Being suspicious of the motive and methods of Momentum does not equal foaming at the mouth. Nor does commenting on their role in maintaining Corbyn at the top of the Labour party.
We have the first post conference PMQ's in about ten minutes, with May hard up against the brexit deadline. I think Corbyn will work around the notion of austerity and so on rather than brexit today (just a guess), May and Corbyn will bandy around figures and expert reports, and it will finish with May declaring that Labour policies will bankrupt Britain. The problem with that for May is she is the one in control of the austerity (or not) whilst Corbyn has the luxury in opposition of promoting a message of hope, however realistic/unrealistic that may be. To say that austerity may end dependent on a good brexit to make up for enduring years of belt tightening is not that appealing these days.
I think people foam at the mouth when they look at momentum because they are conditioned to do so, but I don't think it is sinister like the press seek to make out. It is trying to get a leftist Labour party elected, which whilst people may not agree with, it surely isn't unreasonable from its own perspective. Look at the attacks Corbyn has had to face from Blairites within his own party, is not that a different side of the same coin?
what the hell is wrong with being suspicious of a small group of people that wield a huge amount of power in the second largest party in the UK?
Attacks on corbyn? Like what? You mean holding him up to the same standards as everyone else?
It will be interesting to see what happens. The Labour party is relatively peaceful at the moment compared to the Tories. But both parties have to decide what they are about. May is trying to keep both factions of the Conservative party together and that is why she is still Prime Minister. Who else can do it? An open remainer or an open Brexiter? But even May can only keep things together for so long as the cards have to fall on one side or the other!
Centrist politicians in the Labour party have a difficult task as the left has found a home and the numbers of members have given Corbyn a great deal of power. I would argue that the last Labour manifesto, whilst being more leftist than Milliband's austerity light, wasn't really that hard left. Yes it involved some nationalisation, but this was in areas that even non Labour supporters have sympathy with. The biggest issue for Labour is like the Conservatives - Europe. But recent events may have helped there and the extremity of views here are not quite as high. Having said that, the best path Labour can tread IMO is moving towards a pro EU position.
It will be interesting to see what happens. The Labour party is relatively peaceful at the moment compared to the Tories. But both parties have to decide what they are about. May is trying to keep both factions of the Conservative party together and that is why she is still Prime Minister. Who else can do it? An open remainer or an open Brexiter? But even May can only keep things together for so long as the cards have to fall on one side or the other!
Centrist politicians in the Labour party have a difficult task as the left has found a home and the numbers of members have given Corbyn a great deal of power. I would argue that the last Labour manifesto, whilst being more leftist than Milliband's austerity light, wasn't really that hard left. Yes it involved some nationalisation, but this was in areas that even non Labour supporters have sympathy with. The biggest issue for Labour is like the Conservatives - Europe. But recent events may have helped there and the extremity of views here are not quite as high. Having said that, the best path Labour can tread IMO is moving towards a pro EU position.
the biggest issue labour has right now is corbyn. I think if he resigned and some one else took over with the same policies they would be a lot more popular.
But whilst that is probably true, the question is whether he still might be popular enough. Especially with the Tories in self destruct mode! The press had their chance with Milliband and decided to do a hatchet job on him when had he been elected we would not be facing the crap we have been over the last few years. And Cameron even went on to nick his policies!
When the last election was called I was very anti Corbyn because whilst I admired him and had sympathy with many of his views, I thought he had zero chance of power. I don't believe that now. What he has to do though, is not only win power but make things noticeably better after he has done so. I think that will help quell Alt-Right popularism around the world to some degree. But there is also a danger, that if he doesn't do well in government, people may see that as the only option.
People who yearn for a centrist party aren't really paying attention to what is happening around them. Popularism is on the increase and I would frankly rather that popularism be built around social justice than hate or xenophobia. Dangerous times though!
In PMQ's during the May/Corbyn exchange, May went on about better times ahead, Corbyn paraded examples of the crap situation in many areas of society and May tried to counter by listing wonderful things. Those on zero hours contracts, subject to years of pay freezes with more to come, struggling with debt including student debt, struggling with getting a secure and affordable place to live, those needing food banks, and those uncertain they will get the support they need in personal difficulties...indeed those still 'just about managing' I feel won't have been persuaded by May's description of things or her jam tomorrow promise.
My wife works in a primary school and whilst I was helping her carry delivered milk into the building last week, I saw all the harvest festival tins and packets of food the kids had brought in. It reminded me of my school days when we donated to an old people's home and a few of us even went along to sing to them 'we plough the fields and scatter....'. Poor souls! I assumed that this spread had the same fate, but my wife told me it was going to a local food bank. What upset me was how normal this sounded!
Gordon Brown in the Guardian was good this morning, real chance that even if they scrape through Brexit, they'll get hit by Universal Credit next year. 3 million people will be reapplying at the same time in the early summer, if there is a messy departure form the EU, and there is a massive screw up on UC, it'll be a end for 15 years
My wife works in a primary school and whilst I was helping her carry delivered milk into the building last week, I saw all the harvest festival tins and packets of food the kids had brought in. It reminded me of my school days when we donated to an old people's home and a few of us even went along to sing to them 'we plough the fields and scatter....'. Poor souls! I assumed that this spread had the same fate, but my wife told me it was going to a local food bank. What upset me was how normal this sounded!
Exactly the same. We used to give tins of food to assorted old people, now its families who can't afford to feed themselves. Shocking.
How many of those families have mobile phones and flatscreen TVs...
Probably most, pretty hard not to buy a flatscreen TV these day.
Could just not buy a TV! Imagine all that food you could buy, that's without even thinking about the saved electricity.
that's right, sell their tv's and their posessions to afford a plane ticket and move to china where there are millions living off $2 a day. Bloody benefit stooges.
You can buy a flat screen tv for £30 second hand. Are we saying they shouldn't be able to watch some tv?
I'm saying a lot of people could make better life choices, I'm not including the sort of person who buys a second hand TV.
100% watching TV is a privilege, not a right.
Maybe we could all be making better life choices but if you are disputing people are in genuine poverty, many of them working people, you are ignoring the facts.
How many of those families have mobile phones and flatscreen TVs...
Probably most, pretty hard not to buy a flatscreen TV these day.
Could just not buy a TV! Imagine all that food you could buy, that's without even thinking about the saved electricity.
that's right, sell their tv's and their posessions to afford a plane ticket and move to china where there are millions living off $2 a day. Bloody benefit stooges.
Not really relevant to my point though, is it, I'm not talking about China, I'm talking about the UK.
You can buy a flat screen tv for £30 second hand. Are we saying they shouldn't be able to watch some tv?
I'm saying a lot of people could make better life choices, I'm not including the sort of person who buys a second hand TV.
100% watching TV is a privilege, not a right.
Maybe we could all be making better life choices but if you are disputing people are in genuine poverty, many of them working people, you are ignoring the facts.
I'm not disputing many are in genuine poverty, I'm just saying many people using foodbanks, are not, imo, living in genuine poverty.
I've seen real genuine poverty and it doesn't include Nike's and TVs.
How many of those families have mobile phones and flatscreen TVs...
Probably most, pretty hard not to buy a flatscreen TV these day.
Could just not buy a TV! Imagine all that food you could buy, that's without even thinking about the saved electricity.
that's right, sell their tv's and their posessions to afford a plane ticket and move to china where there are millions living off $2 a day. Bloody benefit stooges.
Not really relevant to my point though, is it, I'm not talking about China, I'm talking about the UK.
You can buy a flat screen tv for £30 second hand. Are we saying they shouldn't be able to watch some tv?
I'm saying a lot of people could make better life choices, I'm not including the sort of person who buys a second hand TV.
100% watching TV is a privilege, not a right.
Maybe we could all be making better life choices but if you are disputing people are in genuine poverty, many of them working people, you are ignoring the facts.
I'm not disputing many are in genuine poverty, I'm just saying many people using foodbanks, are not, imo, living in genuine poverty.
I've seen real genuine poverty and it doesn't include Nike's and TVs.
but they can fly to china if they sell their stuff, then they wont be in poverty. They will be able to live, like many others, on $2. Everybody wins.
Kids, don't forget having kids. If they're that poor then life choices could include no TV's, no mobile phones and no children. Also with food banks available they needn't waste money on food. And it isn't absolutely necessary to wash or shower in anything other than cold water, as for having someplace to live, arrange to clean up after one of those festivals and you can often get an abandoned tent, that's rent and mortgage saved right there.
You can buy a flat screen tv for £30 second hand. Are we saying they shouldn't be able to watch some tv?
I'm saying a lot of people could make better life choices, I'm not including the sort of person who buys a second hand TV.
100% watching TV is a privilege, not a right.
What complete and utter tosh. You need to jump back in time to the Jacob Rees-Mogg view of the world with people given just enough to survive. Perhaps a communal tv in a workhouse would suffice.
Mobile phones are pretty much an essential item for people now, they act as most people only means of accessing public services, there are little to no chance of having public services being available onsite anymore. Try applying for say Universal Credit without a phone or being online, opening a bank account, applying for a job. This government is committed to more and more being online, and local authorities have no choice but to go online as they have no money to run services.
Trotting out sub Daily Mail bollocks from the last decade is either wilful trolling, or your lack basic empathy, I suspect it's the latter
Comments
I think Corbyn will work around the notion of austerity and so on rather than brexit today (just a guess), May and Corbyn will bandy around figures and expert reports, and it will finish with May declaring that Labour policies will bankrupt Britain.
The problem with that for May is she is the one in control of the austerity (or not) whilst Corbyn has the luxury in opposition of promoting a message of hope, however realistic/unrealistic that may be.
To say that austerity may end dependent on a good brexit to make up for enduring years of belt tightening is not that appealing these days.
Attacks on corbyn? Like what? You mean holding him up to the same standards as everyone else?
Centrist politicians in the Labour party have a difficult task as the left has found a home and the numbers of members have given Corbyn a great deal of power. I would argue that the last Labour manifesto, whilst being more leftist than Milliband's austerity light, wasn't really that hard left. Yes it involved some nationalisation, but this was in areas that even non Labour supporters have sympathy with. The biggest issue for Labour is like the Conservatives - Europe. But recent events may have helped there and the extremity of views here are not quite as high. Having said that, the best path Labour can tread IMO is moving towards a pro EU position.
When the last election was called I was very anti Corbyn because whilst I admired him and had sympathy with many of his views, I thought he had zero chance of power. I don't believe that now. What he has to do though, is not only win power but make things noticeably better after he has done so. I think that will help quell Alt-Right popularism around the world to some degree. But there is also a danger, that if he doesn't do well in government, people may see that as the only option.
People who yearn for a centrist party aren't really paying attention to what is happening around them. Popularism is on the increase and I would frankly rather that popularism be built around social justice than hate or xenophobia. Dangerous times though!
Those on zero hours contracts, subject to years of pay freezes with more to come, struggling with debt including student debt, struggling with getting a secure and affordable place to live, those needing food banks, and those uncertain they will get the support they need in personal difficulties...indeed those still 'just about managing' I feel won't have been persuaded by May's description of things or her jam tomorrow promise.
100% watching TV is a privilege, not a right.
I've seen real genuine poverty and it doesn't include Nike's and TVs.
If they're that poor then life choices could include no TV's, no mobile phones and no children.
Also with food banks available they needn't waste money on food.
And it isn't absolutely necessary to wash or shower in anything other than cold water, as for having someplace to live, arrange to clean up after one of those festivals and you can often get an abandoned tent, that's rent and mortgage saved right there.
Trotting out sub Daily Mail bollocks from the last decade is either wilful trolling, or your lack basic empathy, I suspect it's the latter
What about hot water ?
What about carpets ?
What about a sofa ?
Can live perfectly well without any of them. Are they luxuries?
I