This is literally the only way this can get worse now.
Surely.
--------------------------
Typically when the Conservatives are royally messing everything up, a few try to turn things around on Labour.
The whole problem with Brexit and politics in this country is the appalling low level and negative debate that leaves nothing debated properly. The Brexit mess is another perfect example of how poor policy results from the utterly negative and rubbish level of discussion in this country.
The Brexit referendum over something very important was absent in facts and proper consideration of how the country might be set up. This is totally at the door of the Conservative Main stream media and David Cameron in not having a grown up and sensible discussion so that an informed decision could be made.
If there was one thing, how the Conservatives need to change is to leave the negative campaigning and politics at the door and discuss things in a sensible fashion that may actually produce proper policy and decisions.
If corbyn doesn't win this election or even a coalition or minority, then there's no way in hell he'll ever ever win labour an election. Ever.
Surely they can't be stupid enough to call a GE?
You wouldn’t have thought so, but nothing would surprise me in politics anymore.
Still, on the plus side just after the last election I had a bet on 2018 & 2019 for the next one.
But god help us if we have to choose between Johnson and Corbyn..... surely it hasn’t come to this.
This is referring to Donald Trump and the Russian Arron Banks Vote Leave fixing connection, I take it.
I think that is in the same bracket as the conservatives continuing to take contributions from a company already under investigation for money laundering and a foreign government murdering British citizens.
When the question was posed..."How do the tories need to change?"...I never for one moment thought that the answer would be Dominic Bloody Raaaaaaaaab!!! Another turd!!
They sent us all a leaflet explaing it. The problems started when the public voted against the will of the politians.
All this 'what were we voting for.' nonsense is just a consequence of that.
You must be the only person in the country who knew what they were voting for. I've not heard a single politician offer a coherent explanation of what it means.
The cheerleaders for Brexit - Farage etc - seem the most clueless of the lot.
You must really struggle at general elections when there is more than one issue. Have you considered disenfranchising yourself?
What exactly is Brexit then? Please define as none of our politicians have managed to - maybe you're living on a different planet?
I'm assuming you'll come out with one of these meaningless definitions such as 'I want my country back!'.
How exactly can you vote for Brexit when no plan exists and nobody has the capacity to come up with one. Two years after the vote we're no further forward so It's really been an amazing success.
The referendum was a farce - no thought went into it and no preparation was done.
Brexit is leaving the EU as a member state. That doesn't preclude you having arrangements with the EU in relation to trade etc... and if you do that there are normally conditions. it doesn't preclude you leaving with no deals either - but the referendum had no clarity over what would be the case.
The weakness of the Hard Brexiters' argument on this can be seen when they state that everybody knew it meant leaving everything because Cameron said it would during the campaign. This is so unbelievable a position you have to pinch yourself. Vote Leave's campaign was all about contradicting Cameron's position, and now they are saying not that bit - you had to believe that bit!!!!
Of course Hard brexiters can legitimately claim there was no clear mandate for a soft Brexit. this is because the vote didn't allow for anything beyond in or out. As I have said earlier - if your position is that a Norway deal is effectively not leaving - why is it accepted by all that Norway are not an EU member state?
No chance of a general election. Tories won’t call an election that they could easily lose.
On that basis May will be allowed to stumble on until its impossible for her to remain. My best guess is until after Brexit in March 2019 most likely the following autumn.
She won’t be allowed to lead the conservatives into the next GE because her authority and credibility is shot. She is however a very good scapegoat and sacrificial lamb if it’s possible to be both at the same time. Can’t see a leadership battle to grasp this poison chalice and the DUP won’t jump up and down too much because making too many problems might lose them the only amount of influence they have ever had in Westminster.
I think what I’m saying is that politicians are all a bunch of cowardly, self serving weasels who would sooner do nothing to save their skins rather than do the right thing for the country.
Not a Tory voter and I understand a lot of people will vote Tory on the basis anyone but labour, but would anyone that does vote Tory be happy with Johnson, Gove or Rees Mogg? Serious question
No chance of a general election. Tories won’t call an election that they could easily lose.
On that basis May will be allowed to stumble on until its impossible for her to remain. My best guess is until after Brexit in March 2019 most likely the following autumn.
She won’t be allowed to lead the conservatives into the next GE because her authority and credibility is shot. She is however a very good scapegoat and sacrificial lamb if it’s possible to be both at the same time. Can’t see a leadership battle to grasp this poison chalice and the DUP won’t jump up and down too much because making too many problems might lose them the only amount of influence they have ever had in Westminster.
I think what I’m saying is that politicians are all a bunch of cowardly, self serving weasels who would sooner do nothing to save their skins rather than do the right thing for the country.
The former Swedish prime minister Carl Bildt tweeted on Monday that Britain "used to be a nation providing leadership to the world - now, it can't even provide leadership to itself".
Not a Tory voter and I understand a lot of people will vote Tory on the basis anyone but labour, but would anyone that does vote Tory be happy with Johnson, Gove or Rees Mogg? Serious question
For me it's not anyone but 'Labour' as i've voted red before,
But with those three I'd probably have to vote Green (if they bothered standing next time around) and Corbyn, McDonnell and Abbot were still the opposition vote.
i think it'd say a lot about the state of our politics if campaigning at the next election on one of the debate shows was Corbyn, McDonnell and Abbot v's Mogg, Johnson and Gove. I think at that point any faith I have left in our politics would end there and then!
Not a Tory voter and I understand a lot of people will vote Tory on the basis anyone but labour, but would anyone that does vote Tory be happy with Johnson, Gove or Rees Mogg? Serious question
They'd lose my vote if any of those 3 got in charge. I wouldn't switch allegiance and vote elsewhere because no other party represents my interests, but I'd feel far to disenfranchised with the party to vote for those named.
The party needs a major shakeup and to realise that there are plenty of voters under 30 (like myself) who need to be able to relate to the politicians they're voting for.
Any predictions on what the current UK would be like if Ed Miliband had won the general election in 2015? He wasn't exactly inspiring but surely the UK would be in a better state than it is now, or under a Corbyn leadership.
Miliband would have been good in a more-of-the-same-but-less-austerity manner IMO and would have had Labour largely behind him so would have been able to push a few things through. We'd be in an unquestionably better place now if he'd gotten in, albeit UKIP would still be blethering on how they do
Any predictions on what the current UK would be like if Ed Miliband had won the general election in 2015? He wasn't exactly inspiring but surely the UK would be in.a better state than it is now, or under a Corbyn leadership.
Well the obvious thing to mention is that Brexit would not be happening so on that basis alone the UK would be in better shape.
Miliband completely duffed his campaign, alas, and Cameron's chummy lack of personality was enough to push him over the edge. Corbyn is at least a character. Look at the people who've challenged him! Eagle! Smith! Utter non-entities, middle-managers, with no convictions or apparent principles. And now Caroline Lucas is stepping down as Green leader ffs - a large part of me hopes she'll be parachuted straight into Labour as heir apparent
Quite likely if David Miliband had won the leadership contest he would have won the election though, and the UK would be in a very different place indeed.
What a mess. UK a laughing stock. May could have set up this soft Brexit fudge last year and then let the people decide whether they want it or not. Hard to see how this will pan out. May will now have Davis and Boris agitating against her big time, pissing in, as it were. Not nice. Labour no better. Is this an opportunity for Corbyn to show his 'man of principle' colours? Or will he also get lost in the chaos?
The Tories have to think about another election. How do they fight one as they are now. For a start, who can lead them? A brexiter or a remainer? How would remainers react to a brexiter and how would a Brexiter react to a remainer. it is quite telling that their best candidate to be leader, Ruth Davidson would not be accepted by Brexiters. May has been keeping the party together by juggling the balls and resisting clarity - this has resulted in posturing and threats in an attempt to steer the government in a particular position and throughout this, we have been completely wasting our time negotiating with the EU when we don't know our position!
Labour would have similar issues if it was in power. The problem for Labour is the staunch remainers who would not accept its current position. To an extent, it helps not being in power. Also, the Brexit the cabinet seemingly agreed isn't too far away from the official Labour position - maybe they want more emphasis on services but it isn't too detached. So it can be argued that it might be better to let the Tories damage themselves as they try to deliver it.
It is going to be easier for both parties when Brexit is over but the party doing most damage to itself is the one in power.
Not a Tory voter and I understand a lot of people will vote Tory on the basis anyone but labour, but would anyone that does vote Tory be happy with Johnson, Gove or Rees Mogg? Serious question
I've voted Tory all my life, but no, I couldn't vote for any of those three. Not sure I could vote Tory at all, in the near future at least. There is, I believe, no party that represents my just right of centre point of view. While that's the case, I can see myself not voting at all. Shame on UK politics and UK politicians.
There is, I believe, no party that represents my just right of centre point of view. While that's the case, I can see myself not voting at all. Shame on UK politics and UK politicians.
This sums up my position on it all. We don’t have one viable option for PM from any party, nor any party that seems capable of leading. We were up shit creek without a paddle, but now we are tumbling over diarrhoea falls...
Maybe we will have someone step forward like Macron in France, a new party/movement that people can get behind. But I seriously doubt it right now.
NHS breathes a sigh of relief. I hate Hunt as much as any of the other cabinet rabble.
It is the most poisoned chalice to be fair to him. A Conservative Health Minister is probably the hardest job in government in normal circumstances, not that there is anything normal anymore.
Comments
This is literally the only way this can get worse now.
Surely.
--------------------------
Typically when the Conservatives are royally messing everything up, a few try to turn things around on Labour.
The whole problem with Brexit and politics in this country is the appalling low level and negative debate that leaves nothing debated properly. The Brexit mess is another perfect example of how poor policy results from the utterly negative and rubbish level of discussion in this country.
The Brexit referendum over something very important was absent in facts and proper consideration of how the country might be set up. This is totally at the door of the Conservative Main stream media and David Cameron in not having a grown up and sensible discussion so that an informed decision could be made.
If there was one thing, how the Conservatives need to change is to leave the negative campaigning and politics at the door and discuss things in a sensible fashion that may actually produce proper policy and decisions.
You can no doubt expect a robust response.
I'm assuming you'll come out with one of these meaningless definitions such as 'I want my country back!'.
How exactly can you vote for Brexit when no plan exists and nobody has the capacity to come up with one. Two years after the vote we're no further forward so It's really been an amazing success.
The referendum was a farce - no thought went into it and no preparation was done.
The weakness of the Hard Brexiters' argument on this can be seen when they state that everybody knew it meant leaving everything because Cameron said it would during the campaign. This is so unbelievable a position you have to pinch yourself. Vote Leave's campaign was all about contradicting Cameron's position, and now they are saying not that bit - you had to believe that bit!!!!
Of course Hard brexiters can legitimately claim there was no clear mandate for a soft Brexit. this is because the vote didn't allow for anything beyond in or out. As I have said earlier - if your position is that a Norway deal is effectively not leaving - why is it accepted by all that Norway are not an EU member state?
On that basis May will be allowed to stumble on until its impossible for her to remain. My best guess is until after Brexit in March 2019 most likely the following autumn.
She won’t be allowed to lead the conservatives into the next GE because her authority and credibility is shot. She is however a very good scapegoat and sacrificial lamb if it’s possible to be both at the same time. Can’t see a leadership battle to grasp this poison chalice and the DUP won’t jump up and down too much because making too many problems might lose them the only amount of influence they have ever had in Westminster.
I think what I’m saying is that politicians are all a bunch of cowardly, self serving weasels who would sooner do nothing to save their skins rather than do the right thing for the country.
But with those three I'd probably have to vote Green (if they bothered standing next time around) and Corbyn, McDonnell and Abbot were still the opposition vote.
i think it'd say a lot about the state of our politics if campaigning at the next election on one of the debate shows was Corbyn, McDonnell and Abbot v's Mogg, Johnson and Gove. I think at that point any faith I have left in our politics would end there and then!
The party needs a major shakeup and to realise that there are plenty of voters under 30 (like myself) who need to be able to relate to the politicians they're voting for.
Labour would have similar issues if it was in power. The problem for Labour is the staunch remainers who would not accept its current position. To an extent, it helps not being in power. Also, the Brexit the cabinet seemingly agreed isn't too far away from the official Labour position - maybe they want more emphasis on services but it isn't too detached. So it can be argued that it might be better to let the Tories damage themselves as they try to deliver it.
It is going to be easier for both parties when Brexit is over but the party doing most damage to itself is the one in power.
Maybe we will have someone step forward like Macron in France, a new party/movement that people can get behind. But I seriously doubt it right now.
1. Does it ensure a strong and collaborative future relationship with the EU?
2. Does it deliver the “exact same benefits” as we currently have as members of the Single Market and Customs Union?
3. Does it ensure the fair management of migration in the interests of the economy and communities?
4. Does it defend rights and protections and prevent a race to the bottom?
5. Does it protect national security and our capacity to tackle cross-border crime?
6. Does it deliver for all regions and nations of the UK?