Marina Hyde takes apart Farage's sudden conversion to a second referendum, not to mention his new fedora. Don't miss the reference to Oyston, and the excellent soundbite from an EU diplomat.
Very good. She has certainly nailed him there. The Bannon references are particularly spot on.
So UK lorry drivers particulars won't be valid in the EU after leaving, and EU ones presumably won't be valid in the UK. How is that resolved? How is that resolved without thorough border checks? Will the M20 stack up back to Sidcup?
Presumably we agree to reciprocally honour each other's documents as part of the exit deal?
Yep. This will I suspect be one of a number of things that won't change much after brexit (free movement of people I'll bet is one of them!)
rel="PragueAddick">Marina Hyde takes apart Farage's sudden conversion to a second referendum, not to mention his new fedora. Don't miss the reference to Oyston, and the excellent soundbite from an EU diplomat.
rel="PragueAddick">Marina Hyde takes apart Farage's sudden conversion to a second referendum, not to mention his new fedora. Don't miss the reference to Oyston, and the excellent soundbite from an EU diplomat.
So UK lorry drivers particulars won't be valid in the EU after leaving, and EU ones presumably won't be valid in the UK. How is that resolved? How is that resolved without thorough border checks? Will the M20 stack up back to Sidcup?
Presumably we agree to reciprocally honour each other's documents as part of the exit deal?
However it is worth being mindful that the UK has talked about leaving with no deal.
This week David Davis was going on about the EU preparing for a no deal scenario, the EU helpfully mentioning that they had been given the heads up on this by watching the UK politicians repeatedly going on about no deal at all. You have to laugh at David Davis surprise on this, bless him, he's such a useless dork.
So anyway, no deal so presumably no automatic reciprocity on the documents.
What then, ta dah, border checks in some form here there and everywhere?
Which brings us back to the notion that there's gotta be a deal, or some sort, hasn't there, like no deal at all is beyond comprehension, dum dum daaaah...or is it?
It would all be soooooo different if Theresa May had voted leave
Read the context - "The Germans think Brexit is just more British madness" - like they have never done anything mad in their history. Simple as that.
There is nothing "inappropriate" about historical fact i'm afraid, just like English slave traders in the 18th Century, the American treatment of Red Indians, the imprisonment of Mandela, or the genocide in Srebrenica. As nasty as these things were - one cannot rewrite history, and nor can Germany.
I want a referendum about whether we should have any more referenda - just like the Swiss did a few decades back. Problem would be if it was 52-48 either way, folk would say it doesn't count. Then they would want to add-in the people who couldn't be bothered to vote (or had no preference) and say it wasn't representative of the population.
Any referendum we have in the future could be questioned in this way, even a referendum about how we should view the result of a referendum.
This is what would make the UK a laughing stock - not leaving the EU, and as for the Germans thinking we are mad, they are the guys that tried to exterminate all foreigners in their country and then a generation later invited foreigners to come and live there. Now, that is real madness.
I think there is a fairly large part of the British population who think about World War 2 at least three times a day and for whom national pride is built on a foundation of Vera Lyn songs and Winston Churchill quotes.
Erm.........yeah, possibly, probably, maybe, maybe not...........but what of it ?
I want a referendum about whether we should have any more referenda - just like the Swiss did a few decades back. Problem would be if it was 52-48 either way, folk would say it doesn't count. Then they would want to add-in the people who couldn't be bothered to vote (or had no preference) and say it wasn't representative of the population.
Any referendum we have in the future could be questioned in this way, even a referendum about how we should view the result of a referendum.
This is what would make the UK a laughing stock - not leaving the EU, and as for the Germans thinking we are mad, they are the guys that tried to exterminate all foreigners in their country and then a generation later invited foreigners to come and live there. Now, that is real madness.
I think there is a fairly large part of the British population who think about World War 2 at least three times a day and for whom national pride is built on a foundation of Vera Lyn songs and Winston Churchill quotes.
Erm.........yeah, possibly, probably, maybe, maybe not...........but what of it ?
It's because those handful of headline Brexiters are in thrall with the tabloids and the oligarchs who fund the Tory party and form the fourth estate that are the real power in this country and are formed more or less exclusively of Brexiters.
No doubt they have something on May which is why so she is so paralysed. Fields of wheat are clearly the least of her problems.
They don't need anything on May particularly, she is desperate to hold onto power, and they presumably hold to power to at the very least trigger a leadership battle that she would struggle to win.
Interesting article and a rare factual one rather than hysterical on Brexit from this publication.
Many brexitiers have been concerned about these type of manoeuvrings since the referendum. Once again, we have our politicians giving the majority voters a big 'up yours'.
I wonder how some will react to this if it comes to pass? This could lead to a significant percentage of the 17.4m looking for more extreme political representation in frustration, which would be bad for everybody.
Read the context - "The Germans think Brexit is just more British madness" - like they have never done anything mad in their history. Simple as that.
There is nothing "inappropriate" about historical fact i'm afraid, just like English slave traders in the 18th Century, the American treatment of Red Indians, the imprisonment of Mandela, or the genocide in Srebrenica. As nasty as these things were - one cannot rewrite history, and nor can Germany.
Since it's fairly quiet, I'd like to post that I finally finished "Adults in the Room" by the Greek ex finance minister Yanis Varoufakis. It was recommended by @Dippenhall, who overall presented it as evidence for his anti-EU stance. Actually it is worth reading the review I posted in the link, as I think it sums up the contradictions in the book admirably. For now, in case anyone assumed that YV is a supporter of @Dippenhall viewpoint, I have the following observations
1. YV, who campaigned for Remain, confirms he is still an ardent pro EU person. 2. His main criticism is reserved for "The Troika". That is not an EU institution. 3. I agree with Dippenhall that YV comes across as a person of extraordinary courage and resilience. 4. I agree that in economic terms the Troika's approach to the Greek crisis was wrong, and some of the individuals involved need to be held to account. His book may play a role in this, albeit we need to be sure that all the long verbatim quotes allegedly from his recording machine are pukka(none of them knew he was recording everything?) 5. Varoufakis has the misfortune to be Greek. His patriotism and tributes to the courage and resilience of Greeks is heartwarming. However: 6. He brushes aside any examination of how Greece got itself in this mess in the first place. He refers sometimes to a "Greek oligarchy". He does not concede that tax evasion and corruption has been endemic in Greek society, to the extent that even my Bulgarian friends laugh with contempt about doing business with their neighbours. 7. If the behaviour of the mainstream media is as he describes it, he also needs to ask himself about the overall quality and integrity of public discourse in this society with such a proud history. The courageous Greek people are also the people who staff the media. They are the people who menaced him and started to physically attack him outside the restaurant. They are the people who voted for Golden Dawn. 8. And the point about these societal/sociological aspects, which Dippenhall often fails to consider, if I may say so, is that a large chunk of Europe, both politicians and citizens, knew this. That is why Schauble's simple - simplistic and inflexible too - message of Thatcher-style thriftiness had wider support. 9. But watch for his references to Macron. The book finishes before he is elected as President, so his role is as Economics Minister. That is really, really intriguing. Macron may well turn out to be a game-changer for Europe.
Interesting article and a rare factual one rather than hysterical on Brexit from this publication.
Many brexitiers have been concerned about these type of manoeuvrings since the referendum. Once again, we have our politicians giving the majority voters a big 'up yours'.
I wonder how some will react to this if it comes to pass? This could lead to a significant percentage of the 17.4m looking for more extreme political representation in frustration, which would be bad for everybody.
The related article by Andrew Rawnsley calmly answers your point. He maps out the various reasons "How and why Britain might be asked to vote once more on Brexit". In aprticular it is worth considering this passage:
There are some identifiable trends in public opinion. Since Mrs May triggered article 50, there has been a downward movement in the proportion of voters who think the government is making a good fist of the Brexit negotiations. This is not surprising when so many of the Leavers’ promises, including the fantasy about it being child’s play to negotiate and the fib that there would be a massive windfall for the NHS, have been proved false. Levels of public anxiety about where Britain will be left by withdrawal have been rising. The numbers thinking we will be worse off out of the EU have gone up a bit and the numbers thinking we will be better off are down a bit. There are now fewer voters who think Brexit will increase Britain’s influence in the world and more voters who think it will diminish our global clout. There has also been a gentle rise in the proportion of voters who say they favour another referendum, though they are still outnumbered by those who don’t want one.
On the Leave/Remain question itself, opinion is still finely balanced. The polling company YouGov runs a useful tracker on this question. The most recent result has 46% thinking Brexit was the wrong choice, against 42% who say it was the right one. That suggests there is some buyer’s remorse, but not yet enough of it to induce a shift in the positions of the decisive political players. Public opinion will have to shift more dramatically before any of the politicians in a position of influence will be willing to act.
This does not surprise me at all. Not all those who voted leave are as ardent and stubborn as those on here who appear most regularly. Furthermore, as I argued at the time, the real problems of leaving, both in terms of the sheer scale of what we are giving up, and the economic consequences of doing so, would only slowly become apparent to the disengaged majority.
I don't think that YouGov poll will get to 60:40 by October, but I believe will show steady progress as people become clearer about just what it means. If it breaches say 56:44 what will be your argument about "the will of the people" then? Will you continue just to mutter darkly about the possibility that some extremists will resort to violence? I hope not. We already have one dead MP.
Interesting article and a rare factual one rather than hysterical on Brexit from this publication.
Many brexitiers have been concerned about these type of manoeuvrings since the referendum. Once again, we have our politicians giving the majority voters a big 'up yours'.
I wonder how some will react to this if it comes to pass? This could lead to a significant percentage of the 17.4m looking for more extreme political representation in frustration, which would be bad for everybody.
I think you may be right. This was a decent article, but makes me think that most MPs never wanted to leave the EU, and still don't want to, and that the whole brexit fiasco started off as nothing more than an internal Tory squabble that has gone entirely out of hand
I want a referendum about whether we should have any more referenda - just like the Swiss did a few decades back. Problem would be if it was 52-48 either way, folk would say it doesn't count. Then they would want to add-in the people who couldn't be bothered to vote (or had no preference) and say it wasn't representative of the population.
Any referendum we have in the future could be questioned in this way, even a referendum about how we should view the result of a referendum.
This is what would make the UK a laughing stock - not leaving the EU, and as for the Germans thinking we are mad, they are the guys that tried to exterminate all foreigners in their country and then a generation later invited foreigners to come and live there. Now, that is real madness.
I think there is a fairly large part of the British population who think about World War 2 at least three times a day and for whom national pride is built on a foundation of Vera Lyn songs and Winston Churchill quotes.
Erm.........yeah, possibly, probably, maybe, maybe not...........but what of it ?
I'm on your side mate but you can't win on here.
Totally agree, your pissing in the wind, they will just troll every nook and cranny and dig up experts no-ones heard off to berate their bias view. Just hit the lol button The fact that one poster answers himself under a different screen name is proof enough, but no-one takes him to task over this weird behaviour.
Surely the debate has moved on from leave or remain.
The UK had the damn referendum and in those terms leave won. That chapter is written. Done.
What we have now is for the leavers, the winners to sort out the detail themselves.
It is not for remainers to talk up the country, it is not for the EU to lead on this, it is not for the EU to be flexible or creative, it is not for the EU to initiate a 'bespoke' deal for the UK, it is not for the EU to go against their rules and procedures. We are in an action and reaction situation.
Those who voted leave must supply all the answers or at the very least suggest some for the EU to consider, absolutely not the other way round.
What is frustrating is that leavers won the vote and narry a one of them knows what to do with it.
No politicians out there, and sadly no posters on here are able to engage with the detail of it all. No solution to long term residency around the place, no solution to the Irish border, no solution to the air travel issue, no solution to lorry drivers documentation, no solution to security matters, no solution to common environmental concerns, no solution to common academic enterprises, no solution to the situation regarding medicine. No solutions, no suggestions either.
There will be leavers reading this and laughing. Laughing at my frustration is a good diversion from confronting their own ignorance and abdication of their responsibilities for what they have done. It is easier to have a hissy fit about being called thick little Englanders than to get on with the job of solving all the problems associated with leaving.
For the hundredth time leave voters, supply some detailed answers. Start with your carefully thought through solution to the border on the island of Ireland, you apparently knew what to do when you voted, tell the world.
Read the context - "The Germans think Brexit is just more British madness" - like they have never done anything mad in their history. Simple as that.
There is nothing "inappropriate" about historical fact i'm afraid, just like English slave traders in the 18th Century, the American treatment of Red Indians, the imprisonment of Mandela, or the genocide in Srebrenica. As nasty as these things were - one cannot rewrite history, and nor can Germany.
When you are in a hole stop digging.
I’ll let the Washington Redskins know before their next game.
Read the context - "The Germans think Brexit is just more British madness" - like they have never done anything mad in their history. Simple as that.
There is nothing "inappropriate" about historical fact i'm afraid, just like English slave traders in the 18th Century, the American treatment of Red Indians, the imprisonment of Mandela, or the genocide in Srebrenica. As nasty as these things were - one cannot rewrite history, and nor can Germany.
When you are in a hole stop digging.
I’ll let the Washington Redskins know before their next game.
Washington Redskins are under pressure from the media and public to drop the derogatory "redskins" from their name. The more politically term is either Native Americans or First Nations' Peoples.
Seth you keep repeating the same, 'let them get on with it' mantra. But frankly, as funny as that would be, this about our future. I don't want our future prospects to be made significantly worse because we allowed them to plough on with Brexit madness. I want to find a way of stopping this shit show. The first duty of any government is to protect its citizens, all the time the government pursues this nonsense we have a government that is failing in its key objective. Someone needs to find a way of hitting the 'stop' button before it's too late.
I want a referendum about whether we should have any more referenda - just like the Swiss did a few decades back. Problem would be if it was 52-48 either way, folk would say it doesn't count. Then they would want to add-in the people who couldn't be bothered to vote (or had no preference) and say it wasn't representative of the population.
Any referendum we have in the future could be questioned in this way, even a referendum about how we should view the result of a referendum.
This is what would make the UK a laughing stock - not leaving the EU, and as for the Germans thinking we are mad, they are the guys that tried to exterminate all foreigners in their country and then a generation later invited foreigners to come and live there. Now, that is real madness.
I think there is a fairly large part of the British population who think about World War 2 at least three times a day and for whom national pride is built on a foundation of Vera Lyn songs and Winston Churchill quotes.
Erm.........yeah, possibly, probably, maybe, maybe not...........but what of it ?
I'm on your side mate but you can't win on here.
Totally agree, your pissing in the wind, they will just troll every nook and cranny and dig up experts no-ones heard off to berate their bias view. Just hit the lol button The fact that one poster answers himself under a different screen name is proof enough, but no-one takes him to task over this weird behaviour.
I want a referendum about whether we should have any more referenda - just like the Swiss did a few decades back. Problem would be if it was 52-48 either way, folk would say it doesn't count. Then they would want to add-in the people who couldn't be bothered to vote (or had no preference) and say it wasn't representative of the population.
Any referendum we have in the future could be questioned in this way, even a referendum about how we should view the result of a referendum.
This is what would make the UK a laughing stock - not leaving the EU, and as for the Germans thinking we are mad, they are the guys that tried to exterminate all foreigners in their country and then a generation later invited foreigners to come and live there. Now, that is real madness.
I think there is a fairly large part of the British population who think about World War 2 at least three times a day and for whom national pride is built on a foundation of Vera Lyn songs and Winston Churchill quotes.
Erm.........yeah, possibly, probably, maybe, maybe not...........but what of it ?
I'm on your side mate but you can't win on here.
Totally agree, your pissing in the wind, they will just troll every nook and cranny and dig up experts no-ones heard off to berate their bias view. Just hit the lol button The fact that one poster answers himself under a different screen name is proof enough, but no-one takes him to task over this weird behaviour.
I want a referendum about whether we should have any more referenda - just like the Swiss did a few decades back. Problem would be if it was 52-48 either way, folk would say it doesn't count. Then they would want to add-in the people who couldn't be bothered to vote (or had no preference) and say it wasn't representative of the population.
Any referendum we have in the future could be questioned in this way, even a referendum about how we should view the result of a referendum.
This is what would make the UK a laughing stock - not leaving the EU, and as for the Germans thinking we are mad, they are the guys that tried to exterminate all foreigners in their country and then a generation later invited foreigners to come and live there. Now, that is real madness.
I think there is a fairly large part of the British population who think about World War 2 at least three times a day and for whom national pride is built on a foundation of Vera Lyn songs and Winston Churchill quotes.
Erm.........yeah, possibly, probably, maybe, maybe not...........but what of it ?
I'm on your side mate but you can't win on here.
Totally agree, your pissing in the wind, they will just troll every nook and cranny and dig up experts no-ones heard off to berate their bias view. Just hit the lol button The fact that one poster answers himself under a different screen name is proof enough, but no-one takes him to task over this weird behaviour.
I want a referendum about whether we should have any more referenda - just like the Swiss did a few decades back. Problem would be if it was 52-48 either way, folk would say it doesn't count. Then they would want to add-in the people who couldn't be bothered to vote (or had no preference) and say it wasn't representative of the population.
Any referendum we have in the future could be questioned in this way, even a referendum about how we should view the result of a referendum.
This is what would make the UK a laughing stock - not leaving the EU, and as for the Germans thinking we are mad, they are the guys that tried to exterminate all foreigners in their country and then a generation later invited foreigners to come and live there. Now, that is real madness.
I think there is a fairly large part of the British population who think about World War 2 at least three times a day and for whom national pride is built on a foundation of Vera Lyn songs and Winston Churchill quotes.
Erm.........yeah, possibly, probably, maybe, maybe not...........but what of it ?
I'm on your side mate but you can't win on here.
Totally agree, your pissing in the wind, they will just troll every nook and cranny and dig up experts no-ones heard off to berate their bias view. Just hit the lol button The fact that one poster answers himself under a different screen name is proof enough, but no-one takes him to task over this weird behaviour.
I want a referendum about whether we should have any more referenda - just like the Swiss did a few decades back. Problem would be if it was 52-48 either way, folk would say it doesn't count. Then they would want to add-in the people who couldn't be bothered to vote (or had no preference) and say it wasn't representative of the population.
Any referendum we have in the future could be questioned in this way, even a referendum about how we should view the result of a referendum.
This is what would make the UK a laughing stock - not leaving the EU, and as for the Germans thinking we are mad, they are the guys that tried to exterminate all foreigners in their country and then a generation later invited foreigners to come and live there. Now, that is real madness.
I think there is a fairly large part of the British population who think about World War 2 at least three times a day and for whom national pride is built on a foundation of Vera Lyn songs and Winston Churchill quotes.
Erm.........yeah, possibly, probably, maybe, maybe not...........but what of it ?
I'm on your side mate but you can't win on here.
Totally agree, your pissing in the wind, they will just troll every nook and cranny and dig up experts no-ones heard off to berate their bias view. Just hit the lol button The fact that one poster answers himself under a different screen name is proof enough, but no-one takes him to task over this weird behaviour.
I’m confused now Chippy. Who?
Go back and read... I have said so before.
Are you saying Ibborg and Fanny are the same person. )
I want a referendum about whether we should have any more referenda - just like the Swiss did a few decades back. Problem would be if it was 52-48 either way, folk would say it doesn't count. Then they would want to add-in the people who couldn't be bothered to vote (or had no preference) and say it wasn't representative of the population.
Any referendum we have in the future could be questioned in this way, even a referendum about how we should view the result of a referendum.
This is what would make the UK a laughing stock - not leaving the EU, and as for the Germans thinking we are mad, they are the guys that tried to exterminate all foreigners in their country and then a generation later invited foreigners to come and live there. Now, that is real madness.
I think there is a fairly large part of the British population who think about World War 2 at least three times a day and for whom national pride is built on a foundation of Vera Lyn songs and Winston Churchill quotes.
Erm.........yeah, possibly, probably, maybe, maybe not...........but what of it ?
I'm on your side mate but you can't win on here.
Totally agree, your pissing in the wind, they will just troll every nook and cranny and dig up experts no-ones heard off to berate their bias view. Just hit the lol button The fact that one poster answers himself under a different screen name is proof enough, but no-one takes him to task over this weird behaviour.
Comments
Whose she
A very perceptive lady.
This week David Davis was going on about the EU preparing for a no deal scenario, the EU helpfully mentioning that they had been given the heads up on this by watching the UK politicians repeatedly going on about no deal at all. You have to laugh at David Davis surprise on this, bless him, he's such a useless dork.
So anyway, no deal so presumably no automatic reciprocity on the documents.
What then, ta dah, border checks in some form here there and everywhere?
Which brings us back to the notion that there's gotta be a deal, or some sort, hasn't there, like no deal at all is beyond comprehension, dum dum daaaah...or is it?
It would all be soooooo different if Theresa May had voted leave
@PragueAddick
@Chaz Hill
Insults on this thread, or indeed on any thread are unnecessary.
Sad to see you guy/s do it / condone it.
@Fiiish
Read the context -
"The Germans think Brexit is just more British madness" - like they have never done anything mad in their history. Simple as that.
There is nothing "inappropriate" about historical fact i'm afraid, just like English slave traders in the 18th Century, the American treatment of Red Indians, the imprisonment of Mandela, or the genocide in Srebrenica. As nasty as these things were - one cannot rewrite history, and nor can Germany.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jan/13/nigel-farage-rattled-peers-brexit-struggle-now-beginning?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
Many brexitiers have been concerned about these type of manoeuvrings since the referendum. Once again, we have our politicians giving the majority voters a big 'up yours'.
I wonder how some will react to this if it comes to pass? This could lead to a significant percentage of the 17.4m looking for more extreme political representation in frustration, which would be bad for everybody.
1. YV, who campaigned for Remain, confirms he is still an ardent pro EU person.
2. His main criticism is reserved for "The Troika". That is not an EU institution.
3. I agree with Dippenhall that YV comes across as a person of extraordinary courage and resilience.
4. I agree that in economic terms the Troika's approach to the Greek crisis was wrong, and some of the individuals involved need to be held to account. His book may play a role in this, albeit we need to be sure that all the long verbatim quotes allegedly from his recording machine are pukka(none of them knew he was recording everything?)
5. Varoufakis has the misfortune to be Greek. His patriotism and tributes to the courage and resilience of Greeks is heartwarming. However:
6. He brushes aside any examination of how Greece got itself in this mess in the first place. He refers sometimes to a "Greek oligarchy". He does not concede that tax evasion and corruption has been endemic in Greek society, to the extent that even my Bulgarian friends laugh with contempt about doing business with their neighbours.
7. If the behaviour of the mainstream media is as he describes it, he also needs to ask himself about the overall quality and integrity of public discourse in this society with such a proud history. The courageous Greek people are also the people who staff the media. They are the people who menaced him and started to physically attack him outside the restaurant. They are the people who voted for Golden Dawn.
8. And the point about these societal/sociological aspects, which Dippenhall often fails to consider, if I may say so, is that a large chunk of Europe, both politicians and citizens, knew this. That is why Schauble's simple - simplistic and inflexible too - message of Thatcher-style thriftiness had wider support.
9. But watch for his references to Macron. The book finishes before he is elected as President, so his role is as Economics Minister. That is really, really intriguing. Macron may well turn out to be a game-changer for Europe.
There are some identifiable trends in public opinion. Since Mrs May triggered article 50, there has been a downward movement in the proportion of voters who think the government is making a good fist of the Brexit negotiations. This is not surprising when so many of the Leavers’ promises, including the fantasy about it being child’s play to negotiate and the fib that there would be a massive windfall for the NHS, have been proved false. Levels of public anxiety about where Britain will be left by withdrawal have been rising. The numbers thinking we will be worse off out of the EU have gone up a bit and the numbers thinking we will be better off are down a bit. There are now fewer voters who think Brexit will increase Britain’s influence in the world and more voters who think it will diminish our global clout. There has also been a gentle rise in the proportion of voters who say they favour another referendum, though they are still outnumbered by those who don’t want one.
On the Leave/Remain question itself, opinion is still finely balanced. The polling company YouGov runs a useful tracker on this question. The most recent result has 46% thinking Brexit was the wrong choice, against 42% who say it was the right one. That suggests there is some buyer’s remorse, but not yet enough of it to induce a shift in the positions of the decisive political players. Public opinion will have to shift more dramatically before any of the politicians in a position of influence will be willing to act.
This does not surprise me at all. Not all those who voted leave are as ardent and stubborn as those on here who appear most regularly. Furthermore, as I argued at the time, the real problems of leaving, both in terms of the sheer scale of what we are giving up, and the economic consequences of doing so, would only slowly become apparent to the disengaged majority.
I don't think that YouGov poll will get to 60:40 by October, but I believe will show steady progress as people become clearer about just what it means. If it breaches say 56:44 what will be your argument about "the will of the people" then? Will you continue just to mutter darkly about the possibility that some extremists will resort to violence? I hope not. We already have one dead MP.
The UK had the damn referendum and in those terms leave won. That chapter is written. Done.
What we have now is for the leavers, the winners to sort out the detail themselves.
It is not for remainers to talk up the country, it is not for the EU to lead on this, it is not for the EU to be flexible or creative, it is not for the EU to initiate a 'bespoke' deal for the UK, it is not for the EU to go against their rules and procedures. We are in an action and reaction situation.
Those who voted leave must supply all the answers or at the very least suggest some for the EU to consider, absolutely not the other way round.
What is frustrating is that leavers won the vote and narry a one of them knows what to do with it.
No politicians out there, and sadly no posters on here are able to engage with the detail of it all. No solution to long term residency around the place, no solution to the Irish border, no solution to the air travel issue, no solution to lorry drivers documentation, no solution to security matters, no solution to common environmental concerns, no solution to common academic enterprises, no solution to the situation regarding medicine. No solutions, no suggestions either.
There will be leavers reading this and laughing. Laughing at my frustration is a good diversion from confronting their own ignorance and abdication of their responsibilities for what they have done. It is easier to have a hissy fit about being called thick little Englanders than to get on with the job of solving all the problems associated with leaving.
For the hundredth time leave voters, supply some detailed answers. Start with your carefully thought through solution to the border on the island of Ireland, you apparently knew what to do when you voted, tell the world.