Sounds like the Lords are going to sort all this nonsense out anyways.
Its a weird/unique set of circumstances when an institution that I have wanted abolished for most of my life, is the one riding to the rescue.
It is not weird. Once you go down the road of opposing democracy by not accepting the referendum result, it is not weird that you should find yourself welcoming and celebrating the intervention by the most grossly undemocratic institution in politics. There will be a lot further to go as well my friend: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/may/02/democracy-crisis-plan-trump-brexit-system-politicans-voters This Remainer wants educational qualifications for voters-the same argument that was used to stop blacks in the US getting the vote under the Jim Crow laws. Once you go off the path of democracy there is no end to how far you will go in undermining popular sovereignty..
You use the word 'accepting' in relation to the referendum result, and suggest that 'not accepting' is the same as 'opposing democracy'.
Putting to one side the position I and others take, which is to indeed accept (or endure if you like) the referendum result, and now challenge brexiters to explain what they have voted for and how they will achieve that.
However not accepting is a long way from opposition. I don't 'accept' the Tory government, in that I despise them and within the law will resist what they do. I have the right in my view to refuse to accept alliance to somebody like Boris 'picaninny' Johnson, or Jacob Rees Mogg. I believe what you hint at is akin to what Esther McVay and others keep on saying 'don't talk brexit down, get behind the country, we have a great future out of the EU', George Orwell might say we are called on to love Big Brother.
Well no.
I 'accept' that I have lost as a matter of dreadful happenstance in my lifetime, but why should I 'accept' the result of that being stuff like travel restrictions, a worse version of democracy, less collaboration and co-operation with all kinds of good EU stuff?
And the forthcoming hard border on the island of Ireland?
Incidentally I will again push back at your non-detailed critique that the EU is undemocratic. It is more democratic than the UK, which operates decidedly undemocratic practices of of it's own in house. There is absolutely no objective way that you can say that the EU is undemocratic, and repeating it won't make what you say true.
Anyway you can be happy that I know I am a loser, but don't expect me to be happy about it.
In addition, in the absence of any kind of coherent plan from the brexiters, what would there be to accept or oppose anyway?
Having the liberty to express opinion and ask questions did not stop when the referendum ballot closed, just as pro brexit people expressed opinion and asked questions before the vote. Some might even say such discourse is the very currency of 'democracy', yet you seem antagonistic towards that particular feature of 'democracy'.
I don't understand why brexiters spend so much time gawping at the reaction of us remain losers.
Maybe it is because brexiters have no clue as to what to do with their victory, so turn on remainers for not loving them enough, a useful distraction.
If the people of a country are told they have a once in a generational chance to shape the future of that country and having made that decision by a majority are thwarted by people in power who take a different view then we have a massive political crisis in the making.
At present, there is still some slight reticence on the part of the largely Remainer Government and Remainer majorities amongst both Labour and Tory MPs to overturn the referendum result outright. The discussion over the Customs Union is a stepping stone towards that end because pursuing a CU can only have two endings. One is that the EU says no, whatever form the UK proposal finally takes. The second is that the EU insists on something which we can all probably agree is pointless, membership of the Customs Union with no control over its rules or the movement of people. If the EU says no then the majorities in Parliament will say staying in the EU is better than crashing out. If the CU deal is as bad as is being proposed then the argument will be that staying in the EU is better than being a rule taker. Either way the referendum result will be directly challenged, and that is when the political crisis wil take off.
Let’s just get this right, the entire referendum was forced by a tiny minority within the government of the day. You want to talk about lack of sovereignty and political crisis, start there.
No mandate to do anything was granted by the referendum, with leave ‘politicians’ changing their views throughout the campaign and since.
The advantage of the current stage of screw up is that at least no one is talking about the massive subversion of sovereignty that will happen when unelected ministers and civil servants pick and choose what laws will make up your Brexit wonderland.
Sounds like the Lords are going to sort all this nonsense out anyways.
Its a weird/unique set of circumstances when an institution that I have wanted abolished for most of my life, is the one riding to the rescue.
It is not weird. Once you go down the road of opposing democracy by not accepting the referendum result, it is not weird that you should find yourself welcoming and celebrating the intervention by the most grossly undemocratic institution in politics. There will be a lot further to go as well my friend: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/may/02/democracy-crisis-plan-trump-brexit-system-politicans-voters This Remainer wants educational qualifications for voters-the same argument that was used to stop blacks in the US getting the vote under the Jim Crow laws. Once you go off the path of democracy there is no end to how far you will go in undermining popular sovereignty..
You use the word 'accepting' in relation to the referendum result, and suggest that 'not accepting' is the same as 'opposing democracy'.
Putting to one side the position I and others take, which is to indeed accept (or endure if you like) the referendum result, and now challenge brexiters to explain what they have voted for and how they will achieve that.
However not accepting is a long way from opposition. I don't 'accept' the Tory government, in that I despise them and within the law will resist what they do. I have the right in my view to refuse to accept alliance to somebody like Boris 'picaninny' Johnson, or Jacob Rees Mogg. I believe what you hint at is akin to what Esther McVay and others keep on saying 'don't talk brexit down, get behind the country, we have a great future out of the EU', George Orwell might say we are called on to love Big Brother.
Well no.
I 'accept' that I have lost as a matter of dreadful happenstance in my lifetime, but why should I 'accept' the result of that being stuff like travel restrictions, a worse version of democracy, less collaboration and co-operation with all kinds of good EU stuff?
And the forthcoming hard border on the island of Ireland?
Incidentally I will again push back at your non-detailed critique that the EU is undemocratic. It is more democratic than the UK, which operates decidedly undemocratic practices of of it's own in house. There is absolutely no objective way that you can say that the EU is undemocratic, and repeating it won't make what you say true.
Anyway you can be happy that I know I am a loser, but don't expect me to be happy about it.
In addition, in the absence of any kind of coherent plan from the brexiters, what would there be to accept or oppose anyway?
Having the liberty to express opinion and ask questions did not stop when the referendum ballot closed, just as pro brexit people expressed opinion and asked questions before the vote. Some might even say such discourse is the very currency of 'democracy', yet you seem antagonistic towards that particular feature of 'democracy'.
I don't understand why brexiters spend so much time gawping at the reaction of us remain losers.
Maybe it is because brexiters have no clue as to what to do with their victory, so turn on remainers for not loving them enough, a useful distraction.
If the people of a country are told they have a once in a generational chance to shape the future of that country and having made that decision by a majority are thwarted by people in power who take a different view then we have a massive political crisis in the making.
At present, there is still some slight reticence on the part of the largely Remainer Government and Remainer majorities amongst both Labour and Tory MPs to overturn the referendum result outright. The discussion over the Customs Union is a stepping stone towards that end because pursuing a CU can only have two endings. One is that the EU says no, whatever form the UK proposal finally takes. The second is that the EU insists on something which we can all probably agree is pointless, membership of the Customs Union with no control over its rules or the movement of people. If the EU says no then the majorities in Parliament will say staying in the EU is better than crashing out. If the CU deal is as bad as is being proposed then the argument will be that staying in the EU is better than being a rule taker. Either way the referendum result will be directly challenged, and that is when the political crisis wil take off.
Let’s just get this right, the entire referendum was forced by a tiny minority within the government of the day. You want to talk about lack of sovereignty and political crisis, start there.
No mandate to do anything was granted by the referendum, with leave ‘politicians’ changing their views throughout the campaign and since.
The advantage of the current stage of screw up is that at least no one is talking about the massive subversion of sovereignty that will happen when unelected ministers and civil servants pick and choose what laws will make up your Brexit wonderland.
" Brexit wonderland" . Sounds very much like the title of the Midnight Oil song. Well actually that song is about a similar group in society. I shall adopt it as an anti Brexit anthem
1.4m votes up for grabs is not to be sniffed at for any political party but hopefully it will ramp up the pressure in Corbyn to have a much clearer position if nothing else.
Sounds like the Lords are going to sort all this nonsense out anyways.
Its a weird/unique set of circumstances when an institution that I have wanted abolished for most of my life, is the one riding to the rescue.
It is not weird. Once you go down the road of opposing democracy by not accepting the referendum result, it is not weird that you should find yourself welcoming and celebrating the intervention by the most grossly undemocratic institution in politics. There will be a lot further to go as well my friend: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/may/02/democracy-crisis-plan-trump-brexit-system-politicans-voters This Remainer wants educational qualifications for voters-the same argument that was used to stop blacks in the US getting the vote under the Jim Crow laws. Once you go off the path of democracy there is no end to how far you will go in undermining popular sovereignty..
You use the word 'accepting' in relation to the referendum result, and suggest that 'not accepting' is the same as 'opposing democracy'.
Putting to one side the position I and others take, which is to indeed accept (or endure if you like) the referendum result, and now challenge brexiters to explain what they have voted for and how they will achieve that.
However not accepting is a long way from opposition. I don't 'accept' the Tory government, in that I despise them and within the law will resist what they do. I have the right in my view to refuse to accept alliance to somebody like Boris 'picaninny' Johnson, or Jacob Rees Mogg. I believe what you hint at is akin to what Esther McVay and others keep on saying 'don't talk brexit down, get behind the country, we have a great future out of the EU', George Orwell might say we are called on to love Big Brother.
Well no.
I 'accept' that I have lost as a matter of dreadful happenstance in my lifetime, but why should I 'accept' the result of that being stuff like travel restrictions, a worse version of democracy, less collaboration and co-operation with all kinds of good EU stuff?
And the forthcoming hard border on the island of Ireland?
Incidentally I will again push back at your non-detailed critique that the EU is undemocratic. It is more democratic than the UK, which operates decidedly undemocratic practices of of it's own in house. There is absolutely no objective way that you can say that the EU is undemocratic, and repeating it won't make what you say true.
Anyway you can be happy that I know I am a loser, but don't expect me to be happy about it.
In addition, in the absence of any kind of coherent plan from the brexiters, what would there be to accept or oppose anyway?
Having the liberty to express opinion and ask questions did not stop when the referendum ballot closed, just as pro brexit people expressed opinion and asked questions before the vote. Some might even say such discourse is the very currency of 'democracy', yet you seem antagonistic towards that particular feature of 'democracy'.
I don't understand why brexiters spend so much time gawping at the reaction of us remain losers.
Maybe it is because brexiters have no clue as to what to do with their victory, so turn on remainers for not loving them enough, a useful distraction.
If the people of a country are told they have a once in a generational chance to shape the future of that country and having made that decision by a majority are thwarted by people in power who take a different view then we have a massive political crisis in the making.
At present, there is still some slight reticence on the part of the largely Remainer Government and Remainer majorities amongst both Labour and Tory MPs to overturn the referendum result outright. The discussion over the Customs Union is a stepping stone towards that end because pursuing a CU can only have two endings. One is that the EU says no, whatever form the UK proposal finally takes. The second is that the EU insists on something which we can all probably agree is pointless, membership of the Customs Union with no control over its rules or the movement of people. If the EU says no then the majorities in Parliament will say staying in the EU is better than crashing out. If the CU deal is as bad as is being proposed then the argument will be that staying in the EU is better than being a rule taker. Either way the referendum result will be directly challenged, and that is when the political crisis wil take off.
The people chose Brexit and May chose her path to appear definite then win a landslide after invoking article 50. Labour did not oppose Brexit at the last election and the result was close to a hung parliament.
That you conflate the Customs Union with the four freedoms / single market shows how mangled the whole argument is, even for those paying attention.
For the avoidance of doubt the Customs Union has nothing to do with freedom of movement. And this is perhaps why Labour has committed to the CU but not the SM as yet. CU membership is a no brainer.
The only people arguing against it are those who are afraid of an open debate, worried that their minority position will be exposed. It is true that there are remoaners about who wish to stop Brexit altogether.
And some are very keen to attack Corbyn For without Labour the battle to stay in the EU is lost. Here's the thing: we already had that vote and many accept the result. There is no majority for staying in the EU and there is no political force fighting that fight - for the neoliberals were smashed on the rocks of the Iraq war and deregulation leading to the crash.
We are in a new era now brought about by eight years of austerity and the Brexit vote. At the same time only a tiny minority wish to leave the Customs Union.
As posted before we need to get past Brexit next March, stay in the CU, and then have an adult debate about Norway(SM) vs Canada (FTA). In the meantime forget about GDP growth and take responsibility for five effing years of political uncertainty which will lead to little change.
Our only hope is that the loons in the Alt-right are crushed for a generation. They will blame remain and the establishment just as you do but if they had a genuine vision then UKIP would not have collapsed in the way it has. The death of UKIP with absorption into the Tories is step 1.
One hopes that the centre right will either squash their philosophy or walk away, thus ceding power to Labour at the next election.
Boom! Andrew Rawnsley on top form. Note the list of MPs who opposed Nick Clegg's modest attempt at reform of the Lords in 2011. Stinking, slimy hypocrites, the lot of them. How CL Brexiteers who are regulars on this thread, decent people all of them, I believe, even if I have never met them, yet, can feel that this gang of thieves can represent them, is beyond me to get my head around.
1.4m votes up for grabs is not to be sniffed at for any political party but hopefully it will ramp up the pressure in Corbyn to have a much clearer position if nothing else.
...might also move Labour towards backing a public vote* on the final deal on the table.
*not that I'd be hopeful of any sensible discussion before the vote despite all the issues that have been highlighted since 2016.
For these reasons and more this is why many take the same position as Owen Jones, Corbyn and Martin Wolf in the FT. Let membership of the EU go for it is gone and look at the different post Brexit propositions.
The transition deal lasts another two and a half years and could be extended or replaced with EEA / EFTA membership.
Replace it with nothing and the UK economy is fucked!
Labour can shift to a single market position at any time. They don't because that might be perceived as against the referendum result and it's the Government who should lead.
In other words Labour are standing in the middle of the see-saw which might tip before or after we actually leave in ten months time.
Our political process will need to be very robust to handle the tensions between various interest groups.
1.4m votes up for grabs is not to be sniffed at for any political party but hopefully it will ramp up the pressure in Corbyn to have a much clearer position if nothing else.
...might also move Labour towards backing a public vote* on the final deal on the table.
*not that I'd be hopeful of any sensible discussion before the vote despite all the issues that have been highlighted since 2016.
For these reasons and more this is why many take the same position as Owen Jones, Corbyn and Martin Wolf in the FT. Let membership of the EU go for it is gone and look at the different post Brexit propositions.
The transition deal lasts another two and a half years and could be extended or replaced with EEA / EFTA membership.
Replace it with nothing and the UK economy is fucked!
Labour can shift to a single market position at any time. They don't because that might be perceived as against the referendum result and it's the Government who should lead.
In other words Labour are standing in the middle of the see-saw which might tip before or after we actually leave in ten months time.
Our political process will need to be very robust to handle the tensions between various interest groups.
It's not a given that we can just extend the transition period that we will need, don't the EU need to agree to it first?
Mrs May promised a solution which ensured frictionless trade, enabled the UK to strike trade deals around the world and which did not result in a hard border on the island of Ireland.
"You can trust me to deliver," she wrote. "I will not let you down".
Mrs May promised a solution which ensured frictionless trade, enabled the UK to strike trade deals around the world and which did not result in a hard border on the island of Ireland.
"You can trust me to deliver," she wrote. "I will not let you down".
Mrs May promised a solution which ensured frictionless trade, enabled the UK to strike trade deals around the world and which did not result in a hard border on the island of Ireland.
"You can trust me to deliver," she wrote. "I will not let you down".
It’s potty time again !
Gove was at his ‘puke inducing’ best on the Andrew Marr Prog this morning. Full confidence in the PM, all going wonderfully well etc etc.
1.4m votes up for grabs is not to be sniffed at for any political party but hopefully it will ramp up the pressure in Corbyn to have a much clearer position if nothing else.
...might also move Labour towards backing a public vote* on the final deal on the table.
*not that I'd be hopeful of any sensible discussion before the vote despite all the issues that have been highlighted since 2016.
For these reasons and more this is why many take the same position as Owen Jones, Corbyn and Martin Wolf in the FT. Let membership of the EU go for it is gone and look at the different post Brexit propositions.
The transition deal lasts another two and a half years and could be extended or replaced with EEA / EFTA membership.
Replace it with nothing and the UK economy is fucked!
Labour can shift to a single market position at any time. They don't because that might be perceived as against the referendum result and it's the Government who should lead.
In other words Labour are standing in the middle of the see-saw which might tip before or after we actually leave in ten months time.
Our political process will need to be very robust to handle the tensions between various interest groups.
It's not a given that we can just extend the transition period that we will need, don't the EU need to agree to it first?
Of course both sides need to agree. May has agreed so far as it buys time and the EU since it means no change and continued contribution to the current cycle.
The Tories are just treading water. The point is that things change after we leave and we edge towards the 2022 election.
Hunt v Johnson now. Goodness knows why, they knew what they were voting for (well at least Boris did, maybe remainer voting Hunt is an enemy of the people).
We’re nowhere near to being out yet and it’s perfectly clear that the EU will have far more detrimental effect on you and me regular citizens for far far longer after UK leaves than it ever had in the 45 years up to the day the fuckwits voted us out.
We’re nowhere near to being out yet and it’s perfectly clear that the EU will have far more detrimental effect on you and me regular citizens for far far longer after UK leaves than it ever had in the 45 years up to the day the fuckwits voted us out.
If by that you mean that the UK having the worlds largest and progressive trading block sitting on its doorstep competing with us on the world stage while we seek to do deals with countries that don’t really give a toss about us or can deal better with the EU anyway. I make you right.
We’re nowhere near to being out yet and it’s perfectly clear that the EU will have far more detrimental effect on you and me regular citizens for far far longer after UK leaves than it ever had in the 45 years up to the day the fuckwits voted us out.
If by that you mean that the UK having the worlds largest and progressive trading block sitting on its doorstep competing with us on the world stage while we seek to do deals with countries that don’t really give a toss about us or can deal better with the EU anyway. I make you right.
Aye, who would want to trade with the world's 6th largest economy.
We’re nowhere near to being out yet and it’s perfectly clear that the EU will have far more detrimental effect on you and me regular citizens for far far longer after UK leaves than it ever had in the 45 years up to the day the fuckwits voted us out.
If by that you mean that the UK having the worlds largest and progressive trading block sitting on its doorstep competing with us on the world stage while we seek to do deals with countries that don’t really give a toss about us or can deal better with the EU anyway. I make you right.
Aye, who would want to trade with the world's 6th largest economy.
We’re nowhere near to being out yet and it’s perfectly clear that the EU will have far more detrimental effect on you and me regular citizens for far far longer after UK leaves than it ever had in the 45 years up to the day the fuckwits voted us out.
If by that you mean that the UK having the worlds largest and progressive trading block sitting on its doorstep competing with us on the world stage while we seek to do deals with countries that don’t really give a toss about us or can deal better with the EU anyway. I make you right.
Aye, who would want to trade with the world's 6th largest economy.
You're deliberately missing the point, it's not whether people will trade with us, they obviously will, it's whether we'll get a better deal than we currently get as part of the biggest trade block in the world, and if the deal is better enough to compensate for all the costs of leaving the EU.
We’re nowhere near to being out yet and it’s perfectly clear that the EU will have far more detrimental effect on you and me regular citizens for far far longer after UK leaves than it ever had in the 45 years up to the day the fuckwits voted us out.
If by that you mean that the UK having the worlds largest and progressive trading block sitting on its doorstep competing with us on the world stage while we seek to do deals with countries that don’t really give a toss about us or can deal better with the EU anyway. I make you right.
Aye, who would want to trade with the world's 6th largest economy.
Trade is only part of the brexit story. There are things like the status of people, our loss of democracy, and the forthcoming hard border in Ireland to consider.
We’re nowhere near to being out yet and it’s perfectly clear that the EU will have far more detrimental effect on you and me regular citizens for far far longer after UK leaves than it ever had in the 45 years up to the day the fuckwits voted us out.
If by that you mean that the UK having the worlds largest and progressive trading block sitting on its doorstep competing with us on the world stage while we seek to do deals with countries that don’t really give a toss about us or can deal better with the EU anyway. I make you right.
Aye, who would want to trade with the world's 6th largest economy.
Aye, you're right. We have the honour of being the sixth largest economy in the world, as consolation for no longer being part of the world's biggest economy.
So we are looking to sign a trade deal with Turkey but in order to do so Turkey expects to eventually have 'open borders' (for want of a better phrase) with the UK.
I guess every time we fall out with Europe it is our go to place for trade. Last time we did that was when Elizabeth I was excommunicated by the Pope in 1570.
Surely one of the main scare stories of the leave campaign was the belief that Turkey would join the EU and then the entire population would move to the UK.
So not just no extra £350m a week for the NHS, but the possibility of crippling it with significantly higher drug costs due to having to go cap in hand to Trump. Thanks so much guys.
So not just no extra £350m a week for the NHS, but the possibility of crippling it with significantly higher drug costs due to having to go cap in hand to Trump. Thanks so much guys.
But he has promised us a great deal. How can you not believe him.
So not just no extra £350m a week for the NHS, but the possibility of crippling it with significantly higher drug costs due to having to go cap in hand to Trump. Thanks so much guys.
It’s a bluff. We’ll just fuck him over with the threat of more expensive shortbread biscuits and tartan shawls. We hold all the cards.
We’re nowhere near to being out yet and it’s perfectly clear that the EU will have far more detrimental effect on you and me regular citizens for far far longer after UK leaves than it ever had in the 45 years up to the day the fuckwits voted us out.
If by that you mean that the UK having the worlds largest and progressive trading block sitting on its doorstep competing with us on the world stage while we seek to do deals with countries that don’t really give a toss about us or can deal better with the EU anyway. I make you right.
Aye, who would want to trade with the world's 6th largest economy.
Yet there are Brexiters who tell us we have been held back by the EU while becoming the world's 6th largest economy? I expect they are going to tell us that without the EU we would have been bigger than China, the USA and Japan...
Brexit voters knew what they were voting for. Brexit means brexit. Naysayers spout operation fear. The EU is undemocratic. Brexit means control of UK borders. Brexit means control of UK laws. Brexit means control of immigration. Brexit means making deals with places that are not the EU. Brexit is a money making opportunity for financial advisors like John Redwood and Jacob Rees Mogg. Brexit represents the end of dominance by experts, evidence and reason and ushers in the dominance of the much maligned quality of crass stupidity. Brexit means if you choose your moment you can fool enough of the people enough of the time. But mainly. Brexit means the triumph of the racists who hate foreigners. Brexit voters knew what they were voting for.
We’re nowhere near to being out yet and it’s perfectly clear that the EU will have far more detrimental effect on you and me regular citizens for far far longer after UK leaves than it ever had in the 45 years up to the day the fuckwits voted us out.
If by that you mean that the UK having the worlds largest and progressive trading block sitting on its doorstep competing with us on the world stage while we seek to do deals with countries that don’t really give a toss about us or can deal better with the EU anyway. I make you right.
Aye, who would want to trade with the world's 6th largest economy.
Yet there are Brexiters who tell us we have been held back by the EU while becoming the world's 6th largest economy? I expect they are going to tell us that without the EU we would have been bigger than China, the USA and Japan...
You forgot the plucky Germans who've managed to free themselves from the shackles and control of the evil EU to be the world's 4th largest economy for decades now...
First question from Corbyn at PMQ's today was arguably his best opening delivery ever. Like last week he won 6-0, she had no answers today beyond lamely dissing Labour, another 6-0.
Comments
No mandate to do anything was granted by the referendum, with leave ‘politicians’ changing their views throughout the campaign and since.
The advantage of the current stage of screw up is that at least no one is talking about the massive subversion of sovereignty that will happen when unelected ministers and civil servants pick and choose what laws will make up your Brexit wonderland.
https://theguardian.com/politics/2018/may/12/one-million-students-call-vote-brexit-deal
1.4m votes up for grabs is not to be sniffed at for any political party but hopefully it will ramp up the pressure in Corbyn to have a much clearer position if nothing else.
Also if this continues..
https://open-britain.co.uk/new_survey_piles_the_pressure_on_corbyn_to_back_a_people_s_vote_on_brexit
...might also move Labour towards backing a public vote* on the final deal on the table.
*not that I'd be hopeful of any sensible discussion before the vote despite all the issues that have been highlighted since 2016.
That you conflate the Customs Union with the four freedoms / single market shows how mangled the whole argument is, even for those paying attention.
For the avoidance of doubt the Customs Union has nothing to do with freedom of movement. And this is perhaps why Labour has committed to the CU but not the SM as yet. CU membership is a no brainer.
The only people arguing against it are those who are afraid of an open debate, worried that their minority position will be exposed. It is true that there are remoaners about who wish to stop Brexit altogether.
And some are very keen to attack Corbyn For without Labour the battle to stay in the EU is lost. Here's the thing: we already had that vote and many accept the result. There is no majority for staying in the EU and there is no political force fighting that fight - for the neoliberals were smashed on the rocks of the Iraq war and deregulation leading to the crash.
We are in a new era now brought about by eight years of austerity and the Brexit vote. At the same time only a tiny minority wish to leave the Customs Union.
As posted before we need to get past Brexit next March, stay in the CU, and then have an adult debate about Norway(SM) vs Canada (FTA). In the meantime forget about GDP growth and take responsibility for five effing years of political uncertainty which will lead to little change.
Our only hope is that the loons in the Alt-right are crushed for a generation. They will blame remain and the establishment just as you do but if they had a genuine vision then UKIP would not have collapsed in the way it has. The death of UKIP with absorption into the Tories is step 1.
One hopes that the centre right will either squash their philosophy or walk away, thus ceding power to Labour at the next election.
PS
Boom! Andrew Rawnsley on top form. Note the list of MPs who opposed Nick Clegg's modest attempt at reform of the Lords in 2011. Stinking, slimy hypocrites, the lot of them. How CL Brexiteers who are regulars on this thread, decent people all of them, I believe, even if I have never met them, yet, can feel that this gang of thieves can represent them, is beyond me to get my head around.
The transition deal lasts another two and a half years and could be extended or replaced with EEA / EFTA membership.
Replace it with nothing and the UK economy is fucked!
Labour can shift to a single market position at any time. They don't because that might be perceived as against the referendum result and it's the Government who should lead.
In other words Labour are standing in the middle of the see-saw which might tip before or after we actually leave in ten months time.
Our political process will need to be very robust to handle the tensions between various interest groups.
Writing in the Sunday Times,
Mrs May promised a solution which ensured frictionless trade, enabled the UK to strike trade deals around the world and which did not result in a hard border on the island of Ireland.
"You can trust me to deliver," she wrote. "I will not let you down".
It’s potty time again !
Writing in the Sunday Times,
Mrs May promised a solution which ensured frictionless trade, enabled the UK to strike trade deals around the world and which did not result in a hard border on the island of Ireland.
"You can trust me to deliver," she wrote. "I will not let you down".
It’s potty time again !
Gove was at his ‘puke inducing’ best on the Andrew Marr Prog this morning. Full confidence in the PM, all going wonderfully well etc etc.
The Tories are just treading water. The point is that things change after we leave and we edge towards the 2022 election.
Goodness knows why, they knew what they were voting for (well at least Boris did, maybe remainer voting Hunt is an enemy of the people).
Oh fuck!
I guess every time we fall out with Europe it is our go to place for trade. Last time we did that was when Elizabeth I was excommunicated by the Pope in 1570.
Surely one of the main scare stories of the leave campaign was the belief that Turkey would join the EU and then the entire population would move to the UK.
So not just no extra £350m a week for the NHS, but the possibility of crippling it with significantly higher drug costs due to having to go cap in hand to Trump. Thanks so much guys.
Oh fuck!
Brexit means brexit.
Naysayers spout operation fear.
The EU is undemocratic.
Brexit means control of UK borders.
Brexit means control of UK laws.
Brexit means control of immigration.
Brexit means making deals with places that are not the EU.
Brexit is a money making opportunity for financial advisors like John Redwood and Jacob Rees Mogg.
Brexit represents the end of dominance by experts, evidence and reason and ushers in the dominance of the much maligned quality of crass stupidity.
Brexit means if you choose your moment you can fool enough of the people enough of the time.
But mainly.
Brexit means the triumph of the racists who hate foreigners.
Brexit voters knew what they were voting for.
Like last week he won 6-0, she had no answers today beyond lamely dissing Labour, another 6-0.