Another totally incompetent inexperienced waste of space female MP allowed to represent Labour on Peston tonight. She was embarrassingly inept. Is there not some committee in the Labour Party responsible for vetting what MPs are allowed to represent them on TV and radio? Also, why do these shows always have MPs from constituencies that were 60% leave? There are plenty of MPs out there representing constituencies that were 60 - 70% Remain. My MP, Matthew Pennycook, is a shadow Brexit Minister and a good deal more competent then most of these Northern Labour MPs we always see on these shows, yet I never see him representing Labour’s Brexit position on TV.
Looking possible that an extension to the transition period could be agreed in the hope it provides time to find solutions. The nut jobs are not going to like that. Crisis for May of huge proportions looming.
David Davis as the new looney tune as leader anyone ?
However, to get a transition period, extended or not, the UK must agree an exit deal with the EU27, who, to date, require a Northern Ireland-specific permanent/all weather, backstop to prepare for any possible scenario short of a future relationship that is as good as now...
That is the requirement of M.Barnier and the EU27 and that is what will appear in the agreement. The EU doesn't need to blink first - they didn't with Varoufakis and they are entering into a much, much bigger challenge with the Italian coalition and their anti-austerity budget.
From our understanding of the options the all weather backstop will be for either N.Ireland or for the whole of the UK. Ironically this has been Labour policy to maintain a Customs Union with the EU for the whole of the UK since the beginning of 2018.
Loved a question on the politcs show which never got answered, even though the presenter asked it many times.
who would actually build the hard border.......the one no-one wants ?? The EU ?? The ROI ?? The UK ??
seeing as everyone, and I mean everyone (except me because I'm bloody pedantic) says that there can't be a border & there wont be a border......so just dont have one. No-one seemingly wants one so no-one will actually needs to build one. Who's going to go round after 6 months & tell the other off for not putting one up.
Loved a question on the politcs show which never got answered, even though the presenter asked it many times.
who would actually build the hard border.......the one no-one wants ?? The EU ?? The ROI ?? The UK ??
seeing as everyone, and I mean everyone (except me because I'm bloody pedantic) says that there can't be a border & there wont be a border......so just dont have one. No-one seemingly wants one so no-one will actually needs to build one. Who's going to go round after 6 months & tell the other off for not putting one up.
leave with no deal & just carry on as before.
Easy Peasy. Now onto Saudi Arabia.....
Yeah. I mean, it's not like we were ever told we'd be taking back control of our borders, is it?
Looking possible that an extension to the transition period could be agreed in the hope it provides time to find solutions. The nut jobs are not going to like that. Crisis for May of huge proportions looming.
David Davis as the new looney tune as leader anyone ?
However, to get a transition period, extended or not, the UK must agree an exit deal with the EU27, who, to date, require a Northern Ireland-specific permanent/all weather, backstop to prepare for any possible scenario short of a future relationship that is as good as now...
That is the requirement of M.Barnier and the EU27 and that is what will appear in the agreement. The EU doesn't need to blink first - they didn't with Varoufakis and they are entering into a much, much bigger challenge with the Italian coalition and their anti-austerity budget.
From our understanding of the options the all weather backstop will be for either N.Ireland or for the whole of the UK. Ironically this has been Labour policy to maintain a Customs Union with the EU for the whole of the UK since the beginning of 2018.
For the EU27, the backstop is NI only. Because the backstop is a unique example of, effectively, cakeism being allowed. The EU27 are only doing this in support of the Peace Process, in which they have invested heavily.
There is no UK-wide backstop option, if the UK wishes to avoid regulatory barriers with Northern Ireland, under the terms of the agreed backstop of December 2017, and the EU offer, the UK would have to agree to membership of the Single Market and Customs Union (the, not a).
Labour policy is no more workable (from an EU27 perspective) than T May's.
The one positive is that both sides do want a deal, but there remains an unwillingness, at least in what is said, on the part of UK politicians to understand their interlocutors.
Loved a question on the politcs show which never got answered, even though the presenter asked it many times.
who would actually build the hard border.......the one no-one wants ?? The EU ?? The ROI ?? The UK ??
seeing as everyone, and I mean everyone (except me because I'm bloody pedantic) says that there can't be a border & there wont be a border......so just dont have one. No-one seemingly wants one so no-one will actually needs to build one. Who's going to go round after 6 months & tell the other off for not putting one up.
leave with no deal & just carry on as before.
Easy Peasy. Now onto Saudi Arabia.....
If there is no agreement at all, all parties will implement the regulatory and customs requirements that no-one wants.
Because they have to.
And they will, and mutual goodwill, so important for future relations will be in very short supply.
Failing to do so is not an option, because the absence of a legally binding agreement that would allow continuation of the current frictionless trade, in real terms requires these controls on cross border trade.
In the absence of both agreement and controls, the countries involved would have to allow the same access for all other states, at least those in the WTO.
Parliament has already got agreement on having a vote on a no deal scenario, so they can send the government back to the table. The government would most likely call a referendum in those circumstances. It would be hard for either side not to respect the result of that although it is unlikely to stop the split in the country.
After two years of the Brexit shenanigans I do wonder just how engaged the electorate would be with a second vote. It was widely reported that the leave vote included many many disaffected who actually voted in the referendum for the first time in their life. Would this group actually be mobilised a second time. Obviously driven by the hype of the bus slogans and Farage and BoJo on a rampage. Am I right in thinking that the natural remain vote would on any second vote be more stable than the leave ?
I agree to a certain extent, but I'm sure the hard Brexit elite would try to mobilise them via a campaign of "they're trying to steal your brexit". They'll never fully explain who "they" are, but they won't need to, they never had to explain their lies last time around.
As a Leaver I am now coming round to the idea of a second referendum. As Remainers say, we now know more than we did 2 years ago. So the question on the referendum should be this: Should we instruct our politicians to leave the single market, the customs union and the jurisdiction of the European Court of Justice.Or, should we say no to the last Referendum result to leave the EU, carry on with free movement of people into the UK, and carry on paying 8.6 billion net a year into the EU.Vote yes for leaving and no for staying.
I’m not sure the electoral commission would approve that wording, they might find it slightly leading.
But that is the real choice
I think that wording would be great and would guarantee a conclusive vote to remain.
Loved a question on the politcs show which never got answered, even though the presenter asked it many times.
who would actually build the hard border.......the one no-one wants ?? The EU ?? The ROI ?? The UK ??
seeing as everyone, and I mean everyone (except me because I'm bloody pedantic) says that there can't be a border & there wont be a border......so just dont have one. No-one seemingly wants one so no-one will actually needs to build one. Who's going to go round after 6 months & tell the other off for not putting one up.
leave with no deal & just carry on as before.
Easy Peasy. Now onto Saudi Arabia.....
Maybe it wasn't answered because it was such a stupid question.
Loved a question on the politcs show which never got answered, even though the presenter asked it many times.
who would actually build the hard border.......the one no-one wants ?? The EU ?? The ROI ?? The UK ??
seeing as everyone, and I mean everyone (except me because I'm bloody pedantic) says that there can't be a border & there wont be a border......so just dont have one. No-one seemingly wants one so no-one will actually needs to build one. Who's going to go round after 6 months & tell the other off for not putting one up.
leave with no deal & just carry on as before.
Easy Peasy. Now onto Saudi Arabia.....
I thought Brexiteers wanted to take back control of our borders?
I have a feeling those remaining letters for a no confidence vote might be getting written now. She won't lose it but will be damaged enough to have to resign.
David Davis to become caretaker PM, JRM and Boris Johnson to get very senior cabinet positions.
In saner times this would be front page news. Well, it's not really news as they've be telling us for ages that if we want a trade deal we will need to scrap some of our current health, food standards and product safety protections.
I have a feeling those remaining letters for a no confidence vote might be getting written now. She won't lose it but will be damaged enough to have to resign.
David Davis to become caretaker PM, JRM and Boris Johnson to get very senior cabinet positions.
Cue absolute political chaos after that.
Sounds like a dream team - I'd get Farage and Gove on board as well.
Things would all be okay then. None of them would actually want to take any responsibility for anything and they could all stand around blaming each other.
Personally I'd like JRM as PM as he's good at speaking slowly, wearing a double breasted suit, knows Latin and has been very loyal to his nanny.
I have a feeling those remaining letters for a no confidence vote might be getting written now. She won't lose it but will be damaged enough to have to resign.
David Davis to become caretaker PM, JRM and Boris Johnson to get very senior cabinet positions.
Cue absolute political chaos after that.
If the letters are written, a vote of no confidence is held. If she loses that, she's gone. But if she wins it (or, more accurately, doesn't lose it) her position is very much strengthened.
Well if it gets rid of her or strengthens her, it has to be better than what we have now. If cross party remainers are not organising something I will be livid. I include Corbyn in that. We are within the window of opportunity to stop Brexit.
I have a feeling those remaining letters for a no confidence vote might be getting written now. She won't lose it but will be damaged enough to have to resign.
David Davis to become caretaker PM, JRM and Boris Johnson to get very senior cabinet positions.
Cue absolute political chaos after that.
If the letters are written, a vote of no confidence is held. If she loses that, she's gone. But if she wins it (or, more accurately, doesn't lose it) her position is very much strengthened.
At least, that's how I see it.
If she won, under Party rules, she'd be safe for twelve months - no more challenges are allowed for a year.
Loved a question on the politcs show which never got answered, even though the presenter asked it many times.
who would actually build the hard border.......the one no-one wants ?? The EU ?? The ROI ?? The UK ??
seeing as everyone, and I mean everyone (except me because I'm bloody pedantic) says that there can't be a border & there wont be a border......so just dont have one. No-one seemingly wants one so no-one will actually needs to build one. Who's going to go round after 6 months & tell the other off for not putting one up.
leave with no deal & just carry on as before.
Easy Peasy. Now onto Saudi Arabia.....
It’s not getting answered because like everything else it’s all about posturing. To open the debate about who builds the border would signify that one might be needed which politically at this point is not being admitted. As NI states above, should we crash out with no agreement in place then it’s absolutely certain that a border will be constructed. That is a fact regardless of what Johnson, Rees-Mogg and the other loons might say.
As for Julian Lewis, the conservative MP that brought up the subject at PMQ’s yesterday. How on earth are idiots like him voted into a position of responsibility. We have a shit shower of politicians in the HoC at present.
Loved a question on the politcs show which never got answered, even though the presenter asked it many times.
who would actually build the hard border.......the one no-one wants ?? The EU ?? The ROI ?? The UK ??
seeing as everyone, and I mean everyone (except me because I'm bloody pedantic) says that there can't be a border & there wont be a border......so just dont have one. No-one seemingly wants one so no-one will actually needs to build one. Who's going to go round after 6 months & tell the other off for not putting one up.
leave with no deal & just carry on as before.
Easy Peasy. Now onto Saudi Arabia.....
It’s not getting answered because like everything else it’s all about posturing. To open the debate about who builds the border would signify that one might be needed which politically at this point is not being admitted. As NI states above, should we crash out with no agreement in place then it’s absolutely certain that a border will be constructed. That is a fact regardless of what Johnson, Rees-Mogg and the other loons might say.
As for Julian Lewis, the conservative MP that brought up the subject at PMQ’s yesterday. How on earth are idiots like him voted into a position of responsibility. We have a shit shower of politicians in the HoC at present.
I'm still unsure why there would have to be a complete physical border.
Loved a question on the politcs show which never got answered, even though the presenter asked it many times.
who would actually build the hard border.......the one no-one wants ?? The EU ?? The ROI ?? The UK ??
seeing as everyone, and I mean everyone (except me because I'm bloody pedantic) says that there can't be a border & there wont be a border......so just dont have one. No-one seemingly wants one so no-one will actually needs to build one. Who's going to go round after 6 months & tell the other off for not putting one up.
leave with no deal & just carry on as before.
Easy Peasy. Now onto Saudi Arabia.....
It’s not getting answered because like everything else it’s all about posturing. To open the debate about who builds the border would signify that one might be needed which politically at this point is not being admitted. As NI states above, should we crash out with no agreement in place then it’s absolutely certain that a border will be constructed. That is a fact regardless of what Johnson, Rees-Mogg and the other loons might say.
As for Julian Lewis, the conservative MP that brought up the subject at PMQ’s yesterday. How on earth are idiots like him voted into a position of responsibility. We have a shit shower of politicians in the HoC at present.
but who builds it ????
no-one wants one & so each side will leave it for the other to build...... yes ??
Loved a question on the politcs show which never got answered, even though the presenter asked it many times.
who would actually build the hard border.......the one no-one wants ?? The EU ?? The ROI ?? The UK ??
seeing as everyone, and I mean everyone (except me because I'm bloody pedantic) says that there can't be a border & there wont be a border......so just dont have one. No-one seemingly wants one so no-one will actually needs to build one. Who's going to go round after 6 months & tell the other off for not putting one up.
leave with no deal & just carry on as before.
Easy Peasy. Now onto Saudi Arabia.....
It’s not getting answered because like everything else it’s all about posturing. To open the debate about who builds the border would signify that one might be needed which politically at this point is not being admitted. As NI states above, should we crash out with no agreement in place then it’s absolutely certain that a border will be constructed. That is a fact regardless of what Johnson, Rees-Mogg and the other loons might say.
As for Julian Lewis, the conservative MP that brought up the subject at PMQ’s yesterday. How on earth are idiots like him voted into a position of responsibility. We have a shit shower of politicians in the HoC at present.
but who builds it ????
no-one wants one & so each side will leave it for the other to build...... yes ??
In circumstances where one is needed then I’m sure both sides will cooperate. We won’t be at war.
I have a feeling those remaining letters for a no confidence vote might be getting written now. She won't lose it but will be damaged enough to have to resign.
David Davis to become caretaker PM, JRM and Boris Johnson to get very senior cabinet positions.
Cue absolute political chaos after that.
There is no way Boris Churchill will go along with that. That lot would also stab each other in the back quicker than Gove did to Johnson last time round.
Question is who does uncle Rup want? Gove I suspect.
Loved a question on the politcs show which never got answered, even though the presenter asked it many times.
who would actually build the hard border.......the one no-one wants ?? The EU ?? The ROI ?? The UK ??
seeing as everyone, and I mean everyone (except me because I'm bloody pedantic) says that there can't be a border & there wont be a border......so just dont have one. No-one seemingly wants one so no-one will actually needs to build one. Who's going to go round after 6 months & tell the other off for not putting one up.
leave with no deal & just carry on as before.
Easy Peasy. Now onto Saudi Arabia.....
It’s not getting answered because like everything else it’s all about posturing. To open the debate about who builds the border would signify that one might be needed which politically at this point is not being admitted. As NI states above, should we crash out with no agreement in place then it’s absolutely certain that a border will be constructed. That is a fact regardless of what Johnson, Rees-Mogg and the other loons might say.
As for Julian Lewis, the conservative MP that brought up the subject at PMQ’s yesterday. How on earth are idiots like him voted into a position of responsibility. We have a shit shower of politicians in the HoC at present.
but who builds it ????
no-one wants one & so each side will leave it for the other to build...... yes ??
The EU would have to fund it - can't see any UK govt trying to get this past the electorate. Can't really see any deal forthcoming....
As clueless as our politicians are the EU leaders don't seem a lot better. Plenty of posturing from them - there seems to have been little appreciation that anyone might want to leave.
Loved a question on the politcs show which never got answered, even though the presenter asked it many times.
who would actually build the hard border.......the one no-one wants ?? The EU ?? The ROI ?? The UK ??
seeing as everyone, and I mean everyone (except me because I'm bloody pedantic) says that there can't be a border & there wont be a border......so just dont have one. No-one seemingly wants one so no-one will actually needs to build one. Who's going to go round after 6 months & tell the other off for not putting one up.
leave with no deal & just carry on as before.
Easy Peasy. Now onto Saudi Arabia.....
It’s not getting answered because like everything else it’s all about posturing. To open the debate about who builds the border would signify that one might be needed which politically at this point is not being admitted. As NI states above, should we crash out with no agreement in place then it’s absolutely certain that a border will be constructed. That is a fact regardless of what Johnson, Rees-Mogg and the other loons might say.
As for Julian Lewis, the conservative MP that brought up the subject at PMQ’s yesterday. How on earth are idiots like him voted into a position of responsibility. We have a shit shower of politicians in the HoC at present.
but who builds it ????
no-one wants one & so each side will leave it for the other to build...... yes ??
In circumstances where one is needed then I’m sure both sides will cooperate. We won’t be at war.
Loved a question on the politcs show which never got answered, even though the presenter asked it many times.
who would actually build the hard border.......the one no-one wants ?? The EU ?? The ROI ?? The UK ??
seeing as everyone, and I mean everyone (except me because I'm bloody pedantic) says that there can't be a border & there wont be a border......so just dont have one. No-one seemingly wants one so no-one will actually needs to build one. Who's going to go round after 6 months & tell the other off for not putting one up.
leave with no deal & just carry on as before.
Easy Peasy. Now onto Saudi Arabia.....
It’s not getting answered because like everything else it’s all about posturing. To open the debate about who builds the border would signify that one might be needed which politically at this point is not being admitted. As NI states above, should we crash out with no agreement in place then it’s absolutely certain that a border will be constructed. That is a fact regardless of what Johnson, Rees-Mogg and the other loons might say.
As for Julian Lewis, the conservative MP that brought up the subject at PMQ’s yesterday. How on earth are idiots like him voted into a position of responsibility. We have a shit shower of politicians in the HoC at present.
but who builds it ????
no-one wants one & so each side will leave it for the other to build...... yes ??
There's usually two "borders" with a no mans land in between. It's up to the country that wants to stop something coming in (or out!) to build whatever they need.
You even get this arrangement on Eurostar at the moment. I can't see countries fully cooperating on the operation of a border.
Loved a question on the politcs show which never got answered, even though the presenter asked it many times.
who would actually build the hard border.......the one no-one wants ?? The EU ?? The ROI ?? The UK ??
seeing as everyone, and I mean everyone (except me because I'm bloody pedantic) says that there can't be a border & there wont be a border......so just dont have one. No-one seemingly wants one so no-one will actually needs to build one. Who's going to go round after 6 months & tell the other off for not putting one up.
leave with no deal & just carry on as before.
Easy Peasy. Now onto Saudi Arabia.....
It’s not getting answered because like everything else it’s all about posturing. To open the debate about who builds the border would signify that one might be needed which politically at this point is not being admitted. As NI states above, should we crash out with no agreement in place then it’s absolutely certain that a border will be constructed. That is a fact regardless of what Johnson, Rees-Mogg and the other loons might say.
As for Julian Lewis, the conservative MP that brought up the subject at PMQ’s yesterday. How on earth are idiots like him voted into a position of responsibility. We have a shit shower of politicians in the HoC at present.
but who builds it ????
no-one wants one & so each side will leave it for the other to build...... yes ??
In circumstances where one is needed then I’m sure both sides will cooperate. We won’t be at war.
Why would it be needed?
Below is something @NornIrishAddick wrote above. Apologies to him for nicking it.
If there is no agreement at all, all parties will implement the regulatory and customs requirements that no-one wants.
Because they have to.
And they will, and mutual goodwill, so important for future relations will be in very short supply.
Failing to do so is not an option, because the absence of a legally binding agreement that would allow continuation of the current frictionless trade, in real terms requires these controls on cross border trade.
In the absence of both agreement and controls, the countries involved would have to allow the same access for all other states, at least those in the WTO.
I think EU leaders realise the border issue is unlikely to be resolved as part of a deal. It seems to me now we either stay in the EU or exit with 'no deal'.
Politics in this country has become an utter shambles.
That still doesn't explain why a border would be needed, customs checks, absolutely, but an actual physical border, I don't think so, many, many countries that are WTO members do not have hard borders with their neighbours.
I feel I have to point out, again, I in no way support a hard Brexit, but the idea that it would lead to a complete physical border, is, imo, incorrect.
Comments
Ah, so the much vaunted US trade deal is likely to require us to accept the presence of maggots, rat-hair and mould in our food. Lovely. And that's before we get on to the risks to our NHS from the US Healthcare megacorps.
From our understanding of the options the all weather backstop will be for either N.Ireland or for the whole of the UK. Ironically this has been Labour policy to maintain a Customs Union with the EU for the whole of the UK since the beginning of 2018.
who would actually build the hard border.......the one no-one wants ?? The EU ?? The ROI ?? The UK ??
seeing as everyone, and I mean everyone (except me because I'm bloody pedantic) says that there can't be a border & there wont be a border......so just dont have one. No-one seemingly wants one so no-one will actually needs to build one. Who's going to go round after 6 months & tell the other off for not putting one up.
leave with no deal & just carry on as before.
Easy Peasy. Now onto Saudi Arabia.....
There is no UK-wide backstop option, if the UK wishes to avoid regulatory barriers with Northern Ireland, under the terms of the agreed backstop of December 2017, and the EU offer, the UK would have to agree to membership of the Single Market and Customs Union (the, not a).
Labour policy is no more workable (from an EU27 perspective) than T May's.
The one positive is that both sides do want a deal, but there remains an unwillingness, at least in what is said, on the part of UK politicians to understand their interlocutors.
Because they have to.
And they will, and mutual goodwill, so important for future relations will be in very short supply.
Failing to do so is not an option, because the absence of a legally binding agreement that would allow continuation of the current frictionless trade, in real terms requires these controls on cross border trade.
In the absence of both agreement and controls, the countries involved would have to allow the same access for all other states, at least those in the WTO.
I think that wording would be great and would guarantee a conclusive vote to remain.
David Davis to become caretaker PM, JRM and Boris Johnson to get very senior cabinet positions.
Cue absolute political chaos after that.
Things would all be okay then. None of them would actually want to take any responsibility for anything and they could all stand around blaming each other.
Personally I'd like JRM as PM as he's good at speaking slowly, wearing a double breasted suit, knows Latin and has been very loyal to his nanny.
At least, that's how I see it.
As for Julian Lewis, the conservative MP that brought up the subject at PMQ’s yesterday. How on earth are idiots like him voted into a position of responsibility. We have a shit shower of politicians in the HoC at present.
no-one wants one & so each side will leave it for the other to build...... yes ??
Question is who does uncle Rup want? Gove I suspect.
As clueless as our politicians are the EU leaders don't seem a lot better. Plenty of posturing from them - there seems to have been little appreciation that anyone might want to leave.
Europe seems at a dangerous crossroads.
Fine by me, and it looks inevitable anyway by the laws of Geography, Engineering, Physics and common sense.
You even get this arrangement on Eurostar at the moment. I can't see countries fully cooperating on the operation of a border.
If there is no agreement at all, all parties will implement the regulatory and customs requirements that no-one wants.
Because they have to.
And they will, and mutual goodwill, so important for future relations will be in very short supply.
Failing to do so is not an option, because the absence of a legally binding agreement that would allow continuation of the current frictionless trade, in real terms requires these controls on cross border trade.
In the absence of both agreement and controls, the countries involved would have to allow the same access for all other states, at least those in the WTO.
Politics in this country has become an utter shambles.
I feel I have to point out, again, I in no way support a hard Brexit, but the idea that it would lead to a complete physical border, is, imo, incorrect.