Why on earth would someone create a CAFC sticker with Farage on it - it’s well known that he is a Palace fan !!!
More to the point of why would the Museum take in a sticker with Farage on it.
Careful now, I was blocked by the Museum for asking the very same question on Twitter/X just yesterday.....pathetic behaviour from whoever had the keys to the social media account....
Why on earth would someone create a CAFC sticker with Farage on it - it’s well known that he is a Palace fan !!!
More to the point of why would the Museum take in a sticker with Farage on it.
Careful now, I was blocked by the Museum for asking the very same question on Twitter/X just yesterday.....pathetic behaviour from whoever had the keys to the social media account....
Snap... I was also blocked by them yesterday for asking.
Why on earth would someone create a CAFC sticker with Farage on it - it’s well known that he is a Palace fan !!!
More to the point of why would the Museum take in a sticker with Farage on it.
Careful now, I was blocked by the Museum for asking the very same question on Twitter/X just yesterday.....pathetic behaviour from whoever had the keys to the social media account....
Snap... I was also blocked by them yesterday for asking.
Ridiculous...if only we had an idea who it was....hmmmmmm....
The second anyone starts to censor the visibility in the UK of elected MPs, whether you hate them or not, is the start of a very slippery slope.
If the stickers are a part of our history, then show them all.
I think the question is rather; should stickers in general be seen as part of our history. Ultimately that's at the discretion of the trustees / curators.
That particular sticker is not part of our history tho....it's a campaign on behalf of that individual and that sticker has been produced for multiple clubs... It's an attempt to hijack football culture, rather than engage with it/have any meaning for (any) of the clubs involved. If it's relevant to any club, it's Pal*ce, as he supports them.
I absolutely detest the sticker and shame on whatever fans are using them but a museum should be impartial. Despite all the great work the club does, stickers like these, booing the knee etc has been part of our fan culture, even if it's only a minority of idiots. As much as I'd love to forget about that side of our fanbase, it does exist and the museum shouldn't censor it, if anything it further highlights and provides context to the importance of the great work the club and community trust do in tackling these issues.
I absolutely detest the sticker and shame on whatever fans are using them but a museum should be impartial. Despite all the great work the club does, stickers like these, booing the knee etc has been part of our fan culture, even if it's only a minority of idiots. As much as I'd love to forget about that side of our fanbase, it does exist and the museum shouldn't censor it, if anything it further highlights and provides context to the importance of the great work the club and community trust do in tackling these issues.
I hear what you are saying and in principle I agree...BUT...this isn't anything to do with CAFC/our culture/our history...you can find the same sticker with a number of clubs attached...it is a campaign to hijack our (football) culture, as opposed to being part of it..
Otherwise I could make any sticker with absolutely anything on it, stick a CAFC badge on it and claim it's part of CAFC's heritage and should be preserved, which would be - quite rightly - absolute rubbish.
I absolutely detest the sticker and shame on whatever fans are using them but a museum should be impartial. Despite all the great work the club does, stickers like these, booing the knee etc has been part of our fan culture, even if it's only a minority of idiots. As much as I'd love to forget about that side of our fanbase, it does exist and the museum shouldn't censor it, if anything it further highlights and provides context to the importance of the great work the club and community trust do in tackling these issues.
I hear what you are saying and in principle I agree...BUT...this isn't anything to do with CAFC/our culture/our history...you can find the same sticker with a number of clubs attached...it is a campaign to hijack our (football) culture, as opposed to being part of it..
Otherwise I could make any sticker with absolutely anything on it, stick a CAFC badge on it and claim it's part of CAFC's heritage and should be preserved, which would be - quite rightly - absolute rubbish.
This is the point. There's a difference between exhibiting something of genuine club culture and a product created for and by another with our badge stuck on it.
There's lots of stuff available to the museum for the CARD, B20 protests for example - wide variety, not all aligned other than by the one objective. But it was a Charlton objective and definitely reflects the prevailing culture that it's our club. Evidencing the pig throwing alongside the invasion of Farnell's office (something personally I objected to) would be genuinely documenting the differences between fan culture in the context of a shared objective.
Let's be honest here - the only (tenuous) connection the Farage sticker has to our culture is that a Charlton fan produced it and stuck our badge on it. The problem with simplistically attributing 'fan culture' status to it is that its content quite palpably doesn't reflect the vast majority of the fan base. Notwithstanding the absence of any context or explanation.
It begs the question, is there a line that 'bad with the good' cannot cross? If not, that's problematic. If there is, then is it drawn in the right place with appropriate context? I can't see the argument in this case, I just can't.
Blocking people from the museum's Twitter for expressing their view of it - and hardly in a way breaching community standards - is at best disproportionate. It's not a great look is it.
I absolutely detest the sticker and shame on whatever fans are using them but a museum should be impartial. Despite all the great work the club does, stickers like these, booing the knee etc has been part of our fan culture, even if it's only a minority of idiots. As much as I'd love to forget about that side of our fanbase, it does exist and the museum shouldn't censor it, if anything it further highlights and provides context to the importance of the great work the club and community trust do in tackling these issues.
I hear what you are saying and in principle I agree...BUT...this isn't anything to do with CAFC/our culture/our history...you can find the same sticker with a number of clubs attached...it is a campaign to hijack our (football) culture, as opposed to being part of it..
Otherwise I could make any sticker with absolutely anything on it, stick a CAFC badge on it and claim it's part of CAFC's heritage and should be preserved, which would be - quite rightly - absolute rubbish.
This is the point. There's a difference between exhibiting something of genuine club culture and a product created for and by another with our badge stuck on it.
There's lots of stuff available to the museum for the CARD, B20 protests for example - wide variety, not all aligned other than by the one objective. But it was a Charlton objective and definitely reflects the prevailing culture that it's our club. Evidencing the pig throwing alongside the invasion of Farnell's office (something personally I objected to) would be genuinely documenting the differences between fan culture in the context of a shared objective.
Let's be honest here - the only (tenuous) connection the Farage sticker has to our culture is that a Charlton fan produced it and stuck our badge on it. The problem with simplistically attributing 'fan culture' status to it is that its content quite palpably doesn't reflect the vast majority of the fan base. Notwithstanding the absence of any context or explanation.
It begs the question, is there a line that 'bad with the good' cannot cross? If not, that's problematic. If there is, then is it drawn in the right place with appropriate context? I can't see the argument in this case, I just can't.
Blocking people from the museum's Twitter for expressing their view of it - and hardly in a way breaching community standards - is at best disproportionate. It's not a great look is it.
I absolutely detest the sticker and shame on whatever fans are using them but a museum should be impartial. Despite all the great work the club does, stickers like these, booing the knee etc has been part of our fan culture, even if it's only a minority of idiots. As much as I'd love to forget about that side of our fanbase, it does exist and the museum shouldn't censor it, if anything it further highlights and provides context to the importance of the great work the club and community trust do in tackling these issues.
I hear what you are saying and in principle I agree...BUT...this isn't anything to do with CAFC/our culture/our history...you can find the same sticker with a number of clubs attached...it is a campaign to hijack our (football) culture, as opposed to being part of it..
Otherwise I could make any sticker with absolutely anything on it, stick a CAFC badge on it and claim it's part of CAFC's heritage and should be preserved, which would be - quite rightly - absolute rubbish.
This is the point. There's a difference between exhibiting something of genuine club culture and a product created for and by another with our badge stuck on it.
There's lots of stuff available to the museum for the CARD, B20 protests for example - wide variety, not all aligned other than by the one objective. But it was a Charlton objective and definitely reflects the prevailing culture that it's our club. Evidencing the pig throwing alongside the invasion of Farnell's office (something personally I objected to) would be genuinely documenting the differences between fan culture in the context of a shared objective.
Let's be honest here - the only (tenuous) connection the Farage sticker has to our culture is that a Charlton fan produced it and stuck our badge on it. The problem with simplistically attributing 'fan culture' status to it is that its content quite palpably doesn't reflect the vast majority of the fan base. Notwithstanding the absence of any context or explanation.
It begs the question, is there a line that 'bad with the good' cannot cross? If not, that's problematic. If there is, then is it drawn in the right place with appropriate context? I can't see the argument in this case, I just can't.
Blocking people from the museum's Twitter for expressing their view of it - and hardly in a way breaching community standards - is at best disproportionate. It's not a great look is it.
If this sticker hasn't been produced by Charlton fans, and hasn't been stuck on the cisterns of away ground toilets (which seem to be the most common location), then I agree.
If it has been produced by Charlton fan(s) and has been used (other locations are available) then like it or not, it's a part of that element and is worth preserving.
If stickers had been a thing when the NF were standing outside The Valley in the late 70s and early 80s, then that would also have been part of our history worth preserving, particularly in the context of our subsequent anti-racism campaigns.
For me, it hinges on whether they were produced by Farage and not used, or were produced by Charlton fans and were used.
I absolutely detest the sticker and shame on whatever fans are using them but a museum should be impartial. Despite all the great work the club does, stickers like these, booing the knee etc has been part of our fan culture, even if it's only a minority of idiots. As much as I'd love to forget about that side of our fanbase, it does exist and the museum shouldn't censor it, if anything it further highlights and provides context to the importance of the great work the club and community trust do in tackling these issues.
I hear what you are saying and in principle I agree...BUT...this isn't anything to do with CAFC/our culture/our history...you can find the same sticker with a number of clubs attached...it is a campaign to hijack our (football) culture, as opposed to being part of it..
Otherwise I could make any sticker with absolutely anything on it, stick a CAFC badge on it and claim it's part of CAFC's heritage and should be preserved, which would be - quite rightly - absolute rubbish.
This is the point. There's a difference between exhibiting something of genuine club culture and a product created for and by another with our badge stuck on it.
There's lots of stuff available to the museum for the CARD, B20 protests for example - wide variety, not all aligned other than by the one objective. But it was a Charlton objective and definitely reflects the prevailing culture that it's our club. Evidencing the pig throwing alongside the invasion of Farnell's office (something personally I objected to) would be genuinely documenting the differences between fan culture in the context of a shared objective.
Let's be honest here - the only (tenuous) connection the Farage sticker has to our culture is that a Charlton fan produced it and stuck our badge on it. The problem with simplistically attributing 'fan culture' status to it is that its content quite palpably doesn't reflect the vast majority of the fan base. Notwithstanding the absence of any context or explanation.
It begs the question, is there a line that 'bad with the good' cannot cross? If not, that's problematic. If there is, then is it drawn in the right place with appropriate context? I can't see the argument in this case, I just can't.
Blocking people from the museum's Twitter for expressing their view of it - and hardly in a way breaching community standards - is at best disproportionate. It's not a great look is it.
If this sticker hasn't been produced by Charlton fans, and hasn't been stuck on the cisterns of away ground toilets (which seem to be the most common location), then I agree.
If it has been produced by Charlton fan(s) and has been used (other locations are available) then like it or not, it's a part of that element and is worth preserving.
If stickers had been a thing when the NF were standing outside The Valley in the late 70s and early 80s, then that would also have been part of our history worth preserving, particularly in the context of our subsequent anti-racism campaigns.
For me, it hinges on whether they were produced by Farage and not used, or were produced by Charlton fans and were used.
As a museum we have to archive items good or bad. One person's good, is another person's bad.
If we go down the road of censorship then we are not impartial and we will also be failing our duties of not preserving our history accurately.
It's worth pointing out, that we have recent protest material within our archives that some people were against at the time.
Personally, and I am sure I speak for the rest of the trustee's and state that we are not a fan of the Nigel sticker but we feel it's our duty to archive it as it reflects "some" fans attitude at this moment in time.
It also serves as a reminder that their is still plenty of work to do.
As a museum we have to archive items good or bad. One person's good, is another person's bad.
If we go down the road of censorship then we are not impartial and we will also be failing our duties of not preserving our history accurately.
It's worth pointing out, that we have recent protest material within our archives that some people were against at the time.
Personally, and I am sure I speak for the rest of the trustee's and state that we are not a fan of the Nigel sticker but we feel it's our duty to archive it as it reflects "some" fans attitude at this moment in time.
It also serves as a reminder that their is still plenty of work to do.
Absolutely agree re: censorship...you preserve the good and the bad....but that doesn't address the 'validity' of this sticker.. A quick google will show you the same sticker with West Ham, Chelsea, Wrexham and Chef Wendy to name a few. It's a political statement that is trying to hijack football culture, rather than a genuine piece of CAFCs cultural heritage/history.
By this reasoning, if I go and make a sticker with each of the people from this article and put a CAFC badge on each of their faces, do we put this in the museum, if I claim it was my (genuine) desire to want to remember/celebrate them?
I absolutely detest the sticker and shame on whatever fans are using them but a museum should be impartial. Despite all the great work the club does, stickers like these, booing the knee etc has been part of our fan culture, even if it's only a minority of idiots. As much as I'd love to forget about that side of our fanbase, it does exist and the museum shouldn't censor it, if anything it further highlights and provides context to the importance of the great work the club and community trust do in tackling these issues.
I hear what you are saying and in principle I agree...BUT...this isn't anything to do with CAFC/our culture/our history...you can find the same sticker with a number of clubs attached...it is a campaign to hijack our (football) culture, as opposed to being part of it..
Otherwise I could make any sticker with absolutely anything on it, stick a CAFC badge on it and claim it's part of CAFC's heritage and should be preserved, which would be - quite rightly - absolute rubbish.
This is the point. There's a difference between exhibiting something of genuine club culture and a product created for and by another with our badge stuck on it.
There's lots of stuff available to the museum for the CARD, B20 protests for example - wide variety, not all aligned other than by the one objective. But it was a Charlton objective and definitely reflects the prevailing culture that it's our club. Evidencing the pig throwing alongside the invasion of Farnell's office (something personally I objected to) would be genuinely documenting the differences between fan culture in the context of a shared objective.
Let's be honest here - the only (tenuous) connection the Farage sticker has to our culture is that a Charlton fan produced it and stuck our badge on it. The problem with simplistically attributing 'fan culture' status to it is that its content quite palpably doesn't reflect the vast majority of the fan base. Notwithstanding the absence of any context or explanation.
It begs the question, is there a line that 'bad with the good' cannot cross? If not, that's problematic. If there is, then is it drawn in the right place with appropriate context? I can't see the argument in this case, I just can't.
Blocking people from the museum's Twitter for expressing their view of it - and hardly in a way breaching community standards - is at best disproportionate. It's not a great look is it.
If this sticker hasn't been produced by Charlton fans, and hasn't been stuck on the cisterns of away ground toilets (which seem to be the most common location), then I agree.
If it has been produced by Charlton fan(s) and has been used (other locations are available) then like it or not, it's a part of that element and is worth preserving.
If stickers had been a thing when the NF were standing outside The Valley in the late 70s and early 80s, then that would also have been part of our history worth preserving, particularly in the context of our subsequent anti-racism campaigns.
For me, it hinges on whether they were produced by Farage and not used, or were produced by Charlton fans and were used.
Where's the line?
There isn't one - history is history - the context provided is what makes it worthy of museum inclusion.
I just went around the Karlshorst Museum in Berlin. There is no line drawn there in what is shown, and rightly so.
Comments
Waiting on the club to run it as a story on the OS.
Probably held up by all our signings
Agree or disagree these stickers are part of fan culture now so we'd like to get more of them.
So preserving as many examples as possible is important.
We currently have a lot more away than homes probably as many fans had season tickets.
Here's some donated yesterday.
Careful now, I was blocked by the Museum for asking the very same question on Twitter/X just yesterday.....pathetic behaviour from whoever had the keys to the social media account....
Ridiculous...if only we had an idea who it was....hmmmmmm....
If the stickers are a part of our history, then show them all.
If they are, then you include all stickers.
There's lots of stuff available to the museum for the CARD, B20 protests for example - wide variety, not all aligned other than by the one objective. But it was a Charlton objective and definitely reflects the prevailing culture that it's our club. Evidencing the pig throwing alongside the invasion of Farnell's office (something personally I objected to) would be genuinely documenting the differences between fan culture in the context of a shared objective.
Let's be honest here - the only (tenuous) connection the Farage sticker has to our culture is that a Charlton fan produced it and stuck our badge on it. The problem with simplistically attributing 'fan culture' status to it is that its content quite palpably doesn't reflect the vast majority of the fan base. Notwithstanding the absence of any context or explanation.
It begs the question, is there a line that 'bad with the good' cannot cross? If not, that's problematic. If there is, then is it drawn in the right place with appropriate context? I can't see the argument in this case, I just can't.
Blocking people from the museum's Twitter for expressing their view of it - and hardly in a way breaching community standards - is at best disproportionate. It's not a great look is it.
Very well said.
If it has been produced by Charlton fan(s) and has been used (other locations are available) then like it or not, it's a part of that element and is worth preserving.
If stickers had been a thing when the NF were standing outside The Valley in the late 70s and early 80s, then that would also have been part of our history worth preserving, particularly in the context of our subsequent anti-racism campaigns.
For me, it hinges on whether they were produced by Farage and not used, or were produced by Charlton fans and were used.
If we go down the road of censorship then we are not impartial and we will also be failing our duties of not preserving our history accurately.
It's worth pointing out, that we have recent protest material within our archives that some people were against at the time.
Personally, and I am sure I speak for the rest of the trustee's and state that we are not a fan of the Nigel sticker but we feel it's our duty to archive it as it reflects "some" fans attitude at this moment in time.
It also serves as a reminder that their is still plenty of work to do.
I just went around the Karlshorst Museum in Berlin. There is no line drawn there in what is shown, and rightly so.