I see it's being reported that, despite HMG having agreed the principle a Northern Ireland-specific backstop last December, UK officials are now saying that such a backstop is unacceptable.
I'm really not sure that going backwards will lead to a successful outcome.
I'm walking backwards for Christmas, Across the Irish Sea, I'm walking backwards for Christmas, It's the only thing for me..
I've tried walking sideways, And walking to the front, But people just look at me, And say it's a publicity stunt..
I'm walking backwards for Christmas, To prove that I love you..
I see it's being reported that, despite HMG having agreed the principle a Northern Ireland-specific backstop last December, UK officials are now saying that such a backstop is unacceptable.
I'm really not sure that going backwards will lead to a successful outcome.
I'm walking backwards for Christmas, Across the Irish Sea, I'm walking backwards for Christmas, It's the only thing for me..
@NornIrishAddick - It seems on this point, we are in agreement, any form of 'border' would be an absolute shitshow, which I stated earlier, my point was that a full hard border would not be necessary.
Really not sure what your perception of a hard border is ? To me it’s customs posts and passport checks on all road crossing points which will probably mean some smaller crossing points being blocked. That is what a hard border means to me anyway.
It is pathetic that May is trying to sort out solutions to real problems and seemingly the one positive thing - from her perspective - she got from the meeting i.e. more time to sort out the backstop issue and she has to play it down as it was only a couple of months that we are very unlikely to require. We were told by the EU it was potentially another year FFS! What sort of crap is going on here? If she has to tread on eggshells with her own party we need to try to find a way to give the negotiators some power - that can be by having a clear mandate following a second vote or an election. May weakly stumbling from one internal crisis to another is damaging the country and any deal she gets will be rejected.
If we do have brexit and it turns out only half as bad as predicted - the conservative party will be unelectable for decades. That doesn't make me happy as I have no great desire to live in a poorer country.
@NornIrishAddick - It seems on this point, we are in agreement, any form of 'border' would be an absolute shitshow, which I stated earlier, my point was that a full hard border would not be necessary.
Really not sure what your perception of a hard border is ? To me it’s customs posts and passport checks on all road crossing points which will probably mean some smaller crossing points being blocked. That is what a hard border means to me anyway.
That's not what I've seen in other countries I've visited, all members of the WTO.
That is certainly an interpretation of a hard border though, one that I think is possible. What I was saying is 100% unnecessary is a hard border (wall/fence) across the entire island.
@NornIrishAddick - It seems on this point, we are in agreement, any form of 'border' would be an absolute shitshow, which I stated earlier, my point was that a full hard border would not be necessary.
Really not sure what your perception of a hard border is ? To me it’s customs posts and passport checks on all road crossing points which will probably mean some smaller crossing points being blocked. That is what a hard border means to me anyway.
That's not what I've seen in other countries I've visited, all members of the WTO.
That is certainly an interpretation of a hard border, one that I think is possible. What I was saying is 100% unnecessary is a hard border (wall/fence) across the entire island.
That won’t happen. Don’t think I’ve ever read that it would.
It is pathetic that May is trying to sort out solutions to real problems and seemingly the one positive thing - from her perspective - she got from the meeting i.e. more time to sort out the backstop issue and she has to play it down as it was only a couple of months that we are very unlikely to require. We were told by the EU it was potentially another year FFS! What sort of crap is going on here? If she has to tread on eggshells with her own party we need to try to find a way to give the negotiators some power - that can be by having a clear mandate following a second vote or an election. May weakly stumbling from one internal crisis to another is damaging the country and any deal she gets will be rejected.
If we do have brexit and it turns out only half as bad as predicted - the conservative party will be unelectable for decades. That doesn't make me happy as I have no great desire to live in a poorer country.
I'm still waiting for an ardent Brexiteer on here to explain who should be leading the negotiations?
@NornIrishAddick - It seems on this point, we are in agreement, any form of 'border' would be an absolute shitshow, which I stated earlier, my point was that a full hard border would not be necessary.
Really not sure what your perception of a hard border is ? To me it’s customs posts and passport checks on all road crossing points which will probably mean some smaller crossing points being blocked. That is what a hard border means to me anyway.
That's not what I've seen in other countries I've visited, all members of the WTO.
That is certainly an interpretation of a hard border, one that I think is possible. What I was saying is 100% unnecessary is a hard border (wall/fence) across the entire island.
That won’t happen. Don’t think I’ve ever read that it would.
Go back and look at the last page.
"Who is actually going to construct the thing? 310 miles of fence/wall/radar surveillance or whatever is agreed looks like being one hell of a construction project. I hope they've got their contracts and project plans in place for immediate sign-off. Like everything else to do with Brexit it's looking like a very tall order."
@NornIrishAddick - It seems on this point, we are in agreement, any form of 'border' would be an absolute shitshow, which I stated earlier, my point was that a full hard border would not be necessary.
Really not sure what your perception of a hard border is ? To me it’s customs posts and passport checks on all road crossing points which will probably mean some smaller crossing points being blocked. That is what a hard border means to me anyway.
That's not what I've seen in other countries I've visited, all members of the WTO.
That is certainly an interpretation of a hard border, one that I think is possible. What I was saying is 100% unnecessary is a hard border (wall/fence) across the entire island.
That won’t happen. Don’t think I’ve ever read that it would.
Go back and look at the last page.
"Who is actually going to construct the thing? 310 miles of fence/wall/radar surveillance or whatever is agreed looks like being one hell of a construction project. I hope they've got their contracts and project plans in place for immediate sign-off. Like everything else to do with Brexit it's looking like a very tall order."
I think the point was being made that it won’t be a completely fenced border, not least due to the enormous engineering cost and complexity involved.
I would guess that the borders you’ve visited that trade on WTO terms do have customs & immigration posts on the major crossings?
@NornIrishAddick - It seems on this point, we are in agreement, any form of 'border' would be an absolute shitshow, which I stated earlier, my point was that a full hard border would not be necessary.
Really not sure what your perception of a hard border is ? To me it’s customs posts and passport checks on all road crossing points which will probably mean some smaller crossing points being blocked. That is what a hard border means to me anyway.
That's not what I've seen in other countries I've visited, all members of the WTO.
That is certainly an interpretation of a hard border, one that I think is possible. What I was saying is 100% unnecessary is a hard border (wall/fence) across the entire island.
That won’t happen. Don’t think I’ve ever read that it would.
Go back and look at the last page.
"Who is actually going to construct the thing? 310 miles of fence/wall/radar surveillance or whatever is agreed looks like being one hell of a construction project. I hope they've got their contracts and project plans in place for immediate sign-off. Like everything else to do with Brexit it's looking like a very tall order."
We are. Going. To. Build. A. Wall!! And Mexico Ireland will pay for it!
@NornIrishAddick - It seems on this point, we are in agreement, any form of 'border' would be an absolute shitshow, which I stated earlier, my point was that a full hard border would not be necessary.
Really not sure what your perception of a hard border is ? To me it’s customs posts and passport checks on all road crossing points which will probably mean some smaller crossing points being blocked. That is what a hard border means to me anyway.
That's not what I've seen in other countries I've visited, all members of the WTO.
That is certainly an interpretation of a hard border, one that I think is possible. What I was saying is 100% unnecessary is a hard border (wall/fence) across the entire island.
That won’t happen. Don’t think I’ve ever read that it would.
Go back and look at the last page.
"Who is actually going to construct the thing? 310 miles of fence/wall/radar surveillance or whatever is agreed looks like being one hell of a construction project. I hope they've got their contracts and project plans in place for immediate sign-off. Like everything else to do with Brexit it's looking like a very tall order."
I think the point was being made that it won’t be a completely fenced border, not least due to the enormous engineering cost and complexity involved.
I would guess that the borders you’ve visited that trade on WTO terms do have customs & immigration posts on the major crossings?
1) I don't agree that was the point at all, the poster, imo, was seriously discussing how a full border would be financed and built.
2) Yes, which I think is the worst possible outcome of a hard Brexit - which would be a total disaster - but several people have discussed a full border, numerous times, which is what I was saying will never happen, as it's completely unnecessary.
@NornIrishAddick - It seems on this point, we are in agreement, any form of 'border' would be an absolute shitshow, which I stated earlier, my point was that a full hard border would not be necessary.
Really not sure what your perception of a hard border is ? To me it’s customs posts and passport checks on all road crossing points which will probably mean some smaller crossing points being blocked. That is what a hard border means to me anyway.
That's not what I've seen in other countries I've visited, all members of the WTO.
That is certainly an interpretation of a hard border, one that I think is possible. What I was saying is 100% unnecessary is a hard border (wall/fence) across the entire island.
That won’t happen. Don’t think I’ve ever read that it would.
Go back and look at the last page.
"Who is actually going to construct the thing? 310 miles of fence/wall/radar surveillance or whatever is agreed looks like being one hell of a construction project. I hope they've got their contracts and project plans in place for immediate sign-off. Like everything else to do with Brexit it's looking like a very tall order."
I think the point was being made that it won’t be a completely fenced border, not least due to the enormous engineering cost and complexity involved.
I would guess that the borders you’ve visited that trade on WTO terms do have customs & immigration posts on the major crossings?
1) I don't agree that was the point at all, the poster, imo, was seriously discussing how a full border would be financed and built.
2) Yes, which I think is the worst possible outcome of a hard Brexit - which would be a total disaster - but several people have discussed a full border, numerous times, which is what I was saying will never happen, as it's completely unnecessary.
@NornIrishAddick - It seems on this point, we are in agreement, any form of 'border' would be an absolute shitshow, which I stated earlier, my point was that a full hard border would not be necessary.
Really not sure what your perception of a hard border is ? To me it’s customs posts and passport checks on all road crossing points which will probably mean some smaller crossing points being blocked. That is what a hard border means to me anyway.
That's not what I've seen in other countries I've visited, all members of the WTO.
That is certainly an interpretation of a hard border, one that I think is possible. What I was saying is 100% unnecessary is a hard border (wall/fence) across the entire island.
That won’t happen. Don’t think I’ve ever read that it would.
Go back and look at the last page.
"Who is actually going to construct the thing? 310 miles of fence/wall/radar surveillance or whatever is agreed looks like being one hell of a construction project. I hope they've got their contracts and project plans in place for immediate sign-off. Like everything else to do with Brexit it's looking like a very tall order."
I think the point was being made that it won’t be a completely fenced border, not least due to the enormous engineering cost and complexity involved.
I would guess that the borders you’ve visited that trade on WTO terms do have customs & immigration posts on the major crossings?
1) I don't agree that was the point at all, the poster, imo, was seriously discussing how a full border would be financed and built.
2) Yes, which I think is the worst possible outcome of a hard Brexit - which would be a total disaster - but several people have discussed a full border, numerous times, which is what I was saying will never happen, as it's completely unnecessary.
Agreed, those people are mental.
To be fair, the entire idea of a no deal scenario is mental.
@NornIrishAddick - It seems on this point, we are in agreement, any form of 'border' would be an absolute shitshow, which I stated earlier, my point was that a full hard border would not be necessary.
Really not sure what your perception of a hard border is ? To me it’s customs posts and passport checks on all road crossing points which will probably mean some smaller crossing points being blocked. That is what a hard border means to me anyway.
That's not what I've seen in other countries I've visited, all members of the WTO.
That is certainly an interpretation of a hard border, one that I think is possible. What I was saying is 100% unnecessary is a hard border (wall/fence) across the entire island.
That won’t happen. Don’t think I’ve ever read that it would.
Go back and look at the last page.
"Who is actually going to construct the thing? 310 miles of fence/wall/radar surveillance or whatever is agreed looks like being one hell of a construction project. I hope they've got their contracts and project plans in place for immediate sign-off. Like everything else to do with Brexit it's looking like a very tall order."
I think the point was being made that it won’t be a completely fenced border, not least due to the enormous engineering cost and complexity involved.
I would guess that the borders you’ve visited that trade on WTO terms do have customs & immigration posts on the major crossings?
1) I don't agree that was the point at all, the poster, imo, was seriously discussing how a full border would be financed and built.
2) Yes, which I think is the worst possible outcome of a hard Brexit - which would be a total disaster - but several people have discussed a full border, numerous times, which is what I was saying will never happen, as it's completely unnecessary.
Agreed, those people are mental.
To be fair, the entire idea of a no deal scenario is mental.
JRM thinks differently - will provide a £1.1 trillion boost to UK economy over 15 years. There is nothing to fear....
he should be kicked out of theTory party with his mates and they can join UKIP where their views belong.
And then maybe we can have a referendum over leaving the EU etc... . I think the secret is for politicians to fabricate ridiculous figures and hope the electorate believe them.... it seems to work.
‘This is an insult to our country as well as our joint shared past and the whole Brexit process'. Jayne Adye, Get Britain Out.
The delusional, self-important arrogance amongst a certain strata of Brexiteers is quite simply stunning. We were members of a club where each member was guaranteed instant, unlimited access to the facilities of all other members. After years of dicking the other members about, moaning and whinging about every little thing, we chose to leave that club. Now there is a good chance that one or more of the remaining members may restrict our access to their private facilities. That is not insulting it's a wholly predictable and reasonable response; it's what your grubby organisation encouraged people to vote for you utter cockwomble.
‘This is an insult to our country as well as our joint shared past and the whole Brexit process'. Jayne Adye, Get Britain Out.
The delusional, self-important arrogance amongst a certain strata of Brexiteers is quite simply stunning. We were members of a club where each member was guaranteed instant, unlimited access to the facilities of all other members. After years of dicking the other members about, moaning and whinging about every little thing, we chose to leave that club. Now there is a good chance that one or more of the remaining members may restrict our access to their private facilities. That is not insulting it's a wholly predictable and reasonable response; it's what your grubby organisation encouraged people to vote for you utter cockwomble.
It’s crazy isn’t it, imagine being a member of an organisation called “Get Britain Out” and then being upset that we won’t get the same benefits as when Britain was in!
‘This is an insult to our country as well as our joint shared past and the whole Brexit process'. Jayne Adye, Get Britain Out.
The delusional, self-important arrogance amongst a certain strata of Brexiteers is quite simply stunning. We were members of a club where each member was guaranteed instant, unlimited access to the facilities of all other members. After years of dicking the other members about, moaning and whinging about every little thing, we chose to leave that club. Now there is a good chance that one or more of the remaining members may restrict our access to their private facilities. That is not insulting it's a wholly predictable and reasonable response; it's what your grubby organisation encouraged people to vote for you utter cockwomble.
It’s crazy isn’t it, imagine being a member of an organisation called “Get Britain Out” and then being upset that we won’t get the same benefits as when Britain was in!
@NornIrishAddick - It seems on this point, we are in agreement, any form of 'border' would be an absolute shitshow, which I stated earlier, my point was that a full hard border would not be necessary.
Really not sure what your perception of a hard border is ? To me it’s customs posts and passport checks on all road crossing points which will probably mean some smaller crossing points being blocked. That is what a hard border means to me anyway.
That's not what I've seen in other countries I've visited, all members of the WTO.
That is certainly an interpretation of a hard border, one that I think is possible. What I was saying is 100% unnecessary is a hard border (wall/fence) across the entire island.
That won’t happen. Don’t think I’ve ever read that it would.
Go back and look at the last page.
"Who is actually going to construct the thing? 310 miles of fence/wall/radar surveillance or whatever is agreed looks like being one hell of a construction project. I hope they've got their contracts and project plans in place for immediate sign-off. Like everything else to do with Brexit it's looking like a very tall order."
I think the point was being made that it won’t be a completely fenced border, not least due to the enormous engineering cost and complexity involved.
I would guess that the borders you’ve visited that trade on WTO terms do have customs & immigration posts on the major crossings?
1) I don't agree that was the point at all, the poster, imo, was seriously discussing how a full border would be financed and built.
2) Yes, which I think is the worst possible outcome of a hard Brexit - which would be a total disaster - but several people have discussed a full border, numerous times, which is what I was saying will never happen, as it's completely unnecessary.
Agreed, those people are mental.
To be fair, the entire idea of a no deal scenario is mental.
JRM thinks differently - will provide a £1.1 trillion boost to UK economy over 15 years. There is nothing to fear....
@NornIrishAddick - It seems on this point, we are in agreement, any form of 'border' would be an absolute shitshow, which I stated earlier, my point was that a full hard border would not be necessary.
Really not sure what your perception of a hard border is ? To me it’s customs posts and passport checks on all road crossing points which will probably mean some smaller crossing points being blocked. That is what a hard border means to me anyway.
That's not what I've seen in other countries I've visited, all members of the WTO.
That is certainly an interpretation of a hard border, one that I think is possible. What I was saying is 100% unnecessary is a hard border (wall/fence) across the entire island.
That won’t happen. Don’t think I’ve ever read that it would.
Go back and look at the last page.
"Who is actually going to construct the thing? 310 miles of fence/wall/radar surveillance or whatever is agreed looks like being one hell of a construction project. I hope they've got their contracts and project plans in place for immediate sign-off. Like everything else to do with Brexit it's looking like a very tall order."
I think the point was being made that it won’t be a completely fenced border, not least due to the enormous engineering cost and complexity involved.
I would guess that the borders you’ve visited that trade on WTO terms do have customs & immigration posts on the major crossings?
1) I don't agree that was the point at all, the poster, imo, was seriously discussing how a full border would be financed and built.
2) Yes, which I think is the worst possible outcome of a hard Brexit - which would be a total disaster - but several people have discussed a full border, numerous times, which is what I was saying will never happen, as it's completely unnecessary.
Agreed, those people are mental.
To be fair, the entire idea of a no deal scenario is mental.
JRM thinks differently - will provide a £1.1 trillion boost to UK economy over 15 years. There is nothing to fear....
Surely this can't be the same delusional Jacob Rees Mogg who only a few months ago was saying that the benefits of Brexit may not be felt for 50 years?
‘This is an insult to our country as well as our joint shared past and the whole Brexit process'. Jayne Adye, Get Britain Out.
The delusional, self-important arrogance amongst a certain strata of Brexiteers is quite simply stunning. We were members of a club where each member was guaranteed instant, unlimited access to the facilities of all other members. After years of dicking the other members about, moaning and whinging about every little thing, we chose to leave that club. Now there is a good chance that one or more of the remaining members may restrict our access to their private facilities. That is not insulting it's a wholly predictable and reasonable response; it's what your grubby organisation encouraged people to vote for you utter cockwomble.
It’s crazy isn’t it, imagine being a member of an organisation called “Get Britain Out” and then being upset that we won’t get the same benefits as when Britain was in!
It shows a similar level of self-awareness of a person ("Dan") who phoned Any Answers on Saturday.
He had said that he had not voted in the Referendum, because he was then living in Germany and could not get registered in time - he would have voted Remain.
He is now living and working in Oslo, and says he would vote Leave if there was another referendum, because he felt that the best candidates should get the job, no matter where they come from.
Asked about what would happen to him once Freedom of Movement was removed , he said he might have to get a visa, though married to a Norwegian, but that he would also get an Irish passport because his mother is from Northern Ireland.
I may have screamed something about a hypocritical numpty at the car radio.
@NornIrishAddick - It seems on this point, we are in agreement, any form of 'border' would be an absolute shitshow, which I stated earlier, my point was that a full hard border would not be necessary.
Really not sure what your perception of a hard border is ? To me it’s customs posts and passport checks on all road crossing points which will probably mean some smaller crossing points being blocked. That is what a hard border means to me anyway.
That's not what I've seen in other countries I've visited, all members of the WTO.
That is certainly an interpretation of a hard border, one that I think is possible. What I was saying is 100% unnecessary is a hard border (wall/fence) across the entire island.
That won’t happen. Don’t think I’ve ever read that it would.
Go back and look at the last page.
"Who is actually going to construct the thing? 310 miles of fence/wall/radar surveillance or whatever is agreed looks like being one hell of a construction project. I hope they've got their contracts and project plans in place for immediate sign-off. Like everything else to do with Brexit it's looking like a very tall order."
I think the point was being made that it won’t be a completely fenced border, not least due to the enormous engineering cost and complexity involved.
I would guess that the borders you’ve visited that trade on WTO terms do have customs & immigration posts on the major crossings?
1) I don't agree that was the point at all, the poster, imo, was seriously discussing how a full border would be financed and built.
2) Yes, which I think is the worst possible outcome of a hard Brexit - which would be a total disaster - but several people have discussed a full border, numerous times, which is what I was saying will never happen, as it's completely unnecessary.
Agreed, those people are mental.
To be fair, the entire idea of a no deal scenario is mental.
JRM thinks differently - will provide a £1.1 trillion boost to UK economy over 15 years. There is nothing to fear....
It convinced me and it's a very big number. I'm not quite sure how the figure was arrived at but he seems an awfully nice chap and it seems rude to question him.
We're in the money providing those pesky remainers don't ruin everything.
Would seem we'd be better off joining the EEA in April 2019.
Doesn't suit the hard Brexiters as still a "vassal state" and doesn't suit the remainers either as not in the EU but we have Norway style access to the single market, Ireland isn't an issue either but it does give us time to either do a better deal with the EU (unlikely) or sort out 75 trade deals with other countries so we just don't fall off the no deal cliff.
But as very few people and very few MPs want EEA membership May can't politically opt for that.
I think the problem is that a lot of people think "no deal" means carrying on pretty much as we are but with a few longer queues when you go abroad. It actually means and would be better called "no deals". It means we have no trade deals with any country at all.
Would seem we'd be better off joining the EEA in April 2019.
Doesn't suit the hard Brexiters as still a "vassal state" and doesn't suit the remainers either as not in the EU but we have Norway style access to the single market, Ireland isn't an issue either but it does give us time to either do a better deal with the EU (unlikely) or sort out 75 trade deals with other countries so we just don't fall off the no deal cliff.
But as very few people and very few MPs want EEA membership May can't politically opt for that.
I think the problem is that a lot of people think "no deal" means carrying on pretty much as we are but with a few longer queues when you go abroad. It actually means and would be better called "no deals". It means we have no trade deals with any country at all.
I think it's pretty clear that we all have a good understanding of the Brexit process in the UK - that's why everything has gone so well.
It almost seems like nobody really knows what they want? Everyone knows what they don't want....
That was always the problem.
I was torn at the time of the vote as the idea of parliamentary sovereignty was attractive but I couldn't see what "leave" would look like. There was lots of talk about about what we'd be leaving behind but no clear picture of where we were going and I don't think it has, over two years on, got any clearer.
If anything it is worse and even pro-brexit people, from Corbyn to Rees-Mogg, can't agree and can't articulate a clear programme that addresses all the issues.
May has an almost impossible job but she is doing it very badly and created some of the mess herself with the general election, the red lines and worst of all the hasty triggering of Article 50 (championed by JC) before she knew or had any agreement within her own party as to what Brexit should be. Hence her "Brexit means Brexit" line. She couldn't say because, she and no one else knew.
It almost seems like nobody really knows what they want? Everyone knows what they don't want....
That was always the problem.
I was torn at the time of the vote as the idea of parliamentary sovereignty was attractive but I couldn't see what "leave" would look like. There was lots of talk about about what we'd be leaving behind but no clear picture of where we were going and I don't think it has, over two years on, got any clearer.
If anything it is worse and even pro-brexit people, from Corbyn to Rees-Mogg, can't agree and can't articulate a clear programme that addresses all the issues.
May has an almost impossible job but she is doing it very badly and created some of the mess herself with the general election, the red lines and worst of all the hasty triggering of Article 50 (championed by JC) before she knew or had any agreement within her own party as to what Brexit should be. Hence her "Brexit means Brexit" line. She couldn't say because, she and no one else knew.
So where do we go from here? The country is in disarray, very divided and there are a lot of unhappy people about. There is no common consensus on what the Brexit strategy should be and it seems unlikely there ever will be.
Meaningless glib soundbites from our politicians aren't helping.
Comments
Across the Irish Sea,
I'm walking backwards for Christmas,
It's the only thing for me..
I've tried walking sideways,
And walking to the front,
But people just look at me,
And say it's a publicity stunt..
I'm walking backwards for Christmas,
To prove that I love you..
If we do have brexit and it turns out only half as bad as predicted - the conservative party will be unelectable for decades. That doesn't make me happy as I have no great desire to live in a poorer country.
That is certainly an interpretation of a hard border though, one that I think is possible. What I was saying is 100% unnecessary is a hard border (wall/fence) across the entire island.
"Who is actually going to construct the thing? 310 miles of fence/wall/radar surveillance or whatever is agreed looks like being one hell of a construction project. I hope they've got their contracts and project plans in place for immediate sign-off. Like everything else to do with Brexit it's looking like a very tall order."
I would guess that the borders you’ve visited that trade on WTO terms do have customs & immigration posts on the major crossings?
MexicoIreland will pay for it!2) Yes, which I think is the worst possible outcome of a hard Brexit - which would be a total disaster - but several people have discussed a full border, numerous times, which is what I was saying will never happen, as it's completely unnecessary.
He seems very trustworthy....
https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2018/09/11/no-deal-brexit-will-give-uk-trillion-pound-boost-say-mps-ready-to-rebel/
.
I think the secret is for politicians to fabricate ridiculous figures and hope the electorate believe them.... it seems to work.
The delusional, self-important arrogance amongst a certain strata of Brexiteers is quite simply stunning. We were members of a club where each member was guaranteed instant, unlimited access to the facilities of all other members. After years of dicking the other members about, moaning and whinging about every little thing, we chose to leave that club. Now there is a good chance that one or more of the remaining members may restrict our access to their private facilities. That is not insulting it's a wholly predictable and reasonable response; it's what your grubby organisation encouraged people to vote for you utter cockwomble.
Shurely shome mishtake?
He had said that he had not voted in the Referendum, because he was then living in Germany and could not get registered in time - he would have voted Remain.
He is now living and working in Oslo, and says he would vote Leave if there was another referendum, because he felt that the best candidates should get the job, no matter where they come from.
Asked about what would happen to him once Freedom of Movement was removed , he said he might have to get a visa, though married to a Norwegian, but that he would also get an Irish passport because his mother is from Northern Ireland.
I may have screamed something about a hypocritical numpty at the car radio.
We're in the money providing those pesky remainers don't ruin everything.
In JRM we trust!
Doesn't suit the hard Brexiters as still a "vassal state" and doesn't suit the remainers either as not in the EU but we have Norway style access to the single market, Ireland isn't an issue either but it does give us time to either do a better deal with the EU (unlikely) or sort out 75 trade deals with other countries so we just don't fall off the no deal cliff.
But as very few people and very few MPs want EEA membership May can't politically opt for that.
I think the problem is that a lot of people think "no deal" means carrying on pretty much as we are but with a few longer queues when you go abroad. It actually means and would be better called "no deals". It means we have no trade deals with any country at all.
JRM has convinced me all will be okay.
I was torn at the time of the vote as the idea of parliamentary sovereignty was attractive but I couldn't see what "leave" would look like. There was lots of talk about about what we'd be leaving behind but no clear picture of where we were going and I don't think it has, over two years on, got any clearer.
If anything it is worse and even pro-brexit people, from Corbyn to Rees-Mogg, can't agree and can't articulate a clear programme that addresses all the issues.
May has an almost impossible job but she is doing it very badly and created some of the mess herself with the general election, the red lines and worst of all the hasty triggering of Article 50 (championed by JC) before she knew or had any agreement within her own party as to what Brexit should be. Hence her "Brexit means Brexit" line. She couldn't say because, she and no one else knew.
Meaningless glib soundbites from our politicians aren't helping.