its not demeaning to women (i.e. not really showing off their bodies) and they're simply standing there holding a flag rather than making the car or driver look sexy or cool
pc gone mad, not that there a huge part of either but the women doing it hardly have a gun to there head in theory your actually putting women out of proper work and into more seedy work.
Only if you think women can only do one kind of job...
a good looking girl that wants to do modelling, thats what most pr girls are, they cant earn the money doing sports appearances so will now do glamour modelling.
do you seriously think hazel o sullivan would do that work if she didn't want to.
classic example of people being offended on behalf of others, i would put quite good money on that every single walk on girl from the pdc wanted to do the work.
makes bugger all difference to either sport however, they are putting people out of work to make themselves feel better.
the girls themselves, the agencies that book them, the people that coordinate them on the jobs etc etc, all lose income because someone else has decided it shouldn't be done in this day and age.
if they are happy to do it let them.
I must admit, this is the way I see it. A few of these women have been commenting on the interweb that they will now lose income that was always available in the past.
Plus the knock-on detrimental impact on booking agencies, etc.
Is it really that bad a thing if those involved are happy with it?
I don't think it's that bad a thing, if you made a list of all the ways that women could be exploited then ring girls/darts girls/cheerleaders aren't at the top.
I think the "the girls that do it don't mind" line is completely missing the point. I'm sure the girls that do it are paid well and aren't forced into it - however regardless of how willingly they do the job or how well they are paid for it the role itself is based entirely on the objectification of women, it's almost impossible to argue that it isn't.
But you can say the same with good looking women used in advertising
Quite, I don't think we should be objectifying women (or men) in 2018.
So ban the use of people in advertising?
I don't think anyone is being "banned" are they ?
Okay, "get rid of" people in advertising
No.
Stop objectifying people.
They aren't the same thing.
I'm not sure where you want to draw the line then.
A girl covered in advertisements, standing next to a F1 car.
A girl wearing next to nothing advertising women's perfume.
pc gone mad, not that there a huge part of either but the women doing it hardly have a gun to there head in theory your actually putting women out of proper work and into more seedy work.
Only if you think women can only do one kind of job...
a good looking girl that wants to do modelling, thats what most pr girls are, they cant earn the money doing sports appearances so will now do glamour modelling.
do you seriously think hazel o sullivan would do that work if she didn't want to.
classic example of people being offended on behalf of others, i would put quite good money on that every single walk on girl from the pdc wanted to do the work.
Exploitation and objectification are not the same thing. And I'm offended by them on my own behalf thanks.
why don't we concentrate on women being stoned for looking at another man, or being MADE to cover there whole body because of some weird ruling in saudi arabia. a lot bigger things to worry about in the world but everything's Theresa may's fault and jeremy corbyn is the second coming.
Comments
Obviously, however, there is the "classical" argument that they are there to increase the appeal, and it reinforces certain beauty norms etc, which is an argument that resonates with me, to an extent.
The main thing for me though is that it's a pretty pointless job it seems?
Also, it is worth noting that this was a decision made by the PDC, after consulting with broadcast partners. I haven't seen any big campaigns to drop walk-on girls, certainly not within my feminist circles.
---------------------
F1 - the grid girls argument makes a bit more sense IMO. They're quite often sponsorship tools using sexuality/being pretty to aid and abet this.
---------------------
Ultimately - I see this as part of the death of sexism/objectification by a thousand cuts. I can but hope that there is true gender equality in my lifetime.
Gets stranger when females are fighting, especially, Paige Van Zant. Perhaps get men to do it for the female fights? There's some equal opportunity prevention of people losing wages.
And as for the gimps that wolf whistle...
forum.charltonlife.com
Wont be a huge loss but still like with page 3 etc. its down to the people who are doing it, if they are happy then who cares.
You have people like Mario Testino and Bruce Weber, photographers like Terry Richardson (scumbag) and the like, and it's a really really SHIT industry where both men and women (mainly women) are sexually exploited to "get ahead".
Yeah. Fashion is an awful industry.
I take the point about those women losing income due to this and that is a shame but let's face it, if a strip club shut down I imagine the first thoughts of it's customers aren't going to be "Oh those poor girls, I hope they can make enough for the rent this week".
It doesn't really bother me either way about walk on girls. I don't watch the sports to see them and in reality the only reason to be pro having them there is to ogle at some women with their bodies on show.
Stop objectifying people.
They aren't the same thing.
do you seriously think hazel o sullivan would do that work if she didn't want to.
classic example of people being offended on behalf of others, i would put quite good money on that every single walk on girl from the pdc wanted to do the work.
A girl covered in advertisements, standing next to a F1 car.
A girl wearing next to nothing advertising women's perfume.