Woody Allen sounds like another piece of work who has been allowed to get away with his behaviour - if you're rich and powerful somehow you are indulged.
All very grubby....
Just because he married his adopted daughter doesn't make him a piece of work or very grubby. This is 2017 try being less judgemental.
Sorry there’s something very wrong in marrying your step daughter who you then adopted.
I'm sorry too. There must be dozens of East Anglian Addicks who are in exactly the same kind of relationship. I don't feel that your sanctimonious tone is acceptable when it's bound to cause such widespread offense.
Woody Allen sounds like another piece of work who has been allowed to get away with his behaviour - if you're rich and powerful somehow you are indulged.
All very grubby....
Just because he married his adopted daughter doesn't make him a piece of work or very grubby. This is 2017 try being less judgemental.
Sorry there’s something very wrong in marrying your step daughter who you then adopted.
I don't think he adopted her, if he had it wouldn't just be very wrong, it would also be very illegal. Still a very strange situation though with that chap and the abuse claims seem to add to that.
Nick Ferrari on LBC was talking about this topic this morning.
A bloke texted in stating something like "I think the media have totally underestimated just how uninteresting this story is to single white middle aged, middle class men"
I almost crashed the car in glee that someone had texted in thinking the exact same thing that I was.
Roy Price, the head of Amazon Studios (No, nor have I) has resigned due to sexual harassment allegations. His finacé has called off their wedding. Her dress was designed by......Georgina Chapman. Oh the irony!!
There's an element of this story which is being treated as "peculiarly Hollywood." It isn't. This kind of harassment exists in all walks of life in all professions. This should be common knowledge by now. Here is a good list of things men can do to change their behavior and the world around them. I'm sure at least a couple apply to you, I know they do to me. Bolding the ones I think are applicable to me (these are to varying degrees, some, like talking over women, are blatant, others, like involving women in creative projects and giving them equal credit, or pay women the same, are things I've tried/try to do but feel I could do better). https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2017/oct/16/a-simple-list-of-things-men-can-do-to-change-our-work-and-life-culture
-Talk to your friend who is “kind of a creep” at work. -Don’t talk over women. -If you are asked to be on a panel/team and see that it’s all men, say something. Maybe even refuse the spot! -When you see another guy talk over a woman, say: “Hey, she was saying something.” -Learn to read a fucking room. -Don’t call women “crazy” in a professional setting. -Don’t use your “feminism” as a way to get women to trust you. Show us in your day-to-day life, not in your self-congratulatory social media. -Don’t touch women you don’t know, and honestly, ask yourself why you feel the need to touch women in general. -Do you feel that any woman on earth owes you something? She doesn’t. Even if you’re like, “Hm, but what about basic respect?” ask yourself if you’ve shown her the same. -Don’t send pictures of your penis unless she just asked for them. -If a woman says no to a date, don’t ask her again. -If a woman has not given an enthusiastic “yes” to sex, back the hell off. -If a woman is really drunk, she cannot consent to you and she also cannot consent to your buddy who seems to be trying something. Your buddy is your responsibility, so say something and intervene. -If you do the right thing, don’t expect praise or payment or a pat on the back or even a “thank you from that woman”. Congratulations, you were baseline decent. -Involve women in your creative projects, then let them have equal part in them. -Don’t make misogynistic jokes. -Don’t expect women to be “nice” or “cute” and don’t get upset when they aren’t those things. -Don’t make assumptions about a woman’s intelligence, capabilities or desires based on how she dresses. -Pay women as much as you pay men. -If a woman tells you that you fucked up, and you feel like shit, don’t put it on that woman to make you feel better. Apologize without qualification and then go away. -Don’t punish women for witnessing your vulnerability. -Don’t get defensive when you get called out. -Don’t need to literally witness a man being horrible in order to believe that he’s horrible. Trust and believe women. -Don’t use your power to get women’s attention/company/sex/etc. -Be aware of your inherent power in situations and use it to protect women, especially via talking to other men. -Stop thinking that because you’re also marginalized or a survivor that you cannot inflict pain or oppress women. -If women’s pain makes you feel pain, don’t prize your pain above hers, or make that pain her problem. -Don’t read a list like this and think that most of these don’t apply to you. (These also apply to how to better treat transgender and non-binary people, who are in more danger than cis women).
Nick Ferrari on LBC was talking about this topic this morning.
A bloke texted in stating something like "I think the media have totally underestimated just how uninteresting this story is to single white middle aged, middle class men"
I almost crashed the car in glee that someone had texted in thinking the exact same thing that I was.
There's an element of this story which is being treated as "peculiarly Hollywood." It isn't. This kind of harassment exists in all walks of life in all professions. This should be common knowledge by now. Here is a good list of things men can do to change their behavior and the world around them. I'm sure at least a couple apply to you, I know they do to me. Bolding the ones I think are applicable to me (these are to varying degrees, some, like talking over women, are blatant, others, like involving women in creative projects and giving them equal credit, or pay women the same, are things I've tried/try to do but feel I could do better). https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2017/oct/16/a-simple-list-of-things-men-can-do-to-change-our-work-and-life-culture
-Talk to your friend who is “kind of a creep” at work. -Don’t talk over women. -If you are asked to be on a panel/team and see that it’s all men, say something. Maybe even refuse the spot! -When you see another guy talk over a woman, say: “Hey, she was saying something.” -Learn to read a fucking room. -Don’t call women “crazy” in a professional setting. -Don’t use your “feminism” as a way to get women to trust you. Show us in your day-to-day life, not in your self-congratulatory social media. -Don’t touch women you don’t know, and honestly, ask yourself why you feel the need to touch women in general. -Do you feel that any woman on earth owes you something? She doesn’t. Even if you’re like, “Hm, but what about basic respect?” ask yourself if you’ve shown her the same. -Don’t send pictures of your penis unless she just asked for them. -If a woman says no to a date, don’t ask her again. -If a woman has not given an enthusiastic “yes” to sex, back the hell off. -If a woman is really drunk, she cannot consent to you and she also cannot consent to your buddy who seems to be trying something. Your buddy is your responsibility, so say something and intervene. -If you do the right thing, don’t expect praise or payment or a pat on the back or even a “thank you from that woman”. Congratulations, you were baseline decent. -Involve women in your creative projects, then let them have equal part in them. -Don’t make misogynistic jokes. -Don’t expect women to be “nice” or “cute” and don’t get upset when they aren’t those things. -Don’t make assumptions about a woman’s intelligence, capabilities or desires based on how she dresses. -Pay women as much as you pay men. -If a woman tells you that you fucked up, and you feel like shit, don’t put it on that woman to make you feel better. Apologize without qualification and then go away. -Don’t punish women for witnessing your vulnerability. -Don’t get defensive when you get called out. -Don’t need to literally witness a man being horrible in order to believe that he’s horrible. Trust and believe women. -Don’t use your power to get women’s attention/company/sex/etc. -Be aware of your inherent power in situations and use it to protect women, especially via talking to other men. -Stop thinking that because you’re also marginalized or a survivor that you cannot inflict pain or oppress women. -If women’s pain makes you feel pain, don’t prize your pain above hers, or make that pain her problem. -Don’t read a list like this and think that most of these don’t apply to you. (These also apply to how to better treat transgender and non-binary people, who are in more danger than cis women).
There's an element of this story which is being treated as "peculiarly Hollywood." It isn't. This kind of harassment exists in all walks of life in all professions. This should be common knowledge by now. Here is a good list of things men can do to change their behavior and the world around them. I'm sure at least a couple apply to you, I know they do to me. Bolding the ones I think are applicable to me (these are to varying degrees, some, like talking over women, are blatant, others, like involving women in creative projects and giving them equal credit, or pay women the same, are things I've tried/try to do but feel I could do better). https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2017/oct/16/a-simple-list-of-things-men-can-do-to-change-our-work-and-life-culture
-Talk to your friend who is “kind of a creep” at work. -Don’t talk over women. -If you are asked to be on a panel/team and see that it’s all men, say something. Maybe even refuse the spot! -When you see another guy talk over a woman, say: “Hey, she was saying something.” -Learn to read a fucking room. -Don’t call women “crazy” in a professional setting. -Don’t use your “feminism” as a way to get women to trust you. Show us in your day-to-day life, not in your self-congratulatory social media. -Don’t touch women you don’t know, and honestly, ask yourself why you feel the need to touch women in general. -Do you feel that any woman on earth owes you something? She doesn’t. Even if you’re like, “Hm, but what about basic respect?” ask yourself if you’ve shown her the same. -Don’t send pictures of your penis unless she just asked for them. -If a woman says no to a date, don’t ask her again. -If a woman has not given an enthusiastic “yes” to sex, back the hell off. -If a woman is really drunk, she cannot consent to you and she also cannot consent to your buddy who seems to be trying something. Your buddy is your responsibility, so say something and intervene. -If you do the right thing, don’t expect praise or payment or a pat on the back or even a “thank you from that woman”. Congratulations, you were baseline decent. -Involve women in your creative projects, then let them have equal part in them. -Don’t make misogynistic jokes. -Don’t expect women to be “nice” or “cute” and don’t get upset when they aren’t those things. -Don’t make assumptions about a woman’s intelligence, capabilities or desires based on how she dresses. -Pay women as much as you pay men. -If a woman tells you that you fucked up, and you feel like shit, don’t put it on that woman to make you feel better. Apologize without qualification and then go away. -Don’t punish women for witnessing your vulnerability. -Don’t get defensive when you get called out. -Don’t need to literally witness a man being horrible in order to believe that he’s horrible. Trust and believe women. -Don’t use your power to get women’s attention/company/sex/etc. -Be aware of your inherent power in situations and use it to protect women, especially via talking to other men. -Stop thinking that because you’re also marginalized or a survivor that you cannot inflict pain or oppress women. -If women’s pain makes you feel pain, don’t prize your pain above hers, or make that pain her problem. -Don’t read a list like this and think that most of these don’t apply to you. (These also apply to how to better treat transgender and non-binary people, who are in more danger than cis women).
Thankyou SD I now feel nicely patronized.
As would many women reading some of those points, I'd imagine.
There's an element of this story which is being treated as "peculiarly Hollywood." It isn't. This kind of harassment exists in all walks of life in all professions. This should be common knowledge by now. Here is a good list of things men can do to change their behavior and the world around them. I'm sure at least a couple apply to you, I know they do to me. Bolding the ones I think are applicable to me (these are to varying degrees, some, like talking over women, are blatant, others, like involving women in creative projects and giving them equal credit, or pay women the same, are things I've tried/try to do but feel I could do better). https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2017/oct/16/a-simple-list-of-things-men-can-do-to-change-our-work-and-life-culture
-Talk to your friend who is “kind of a creep” at work. -Don’t talk over women. -If you are asked to be on a panel/team and see that it’s all men, say something. Maybe even refuse the spot! -When you see another guy talk over a woman, say: “Hey, she was saying something.” -Learn to read a fucking room. -Don’t call women “crazy” in a professional setting. -Don’t use your “feminism” as a way to get women to trust you. Show us in your day-to-day life, not in your self-congratulatory social media. -Don’t touch women you don’t know, and honestly, ask yourself why you feel the need to touch women in general. -Do you feel that any woman on earth owes you something? She doesn’t. Even if you’re like, “Hm, but what about basic respect?” ask yourself if you’ve shown her the same. -Don’t send pictures of your penis unless she just asked for them. -If a woman says no to a date, don’t ask her again. -If a woman has not given an enthusiastic “yes” to sex, back the hell off. -If a woman is really drunk, she cannot consent to you and she also cannot consent to your buddy who seems to be trying something. Your buddy is your responsibility, so say something and intervene. -If you do the right thing, don’t expect praise or payment or a pat on the back or even a “thank you from that woman”. Congratulations, you were baseline decent. -Involve women in your creative projects, then let them have equal part in them. -Don’t make misogynistic jokes. -Don’t expect women to be “nice” or “cute” and don’t get upset when they aren’t those things. -Don’t make assumptions about a woman’s intelligence, capabilities or desires based on how she dresses. -Pay women as much as you pay men. -If a woman tells you that you fucked up, and you feel like shit, don’t put it on that woman to make you feel better. Apologize without qualification and then go away. -Don’t punish women for witnessing your vulnerability. -Don’t get defensive when you get called out. -Don’t need to literally witness a man being horrible in order to believe that he’s horrible. Trust and believe women. -Don’t use your power to get women’s attention/company/sex/etc. -Be aware of your inherent power in situations and use it to protect women, especially via talking to other men. -Stop thinking that because you’re also marginalized or a survivor that you cannot inflict pain or oppress women. -If women’s pain makes you feel pain, don’t prize your pain above hers, or make that pain her problem. -Don’t read a list like this and think that most of these don’t apply to you. (These also apply to how to better treat transgender and non-binary people, who are in more danger than cis women).
Don't wipe your cock on the curtains after a session.
There's an element of this story which is being treated as "peculiarly Hollywood." It isn't. This kind of harassment exists in all walks of life in all professions. This should be common knowledge by now. Here is a good list of things men can do to change their behavior and the world around them. I'm sure at least a couple apply to you, I know they do to me. Bolding the ones I think are applicable to me (these are to varying degrees, some, like talking over women, are blatant, others, like involving women in creative projects and giving them equal credit, or pay women the same, are things I've tried/try to do but feel I could do better). https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2017/oct/16/a-simple-list-of-things-men-can-do-to-change-our-work-and-life-culture
-Talk to your friend who is “kind of a creep” at work. -Don’t talk over women. -If you are asked to be on a panel/team and see that it’s all men, say something. Maybe even refuse the spot! -When you see another guy talk over a woman, say: “Hey, she was saying something.” -Learn to read a fucking room. -Don’t call women “crazy” in a professional setting. -Don’t use your “feminism” as a way to get women to trust you. Show us in your day-to-day life, not in your self-congratulatory social media. -Don’t touch women you don’t know, and honestly, ask yourself why you feel the need to touch women in general. -Do you feel that any woman on earth owes you something? She doesn’t. Even if you’re like, “Hm, but what about basic respect?” ask yourself if you’ve shown her the same. -Don’t send pictures of your penis unless she just asked for them. -If a woman says no to a date, don’t ask her again. -If a woman has not given an enthusiastic “yes” to sex, back the hell off. -If a woman is really drunk, she cannot consent to you and she also cannot consent to your buddy who seems to be trying something. Your buddy is your responsibility, so say something and intervene. -If you do the right thing, don’t expect praise or payment or a pat on the back or even a “thank you from that woman”. Congratulations, you were baseline decent. -Involve women in your creative projects, then let them have equal part in them. -Don’t make misogynistic jokes. -Don’t expect women to be “nice” or “cute” and don’t get upset when they aren’t those things. -Don’t make assumptions about a woman’s intelligence, capabilities or desires based on how she dresses. -Pay women as much as you pay men. -If a woman tells you that you fucked up, and you feel like shit, don’t put it on that woman to make you feel better. Apologize without qualification and then go away. -Don’t punish women for witnessing your vulnerability. -Don’t get defensive when you get called out. -Don’t need to literally witness a man being horrible in order to believe that he’s horrible. Trust and believe women. -Don’t use your power to get women’s attention/company/sex/etc. -Be aware of your inherent power in situations and use it to protect women, especially via talking to other men. -Stop thinking that because you’re also marginalized or a survivor that you cannot inflict pain or oppress women. -If women’s pain makes you feel pain, don’t prize your pain above hers, or make that pain her problem. -Don’t read a list like this and think that most of these don’t apply to you. (These also apply to how to better treat transgender and non-binary people, who are in more danger than cis women).
Don't open doors for lesbians. If you're not sure if she's a lesbian always ask. When speaking to women use simple words and always explain things slowly...
Harvey Weinstein is a vile creature that is also really quite an embarrassment of a human being. Underneath the power and money, which sounds attractive and might lure people into a false sense of ambition and security, is just a very low class person. A complete loser. He himself was maybe the best actor in Hollywood.
I hope some good comes out of this though.
There are similarities between Weinstein and Trump.
It is my opinion, based on instinct and behaviour observation, that Donald Trump has mostly likely done something unlawful and or made rather overly aggressive unwanted advances on women in the past.
Of corse, the press stories leading up to the election, certainly back up that suspicion.
He has probably paid some women off.
If there are victims of sexual abuse from the power and money loving trump, then I hope this story gives such victims the courage to come forward and put more direct focus and put more of a spotlight of suspicion on the presidents head.
It will hopefully produce pressure until he crumbles and his persona of relentless "I'm great" stops.
There's an element of this story which is being treated as "peculiarly Hollywood." It isn't. This kind of harassment exists in all walks of life in all professions. This should be common knowledge by now. Here is a good list of things men can do to change their behavior and the world around them. I'm sure at least a couple apply to you, I know they do to me. Bolding the ones I think are applicable to me (these are to varying degrees, some, like talking over women, are blatant, others, like involving women in creative projects and giving them equal credit, or pay women the same, are things I've tried/try to do but feel I could do better). https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2017/oct/16/a-simple-list-of-things-men-can-do-to-change-our-work-and-life-culture
-Talk to your friend who is “kind of a creep” at work. -Don’t talk over women. -If you are asked to be on a panel/team and see that it’s all men, say something. Maybe even refuse the spot! -When you see another guy talk over a woman, say: “Hey, she was saying something.” -Learn to read a fucking room. -Don’t call women “crazy” in a professional setting. -Don’t use your “feminism” as a way to get women to trust you. Show us in your day-to-day life, not in your self-congratulatory social media. -Don’t touch women you don’t know, and honestly, ask yourself why you feel the need to touch women in general. -Do you feel that any woman on earth owes you something? She doesn’t. Even if you’re like, “Hm, but what about basic respect?” ask yourself if you’ve shown her the same. -Don’t send pictures of your penis unless she just asked for them. -If a woman says no to a date, don’t ask her again. -If a woman has not given an enthusiastic “yes” to sex, back the hell off. -If a woman is really drunk, she cannot consent to you and she also cannot consent to your buddy who seems to be trying something. Your buddy is your responsibility, so say something and intervene. -If you do the right thing, don’t expect praise or payment or a pat on the back or even a “thank you from that woman”. Congratulations, you were baseline decent. -Involve women in your creative projects, then let them have equal part in them. -Don’t make misogynistic jokes. -Don’t expect women to be “nice” or “cute” and don’t get upset when they aren’t those things. -Don’t make assumptions about a woman’s intelligence, capabilities or desires based on how she dresses. -Pay women as much as you pay men. -If a woman tells you that you fucked up, and you feel like shit, don’t put it on that woman to make you feel better. Apologize without qualification and then go away. -Don’t punish women for witnessing your vulnerability. -Don’t get defensive when you get called out. -Don’t need to literally witness a man being horrible in order to believe that he’s horrible. Trust and believe women. -Don’t use your power to get women’s attention/company/sex/etc. -Be aware of your inherent power in situations and use it to protect women, especially via talking to other men. -Stop thinking that because you’re also marginalized or a survivor that you cannot inflict pain or oppress women. -If women’s pain makes you feel pain, don’t prize your pain above hers, or make that pain her problem. -Don’t read a list like this and think that most of these don’t apply to you. (These also apply to how to better treat transgender and non-binary people, who are in more danger than cis women).
-If you are asked to be on a panel/team and see that it’s all men, say something. Maybe even refuse the spot!
id definitely refuse on the spot, sounds like a right cockfest.
There's an element of this story which is being treated as "peculiarly Hollywood." It isn't. This kind of harassment exists in all walks of life in all professions. This should be common knowledge by now. Here is a good list of things men can do to change their behavior and the world around them. I'm sure at least a couple apply to you, I know they do to me. Bolding the ones I think are applicable to me (these are to varying degrees, some, like talking over women, are blatant, others, like involving women in creative projects and giving them equal credit, or pay women the same, are things I've tried/try to do but feel I could do better). https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2017/oct/16/a-simple-list-of-things-men-can-do-to-change-our-work-and-life-culture
-Talk to your friend who is “kind of a creep” at work. -Don’t talk over women. -If you are asked to be on a panel/team and see that it’s all men, say something. Maybe even refuse the spot! -When you see another guy talk over a woman, say: “Hey, she was saying something.” -Learn to read a fucking room. -Don’t call women “crazy” in a professional setting. -Don’t use your “feminism” as a way to get women to trust you. Show us in your day-to-day life, not in your self-congratulatory social media. -Don’t touch women you don’t know, and honestly, ask yourself why you feel the need to touch women in general. -Do you feel that any woman on earth owes you something? She doesn’t. Even if you’re like, “Hm, but what about basic respect?” ask yourself if you’ve shown her the same. -Don’t send pictures of your penis unless she just asked for them. -If a woman says no to a date, don’t ask her again. -If a woman has not given an enthusiastic “yes” to sex, back the hell off. -If a woman is really drunk, she cannot consent to you and she also cannot consent to your buddy who seems to be trying something. Your buddy is your responsibility, so say something and intervene. -If you do the right thing, don’t expect praise or payment or a pat on the back or even a “thank you from that woman”. Congratulations, you were baseline decent. -Involve women in your creative projects, then let them have equal part in them. -Don’t make misogynistic jokes. -Don’t expect women to be “nice” or “cute” and don’t get upset when they aren’t those things. -Don’t make assumptions about a woman’s intelligence, capabilities or desires based on how she dresses. -Pay women as much as you pay men. -If a woman tells you that you fucked up, and you feel like shit, don’t put it on that woman to make you feel better. Apologize without qualification and then go away. -Don’t punish women for witnessing your vulnerability. -Don’t get defensive when you get called out. -Don’t need to literally witness a man being horrible in order to believe that he’s horrible. Trust and believe women. -Don’t use your power to get women’s attention/company/sex/etc. -Be aware of your inherent power in situations and use it to protect women, especially via talking to other men. -Stop thinking that because you’re also marginalized or a survivor that you cannot inflict pain or oppress women. -If women’s pain makes you feel pain, don’t prize your pain above hers, or make that pain her problem. -Don’t read a list like this and think that most of these don’t apply to you. (These also apply to how to better treat transgender and non-binary people, who are in more danger than cis women).
I'm not going to comment on all of these as there are way too many possibilities for it to end up with someone taking a pop at me but is it not rude to talk over anyone? I mean sure, let's not talk over women, but does that mean it's ok to talk over men? I am a little obsessed with good manners, particularly with, what I see as, my responsibility to teach them to my son but he would never start talking if someone else was already doing so!
The list seems a little contradictory. It seems to be suggesting that women should be treated as equal (which I, clearly, agree with) yet it also seems to be 'insisting' that they be excluded, or protected, from many of the things that men have to deal with. Either it's ok, for example, to call someone crazy in a professional setting or it is not. If it's ok to call a man crazy but not a woman then they are not being treated as equal are they? I'm also a little uncomfortable with the idea that men should be tasked with protected women from the other men in their office. Sure don't send naked photos without being asked to do so but do we, really, all need to be on the look out to use our 'inherent power' to protect them from other men? That looks, a little to me, like we are setting out to undermine women by assuming that they cannot stand up for themselves.
There's an element of this story which is being treated as "peculiarly Hollywood." It isn't. This kind of harassment exists in all walks of life in all professions. This should be common knowledge by now. Here is a good list of things men can do to change their behavior and the world around them. I'm sure at least a couple apply to you, I know they do to me. Bolding the ones I think are applicable to me (these are to varying degrees, some, like talking over women, are blatant, others, like involving women in creative projects and giving them equal credit, or pay women the same, are things I've tried/try to do but feel I could do better). https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2017/oct/16/a-simple-list-of-things-men-can-do-to-change-our-work-and-life-culture
-Talk to your friend who is “kind of a creep” at work. -Don’t talk over women. -If you are asked to be on a panel/team and see that it’s all men, say something. Maybe even refuse the spot! -When you see another guy talk over a woman, say: “Hey, she was saying something.” -Learn to read a fucking room. -Don’t call women “crazy” in a professional setting. -Don’t use your “feminism” as a way to get women to trust you. Show us in your day-to-day life, not in your self-congratulatory social media. -Don’t touch women you don’t know, and honestly, ask yourself why you feel the need to touch women in general. -Do you feel that any woman on earth owes you something? She doesn’t. Even if you’re like, “Hm, but what about basic respect?” ask yourself if you’ve shown her the same. -Don’t send pictures of your penis unless she just asked for them. -If a woman says no to a date, don’t ask her again. -If a woman has not given an enthusiastic “yes” to sex, back the hell off. -If a woman is really drunk, she cannot consent to you and she also cannot consent to your buddy who seems to be trying something. Your buddy is your responsibility, so say something and intervene. -If you do the right thing, don’t expect praise or payment or a pat on the back or even a “thank you from that woman”. Congratulations, you were baseline decent. -Involve women in your creative projects, then let them have equal part in them. -Don’t make misogynistic jokes. -Don’t expect women to be “nice” or “cute” and don’t get upset when they aren’t those things. -Don’t make assumptions about a woman’s intelligence, capabilities or desires based on how she dresses. -Pay women as much as you pay men. -If a woman tells you that you fucked up, and you feel like shit, don’t put it on that woman to make you feel better. Apologize without qualification and then go away. -Don’t punish women for witnessing your vulnerability. -Don’t get defensive when you get called out. -Don’t need to literally witness a man being horrible in order to believe that he’s horrible. Trust and believe women. -Don’t use your power to get women’s attention/company/sex/etc. -Be aware of your inherent power in situations and use it to protect women, especially via talking to other men. -Stop thinking that because you’re also marginalized or a survivor that you cannot inflict pain or oppress women. -If women’s pain makes you feel pain, don’t prize your pain above hers, or make that pain her problem. -Don’t read a list like this and think that most of these don’t apply to you. (These also apply to how to better treat transgender and non-binary people, who are in more danger than cis women).
-If you are asked to be on a panel/team and see that it’s all men, say something. Maybe even refuse the spot!
id definitely refuse on the spot, sounds like a right cockfest.
There's an element of this story which is being treated as "peculiarly Hollywood." It isn't. This kind of harassment exists in all walks of life in all professions. This should be common knowledge by now. Here is a good list of things men can do to change their behavior and the world around them. I'm sure at least a couple apply to you, I know they do to me. Bolding the ones I think are applicable to me (these are to varying degrees, some, like talking over women, are blatant, others, like involving women in creative projects and giving them equal credit, or pay women the same, are things I've tried/try to do but feel I could do better). https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2017/oct/16/a-simple-list-of-things-men-can-do-to-change-our-work-and-life-culture
-Talk to your friend who is “kind of a creep” at work. -Don’t talk over women. -If you are asked to be on a panel/team and see that it’s all men, say something. Maybe even refuse the spot! -When you see another guy talk over a woman, say: “Hey, she was saying something.” -Learn to read a fucking room. -Don’t call women “crazy” in a professional setting. -Don’t use your “feminism” as a way to get women to trust you. Show us in your day-to-day life, not in your self-congratulatory social media. -Don’t touch women you don’t know, and honestly, ask yourself why you feel the need to touch women in general. -Do you feel that any woman on earth owes you something? She doesn’t. Even if you’re like, “Hm, but what about basic respect?” ask yourself if you’ve shown her the same. -Don’t send pictures of your penis unless she just asked for them. -If a woman says no to a date, don’t ask her again. -If a woman has not given an enthusiastic “yes” to sex, back the hell off. -If a woman is really drunk, she cannot consent to you and she also cannot consent to your buddy who seems to be trying something. Your buddy is your responsibility, so say something and intervene. -If you do the right thing, don’t expect praise or payment or a pat on the back or even a “thank you from that woman”. Congratulations, you were baseline decent. -Involve women in your creative projects, then let them have equal part in them. -Don’t make misogynistic jokes. -Don’t expect women to be “nice” or “cute” and don’t get upset when they aren’t those things. -Don’t make assumptions about a woman’s intelligence, capabilities or desires based on how she dresses. -Pay women as much as you pay men. -If a woman tells you that you fucked up, and you feel like shit, don’t put it on that woman to make you feel better. Apologize without qualification and then go away. -Don’t punish women for witnessing your vulnerability. -Don’t get defensive when you get called out. -Don’t need to literally witness a man being horrible in order to believe that he’s horrible. Trust and believe women. -Don’t use your power to get women’s attention/company/sex/etc. -Be aware of your inherent power in situations and use it to protect women, especially via talking to other men. -Stop thinking that because you’re also marginalized or a survivor that you cannot inflict pain or oppress women. -If women’s pain makes you feel pain, don’t prize your pain above hers, or make that pain her problem. -Don’t read a list like this and think that most of these don’t apply to you. (These also apply to how to better treat transgender and non-binary people, who are in more danger than cis women).
I'm not going to comment on all of these as there are way too many possibilities for it to end up with someone taking a pop at me but is it not rude to talk over anyone? I mean sure, let's not talk over women, but does that mean it's ok to talk over men? I am a little obsessed with good manners, particularly with, what I see as, my responsibility to teach them to my son but he would never start talking if someone else was already doing so!
The list seems a little contradictory. It seems to be suggesting that women should be treated as equal (which I, clearly, agree with) yet it also seems to be 'insisting' that they be excluded, or protected, from many of the things that men have to deal with. Either it's ok, for example, to call someone crazy in a professional setting or it is not. If it's ok to call a man crazy but not a woman then they are not being treated as equal are they? I'm also a little uncomfortable with the idea that men should be tasked with protected women from the other men in their office. Sure don't send naked photos without being asked to do so but do we, really, all need to be on the look out to use our 'inherent power' to protect them from other men? That looks, a little to me, like we are setting out to undermine women by assuming that they cannot stand up for themselves.
Which is what a lot of anti feminist women are against. But I'm a 40 year old privileged white man, so what the fuck do I know.
From the list - The one that mentions men not speaking over women, look up feminist Kate Smurthwaite and see how she demands impeccable silence when she's having her say in a debate, but then totally drowns out anyone who disagrees with her views.
It feel like we're getting away from the subject of a predatory sex case though? Again only in the opinion of a 40 privileged white bloke, so I stand to be corrected
There's an element of this story which is being treated as "peculiarly Hollywood." It isn't. This kind of harassment exists in all walks of life in all professions. This should be common knowledge by now. Here is a good list of things men can do to change their behavior and the world around them. I'm sure at least a couple apply to you, I know they do to me. Bolding the ones I think are applicable to me (these are to varying degrees, some, like talking over women, are blatant, others, like involving women in creative projects and giving them equal credit, or pay women the same, are things I've tried/try to do but feel I could do better). https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2017/oct/16/a-simple-list-of-things-men-can-do-to-change-our-work-and-life-culture
-Talk to your friend who is “kind of a creep” at work. -Don’t talk over women. -If you are asked to be on a panel/team and see that it’s all men, say something. Maybe even refuse the spot! -When you see another guy talk over a woman, say: “Hey, she was saying something.” -Learn to read a fucking room. -Don’t call women “crazy” in a professional setting. -Don’t use your “feminism” as a way to get women to trust you. Show us in your day-to-day life, not in your self-congratulatory social media. -Don’t touch women you don’t know, and honestly, ask yourself why you feel the need to touch women in general. -Do you feel that any woman on earth owes you something? She doesn’t. Even if you’re like, “Hm, but what about basic respect?” ask yourself if you’ve shown her the same. -Don’t send pictures of your penis unless she just asked for them. -If a woman says no to a date, don’t ask her again. -If a woman has not given an enthusiastic “yes” to sex, back the hell off. -If a woman is really drunk, she cannot consent to you and she also cannot consent to your buddy who seems to be trying something. Your buddy is your responsibility, so say something and intervene. -If you do the right thing, don’t expect praise or payment or a pat on the back or even a “thank you from that woman”. Congratulations, you were baseline decent. -Involve women in your creative projects, then let them have equal part in them. -Don’t make misogynistic jokes. -Don’t expect women to be “nice” or “cute” and don’t get upset when they aren’t those things. -Don’t make assumptions about a woman’s intelligence, capabilities or desires based on how she dresses. -Pay women as much as you pay men. -If a woman tells you that you fucked up, and you feel like shit, don’t put it on that woman to make you feel better. Apologize without qualification and then go away. -Don’t punish women for witnessing your vulnerability. -Don’t get defensive when you get called out. -Don’t need to literally witness a man being horrible in order to believe that he’s horrible. Trust and believe women. -Don’t use your power to get women’s attention/company/sex/etc. -Be aware of your inherent power in situations and use it to protect women, especially via talking to other men. -Stop thinking that because you’re also marginalized or a survivor that you cannot inflict pain or oppress women. -If women’s pain makes you feel pain, don’t prize your pain above hers, or make that pain her problem. -Don’t read a list like this and think that most of these don’t apply to you. (These also apply to how to better treat transgender and non-binary people, who are in more danger than cis women).
I've had a good look at this and a done some soul searching. I can only see one point on here where I need to change. I've underlined it.
There's an element of this story which is being treated as "peculiarly Hollywood." It isn't. This kind of harassment exists in all walks of life in all professions. This should be common knowledge by now. Here is a good list of things men can do to change their behavior and the world around them. I'm sure at least a couple apply to you, I know they do to me. Bolding the ones I think are applicable to me (these are to varying degrees, some, like talking over women, are blatant, others, like involving women in creative projects and giving them equal credit, or pay women the same, are things I've tried/try to do but feel I could do better). https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2017/oct/16/a-simple-list-of-things-men-can-do-to-change-our-work-and-life-culture
-Talk to your friend who is “kind of a creep” at work. -Don’t talk over women. -If you are asked to be on a panel/team and see that it’s all men, say something. Maybe even refuse the spot! -When you see another guy talk over a woman, say: “Hey, she was saying something.” -Learn to read a fucking room. -Don’t call women “crazy” in a professional setting. -Don’t use your “feminism” as a way to get women to trust you. Show us in your day-to-day life, not in your self-congratulatory social media. -Don’t touch women you don’t know, and honestly, ask yourself why you feel the need to touch women in general. -Do you feel that any woman on earth owes you something? She doesn’t. Even if you’re like, “Hm, but what about basic respect?” ask yourself if you’ve shown her the same. -Don’t send pictures of your penis unless she just asked for them. -If a woman says no to a date, don’t ask her again. -If a woman has not given an enthusiastic “yes” to sex, back the hell off. -If a woman is really drunk, she cannot consent to you and she also cannot consent to your buddy who seems to be trying something. Your buddy is your responsibility, so say something and intervene. -If you do the right thing, don’t expect praise or payment or a pat on the back or even a “thank you from that woman”. Congratulations, you were baseline decent. -Involve women in your creative projects, then let them have equal part in them. -Don’t make misogynistic jokes. -Don’t expect women to be “nice” or “cute” and don’t get upset when they aren’t those things. -Don’t make assumptions about a woman’s intelligence, capabilities or desires based on how she dresses. -Pay women as much as you pay men. -If a woman tells you that you fucked up, and you feel like shit, don’t put it on that woman to make you feel better. Apologize without qualification and then go away. -Don’t punish women for witnessing your vulnerability. -Don’t get defensive when you get called out. -Don’t need to literally witness a man being horrible in order to believe that he’s horrible. Trust and believe women. -Don’t use your power to get women’s attention/company/sex/etc. -Be aware of your inherent power in situations and use it to protect women, especially via talking to other men. -Stop thinking that because you’re also marginalized or a survivor that you cannot inflict pain or oppress women. -If women’s pain makes you feel pain, don’t prize your pain above hers, or make that pain her problem. -Don’t read a list like this and think that most of these don’t apply to you. (These also apply to how to better treat transgender and non-binary people, who are in more danger than cis women).
I'm not going to comment on all of these as there are way too many possibilities for it to end up with someone taking a pop at me but is it not rude to talk over anyone? I mean sure, let's not talk over women, but does that mean it's ok to talk over men? I am a little obsessed with good manners, particularly with, what I see as, my responsibility to teach them to my son but he would never start talking if someone else was already doing so!
The list seems a little contradictory. It seems to be suggesting that women should be treated as equal (which I, clearly, agree with) yet it also seems to be 'insisting' that they be excluded, or protected, from many of the things that men have to deal with. Either it's ok, for example, to call someone crazy in a professional setting or it is not. If it's ok to call a man crazy but not a woman then they are not being treated as equal are they? I'm also a little uncomfortable with the idea that men should be tasked with protected women from the other men in their office. Sure don't send naked photos without being asked to do so but do we, really, all need to be on the look out to use our 'inherent power' to protect them from other men? That looks, a little to me, like we are setting out to undermine women by assuming that they cannot stand up for themselves.
Which is what a lot of anti feminist women are against. But I'm a 40 year old privileged white man, so what the fuck do I know.
From the list - The one that mentions men not speaking over women, look up feminist Kate Smurthwaite and see how she demands impeccable silence when she's having her say in a debate, but then totally drowns out anyone who disagrees with her views.
It feel like we're getting away from the subject of a predatory sex case though? Again only in the opinion of a 40 privileged white bloke, so I stand to be corrected
There's an element of this story which is being treated as "peculiarly Hollywood." It isn't. This kind of harassment exists in all walks of life in all professions. This should be common knowledge by now. Here is a good list of things men can do to change their behavior and the world around them. I'm sure at least a couple apply to you, I know they do to me. Bolding the ones I think are applicable to me (these are to varying degrees, some, like talking over women, are blatant, others, like involving women in creative projects and giving them equal credit, or pay women the same, are things I've tried/try to do but feel I could do better). https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2017/oct/16/a-simple-list-of-things-men-can-do-to-change-our-work-and-life-culture
-Talk to your friend who is “kind of a creep” at work. -Don’t talk over women. -If you are asked to be on a panel/team and see that it’s all men, say something. Maybe even refuse the spot! -When you see another guy talk over a woman, say: “Hey, she was saying something.” -Learn to read a fucking room. -Don’t call women “crazy” in a professional setting. -Don’t use your “feminism” as a way to get women to trust you. Show us in your day-to-day life, not in your self-congratulatory social media. -Don’t touch women you don’t know, and honestly, ask yourself why you feel the need to touch women in general. -Do you feel that any woman on earth owes you something? She doesn’t. Even if you’re like, “Hm, but what about basic respect?” ask yourself if you’ve shown her the same. -Don’t send pictures of your penis unless she just asked for them. -If a woman says no to a date, don’t ask her again. -If a woman has not given an enthusiastic “yes” to sex, back the hell off. -If a woman is really drunk, she cannot consent to you and she also cannot consent to your buddy who seems to be trying something. Your buddy is your responsibility, so say something and intervene. -If you do the right thing, don’t expect praise or payment or a pat on the back or even a “thank you from that woman”. Congratulations, you were baseline decent. -Involve women in your creative projects, then let them have equal part in them. -Don’t make misogynistic jokes. -Don’t expect women to be “nice” or “cute” and don’t get upset when they aren’t those things. -Don’t make assumptions about a woman’s intelligence, capabilities or desires based on how she dresses. -Pay women as much as you pay men. -If a woman tells you that you fucked up, and you feel like shit, don’t put it on that woman to make you feel better. Apologize without qualification and then go away. -Don’t punish women for witnessing your vulnerability. -Don’t get defensive when you get called out. -Don’t need to literally witness a man being horrible in order to believe that he’s horrible. Trust and believe women. -Don’t use your power to get women’s attention/company/sex/etc. -Be aware of your inherent power in situations and use it to protect women, especially via talking to other men. -Stop thinking that because you’re also marginalized or a survivor that you cannot inflict pain or oppress women. -If women’s pain makes you feel pain, don’t prize your pain above hers, or make that pain her problem. -Don’t read a list like this and think that most of these don’t apply to you. (These also apply to how to better treat transgender and non-binary people, who are in more danger than cis women).
No problem with this whatsoever on a like for like basis . If there are any women out there that would like to stand in this muddy overgrown field I’ve been in all morning pulling around 1000 metres of cable in whilst getting rained on then they deserve the average money I get for it as well. Strangely though I don’t see a massive rush of applicants of the female variety for this.
There's an element of this story which is being treated as "peculiarly Hollywood." It isn't. This kind of harassment exists in all walks of life in all professions. This should be common knowledge by now. Here is a good list of things men can do to change their behavior and the world around them. I'm sure at least a couple apply to you, I know they do to me. Bolding the ones I think are applicable to me (these are to varying degrees, some, like talking over women, are blatant, others, like involving women in creative projects and giving them equal credit, or pay women the same, are things I've tried/try to do but feel I could do better). https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2017/oct/16/a-simple-list-of-things-men-can-do-to-change-our-work-and-life-culture
-Talk to your friend who is “kind of a creep” at work. -Don’t talk over women. -If you are asked to be on a panel/team and see that it’s all men, say something. Maybe even refuse the spot! -When you see another guy talk over a woman, say: “Hey, she was saying something.” -Learn to read a fucking room. -Don’t call women “crazy” in a professional setting. -Don’t use your “feminism” as a way to get women to trust you. Show us in your day-to-day life, not in your self-congratulatory social media. -Don’t touch women you don’t know, and honestly, ask yourself why you feel the need to touch women in general. -Do you feel that any woman on earth owes you something? She doesn’t. Even if you’re like, “Hm, but what about basic respect?” ask yourself if you’ve shown her the same. -Don’t send pictures of your penis unless she just asked for them. -If a woman says no to a date, don’t ask her again. -If a woman has not given an enthusiastic “yes” to sex, back the hell off. -If a woman is really drunk, she cannot consent to you and she also cannot consent to your buddy who seems to be trying something. Your buddy is your responsibility, so say something and intervene. -If you do the right thing, don’t expect praise or payment or a pat on the back or even a “thank you from that woman”. Congratulations, you were baseline decent. -Involve women in your creative projects, then let them have equal part in them. -Don’t make misogynistic jokes. -Don’t expect women to be “nice” or “cute” and don’t get upset when they aren’t those things. -Don’t make assumptions about a woman’s intelligence, capabilities or desires based on how she dresses. -Pay women as much as you pay men. -If a woman tells you that you fucked up, and you feel like shit, don’t put it on that woman to make you feel better. Apologize without qualification and then go away. -Don’t punish women for witnessing your vulnerability. -Don’t get defensive when you get called out. -Don’t need to literally witness a man being horrible in order to believe that he’s horrible. Trust and believe women. -Don’t use your power to get women’s attention/company/sex/etc. -Be aware of your inherent power in situations and use it to protect women, especially via talking to other men. -Stop thinking that because you’re also marginalized or a survivor that you cannot inflict pain or oppress women. -If women’s pain makes you feel pain, don’t prize your pain above hers, or make that pain her problem. -Don’t read a list like this and think that most of these don’t apply to you. (These also apply to how to better treat transgender and non-binary people, who are in more danger than cis women).
I'm not going to comment on all of these as there are way too many possibilities for it to end up with someone taking a pop at me but is it not rude to talk over anyone? I mean sure, let's not talk over women, but does that mean it's ok to talk over men? I am a little obsessed with good manners, particularly with, what I see as, my responsibility to teach them to my son but he would never start talking if someone else was already doing so!
The list seems a little contradictory. It seems to be suggesting that women should be treated as equal (which I, clearly, agree with) yet it also seems to be 'insisting' that they be excluded, or protected, from many of the things that men have to deal with. Either it's ok, for example, to call someone crazy in a professional setting or it is not. If it's ok to call a man crazy but not a woman then they are not being treated as equal are they? I'm also a little uncomfortable with the idea that men should be tasked with protected women from the other men in their office. Sure don't send naked photos without being asked to do so but do we, really, all need to be on the look out to use our 'inherent power' to protect them from other men? That looks, a little to me, like we are setting out to undermine women by assuming that they cannot stand up for themselves.
Re: "crazy", research has shown that when it comes to promotions and opportunities, men are judged on what they get done, whereas women are judged on their working style.
The "If they want to be equal they should be treated equal" - totally agree! Have to start somewhere don't we? We don't start somewhere by doing nothing
And we can all make our own decisions on whether that person can/can't stick up for themselves based on the person and the situation
Comments
A bloke texted in stating something like "I think the media have totally underestimated just how uninteresting this story is to ordinary people"
I almost crashed the car in glee that someone had texted in thinking the exact same thing that I was.
What a knob!!
How would it feel if he had treated your Mother/Daughter/Sister/Girlfriend/Wife in the same way?
Would you still find it uninteresting?
Here is a good list of things men can do to change their behavior and the world around them. I'm sure at least a couple apply to you, I know they do to me. Bolding the ones I think are applicable to me (these are to varying degrees, some, like talking over women, are blatant, others, like involving women in creative projects and giving them equal credit, or pay women the same, are things I've tried/try to do but feel I could do better).
https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2017/oct/16/a-simple-list-of-things-men-can-do-to-change-our-work-and-life-culture
-Talk to your friend who is “kind of a creep” at work.
-Don’t talk over women.
-If you are asked to be on a panel/team and see that it’s all men, say something. Maybe even refuse the spot!
-When you see another guy talk over a woman, say: “Hey, she was saying something.”
-Learn to read a fucking room.
-Don’t call women “crazy” in a professional setting.
-Don’t use your “feminism” as a way to get women to trust you. Show us in your day-to-day life, not in your self-congratulatory social media.
-Don’t touch women you don’t know, and honestly, ask yourself why you feel the need to touch women in general.
-Do you feel that any woman on earth owes you something? She doesn’t. Even if you’re like, “Hm, but what about basic respect?” ask yourself if you’ve shown her the same.
-Don’t send pictures of your penis unless she just asked for them.
-If a woman says no to a date, don’t ask her again.
-If a woman has not given an enthusiastic “yes” to sex, back the hell off.
-If a woman is really drunk, she cannot consent to you and she also cannot consent to your buddy who seems to be trying something. Your buddy is your responsibility, so say something and intervene.
-If you do the right thing, don’t expect praise or payment or a pat on the back or even a “thank you from that woman”. Congratulations, you were baseline decent.
-Involve women in your creative projects, then let them have equal part in them.
-Don’t make misogynistic jokes.
-Don’t expect women to be “nice” or “cute” and don’t get upset when they aren’t those things.
-Don’t make assumptions about a woman’s intelligence, capabilities or desires based on how she dresses.
-Pay women as much as you pay men.
-If a woman tells you that you fucked up, and you feel like shit, don’t put it on that woman to make you feel better. Apologize without qualification and then go away.
-Don’t punish women for witnessing your vulnerability.
-Don’t get defensive when you get called out.
-Don’t need to literally witness a man being horrible in order to believe that he’s horrible. Trust and believe women.
-Don’t use your power to get women’s attention/company/sex/etc.
-Be aware of your inherent power in situations and use it to protect women, especially via talking to other men.
-Stop thinking that because you’re also marginalized or a survivor that you cannot inflict pain or oppress women.
-If women’s pain makes you feel pain, don’t prize your pain above hers, or make that pain her problem.
-Don’t read a list like this and think that most of these don’t apply to you.
(These also apply to how to better treat transgender and non-binary people, who are in more danger than cis women).
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/05/22/hollywood-in-the-grip-of-child-abuse-scandal-similar-to-jimmy-sa/
I now feel nicely patronized.
Don't open doors for lesbians.
If you're not sure if she's a lesbian always ask.
When speaking to women use simple words and always explain things slowly...
He himself was maybe the best actor in Hollywood.
I hope some good comes out of this though.
There are similarities between Weinstein and Trump.
It is my opinion, based on instinct and behaviour observation, that Donald Trump has mostly likely done something unlawful and or made rather overly aggressive unwanted advances on women in the past.
Of corse, the press stories leading up to the election, certainly back up that suspicion.
He has probably paid some women off.
If there are victims of sexual abuse from the power and money loving trump, then I hope this story gives such victims the courage to come forward and put more direct focus and put more of a spotlight of suspicion on the presidents head.
It will hopefully produce pressure until he crumbles and his persona of relentless "I'm great" stops.
The f*cker needs to get impeached.
He's awful.
id definitely refuse on the spot, sounds like a right cockfest.
The list seems a little contradictory. It seems to be suggesting that women should be treated as equal (which I, clearly, agree with) yet it also seems to be 'insisting' that they be excluded, or protected, from many of the things that men have to deal with. Either it's ok, for example, to call someone crazy in a professional setting or it is not. If it's ok to call a man crazy but not a woman then they are not being treated as equal are they? I'm also a little uncomfortable with the idea that men should be tasked with protected women from the other men in their office. Sure don't send naked photos without being asked to do so but do we, really, all need to be on the look out to use our 'inherent power' to protect them from other men? That looks, a little to me, like we are setting out to undermine women by assuming that they cannot stand up for themselves.
From the list - The one that mentions men not speaking over women, look up feminist Kate Smurthwaite and see how she demands impeccable silence when she's having her say in a debate, but then totally drowns out anyone who disagrees with her views.
It feel like we're getting away from the subject of a predatory sex case though?
Again only in the opinion of a 40 privileged white bloke, so I stand to be corrected
No problem with this whatsoever on a like for like basis . If there are any women out there that would like to stand in this muddy overgrown field I’ve been in all morning pulling around 1000 metres of cable in whilst getting rained on then they deserve the average money I get for it as well. Strangely though I don’t see a massive rush of applicants of the female variety for this.
If it's to make it equal, then why don't the ladies play five set games. They should only be paid 60% of what the gentlemen get.
The "If they want to be equal they should be treated equal" - totally agree! Have to start somewhere don't we? We don't start somewhere by doing nothing
And we can all make our own decisions on whether that person can/can't stick up for themselves based on the person and the situation