Farage’s big bucks – The former Ukip leader Nigel Farage earned £524,000 and £700,000 through TV and radio work respectively in the past four years, according to transparency campaigners who are calling on MEPs to be more open about second jobs. The figures make him the highest earner outside the European parliament of any of Britain’s 73 MEPs, according to Transparency International. Last year Farage claimed to be “skint”.
Funny you should bring up Sunderland actually. It's been demonstrated that the most pro-Brexit areas are those with the lowest immigration, and the areas having the highest pro-Remain vote had the most diversity.
Sunderland are the ultimate proof of those states, a 94% white British population voting to leave the EU over fears of too much immigration.
I'm also not sure what point you're trying to raise, are you suggesting that everybody in Sunderland is working class, or that nobody there votes Tory, or that there are no millionaires in the North East?
A look through by-election results shows Tories comfortably winning seats in Sunderland as recently as 2007, seems the crash and subsequent economic policies has swung it back to Labour, but still more than 10% of the seats on the council are held by Tories.
But apparently 'nobody knows' why people voted for Brexit now, -so it is ok to keep free movement etc, whereas after the referendum 'everybody knew' it was about immigration.
The only people who can be relied upon to sort Brexit out are Farage, Bojo and the Moggster. We need leaders who are brave, principled and full of integrity - It's about time we gave Johnny Foreigner a bloody nose!
Let's make Britain great again - we want our country back!
Funny you should bring up Sunderland actually. It's been demonstrated that the most pro-Brexit areas are those with the lowest immigration, and the areas having the highest pro-Remain vote had the most diversity.
Sunderland are the ultimate proof of those states, a 94% white British population voting to leave the EU over fears of too much immigration.
I'm also not sure what point you're trying to raise, are you suggesting that everybody in Sunderland is working class, or that nobody there votes Tory, or that there are no millionaires in the North East?
A look through by-election results shows Tories comfortably winning seats in Sunderland as recently as 2007, seems the crash and subsequent economic policies has swung it back to Labour, but still more than 10% of the seats on the council are held by Tories.
But apparently 'nobody knows' why people voted for Brexit now, -so it is ok to keep free movement etc, whereas after the referendum 'everybody knew' it was about immigration.
You've ably demonstrated that people read into the vote what they wanted to, so just because it looks immigration will be largely unchanged (as many predicted), that doesn't mean people didn't vote for the things they imagined Brexit would give them.
You say you voted for Brexit on a point of democratic principle. Just because we've learnt that Russians interfered with the process and the leave campaigns partook in electoral fraud doesn't in any way change why you voted.
We know that a lot of people voted to leave based on immigration because they were asked and that's what they said. That's what polls are. We don't have to guess, we don't have to make up reasons, enough people were asked to give statistically meaningful results.
As I wrote on this very thread many many pages and months ago, the vast majority of reasons people gave for voting No fall into 3 broad categories:
1) Things that could already be done within the EU, but the Daily Mail and leave campaigns lied long and hard enough to convince people we needed to leave to do them 2) Things that are mutually exclusive (like leave the CU and SM, but trade exactly as we do now, or leave the EU but get a deal just as good as members get) 3) Things that we would be crazy to do because they would damage the country significantly
Farage’s big bucks – The former Ukip leader Nigel Farage earned £524,000 and £700,000 through TV and radio work respectively in the past four years, according to transparency campaigners who are calling on MEPs to be more open about second jobs. The figures make him the highest earner outside the European parliament of any of Britain’s 73 MEPs, according to Transparency International. Last year Farage claimed to be “skint”.
The only people who can be relied upon to sort Brexit out are Farage, Bojo and the Moggster. We need leaders who are brave, principled and full of integrity - It's about time we gave Johnny Foreigner a bloody nose!
Let's make Britain great again - we want our country back!
Yes, let's bring back the Empire. Let's go and exploit and oppress some foreigners which will make us feel so proud. Rule Britannia.........
Funny you should bring up Sunderland actually. It's been demonstrated that the most pro-Brexit areas are those with the lowest immigration, and the areas having the highest pro-Remain vote had the most diversity.
Sunderland are the ultimate proof of those states, a 94% white British population voting to leave the EU over fears of too much immigration.
I'm also not sure what point you're trying to raise, are you suggesting that everybody in Sunderland is working class, or that nobody there votes Tory, or that there are no millionaires in the North East?
A look through by-election results shows Tories comfortably winning seats in Sunderland as recently as 2007, seems the crash and subsequent economic policies has swung it back to Labour, but still more than 10% of the seats on the council are held by Tories.
Not strictly true, the highest leave vote in the country was in Boston which has seen a huge influx of eastern European agricultural workers.
The only people who can be relied upon to sort Brexit out are Farage, Bojo and the Moggster. We need leaders who are brave, principled and full of integrity - It's about time we gave Johnny Foreigner a bloody nose!
Let's make Britain great again - we want our country back!
Yes, let's bring back the Empire. Let's go and exploit and oppress some foreigners which will make us feel so proud. Rule Britannia.........
In terms of the Labour position on Brexit, it isn't that hard to be confused by it unless you are trying to be. It is not too disimilar to Teresa May's agreed position after Chequers. Labour faces a similar problem in that it has its own splits but Corbyn has explained it and people seem to be playing dumb. They might not like it or agree but the position has been set out!
Yes,Labour's position is Brexit in name only like May's-but that was not in the manifesto last year.
Labour are not going to vote for the deal agreed at Chequers. The Govt will not be able to get this deal through the HoC because a chunk of Tory Brexiteers will vote against it . Its absolutely dead in the water.
The question is what next?
My feeling is that we are in a classic bind
1. There is no majority for the Chequers deal 2. The Chequers deal will be amended and softened towards a EEA/EFTA (Norway) position with to all intents and purposes a Customs Union agreement. There is no certainly that Labour will support that either and even more Tory Leaver rebels will oppose. 3. There is no majority for a Canada style FTA. 4. There is no majority for leaving with no deal 5. There is no majority for remaining with no deal.
Parliament is gridlocked and the clock is ticking.
I can see 3 possibilities
1. A general election - I can't see May calling one at the moment so it would have to be by via a Vote of Confidence. I can't see the Tories not rallying around so all depends on the DUP. 2. A request to the EU to extend A50 to give more time to try to reach an agreement in Parliament. I think this is a strong possibility now as May won't be able to get the deal through. 3. 2. opens up the possibility of a binding referendum on the final deal. My feeling has been for sometime that this is where we are heading.
With the death of Lord Carrington today, I cannot be the only one who looks back on him fondly, standing as he does in complete contrast to the most recent Foreign Secretary.
With the death of Lord Carrington today, I cannot be the only one who looks back on him fondly, standing as he does in complete contrast to the most recent Foreign Secretary.
Would this be a good moment for the brexit voters on here to tell us what the upside to all this malarkey is?
Ask the Remainers, they are the ones in charge and have been since the Referendum.
Thank Christ for that.
Hopefully now we can declare the referendum null and void because it was only advisory anyway, based on lies, and opinion has changed - and then go to the EU and say "Only joking - can we revoke Article 50?".
I guarantee no government will ever, ever suggest a referendum again.
Would this be a good moment for the brexit voters on here to tell us what the upside to all this malarkey is?
Ask the Remainers, they are the ones in charge and have been since the Referendum.
Thank Christ for that.
Hopefully now we can declare the referendum null and void because it was only advisory anyway, based on lies, and opinion has changed - and then go to the EU and say "Only joking - can we revoke Article 50?".
I guarantee no government will ever, ever suggest a referendum again.
If you hold a referendum it's probably worth doing a bit of planning beforehand - quite incredible how stupid Cameron was. Showed his true character by bailing out once the result didn't go his way.
The Brexit cheerleaders have had ample opportunity to demonstrate their ineptitude ever since - if you're going to leave the EU you have to a have a vague understanding of the process involved. I don't think BoJo has managed to do anything constructive in his entire life.
In terms of the Labour position on Brexit, it isn't that hard to be confused by it unless you are trying to be. It is not too disimilar to Teresa May's agreed position after Chequers. Labour faces a similar problem in that it has its own splits but Corbyn has explained it and people seem to be playing dumb. They might not like it or agree but the position has been set out!
Yes,Labour's position is Brexit in name only like May's-but that was not in the manifesto last year.
Labour are not going to vote for the deal agreed at Chequers. The Govt will not be able to get this deal through the HoC because a chunk of Tory Brexiteers will vote against it . Its absolutely dead in the water.
The question is what next?
My feeling is that we are in a classic bind
1. There is no majority for the Chequers deal 2. The Chequers deal will be amended and softened towards a EEA/EFTA (Norway) position with to all intents and purposes a Customs Union agreement. There is no certainly that Labour will support that either and even more Tory Leaver rebels will oppose. 3. There is no majority for a Canada style FTA. 4. There is no majority for leaving with no deal 5. There is no majority for remaining with no deal.
Parliament is gridlocked and the clock is ticking.
I can see 3 possibilities
1. A general election - I can't see May calling one at the moment so it would have to be by via a Vote of Confidence. I can't see the Tories not rallying around so all depends on the DUP. 2. A request to the EU to extend A50 to give more time to try to reach an agreement in Parliament. I think this is a strong possibility now as May won't be able to get the deal through. 3. 2. opens up the possibility of a binding referendum on the final deal. My feeling has been for sometime that this is where we are heading.
I think no.2. I agree that no outcomes is possible as there is a not a majority for any of them.
Newsnight was good again last night.....Matthew Parris & Ian Dale especially.
I think there should now be a 2nd Referendum with the electorate voting for either a hard/no deal brexit or to remain. If we leave it has to be all or nothing. I expect the result to be nearer 60/40 to remain on that basis. I'd prob vote to remain on that basis.
In terms of the Labour position on Brexit, it isn't that hard to be confused by it unless you are trying to be. It is not too disimilar to Teresa May's agreed position after Chequers. Labour faces a similar problem in that it has its own splits but Corbyn has explained it and people seem to be playing dumb. They might not like it or agree but the position has been set out!
Yes,Labour's position is Brexit in name only like May's-but that was not in the manifesto last year.
Labour are not going to vote for the deal agreed at Chequers. The Govt will not be able to get this deal through the HoC because a chunk of Tory Brexiteers will vote against it . Its absolutely dead in the water.
The question is what next?
My feeling is that we are in a classic bind
1. There is no majority for the Chequers deal 2. The Chequers deal will be amended and softened towards a EEA/EFTA (Norway) position with to all intents and purposes a Customs Union agreement. There is no certainly that Labour will support that either and even more Tory Leaver rebels will oppose. 3. There is no majority for a Canada style FTA. 4. There is no majority for leaving with no deal 5. There is no majority for remaining with no deal.
Parliament is gridlocked and the clock is ticking.
I can see 3 possibilities
1. A general election - I can't see May calling one at the moment so it would have to be by via a Vote of Confidence. I can't see the Tories not rallying around so all depends on the DUP. 2. A request to the EU to extend A50 to give more time to try to reach an agreement in Parliament. I think this is a strong possibility now as May won't be able to get the deal through. 3. 2. opens up the possibility of a binding referendum on the final deal. My feeling has been for sometime that this is where we are heading.
I think no.2. I agree that no outcomes is possible as there is a not a majority for any of them.
Newsnight was good again last night.....Matthew Parris & Ian Dale especially.
I think there should now be a 2nd Referendum with the electorate voting for either a hard/no deal brexit or to remain. If we leave it has to be all or nothing. I expect the result to be nearer 60/40 to remain on that basis. I'd prob vote to remain on that basis.
Is there any point having a referendum if our politicians don't know what they are doing and seem unable to formulate an exit plan? Does ànyone have any confidence in them?
In terms of the Labour position on Brexit, it isn't that hard to be confused by it unless you are trying to be. It is not too disimilar to Teresa May's agreed position after Chequers. Labour faces a similar problem in that it has its own splits but Corbyn has explained it and people seem to be playing dumb. They might not like it or agree but the position has been set out!
Yes,Labour's position is Brexit in name only like May's-but that was not in the manifesto last year.
Labour are not going to vote for the deal agreed at Chequers. The Govt will not be able to get this deal through the HoC because a chunk of Tory Brexiteers will vote against it . Its absolutely dead in the water.
The question is what next?
My feeling is that we are in a classic bind
1. There is no majority for the Chequers deal 2. The Chequers deal will be amended and softened towards a EEA/EFTA (Norway) position with to all intents and purposes a Customs Union agreement. There is no certainly that Labour will support that either and even more Tory Leaver rebels will oppose. 3. There is no majority for a Canada style FTA. 4. There is no majority for leaving with no deal 5. There is no majority for remaining with no deal.
Parliament is gridlocked and the clock is ticking.
I can see 3 possibilities
1. A general election - I can't see May calling one at the moment so it would have to be by via a Vote of Confidence. I can't see the Tories not rallying around so all depends on the DUP. 2. A request to the EU to extend A50 to give more time to try to reach an agreement in Parliament. I think this is a strong possibility now as May won't be able to get the deal through. 3. 2. opens up the possibility of a binding referendum on the final deal. My feeling has been for sometime that this is where we are heading.
I think no.2. I agree that no outcomes is possible as there is a not a majority for any of them.
Newsnight was good again last night.....Matthew Parris & Ian Dale especially.
I think there should now be a 2nd Referendum with the electorate voting for either a hard/no deal brexit or to remain. If we leave it has to be all or nothing. I expect the result to be nearer 60/40 to remain on that basis. I'd prob vote to remain on that basis.
Is there any point having a referendum if our politicians don't know what they are doing and seem unable to formulate an exit plan? Does ànyone have any confidence in them?
Because if they can't or don't have the collective intellect to do so then the only alternatives are falling off the cliff or changing direction. I think Golfie makes a very sensible point.
In terms of the Labour position on Brexit, it isn't that hard to be confused by it unless you are trying to be. It is not too disimilar to Teresa May's agreed position after Chequers. Labour faces a similar problem in that it has its own splits but Corbyn has explained it and people seem to be playing dumb. They might not like it or agree but the position has been set out!
Yes,Labour's position is Brexit in name only like May's-but that was not in the manifesto last year.
Labour are not going to vote for the deal agreed at Chequers. The Govt will not be able to get this deal through the HoC because a chunk of Tory Brexiteers will vote against it . Its absolutely dead in the water.
The question is what next?
My feeling is that we are in a classic bind
1. There is no majority for the Chequers deal 2. The Chequers deal will be amended and softened towards a EEA/EFTA (Norway) position with to all intents and purposes a Customs Union agreement. There is no certainly that Labour will support that either and even more Tory Leaver rebels will oppose. 3. There is no majority for a Canada style FTA. 4. There is no majority for leaving with no deal 5. There is no majority for remaining with no deal.
Parliament is gridlocked and the clock is ticking.
I can see 3 possibilities
1. A general election - I can't see May calling one at the moment so it would have to be by via a Vote of Confidence. I can't see the Tories not rallying around so all depends on the DUP. 2. A request to the EU to extend A50 to give more time to try to reach an agreement in Parliament. I think this is a strong possibility now as May won't be able to get the deal through. 3. 2. opens up the possibility of a binding referendum on the final deal. My feeling has been for sometime that this is where we are heading.
I think no.2. I agree that no outcomes is possible as there is a not a majority for any of them.
Newsnight was good again last night.....Matthew Parris & Ian Dale especially.
I think there should now be a 2nd Referendum with the electorate voting for either a hard/no deal brexit or to remain. If we leave it has to be all or nothing. I expect the result to be nearer 60/40 to remain on that basis. I'd prob vote to remain on that basis.
There is no way on God's earth those in charge would allow us to vote for a clean Brexit. They already did that once and lost.Why would they risk it again? If there is another vote on this at some point it would be on something that is Remain under a different name and Remain. And they will call it democratic even tho 8 million less people will vote-or probably ever again. But Remainers will be happy with that because the lost voters will be those who in their eyes should not have had a vote anyway.
Fintan O'Toole is clearly scoring points over the Brexit architects. He does highlight that Johnson and Davis are doing a runner when it becomes clear that a hard Brexit doesn't fly.
But where I take issue is what's wrong with Norway and Switzerland? No problem with BINO and it will do the UK a world of good to reflect upon how and why we gave up the influence won back in 1973.
Incidentally that would be the same influence and participation which De Gaul refused to cede.
The irony is that Farage, Johnson and Rees Mogg bleat on about becoming a rule taker or vassel state. So whose fault is that?!
In short, this is going rather well but is still very turbulent.
The constant need for certain Brexiters to blame others is really sad. Britain is and has always been a great country and it wouldn't have got to where it is with this persistent failure to take responsibility or get things done. Imagine the great figures of the industrial revolution or the World Wars saying we cant do this because of..., it's not fair etc.
There's a worrying attitude of constantly passing the blame and shirking responsibility amongst Brexiters that just doesn't seem, well, very British. Ironic when they call out people for not wanting to cause needless damage to the country as being unpatriotic!
In terms of the Labour position on Brexit, it isn't that hard to be confused by it unless you are trying to be. It is not too disimilar to Teresa May's agreed position after Chequers. Labour faces a similar problem in that it has its own splits but Corbyn has explained it and people seem to be playing dumb. They might not like it or agree but the position has been set out!
Yes,Labour's position is Brexit in name only like May's-but that was not in the manifesto last year.
Labour are not going to vote for the deal agreed at Chequers. The Govt will not be able to get this deal through the HoC because a chunk of Tory Brexiteers will vote against it . Its absolutely dead in the water.
The question is what next?
My feeling is that we are in a classic bind
1. There is no majority for the Chequers deal 2. The Chequers deal will be amended and softened towards a EEA/EFTA (Norway) position with to all intents and purposes a Customs Union agreement. There is no certainly that Labour will support that either and even more Tory Leaver rebels will oppose. 3. There is no majority for a Canada style FTA. 4. There is no majority for leaving with no deal 5. There is no majority for remaining with no deal.
Parliament is gridlocked and the clock is ticking.
I can see 3 possibilities
1. A general election - I can't see May calling one at the moment so it would have to be by via a Vote of Confidence. I can't see the Tories not rallying around so all depends on the DUP. 2. A request to the EU to extend A50 to give more time to try to reach an agreement in Parliament. I think this is a strong possibility now as May won't be able to get the deal through. 3. 2. opens up the possibility of a binding referendum on the final deal. My feeling has been for sometime that this is where we are heading.
I think no.2. I agree that no outcomes is possible as there is a not a majority for any of them.
Newsnight was good again last night.....Matthew Parris & Ian Dale especially.
I think there should now be a 2nd Referendum with the electorate voting for either a hard/no deal brexit or to remain. If we leave it has to be all or nothing. I expect the result to be nearer 60/40 to remain on that basis. I'd prob vote to remain on that basis.
There is no way on God's earth those in charge would allow us to vote for a clean Brexit. They already did that once and lost.Why would they risk it again? If there is another vote on this at some point it would be on something that is Remain under a different name and Remain. And they will call it democratic even tho 8 million less people will vote-or probably ever again. But Remainers will be happy with that because the lost voters will be those who in their eyes should not have had a vote anyway.
Most people were pretty clueless what they were voting for in the referendum and the politicians had done next to no planning regarding the outcome. Even the most avid Brexiteers seem unable to agree on a coherent strategy.
In terms of the Labour position on Brexit, it isn't that hard to be confused by it unless you are trying to be. It is not too disimilar to Teresa May's agreed position after Chequers. Labour faces a similar problem in that it has its own splits but Corbyn has explained it and people seem to be playing dumb. They might not like it or agree but the position has been set out!
Yes,Labour's position is Brexit in name only like May's-but that was not in the manifesto last year.
Labour are not going to vote for the deal agreed at Chequers. The Govt will not be able to get this deal through the HoC because a chunk of Tory Brexiteers will vote against it . Its absolutely dead in the water.
The question is what next?
My feeling is that we are in a classic bind
1. There is no majority for the Chequers deal 2. The Chequers deal will be amended and softened towards a EEA/EFTA (Norway) position with to all intents and purposes a Customs Union agreement. There is no certainly that Labour will support that either and even more Tory Leaver rebels will oppose. 3. There is no majority for a Canada style FTA. 4. There is no majority for leaving with no deal 5. There is no majority for remaining with no deal.
Parliament is gridlocked and the clock is ticking.
I can see 3 possibilities
1. A general election - I can't see May calling one at the moment so it would have to be by via a Vote of Confidence. I can't see the Tories not rallying around so all depends on the DUP. 2. A request to the EU to extend A50 to give more time to try to reach an agreement in Parliament. I think this is a strong possibility now as May won't be able to get the deal through. 3. 2. opens up the possibility of a binding referendum on the final deal. My feeling has been for sometime that this is where we are heading.
I think no.2. I agree that no outcomes is possible as there is a not a majority for any of them.
Newsnight was good again last night.....Matthew Parris & Ian Dale especially.
I think there should now be a 2nd Referendum with the electorate voting for either a hard/no deal brexit or to remain. If we leave it has to be all or nothing. I expect the result to be nearer 60/40 to remain on that basis. I'd prob vote to remain on that basis.
There is no way on God's earth those in charge would allow us to vote for a clean Brexit. They already did that once and lost.Why would they risk it again? If there is another vote on this at some point it would be on something that is Remain under a different name and Remain. And they will call it democratic even tho 8 million less people will vote-or probably ever again. But Remainers will be happy with that because the lost voters will be those who in their eyes should not have had a vote anyway.
Most people were pretty clueless what they were voting for in the referendum and the politicians had done next to no planning regarding the outcome. Even the most avid Brexiteers seem unable to agree on a coherent strategy.
The whole exercise seems completely pointless.
Remember 'take back control'? People voted for that, control over borders and laws. It was really not that complicated. It has become mystified as Remainers have channelled us away from that to what I agree is a pointless position. Remember, it is not the EU who have done this, we have not even started dealing with them. It is our own people who have done this. Not surpisingly an alliance of Remain politicians, big business and bureaucrats in love with bureacracy have sabotaged Brexit. Brexit is dead and our democracy has taken a massive blow.
Comments
Let's make Britain great again - we want our country back!
You say you voted for Brexit on a point of democratic principle. Just because we've learnt that Russians interfered with the process and the leave campaigns partook in electoral fraud doesn't in any way change why you voted.
We know that a lot of people voted to leave based on immigration because they were asked and that's what they said. That's what polls are. We don't have to guess, we don't have to make up reasons, enough people were asked to give statistically meaningful results.
As I wrote on this very thread many many pages and months ago, the vast majority of reasons people gave for voting No fall into 3 broad categories:
1) Things that could already be done within the EU, but the Daily Mail and leave campaigns lied long and hard enough to convince people we needed to leave to do them
2) Things that are mutually exclusive (like leave the CU and SM, but trade exactly as we do now, or leave the EU but get a deal just as good as members get)
3) Things that we would be crazy to do because they would damage the country significantly
Not strictly true, the highest leave vote in the country was in Boston which has seen a huge influx of eastern European agricultural workers.
The question is what next?
My feeling is that we are in a classic bind
1. There is no majority for the Chequers deal
2. The Chequers deal will be amended and softened towards a EEA/EFTA (Norway) position with to all intents and purposes a Customs Union agreement. There is no certainly that Labour will support that either and even more Tory Leaver rebels will oppose.
3. There is no majority for a Canada style FTA.
4. There is no majority for leaving with no deal
5. There is no majority for remaining with no deal.
Parliament is gridlocked and the clock is ticking.
I can see 3 possibilities
1. A general election - I can't see May calling one at the moment so it would have to be by via a Vote of Confidence. I can't see the Tories not rallying around so all depends on the DUP.
2. A request to the EU to extend A50 to give more time to try to reach an agreement in Parliament. I think this is a strong possibility now as May won't be able to get the deal through.
3. 2. opens up the possibility of a binding referendum on the final deal. My feeling has been for sometime that this is where we are heading.
Hopefully now we can declare the referendum null and void because it was only advisory anyway, based on lies, and opinion has changed - and then go to the EU and say "Only joking - can we revoke Article 50?".
I guarantee no government will ever, ever suggest a referendum again.
The Brexit cheerleaders have had ample opportunity to demonstrate their ineptitude ever since - if you're going to leave the EU you have to a have a vague understanding of the process involved. I don't think BoJo has managed to do anything constructive in his entire life.
Newsnight was good again last night.....Matthew Parris & Ian Dale especially.
I think there should now be a 2nd Referendum with the electorate voting for either a hard/no deal brexit or to remain. If we leave it has to be all or nothing. I expect the result to be nearer 60/40 to remain on that basis. I'd prob vote to remain on that basis.
If there is another vote on this at some point it would be on something that is Remain under a different name and Remain.
And they will call it democratic even tho 8 million less people will vote-or probably ever again.
But Remainers will be happy with that because the lost voters will be those who in their eyes should not have had a vote anyway.
But where I take issue is what's wrong with Norway and Switzerland? No problem with BINO and it will do the UK a world of good to reflect upon how and why we gave up the influence won back in 1973.
Incidentally that would be the same influence and participation which De Gaul refused to cede.
The irony is that Farage, Johnson and Rees Mogg bleat on about becoming a rule taker or vassel state. So whose fault is that?!
In short, this is going rather well but is still very turbulent.
There's a worrying attitude of constantly passing the blame and shirking responsibility amongst Brexiters that just doesn't seem, well, very British. Ironic when they call out people for not wanting to cause needless damage to the country as being unpatriotic!
The whole exercise seems completely pointless.
It has become mystified as Remainers have channelled us away from that to what I agree is a pointless position. Remember, it is not the EU who have done this, we have not even started dealing with them. It is our own people who have done this.
Not surpisingly an alliance of Remain politicians, big business and bureaucrats in love with bureacracy have sabotaged Brexit.
Brexit is dead and our democracy has taken a massive blow.