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The influence of the EU on Britain.

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    As far as I’m aware, only “leave” and “remain” were on the ballot.

    This deal would mean we leave the European Union, would it not? Ergo the Tories are delivering the referendum result.

    This is the reality - we were never going to get a deal better than the one we already had. The 52% voted to leave and they’re getting exactly what they voted for.

    That’s a very good point, it seems leave voters had different reasons for ticking that box, but there were only two boxes, leave or remain. Leave won by a small margin and as it stands we are leaving. Still a shambles though.
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    Leave were told they would get all of the good stuff but none of the bad. Cake and eat it was the phrase I believe.

    So the leave voters have been let down, but not by May - Bojo, Farage, Dr Fox et al all lied.
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    Leave voters were essentially promised three things

    - less foreigners
    - More money for public services
    - No hit to the economy and it'll be fine

    None of those are likely, and still you get cranks like Dan Hannan spouting this shit

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    edited November 2018

    Can't be arsed to read over 170 posts since my last visit.

    All I will say is that TM is a,liar & can't be trusted to run a whelk stall. For over 2 years she has repeatedly stated that No Deal is better than a bad deal. Now, when she finally has a deal that is worse than we already have....and pisses all over her "red lines"....all we hear is that it's "this deal or nothing".

    Well.......you can piss off & the the rest of the government with you. There will be so much arm twisting, cajoling & bribing over the next 2 weeks it will make Dubai's winning of hosting the 2022 WC look kosher. I expect her deal to get through Parliament as 300 odd Tory MP's will vote for their own future's & not for what the public voted for.

    Shame on the lot of them.

    Dubai aren't hosting the 2022 World Cup, maybe Dominic Raab put it out there
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    Some revisions going on here.
    An unpleasant economic 'adjustment' was always part of the Leave deal.
    This was countered by long term (unspecified before the vote) recovery and growth.
    It was otherwise a highly polished turd, though, playing into people's experiences and fears.
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    Can't be arsed to read over 170 posts since my last visit.

    All I will say is that TM is a,liar & can't be trusted to run a whelk stall. For over 2 years she has repeatedly stated that No Deal is better than a bad deal. Now, when she finally has a deal that is worse than we already have....and pisses all over her "red lines"....all we hear is that it's "this deal or nothing".

    Well.......you can piss off & the the rest of the government with you. There will be so much arm twisting, cajoling & bribing over the next 2 weeks it will make Dubai's winning of hosting the 2022 WC look kosher. I expect her deal to get through Parliament as 300 odd Tory MP's will vote for their own future's & not for what the public voted for.

    Shame on the lot of them.

    I agree with you golfie. However. Did you expect us to get a deal as good as the one we currently have as members ? It would be impossible and thats the knub of the whole brexit lie. How many people fell for it and you have to ask just how gullible were they.

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    Sound bite....read the detail of the speech.
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    Upsides and downsides are usually with reference to the financials. There is quite a lot more to brexit than that.
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    Maybe David Davis needs to come with footnotes.

    "There will be no downside to Brexit. Only a considerable upside." *

    * - Not true. Will actually be many downsides and no upside. Please see speech for more details.
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    seth plum said:

    Upsides and downsides are usually with reference to the financials. There is quite a lot more to brexit than that.

    Yep, Brexit is the biggest loss of rights in modern British history, difficult to forgive those who have blithely voted for me to lose my rights, and galling to have them claim me losing rights as some sort of victory.
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    seth plum said:

    Upsides and downsides are usually with reference to the financials. There is quite a lot more to brexit than that.

    Yep, Brexit is the biggest loss of rights in modern British history, difficult to forgive those who have blithely voted for me to lose my rights, and galling to have them claim me losing rights as some sort of victory.
    There are few Brexiters claiming victory I think you will find.
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    Amber Rudd’s comments this morning about Parliament not allowing a “no deal” Brexit could be quite a significant change of tactic by the government. She has just rejoined the cabinet; I can’t believe she has already decided to contradict May’s stated view that the choice is her deal or a no deal without permission. I think, possibly, May’s new tactic is her deal or a second referendum or no Brexit.
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    Southbank said:

    seth plum said:

    Upsides and downsides are usually with reference to the financials. There is quite a lot more to brexit than that.

    Yep, Brexit is the biggest loss of rights in modern British history, difficult to forgive those who have blithely voted for me to lose my rights, and galling to have them claim me losing rights as some sort of victory.
    There are few Brexiters claiming victory I think you will find.
    Except the ones who say 'you lost get over it'.
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    Amber Rudd’s comments this morning about Parliament not allowing a “no deal” Brexit could be quite a significant change of tactic by the government. She has just rejoined the cabinet; I can’t believe she has already decided to contradict May’s stated view that the choice is her deal or a no deal without permission. I think, possibly, May’s new tactic is her deal or a second referendum or no Brexit.

    Hope you’re right but you rarely are.

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    Southbank said:

    seth plum said:

    Upsides and downsides are usually with reference to the financials. There is quite a lot more to brexit than that.

    Yep, Brexit is the biggest loss of rights in modern British history, difficult to forgive those who have blithely voted for me to lose my rights, and galling to have them claim me losing rights as some sort of victory.
    There are few Brexiters claiming victory I think you will find.
    Maybe not now, but for much of the last two years we've heard nothing, but "leave won, get over it", like I'm supposed to jsut get over my rights being stolen and the financial security of myself, my children and my eventual grandchildren (remember Rees-Mogg blithely saying it could take 50 years before there is any upside?) needlessly put at risk, and to gain what? Please tell me something, anything that is worth what is being forcibly taken from me? It's been over 2 years and nobody can tell me anything that comes even close to being worth what I'm losing.
    Forcibly or democratically?
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    Southbank said:

    seth plum said:

    Upsides and downsides are usually with reference to the financials. There is quite a lot more to brexit than that.

    Yep, Brexit is the biggest loss of rights in modern British history, difficult to forgive those who have blithely voted for me to lose my rights, and galling to have them claim me losing rights as some sort of victory.
    There are few Brexiters claiming victory I think you will find.
    Maybe not now, but for much of the last two years we've heard nothing, but "leave won, get over it", like I'm supposed to jsut get over my rights being stolen and the financial security of myself, my children and my eventual grandchildren (remember Rees-Mogg blithely saying it could take 50 years before there is any upside?) needlessly put at risk, and to gain what? Please tell me something, anything that is worth what is being forcibly taken from me? It's been over 2 years and nobody can tell me anything that comes even close to being worth what I'm losing.
    Given that May's deal means we effectively become a colony of the EU, we are definitely worse off than before the Referendum. The fact that the CBI and most of the Tory Party support it is a disgrace.
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    Interesting article this morning
    image
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    Interesting article this morning
    image

    Mainly the product of the failure of social democrats to represent their traditional working class supporters.
    It is also misleading to call this effect 'right wing' as left wing populists like Melenchon in France and Corbyn have also gained influence.
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    It's The Grauniad. It's bound to take a slant.
    But it's still interesting reading.
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    Amber Rudd’s comments this morning about Parliament not allowing a “no deal” Brexit could be quite a significant change of tactic by the government. She has just rejoined the cabinet; I can’t believe she has already decided to contradict May’s stated view that the choice is her deal or a no deal without permission. I think, possibly, May’s new tactic is her deal or a second referendum or no Brexit.

    I think it was a slip - basically she told the truth which messes up May's tactics a bit.
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    Means three in four don't. And what's "populist" - not saying the article is wrong (I've not read it), but if trump is populist then that is about half of America.
    Southbank said:

    Interesting article this morning
    image

    Mainly the product of the failure of social democrats to represent their traditional working class supporters.
    It is also misleading to call this effect 'right wing' as left wing populists like Melenchon in France and Corbyn have also gained influence.
    Fiiish said:

    Southbank said:

    Interesting article this morning
    image

    Mainly the product of the failure of social democrats to represent their traditional working class supporters.
    It is also misleading to call this effect 'right wing' as left wing populists like Melenchon in France and Corbyn have also gained influence.
    It's actually mainly the product of the rise of groups funded by very powerful and wealthy individuals with vested interests espousing populist ideals and operating online using data manipulation and social engineering to operate in areas with poor legal safeguards or where current laws and policing are not up to date to deal with subversive methods of manipulating and defrauding the electorate.
    Agree with both. There's always going to be a section of society (and it's mainly going to be the working class for obvious reasons) who finger left out. Tensions can easily be stoked and manipulated, though thats not to say there isn't some merit behind some of the arguments (most certainly not all of them)
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    Southbank said:

    Southbank said:

    seth plum said:

    Upsides and downsides are usually with reference to the financials. There is quite a lot more to brexit than that.

    Yep, Brexit is the biggest loss of rights in modern British history, difficult to forgive those who have blithely voted for me to lose my rights, and galling to have them claim me losing rights as some sort of victory.
    There are few Brexiters claiming victory I think you will find.
    Maybe not now, but for much of the last two years we've heard nothing, but "leave won, get over it", like I'm supposed to jsut get over my rights being stolen and the financial security of myself, my children and my eventual grandchildren (remember Rees-Mogg blithely saying it could take 50 years before there is any upside?) needlessly put at risk, and to gain what? Please tell me something, anything that is worth what is being forcibly taken from me? It's been over 2 years and nobody can tell me anything that comes even close to being worth what I'm losing.
    Given that May's deal means we effectively become a colony of the EU, we are definitely worse off than before the Referendum. The fact that the CBI and most of the Tory Party support it is a disgrace.
    Its called closing ranks. Self interest above the best interest of the country.

This discussion has been closed.

Roland Out Forever!