Lots of people on here that have a fundamental misunderstanding of the purpose of the museum, or any enterprise set up to save history for future generations.
You don't pick and choose, you collect, collate and display some on a rotation basis.
The museum trustees would in dereliction in their duties if they chose to destroy, or not include something because of pressure from people with an aim to rewrite facts.
The trustees don't have to like all things in the collection, but they do have to save them all. What don't some of you understand? Should they not save any Killer Che Guevara material now?
Have another go at reading some of the comments above from people like Charlton Charlie and Rikofold. Make an effort to understand what they are saying about what constitutes Charlton culture and history (and therefore appropriate for the museum), and what doesn't. As Charlie says:
"...this sticker isn't 'our history' in any way, shape or form. It's a hijacking of us.."
I understand, I just don't agree, it is clearly a part of our history, however much you wish it wasn't.
Just for the record, I've no idea why anyone would produce such a sticker, but it has been produced and is therefore part of our history.
I don't agree with this. I can't see it's anything to do with the club's history. It wasn't made, designed or produced by the club or any of its supporters' groups. I assume the logo wasn't reproduced with permission - and that it wasn't sought. It's nothing at all to do with the club or its history.
If it had been produced by the club and then, for example, withdrawn due to supporters' protest, then it absolutely should be considered an artefact worth keeping. As the argument might be considered part of the club's history. But this sticker is just a design ripped off from another design from the same politician, from another club; and further reproduced by other, equally irrelevant clubs.
It's got nothing to do with Charlton, its supporters or its history. I think the trustees are making a rare but stupid mistake including it.
The purpose of the museum is to preserve history. Warts and all!
It doesn’t have to be agreed with or liked to be part of history, it just has to be part of Charlton.
One persons wart is another persons beauty spot! It works both ways.
But the purpose of the museum isn't to preserve *all* history, is it? Surely it should only aim to preserve *Charlton* history. And that's precisely what that sticker isn't.
I absolutely detest the sticker and shame on whatever fans are using them but a museum should be impartial. Despite all the great work the club does, stickers like these, booing the knee etc has been part of our fan culture, even if it's only a minority of idiots. As much as I'd love to forget about that side of our fanbase, it does exist and the museum shouldn't censor it, if anything it further highlights and provides context to the importance of the great work the club and community trust do in tackling these issues.
I absolutely detest the sticker and shame on whatever fans are using them but a museum should be impartial. Despite all the great work the club does, stickers like these, booing the knee etc has been part of our fan culture, even if it's only a minority of idiots. As much as I'd love to forget about that side of our fanbase, it does exist and the museum shouldn't censor it, if anything it further highlights and provides context to the importance of the great work the club and community trust do in tackling these issues.
I hear what you are saying and in principle I agree...BUT...this isn't anything to do with CAFC/our culture/our history...you can find the same sticker with a number of clubs attached...it is a campaign to hijack our (football) culture, as opposed to being part of it..
Otherwise I could make any sticker with absolutely anything on it, stick a CAFC badge on it and claim it's part of CAFC's heritage and should be preserved, which would be - quite rightly - absolute rubbish.
This is the point. There's a difference between exhibiting something of genuine club culture and a product created for and by another with our badge stuck on it.
There's lots of stuff available to the museum for the CARD, B20 protests for example - wide variety, not all aligned other than by the one objective. But it was a Charlton objective and definitely reflects the prevailing culture that it's our club. Evidencing the pig throwing alongside the invasion of Farnell's office (something personally I objected to) would be genuinely documenting the differences between fan culture in the context of a shared objective.
Let's be honest here - the only (tenuous) connection the Farage sticker has to our culture is that a Charlton fan produced it and stuck our badge on it. The problem with simplistically attributing 'fan culture' status to it is that its content quite palpably doesn't reflect the vast majority of the fan base. Notwithstanding the absence of any context or explanation.
It begs the question, is there a line that 'bad with the good' cannot cross? If not, that's problematic. If there is, then is it drawn in the right place with appropriate context? I can't see the argument in this case, I just can't.
Blocking people from the museum's Twitter for expressing their view of it - and hardly in a way breaching community standards - is at best disproportionate. It's not a great look is it.
If this sticker hasn't been produced by Charlton fans, and hasn't been stuck on the cisterns of away ground toilets (which seem to be the most common location), then I agree.
If it has been produced by Charlton fan(s) and has been used (other locations are available) then like it or not, it's a part of that element and is worth preserving.
If stickers had been a thing when the NF were standing outside The Valley in the late 70s and early 80s, then that would also have been part of our history worth preserving, particularly in the context of our subsequent anti-racism campaigns.
For me, it hinges on whether they were produced by Farage and not used, or were produced by Charlton fans and were used.
I absolutely detest the sticker and shame on whatever fans are using them but a museum should be impartial. Despite all the great work the club does, stickers like these, booing the knee etc has been part of our fan culture, even if it's only a minority of idiots. As much as I'd love to forget about that side of our fanbase, it does exist and the museum shouldn't censor it, if anything it further highlights and provides context to the importance of the great work the club and community trust do in tackling these issues.
I hear what you are saying and in principle I agree...BUT...this isn't anything to do with CAFC/our culture/our history...you can find the same sticker with a number of clubs attached...it is a campaign to hijack our (football) culture, as opposed to being part of it..
Otherwise I could make any sticker with absolutely anything on it, stick a CAFC badge on it and claim it's part of CAFC's heritage and should be preserved, which would be - quite rightly - absolute rubbish.
This is the point. There's a difference between exhibiting something of genuine club culture and a product created for and by another with our badge stuck on it.
There's lots of stuff available to the museum for the CARD, B20 protests for example - wide variety, not all aligned other than by the one objective. But it was a Charlton objective and definitely reflects the prevailing culture that it's our club. Evidencing the pig throwing alongside the invasion of Farnell's office (something personally I objected to) would be genuinely documenting the differences between fan culture in the context of a shared objective.
Let's be honest here - the only (tenuous) connection the Farage sticker has to our culture is that a Charlton fan produced it and stuck our badge on it. The problem with simplistically attributing 'fan culture' status to it is that its content quite palpably doesn't reflect the vast majority of the fan base. Notwithstanding the absence of any context or explanation.
It begs the question, is there a line that 'bad with the good' cannot cross? If not, that's problematic. If there is, then is it drawn in the right place with appropriate context? I can't see the argument in this case, I just can't.
Blocking people from the museum's Twitter for expressing their view of it - and hardly in a way breaching community standards - is at best disproportionate. It's not a great look is it.
If this sticker hasn't been produced by Charlton fans, and hasn't been stuck on the cisterns of away ground toilets (which seem to be the most common location), then I agree.
If it has been produced by Charlton fan(s) and has been used (other locations are available) then like it or not, it's a part of that element and is worth preserving.
If stickers had been a thing when the NF were standing outside The Valley in the late 70s and early 80s, then that would also have been part of our history worth preserving, particularly in the context of our subsequent anti-racism campaigns.
For me, it hinges on whether they were produced by Farage and not used, or were produced by Charlton fans and were used.
Who cares if they show a Charlton sticker with Farage, Starmer or Badenoch - how is that impacting any of you!!
Well a lot of us have supported it financially at various tîmes. I really didnt expect it to start exhibiting such bollocks which has nothing at all to do with the club’s history. Our fan culture is all about getting together across any political divides to save the club at various tîmes. Why would you ruin that with some pathetic little sticker like that, knocked up by a random fan?
Maybe the museum could print out the arguments above and keep them with the sticker showing that the sticker prompted a degree of disagreement between Charlton fans as to whether it was a part of the club's history or not and worthy of keeping in the museum.
Entertainingly and ironically, the disagreements themselves made the sticker a part of the club's history and worthy of retaining as evidence of what exactly had caused the disagreements.
Who cares if they show a Charlton sticker with Farage, Starmer or Badenoch - how is that impacting any of you!!
Well a lot of us have supported it financially at various tîmes. I really didnt expect it to start exhibiting such bollocks which has nothing at all to do with the club’s history. Our fan culture is all about getting together across any political divides to save the club at various tîmes. Why would you ruin that with some pathetic little sticker like that, knocked up by a random fan?
Maybe the museum could print out the arguments above and keep them with the sticker showing that the sticker prompted a degree of disagreement between Charlton fans as to whether it was a part of the club's history or not and worthy of keeping in the museum.
Entertainingly and ironically, the disagreements themselves made the sticker a part of the club's history and worthy of retaining as evidence of what exactly had caused the disagreements.
I absolutely detest the sticker and shame on whatever fans are using them but a museum should be impartial. Despite all the great work the club does, stickers like these, booing the knee etc has been part of our fan culture, even if it's only a minority of idiots. As much as I'd love to forget about that side of our fanbase, it does exist and the museum shouldn't censor it, if anything it further highlights and provides context to the importance of the great work the club and community trust do in tackling these issues.
I hear what you are saying and in principle I agree...BUT...this isn't anything to do with CAFC/our culture/our history...you can find the same sticker with a number of clubs attached...it is a campaign to hijack our (football) culture, as opposed to being part of it..
Otherwise I could make any sticker with absolutely anything on it, stick a CAFC badge on it and claim it's part of CAFC's heritage and should be preserved, which would be - quite rightly - absolute rubbish.
This is the point. There's a difference between exhibiting something of genuine club culture and a product created for and by another with our badge stuck on it.
There's lots of stuff available to the museum for the CARD, B20 protests for example - wide variety, not all aligned other than by the one objective. But it was a Charlton objective and definitely reflects the prevailing culture that it's our club. Evidencing the pig throwing alongside the invasion of Farnell's office (something personally I objected to) would be genuinely documenting the differences between fan culture in the context of a shared objective.
Let's be honest here - the only (tenuous) connection the Farage sticker has to our culture is that a Charlton fan produced it and stuck our badge on it. The problem with simplistically attributing 'fan culture' status to it is that its content quite palpably doesn't reflect the vast majority of the fan base. Notwithstanding the absence of any context or explanation.
It begs the question, is there a line that 'bad with the good' cannot cross? If not, that's problematic. If there is, then is it drawn in the right place with appropriate context? I can't see the argument in this case, I just can't.
Blocking people from the museum's Twitter for expressing their view of it - and hardly in a way breaching community standards - is at best disproportionate. It's not a great look is it.
If this sticker hasn't been produced by Charlton fans, and hasn't been stuck on the cisterns of away ground toilets (which seem to be the most common location), then I agree.
If it has been produced by Charlton fan(s) and has been used (other locations are available) then like it or not, it's a part of that element and is worth preserving.
If stickers had been a thing when the NF were standing outside The Valley in the late 70s and early 80s, then that would also have been part of our history worth preserving, particularly in the context of our subsequent anti-racism campaigns.
For me, it hinges on whether they were produced by Farage and not used, or were produced by Charlton fans and were used.
I absolutely detest the sticker and shame on whatever fans are using them but a museum should be impartial. Despite all the great work the club does, stickers like these, booing the knee etc has been part of our fan culture, even if it's only a minority of idiots. As much as I'd love to forget about that side of our fanbase, it does exist and the museum shouldn't censor it, if anything it further highlights and provides context to the importance of the great work the club and community trust do in tackling these issues.
I hear what you are saying and in principle I agree...BUT...this isn't anything to do with CAFC/our culture/our history...you can find the same sticker with a number of clubs attached...it is a campaign to hijack our (football) culture, as opposed to being part of it..
Otherwise I could make any sticker with absolutely anything on it, stick a CAFC badge on it and claim it's part of CAFC's heritage and should be preserved, which would be - quite rightly - absolute rubbish.
This is the point. There's a difference between exhibiting something of genuine club culture and a product created for and by another with our badge stuck on it.
There's lots of stuff available to the museum for the CARD, B20 protests for example - wide variety, not all aligned other than by the one objective. But it was a Charlton objective and definitely reflects the prevailing culture that it's our club. Evidencing the pig throwing alongside the invasion of Farnell's office (something personally I objected to) would be genuinely documenting the differences between fan culture in the context of a shared objective.
Let's be honest here - the only (tenuous) connection the Farage sticker has to our culture is that a Charlton fan produced it and stuck our badge on it. The problem with simplistically attributing 'fan culture' status to it is that its content quite palpably doesn't reflect the vast majority of the fan base. Notwithstanding the absence of any context or explanation.
It begs the question, is there a line that 'bad with the good' cannot cross? If not, that's problematic. If there is, then is it drawn in the right place with appropriate context? I can't see the argument in this case, I just can't.
Blocking people from the museum's Twitter for expressing their view of it - and hardly in a way breaching community standards - is at best disproportionate. It's not a great look is it.
If this sticker hasn't been produced by Charlton fans, and hasn't been stuck on the cisterns of away ground toilets (which seem to be the most common location), then I agree.
If it has been produced by Charlton fan(s) and has been used (other locations are available) then like it or not, it's a part of that element and is worth preserving.
If stickers had been a thing when the NF were standing outside The Valley in the late 70s and early 80s, then that would also have been part of our history worth preserving, particularly in the context of our subsequent anti-racism campaigns.
For me, it hinges on whether they were produced by Farage and not used, or were produced by Charlton fans and were used.
Just caught up on this - 3 comments - 1. i don't believe it is fact that the stephen lawrence murder gang were charlton fans - in fact i'm pretty sure they weren't, regardless of whether the club said they were banned. 2. of course that farage sticker was gonna be controversial -posted up by the museum's drama queen / wind up merchant and of course there is no way it should be displayed in the museum 3. the museum is a great 'thing' but the museum people need to take a look at themselves and apply some common sense if they genuinely thought it should be displayed. There's a big difference between tacky stickers and historical artefacts that should be preserved.
Just caught up on this - 3 comments - 1. i don't believe it is fact that the stephen lawrence murder gang were charlton fans - in fact i'm pretty sure they weren't, regardless of whether the club said they were banned. 2. of course that farage sticker was gonna be controversial -posted up by the museum's drama queen / wind up merchant and of course there is no way it should be displayed in the museum 3. the museum is a great 'thing' but the museum people need to take a look at themselves and apply some common sense if they genuinely thought it should be displayed. There's a big difference between tacky stickers and historical artefacts that should be preserved.
They were 100% Charlton fan's and so were some of their dads. One of their dads was with me in Blackpool in 72.so like it or not they were.
Just caught up on this - 3 comments - 1. i don't believe it is fact that the stephen lawrence murder gang were charlton fans - in fact i'm pretty sure they weren't, regardless of whether the club said they were banned. 2. of course that farage sticker was gonna be controversial -posted up by the museum's drama queen / wind up merchant and of course there is no way it should be displayed in the museum 3. the museum is a great 'thing' but the museum people need to take a look at themselves and apply some common sense if they genuinely thought it should be displayed. There's a big difference between tacky stickers and historical artefacts that should be preserved.
They were 100% Charlton fan's and so were some of their dads. One of their dads was with me in Blackpool in 72.so like it or not they were.
Just caught up on this - 3 comments - 1. i don't believe it is fact that the stephen lawrence murder gang were charlton fans - in fact i'm pretty sure they weren't, regardless of whether the club said they were banned. 2. of course that farage sticker was gonna be controversial -posted up by the museum's drama queen / wind up merchant and of course there is no way it should be displayed in the museum 3. the museum is a great 'thing' but the museum people need to take a look at themselves and apply some common sense if they genuinely thought it should be displayed. There's a big difference between tacky stickers and historical artefacts that should be preserved.
They were 100% Charlton fan's and so were some of their dads. One of their dads was with me in Blackpool in 72.so like it or not they were.
Fair enough but it’s a surprise to me
I appreciate that there are lots of younger supporters on here, who may have largely supported the club, through a history of Community Family and Diversity being promoted. However, whilst we talk on this thread about if it’s history it has to true, and completely Charlton related. There is no denying that the Covered End through the Seventies was no place for shrinking violets. It was a true community yes, but one based on a tribal element, with violence and racism as bad as some of the worst seen across the country. Whilst numerically we were way behind , the infamous fan groups of that age, in reputation for our size we were well respected group, by those that came up against us.
So a little sticker in 2025, is not tarnishing 120 years of our perfect past. Would I include it in the collection “NO”. Am I bothered that it is “NO”.
Just caught up on this - 3 comments - 1. i don't believe it is fact that the stephen lawrence murder gang were charlton fans - in fact i'm pretty sure they weren't, regardless of whether the club said they were banned. 2. of course that farage sticker was gonna be controversial -posted up by the museum's drama queen / wind up merchant and of course there is no way it should be displayed in the museum 3. the museum is a great 'thing' but the museum people need to take a look at themselves and apply some common sense if they genuinely thought it should be displayed. There's a big difference between tacky stickers and historical artefacts that should be preserved.
They were 100% Charlton fan's and so were some of their dads. One of their dads was with me in Blackpool in 72.so like it or not they were.
Fair enough but it’s a surprise to me
I appreciate that there are lots of younger supporters on here, who may have largely supported the club, through a history of Community Family and Diversity being promoted. However, whilst we talk on this thread about if it’s history it has to true, and completely Charlton related. There is no denying that the Covered End through the Seventies was no place for shrinking violets. It was a true community yes, but one based on a tribal element, with violence and racism as bad as some of the worst seen across the country. Whilst numerically we were way behind , the infamous fan groups of that age, in reputation for our size we were well respected group, by those that came up against us.
So a little sticker in 2025, is not tarnishing 120 years of our perfect past. Would I include it in the collection “NO”. Am I bothered that it is “NO”.
I don't have any issues with what went on in the covered end in the 70's - its part of football culture and i watched quite a lot of it from the east terrace as a kid (big games i wasn't allowed in the covered end and had to stand with my dad, being of primary school age!!) but why we would want a political badge with farage on it in the museum, i've got no idea - and btw, i think Blackpool is referring to the Stephen Lawrence gang - i'm surprised because i grew up in eltham around that time, i know people who know them quite well and my path has crossed there's on occasion since. Had and have never seen any of them at the valley or ever sporting any charlton related stuff and neither do their kids, having seen them at many junior football matches as have kids the same age, hence my surprise. Anyway, all i'm saying is that that farage sticker stands out as being a completely wrong thing to put in the museum and common sense would tell you it would be massively controversial to even consider it.
Do I believe that the sticker is part of Charlton's history? Absolutely not - it is more to do with the political and social history of the UK, and on an individual level the personal history of the 'fan' who procured the sticker in the first place. Perversely, discussing it on this forum perhaps makes it part of our history because I firmly believe that Charlton Life has more than earned its place in our history. I despise Farage, much as I despise most politicians, but my personal political views have nothing whatsoever to do with Charlton Athletic's history.
If the Trustees of the Museum believe it to be part of our history then that is their decision, whether we agree or disagree. Should it have been publicised as such? No, I think that was a miscalculation at best - but that miscalculation was magnified a thousand times by the actions of whoever controls the Museum's socials when they chose to attempt to silence dissent.
And as an aside, when did stickers finally become a footie 'thing' in England? I ask because I'm familiar with them from Germany in particular and had been pretty happy that they were not an English thing. Now, and being a bit more controversial, which fanbase is notorious for adopting Continental fan fashions? Clue, it isn't Charlton, second clue, they are a bunch of twats and always have been. And Farage, if we believe he even cares that much, is said to regard the club concerned as his chosen one...
Just when we seem to have little to moan about and the supporter base seems more unified than it has since the pre duchatalet days, our museum socials man has decided to post up a sticker which was only ever going to do one thing - cause an argument. Some people just can't help themselves.
And as an aside, when did stickers finally become a footie 'thing' in England? I ask because I'm familiar with them from Germany in particular and had been pretty happy that they were not an English thing. Now, and being a bit more controversial, which fanbase is notorious for adopting Continental fan fashions? Clue, it isn't Charlton, second clue, they are a bunch of twats and always have been. And Farage, if we believe he even cares that much, is said to regard the club concerned as his chosen one...
They've been around for a relatively long time, probably over a decade. There's an article here originally from WSC in 2017 here
The Museum Trustees decide what's "in" and what's "out", insofar as the museum is concerned. That's how it should be. And their decision might be swayed by the reaction of fans. In the end, it's entirely the Trustees' call. Fans have a right to make their feelings known; the Trustees have earned the right to make their own decisions. I think the sticker's inclusion is a mistake; but my view is less important than that of the Trustees.
The social media blocking of fans who, en masse, disagreed with the inclusion of the divisive sticker is another matter. That should be overturned. Fans should have the right to view the output of their club's museum.
And as an aside, when did stickers finally become a footie 'thing' in England? I ask because I'm familiar with them from Germany in particular and had been pretty happy that they were not an English thing. Now, and being a bit more controversial, which fanbase is notorious for adopting Continental fan fashions? Clue, it isn't Charlton, second clue, they are a bunch of twats and always have been. And Farage, if we believe he even cares that much, is said to regard the club concerned as his chosen one...
They've been around for a relatively long time, probably over a decade. There's an article here originally from WSC in 2017 here
Comments
If it had been produced by the club and then, for example, withdrawn due to supporters' protest, then it absolutely should be considered an artefact worth keeping. As the argument might be considered part of the club's history. But this sticker is just a design ripped off from another design from the same politician, from another club; and further reproduced by other, equally irrelevant clubs.
It's got nothing to do with Charlton, its supporters or its history. I think the trustees are making a rare but stupid mistake including it.
The rest of us are a tad nervous about Russia/Ukraine/Europe/US.
One of their dads was with me in Blackpool in 72.so like it or not they were.
https://www.theguardian.com/football/when-saturday-comes-blog/2018/mar/26/football-stickers-panini-photography
The social media blocking of fans who, en masse, disagreed with the inclusion of the divisive sticker is another matter. That should be overturned. Fans should have the right to view the output of their club's museum.
Usually only get a few likes for each new item.
I'll post other new items as they come in and look forward to more positive feedback and discussion.
Glad to hear it isn't a thing that started with Palace.