Meanwhile, outside the narrow confines of a South London football team forum, it might be worth remembering the post vote headlines, such as this from the Mirror. (Consistent Labour since 1945)
Labour heartlands give huge backing to Brexit as the North votes to Leave
Labour is facing an extraordinary meltdown in its traditional heartlands as working-class areas voted 'Leave' in their droves.
Despite the party leadership and almost every Labour MP campaigning for Remain, traditional Labour areas ignored their pleas and voted to pull Britain out of the EU.
The results have piled huge pressure on Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn, with many MPs blaming him for a lacklustre campaign and for failing to connect with working class voters.
The Remain vote faced its most crushing defeat in Labour strongholds across the North East.
The disastrous results saw Labour collapse into in-fighting, with shadow cabinet minister Chris Bryant saying he felt like "punching" former leader Ed Miliband when he appeared on TV.
Others turned their fire on to the new Labour leader Mr Corbyn, who could not face a leadership challenge in the coming weeks.
“I think the leadership of the party – Jeremy primarily – struggles to communicate with our people in the north," he said.
“Many of them think he's a very principled person but don't believe what he has to say. They don't listen to him.
“If your core vote aren't listening then you're not going to win a future general election.
Wasn't there some research that demonstrated that even in 'Labour heartland' areas that voted to leave the majority of Labour voters still voted to remain. Often by a considerable margin.
Leave voters in those constituencies comprised of Tories, Kippers, the non aligned and a minority of Labour voters.
stonemuse got bored of being the 'reasonable' one and decided to stick one up the snowflakes!!! and you should just SEE how they responded!!
Mmm ... looking at the below definition, it is a very aposite description of a number of posters on here.
“Generation Snowflake, or Snowflake Generation, is a neologistic term used to characterize the young adults of the 2010s as being more prone to taking offence and less resilient than previous generations, or as being too emotionally vulnerable to cope with views that challenge their own.”
stonemuse got bored of being the 'reasonable' one and decided to stick one up the snowflakes!!! and you should just SEE how they responded!!
Mmm ... looking at the below definition, it is a very aposite description of a number of posters on here.
“Generation Snowflake, or Snowflake Generation, is a neologistic term used to characterize the young adults of the 2010s as being more prone to taking offence and less resilient than previous generations, or as being too emotionally vulnerable to cope with views that challenge their own.”
Or it’s a cop out by baby boomers and the right for being called out for their shitty attitudes
Meanwhile, outside the narrow confines of a South London football team forum, it might be worth remembering the post vote headlines, such as this from the Mirror. (Consistent Labour since 1945)
Labour heartlands give huge backing to Brexit as the North votes to Leave
Labour is facing an extraordinary meltdown in its traditional heartlands as working-class areas voted 'Leave' in their droves.
Despite the party leadership and almost every Labour MP campaigning for Remain, traditional Labour areas ignored their pleas and voted to pull Britain out of the EU.
The results have piled huge pressure on Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn, with many MPs blaming him for a lacklustre campaign and for failing to connect with working class voters.
The Remain vote faced its most crushing defeat in Labour strongholds across the North East.
The disastrous results saw Labour collapse into in-fighting, with shadow cabinet minister Chris Bryant saying he felt like "punching" former leader Ed Miliband when he appeared on TV.
Others turned their fire on to the new Labour leader Mr Corbyn, who could not face a leadership challenge in the coming weeks.
“I think the leadership of the party – Jeremy primarily – struggles to communicate with our people in the north," he said.
“Many of them think he's a very principled person but don't believe what he has to say. They don't listen to him.
“If your core vote aren't listening then you're not going to win a future general election.
Wasn't there some research that demonstrated that even in 'Labour heartland' areas that voted to leave the majority of Labour voters still voted to remain. Often by a considerable margin.
Leave voters in those constituencies comprised of Tories, Kippers, the non aligned and a minority of Labour voters.
stonemuse got bored of being the 'reasonable' one and decided to stick one up the snowflakes!!! and you should just SEE how they responded!!
Mmm ... looking at the below definition, it is a very aposite description of a number of posters on here.
“Generation Snowflake, or Snowflake Generation, is a neologistic term used to characterize the young adults of the 2010s as being more prone to taking offence and less resilient than previous generations, or as being too emotionally vulnerable to cope with views that challenge their own.”
Young?
I am definitely a rancid old git, but demand the right to be called a snowflake?
Meanwhile, outside the narrow confines of a South London football team forum, it might be worth remembering the post vote headlines, such as this from the Mirror. (Consistent Labour since 1945)
Labour heartlands give huge backing to Brexit as the North votes to Leave
Labour is facing an extraordinary meltdown in its traditional heartlands as working-class areas voted 'Leave' in their droves.
Despite the party leadership and almost every Labour MP campaigning for Remain, traditional Labour areas ignored their pleas and voted to pull Britain out of the EU.
The results have piled huge pressure on Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn, with many MPs blaming him for a lacklustre campaign and for failing to connect with working class voters.
The Remain vote faced its most crushing defeat in Labour strongholds across the North East.
The disastrous results saw Labour collapse into in-fighting, with shadow cabinet minister Chris Bryant saying he felt like "punching" former leader Ed Miliband when he appeared on TV.
Others turned their fire on to the new Labour leader Mr Corbyn, who could not face a leadership challenge in the coming weeks.
“I think the leadership of the party – Jeremy primarily – struggles to communicate with our people in the north," he said.
“Many of them think he's a very principled person but don't believe what he has to say. They don't listen to him.
“If your core vote aren't listening then you're not going to win a future general election.
Wasn't there some research that demonstrated that even in 'Labour heartland' areas that voted to leave the majority of Labour voters still voted to remain. Often by a considerable margin.
Leave voters in those constituencies comprised of Tories, Kippers, the non aligned and a minority of Labour voters.
The "Labour heartlands" of Manchester and Liverpool voted to Remain so no pleas "ignored" there. Mind you not many tories about up here. Plenty of 'kippers' and worse though.
stonemuse got bored of being the 'reasonable' one and decided to stick one up the snowflakes!!! and you should just SEE how they responded!!
Mmm ... looking at the below definition, it is a very aposite description of a number of posters on here.
“Generation Snowflake, or Snowflake Generation, is a neologistic term used to characterize the young adults of the 2010s as being more prone to taking offence and less resilient than previous generations, or as being too emotionally vulnerable to cope with views that challenge their own.”
Or it’s a cop out by baby boomers and the right for being called out for their shitty attitudes
“Baby boomers are associated with a rejection or redefinition of traditional values.”
“amongst the first to grow up genuinely expecting the world to improve with time.”
The term snowflake actually originates from the idea that millennials were raised to believe that they were special/individual/unique (like every snowflake is unique) due to prevalence of the participation culture and parental mollycoddling. It was then co-opted by the alt-right to attack young left-leaning people. Then it just became a generic insult to describe someone whose feelings are easily hurt regardless of political leaning.
stonemuse got bored of being the 'reasonable' one and decided to stick one up the snowflakes!!! and you should just SEE how they responded!!
Mmm ... looking at the below definition, it is a very aposite description of a number of posters on here.
“Generation Snowflake, or Snowflake Generation, is a neologistic term used to characterize the young adults of the 2010s as being more prone to taking offence and less resilient than previous generations, or as being too emotionally vulnerable to cope with views that challenge their own.”
Young?
I am definitely a rancid old git, but demand the right to be called a snowflake?
I do not believe that you are less resilient nor do I believe you are emotionally vulnerable.
The term snowflake actually originates from the idea that millennials were raised to believe that they were special/individual/unique (like every snowflake is unique) due to prevalence of the participation culture and parental mollycoddling. It was then co-opted by the alt-right to attack young left-leaning people. Then it just became a generic insult to describe someone whose feelings are easily hurt regardless of political leaning.
It would be a good thing if we had a gentlemanly agreement on this forum not to use the term 'snowflake' as it is utterly unhelpful and increasingly meaningless....
Unless it is used to describe a really annoying and self obsessed teenager (I know a few)
Meanwhile, outside the narrow confines of a South London football team forum, it might be worth remembering the post vote headlines, such as this from the Mirror. (Consistent Labour since 1945)
Labour heartlands give huge backing to Brexit as the North votes to Leave
Labour is facing an extraordinary meltdown in its traditional heartlands as working-class areas voted 'Leave' in their droves.
Despite the party leadership and almost every Labour MP campaigning for Remain, traditional Labour areas ignored their pleas and voted to pull Britain out of the EU.
The results have piled huge pressure on Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn, with many MPs blaming him for a lacklustre campaign and for failing to connect with working class voters.
The Remain vote faced its most crushing defeat in Labour strongholds across the North East.
The disastrous results saw Labour collapse into in-fighting, with shadow cabinet minister Chris Bryant saying he felt like "punching" former leader Ed Miliband when he appeared on TV.
Others turned their fire on to the new Labour leader Mr Corbyn, who could not face a leadership challenge in the coming weeks.
“I think the leadership of the party – Jeremy primarily – struggles to communicate with our people in the north," he said.
“Many of them think he's a very principled person but don't believe what he has to say. They don't listen to him.
“If your core vote aren't listening then you're not going to win a future general election.
Wasn't there some research that demonstrated that even in 'Labour heartland' areas that voted to leave the majority of Labour voters still voted to remain. Often by a considerable margin.
Leave voters in those constituencies comprised of Tories, Kippers, the non aligned and a minority of Labour voters.
Yes I know all that but my point was that the proportion of Labour voters who voted to leave may be considerably less than those who voted to remain in 'Labour heartland' constituencies that voted to leave!
Meanwhile, outside the narrow confines of a South London football team forum, it might be worth remembering the post vote headlines, such as this from the Mirror. (Consistent Labour since 1945)
Labour heartlands give huge backing to Brexit as the North votes to Leave
Labour is facing an extraordinary meltdown in its traditional heartlands as working-class areas voted 'Leave' in their droves.
Despite the party leadership and almost every Labour MP campaigning for Remain, traditional Labour areas ignored their pleas and voted to pull Britain out of the EU.
The results have piled huge pressure on Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn, with many MPs blaming him for a lacklustre campaign and for failing to connect with working class voters.
The Remain vote faced its most crushing defeat in Labour strongholds across the North East.
The disastrous results saw Labour collapse into in-fighting, with shadow cabinet minister Chris Bryant saying he felt like "punching" former leader Ed Miliband when he appeared on TV.
Others turned their fire on to the new Labour leader Mr Corbyn, who could not face a leadership challenge in the coming weeks.
“I think the leadership of the party – Jeremy primarily – struggles to communicate with our people in the north," he said.
“Many of them think he's a very principled person but don't believe what he has to say. They don't listen to him.
“If your core vote aren't listening then you're not going to win a future general election.
Wasn't there some research that demonstrated that even in 'Labour heartland' areas that voted to leave the majority of Labour voters still voted to remain. Often by a considerable margin.
Leave voters in those constituencies comprised of Tories, Kippers, the non aligned and a minority of Labour voters.
Yes I know all that but my point was that the proportion of Labour voters who voted to leave may be considerably less than those who voted to remain in 'Labour heartland' constituencies that voted to leave!
stonemuse got bored of being the 'reasonable' one and decided to stick one up the snowflakes!!! and you should just SEE how they responded!!
Mmm ... looking at the below definition, it is a very aposite description of a number of posters on here.
“Generation Snowflake, or Snowflake Generation, is a neologistic term used to characterize the young adults of the 2010s as being more prone to taking offence and less resilient than previous generations, or as being too emotionally vulnerable to cope with views that challenge their own.”
Or it’s a cop out by baby boomers and the right for being called out for their shitty attitudes
“Baby boomers are associated with a rejection or redefinition of traditional values.”
“amongst the first to grow up genuinely expecting the world to improve with time.”
stonemuse got bored of being the 'reasonable' one and decided to stick one up the snowflakes!!! and you should just SEE how they responded!!
Mmm ... looking at the below definition, it is a very aposite description of a number of posters on here.
“Generation Snowflake, or Snowflake Generation, is a neologistic term used to characterize the young adults of the 2010s as being more prone to taking offence and less resilient than previous generations, or as being too emotionally vulnerable to cope with views that challenge their own.”
Or it’s a cop out by baby boomers and the right for being called out for their shitty attitudes
“Baby boomers are associated with a rejection or redefinition of traditional values.”
“amongst the first to grow up genuinely expecting the world to improve with time.”
The term snowflake actually originates from the idea that millennials were raised to believe that they were special/individual/unique (like every snowflake is unique) due to prevalence of the participation culture and parental mollycoddling. It was then co-opted by the alt-right to attack young left-leaning people. Then it just became a generic insult to describe someone whose feelings are easily hurt regardless of political leaning.
It would be a good thing if we had a gentlemanly agreement on this forum not to use the term 'snowflake' as it is utterly unhelpful and increasingly meaningless....
Unless it is used to describe a really annoying and self obsessed teenager (I know a few)
I agree if we also agree to ban:
- liberal metropolitan elite - any other misuse of the term "liberal" ( Liberal in U.K. political terms refers to centre voting progressive people who think that what people do in the privacy of their own homes is their own business. Not to be confused with the American version which is anyone to the left of the Republican Right, or "neo-liberal" a crass American invention first applied - inexplicably -'to Dubya's hard right advisors. - virtue signaling
The term snowflake actually originates from the idea that millennials were raised to believe that they were special/individual/unique (like every snowflake is unique) due to prevalence of the participation culture and parental mollycoddling. It was then co-opted by the alt-right to attack young left-leaning people. Then it just became a generic insult to describe someone whose feelings are easily hurt regardless of political leaning.
It would be a good thing if we had a gentlemanly agreement on this forum not to use the term 'snowflake' as it is utterly unhelpful and increasingly meaningless....
Unless it is used to describe a really annoying and self obsessed teenager (I know a few)
I agree if we also agree to ban:
- liberal metropolitan elite - any other misuse of the term "liberal" ( Liberal in U.K. political terms refers to centre voting progressive people who think that what people do in the privacy of their own homes is their own business. Not to be confused with the American version which is anyone to the left of the Republican Right, or "neo-liberal" a crass American invention first applied - inexplicably -'to Dubya's hard right advisors. - virtue signaling
And yet the term is so appropriate for many of the fopdoodles that run our politics.
stonemuse got bored of being the 'reasonable' one and decided to stick one up the snowflakes!!! and you should just SEE how they responded!!
Mmm ... looking at the below definition, it is a very aposite description of a number of posters on here.
“Generation Snowflake, or Snowflake Generation, is a neologistic term used to characterize the young adults of the 2010s as being more prone to taking offence and less resilient than previous generations, or as being too emotionally vulnerable to cope with views that challenge their own.”
The number times you have thrown your toys out of your pram on this thread because not everyone toes the line of "let's all give Stonemuse extra slack and pretend he is making reasonable points as otherwise us Remainers will only have real nutters like Chippy to debate with", I would suggest it is a very apposite description of you!
stonemuse got bored of being the 'reasonable' one and decided to stick one up the snowflakes!!! and you should just SEE how they responded!!
Mmm ... looking at the below definition, it is a very aposite description of a number of posters on here.
“Generation Snowflake, or Snowflake Generation, is a neologistic term used to characterize the young adults of the 2010s as being more prone to taking offence and less resilient than previous generations, or as being too emotionally vulnerable to cope with views that challenge their own.”
The number times you have thrown your toys out of your pram on this thread because not everyone toes the line of "let's all give Stonemuse extra slack and pretend he is making reasonable points as otherwise us Remainers will only have real nutters like Chippy to debate with", I would suggest it is a very apposite description of you!
Typical snowflake response.
And just to be clear, @Chippycafc is not one of the posters to who I was referring as a nutter.
Can’t remember who I was thinking of now ..... mmmmmm.
stonemuse got bored of being the 'reasonable' one and decided to stick one up the snowflakes!!! and you should just SEE how they responded!!
Mmm ... looking at the below definition, it is a very aposite description of a number of posters on here.
“Generation Snowflake, or Snowflake Generation, is a neologistic term used to characterize the young adults of the 2010s as being more prone to taking offence and less resilient than previous generations, or as being too emotionally vulnerable to cope with views that challenge their own.”
The number times you have thrown your toys out of your pram on this thread because not everyone toes the line of "let's all give Stonemuse extra slack and pretend he is making reasonable points as otherwise us Remainers will only have real nutters like Chippy to debate with", I would suggest it is a very apposite description of you!
I should add that the problem with living in your little world is that you believe that anyone living outside it is a racist xenophobe.
In fact, forget the snowflake inference ... and apologies to @PragueAddick for using the term ... but you fit virtue signalling so well.
Always angry but with no real thoughts of your own. All you do is post links to the opinions of others or sling insults.
The problem with that approach is that it gives you no credence.
We are 13 months from leaving the EU (although that process could still be revoked at anytime). We are at the point where the government have to choose between a Canada option and Norway. Some believe that they can try choosing something inbetween but we cannot be sure that option exists.
It is in May's interests to keep ambiguity going as long as possible. For it is an impossible choice for her to make and either way splits her government down the middle so she wants somebody else to make it - somebody else to blame! The longer she goes on, the weaker she becomes. And the EU are leaking aspects of a paper to come out on Wednesday.
And all this allows Parliament to make decisions via amendments to bills which in turn is going to wind up the Alt-Right something rotten. The more noise they make and the more they threaten the likes of Anna Soubry, the more likely she will join social democrats on the opposition benches who want a "Brexit for jobs and the economy". Thus May can make some more speeches promising everything to everyone just to keep Soubry and others sweet. But how long is this phase going to last before the EU27 simply plonk a Canada deal on the table?
The next month might see the UK commit to staying in the Customs Union which would have the side effect of making Liam Fox and his department redundant! The situation is evolving faster and better than many envisioned. Blair, Umunna and of course our very own @PragueAddick have been calling for a second referendum but others see the challenge through a different lens. Not sure if anybody posted a link but this lecture by Fintan O'Toole has articulated a view which my untrained observations can only admire and learn from. It makes reference to a number of events and ideas which deliver some clarity about 2016 and 2017.
To this he has recently added a piece in the Guardian which is crystal clear on the Alt-Right position on Brexit, Northern Ireland and the Good Friday Agreement.
Approximately 1/3 of the electorate wish to revoke Article 50 and abort the process but the country is not really in a position to do so. The Alt-Right nationalists are not yet defeated but defeat is on its way. And it might take a generation to reconnect fully with the EU?Forcing that agenda now carries the risk of dividing the alliance between pragmatic leavers and remainers, all of whom wish to stay in the CU and SM.
That has been the line from Blair and Clegg and posted on message boards. But we have the opportunity to stay in the same orbit as Norway which is not a bad place to be as many leave voters agree.
After this, the electorate might address the clowns who have wasted five years on delivering this mess / complete waste of time. People who have allowed nationalism to dominate our politics. That is where Fintan O'Toole is looking - the progressive, social democratic agenda. The need for an umbrella rather than paying attention to the toothache of nationalism 24/7.
Sadly for O'Toole's analysis, progressive, pro EU Social Democracy is in decline across Europe and with no sign of recovering. An important aspect of why this has happened is that they have aligned themselves so closely to the EU project-which is unpopular in many sections of the historically Social Democrat white working class across Europe. But let us not let reality get in the way of wishful thinking.
Sadly for O'Toole's analysis, progressive, pro EU Social Democracy is in decline across Europe and with no sign of recovering. An important aspect of why this has happened is that they have aligned themselves so closely to the EU project-which is unpopular in many sections of the historically Social Democrat white working class across Europe. But let us not let reality get in the way of wishful thinking.
The social democratic construct has always been an alliance between middle classes and white working class. There might be theoretical differences between democratic socialist and social democrat but the pragmatic articulation via a manifesto and actual deeds tends to resolve.
The Alt-right have snaffled up to 15% in the polls across Europe and that has been taken directly from progressive democrats - and the reasons are well understood. Globalisation, stagnation of ordinary wages, and neoliberal approach to deregulation and privatisation. The white working class have had no benefits from the boost in GDP since no attention has gone on productivity. Outsourcing is always quicker and cheaper.
Throughout this thread you and I have recognised the source of the anger and energy supporting a leave vote. The last generation of social democrats such as Clegg and Blair are part of the cause so they really should take a back seat.
And as the centre has been hollowed out in UK politics (as it has in N.Ireland) we are dealing in high energy, high risk scenarios where the winner takes all. So yes the PD vote in Italy and the SPD in Germany is down but there is a populist left in both Spain and France.
More importantly western European centre left parties are in decline but Labour in the UK is polling above 40% for nine months now. And if the Tories screw up Brexit, Labour will win the next election. Given all the angles, how can the Tories not screw it up?!
stonemuse got bored of being the 'reasonable' one and decided to stick one up the snowflakes!!! and you should just SEE how they responded!!
Mmm ... looking at the below definition, it is a very aposite description of a number of posters on here.
“Generation Snowflake, or Snowflake Generation, is a neologistic term used to characterize the young adults of the 2010s as being more prone to taking offence and less resilient than previous generations, or as being too emotionally vulnerable to cope with views that challenge their own.”
The number times you have thrown your toys out of your pram on this thread because not everyone toes the line of "let's all give Stonemuse extra slack and pretend he is making reasonable points as otherwise us Remainers will only have real nutters like Chippy to debate with", I would suggest it is a very apposite description of you!
I should add that the problem with living in your little world is that you believe that anyone living outside it is a racist xenophobe.
In fact, forget the snowflake inference ... and apologies to @PragueAddick for using the term ... but you fit virtue signalling so well.
Always angry but with no real thoughts of your own. All you do is post links to the opinions of others or sling insults.
The problem with that approach is that it gives you no credence.
I am pretty sure I know what "what virtue signalling" means and also pretty certain none of my posts could be described as such. Perhaps you could provide evidence.
You, on the other hand, are constantly trying to make the case that you are open to debate, willing to read links and posts from both sides, that you are reasonable. Classic 'virtue signalling' traits based on my reading of the wiki definition.
Most people who know me personally, and people on here who have read my posts on the political threads over the last few years, view me as an aggressively over opinionated twat. On here, over recent years, and particularly on the Brexit threads, I have tried to tone it down a bit which is why I am more likely to post links to articles written by experienced commentators, experts and business people than try and articulate my own very strong views.
The only reason I am here expressing my views again is because you posted a link to an article written by some crazy right wing Briebart contributing journalist for the sole purpose, by your own admission, of getting a reaction from the "usual nutters". Well, you succeeded. And I think that also means you are a Troll!
Sadly for O'Toole's analysis, progressive, pro EU Social Democracy is in decline across Europe and with no sign of recovering. An important aspect of why this has happened is that they have aligned themselves so closely to the EU project-which is unpopular in many sections of the historically Social Democrat white working class across Europe. But let us not let reality get in the way of wishful thinking.
Reality? Are you claiming command of the concept of reality? Are you defining what is political and social reality across Europe? Quite a claim if you are.
Comments
Leave voters in those constituencies comprised of Tories, Kippers, the non aligned and a minority of Labour voters.
Note to self ... stop being reasonable and stir things up a bit
“Generation Snowflake, or Snowflake Generation, is a neologistic term used to characterize the young adults of the 2010s as being more prone to taking offence and less resilient than previous generations, or as being too emotionally vulnerable to cope with views that challenge their own.”
https://medium.com/@chrishanretty/most-labour-mps-represent-a-constituency-that-voted-leave-36f13210f5c6
I am definitely a rancid old git, but demand the right to be called a snowflake?
“amongst the first to grow up genuinely expecting the world to improve with time.”
Unless it is used to describe a really annoying and self obsessed teenager (I know a few)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p05ywckw
- liberal metropolitan elite
- any other misuse of the term "liberal" ( Liberal in U.K. political terms refers to centre voting progressive people who think that what people do in the privacy of their own homes is their own business. Not to be confused with the American version which is anyone to the left of the Republican Right, or "neo-liberal" a crass American invention first applied - inexplicably -'to Dubya's hard right advisors.
- virtue signaling
And just to be clear, @Chippycafc is not one of the posters to who I was referring as a nutter.
Can’t remember who I was thinking of now ..... mmmmmm.
In fact, forget the snowflake inference ... and apologies to @PragueAddick for using the term ... but you fit virtue signalling so well.
Always angry but with no real thoughts of your own. All you do is post links to the opinions of others or sling insults.
The problem with that approach is that it gives you no credence.
We are 13 months from leaving the EU (although that process could still be revoked at anytime). We are at the point where the government have to choose between a Canada option and Norway. Some believe that they can try choosing something inbetween but we cannot be sure that option exists.
It is in May's interests to keep ambiguity going as long as possible. For it is an impossible choice for her to make and either way splits her government down the middle so she wants somebody else to make it - somebody else to blame! The longer she goes on, the weaker she becomes. And the EU are leaking aspects of a paper to come out on Wednesday.
And all this allows Parliament to make decisions via amendments to bills which in turn is going to wind up the Alt-Right something rotten. The more noise they make and the more they threaten the likes of Anna Soubry, the more likely she will join social democrats on the opposition benches who want a "Brexit for jobs and the economy". Thus May can make some more speeches promising everything to everyone just to keep Soubry and others sweet. But how long is this phase going to last before the EU27 simply plonk a Canada deal on the table?
The next month might see the UK commit to staying in the Customs Union which would have the side effect of making Liam Fox and his department redundant! The situation is evolving faster and better than many envisioned. Blair, Umunna and of course our very own @PragueAddick have been calling for a second referendum but others see the challenge through a different lens. Not sure if anybody posted a link but this lecture by Fintan O'Toole has articulated a view which my untrained observations can only admire and learn from. It makes reference to a number of events and ideas which deliver some clarity about 2016 and 2017.
To this he has recently added a piece in the Guardian which is crystal clear on the Alt-Right position on Brexit, Northern Ireland and the Good Friday Agreement.
Approximately 1/3 of the electorate wish to revoke Article 50 and abort the process but the country is not really in a position to do so. The Alt-Right nationalists are not yet defeated but defeat is on its way. And it might take a generation to reconnect fully with the EU?Forcing that agenda now carries the risk of dividing the alliance between pragmatic leavers and remainers, all of whom wish to stay in the CU and SM.
That has been the line from Blair and Clegg and posted on message boards. But we have the opportunity to stay in the same orbit as Norway which is not a bad place to be as many leave voters agree.
After this, the electorate might address the clowns who have wasted five years on delivering this mess / complete waste of time. People who have allowed nationalism to dominate our politics. That is where Fintan O'Toole is looking - the progressive, social democratic agenda. The need for an umbrella rather than paying attention to the toothache of nationalism 24/7.
The Alt-right have snaffled up to 15% in the polls across Europe and that has been taken directly from progressive democrats - and the reasons are well understood. Globalisation, stagnation of ordinary wages, and neoliberal approach to deregulation and privatisation. The white working class have had no benefits from the boost in GDP since no attention has gone on productivity. Outsourcing is always quicker and cheaper.
Throughout this thread you and I have recognised the source of the anger and energy supporting a leave vote. The last generation of social democrats such as Clegg and Blair are part of the cause so they really should take a back seat.
And as the centre has been hollowed out in UK politics (as it has in N.Ireland) we are dealing in high energy, high risk scenarios where the winner takes all. So yes the PD vote in Italy and the SPD in Germany is down but there is a populist left in both Spain and France.
More importantly western European centre left parties are in decline but Labour in the UK is polling above 40% for nine months now. And if the Tories screw up Brexit, Labour will win the next election. Given all the angles, how can the Tories not screw it up?!
You, on the other hand, are constantly trying to make the case that you are open to debate, willing to read links and posts from both sides, that you are reasonable. Classic 'virtue signalling' traits based on my reading of the wiki definition.
Most people who know me personally, and people on here who have read my posts on the political threads over the last few years, view me as an aggressively over opinionated twat. On here, over recent years, and particularly on the Brexit threads, I have tried to tone it down a bit which is why I am more likely to post links to articles written by experienced commentators, experts and business people than try and articulate my own very strong views.
The only reason I am here expressing my views again is because you posted a link to an article written by some crazy right wing Briebart contributing journalist for the sole purpose, by your own admission, of getting a reaction from the "usual nutters". Well, you succeeded. And I think that also means you are a Troll!
Are you claiming command of the concept of reality? Are you defining what is political and social reality across Europe?
Quite a claim if you are.