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The Takeover Thread - Duchatelet Finally Sells (Jan 2020)

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Comments

  • edited July 2019
    All the evidence we have seen over the years from Roland is that he reacts in an unconsidered and hot headed way to things. A valid tactic is surely to give him enough things to react to, in the hope that one of these reactions may be to call a bidder and accept their offer price. Of course there is no certainty offers will still be on the table, but he has a few he can call even at £30m which is significantly more than he paid for the club.
  • 1956, Jimmy Seed is asked to resign ( sacked ) as Charlton .
  • Hex said:
    Agreed. He believes his view is absolutely rationale from the standpoint of a business model and the rest of the world has gone mad. He is probably right but anyone buying a football club should go into it expecting they will likely lose money unless they are in the Premier League.

    The problem is, he wants out but appears to expect any potential buyer to pay for the ongoing errors made on his watch in terms of management rotations, poor player acquisitions, handling of outgoing player valuations and as he moved up the learning curve on English football economics. As has been said, he had the option to get out as soon as he realised the EFL had moved the goalposts as regards FFP. However, if he can keep the club on life support by breaking even, despite relegations back to League 1 or even 2, at least it isn’t costing him money.

    Whilst I concede having a reasonable level of current operating costs to outline  to potential buyers is good, they will have their view on their appetite for annual losses over the near term. They are however more likely to be interested in a reasonable upfront purchase price and what might be considered reasonable for a Championship club is unlikely to be considered reasonable the further down the leagues the club goes.

    Promotion back to the Championship was probably his best chance of extricating himself with a reasonable price to defray some of his investment and it looks like he is closing the window on that.

    It may not make any difference in terms of changing his stubbornness but I think in the Fans Forum, CAST communications, interaction with the press etc there has to be continued emphasis on his quotes above and the fact that he has no footballing ambition for the club and that he is living in cloud cuckoo land if he is holding out for a price that covers his aggregate losses for the past 5 years. It would be good if any of the buyers who have walked away would reveal the exact price they had offered.
    I don't totally agree with this as it may be considered too commercially sensitive and may not be the real problem as a price seems to get agreed.  However, it would be interesting to know what he uses to increase the price.  Eg does he throw in a percentage of the sale price of any youngsters in the academy ?  
    Yes, commercially sensitive, with NDAs still Potentially binding if a deal not finally agreed. But would be good to somehow get out in the open why a deal is not being concluded. One thing I am pretty sure of, it is not ongoing losses that are deterring people. Any prospective purchaser will be well aware of the scale of losses being incurred simply by looking at the club accounts in the public domain....and also the scale of losses incurred by Championship clubs chasing the dream of Premier League football.
  • Hex said:
    Agreed. He believes his view is absolutely rationale from the standpoint of a business model and the rest of the world has gone mad. He is probably right but anyone buying a football club should go into it expecting they will likely lose money unless they are in the Premier League.

    The problem is, he wants out but appears to expect any potential buyer to pay for the ongoing errors made on his watch in terms of management rotations, poor player acquisitions, handling of outgoing player valuations and as he moved up the learning curve on English football economics. As has been said, he had the option to get out as soon as he realised the EFL had moved the goalposts as regards FFP. However, if he can keep the club on life support by breaking even, despite relegations back to League 1 or even 2, at least it isn’t costing him money.

    Whilst I concede having a reasonable level of current operating costs to outline  to potential buyers is good, they will have their view on their appetite for annual losses over the near term. They are however more likely to be interested in a reasonable upfront purchase price and what might be considered reasonable for a Championship club is unlikely to be considered reasonable the further down the leagues the club goes.

    Promotion back to the Championship was probably his best chance of extricating himself with a reasonable price to defray some of his investment and it looks like he is closing the window on that.

    It may not make any difference in terms of changing his stubbornness but I think in the Fans Forum, CAST communications, interaction with the press etc there has to be continued emphasis on his quotes above and the fact that he has no footballing ambition for the club and that he is living in cloud cuckoo land if he is holding out for a price that covers his aggregate losses for the past 5 years. It would be good if any of the buyers who have walked away would reveal the exact price they had offered.
    I don't totally agree with this as it may be considered too commercially sensitive and may not be the real problem as a price seems to get agreed.  However, it would be interesting to know what he uses to increase the price.  Eg does he throw in a percentage of the sale price of any youngsters in the academy ?  
    Yes, commercially sensitive, with NDAs still Potentially binding if a deal not finally agreed. But would be good to somehow get out in the open why a deal is not being concluded. One thing I am pretty sure of, it is not ongoing losses that are deterring people. Any prospective purchaser will be well aware of the scale of losses being incurred simply by looking at the club accounts in the public domain....and also the scale of losses incurred by Championship clubs chasing the dream of Premier League football.
    I agree - given Duchatelets position as per Talk Sport yesterday, getting the real problem out there in the public domain would be a useful development.
  • Redrobo said:
    Chunes said:
    What does Roland do when he's wrong? He finds someone or something else to blame. 

    I wouldn't get too distracted by his claims around the championship's FFP rules being the problem

    If that were the case, why weren't we bought when we were in League One?

    Why did he let on that it would be easier for us to be bought when were in the Championship?

    Why was the narrative that we'd be more attractive in the higher league? If, in fact, it makes us far less attractive? 

    This is just the same circle of behaviour we've always seen. He doesn't believe he could possibly be the problem, the real problem must lie somewhere else. 

    Unfortunately, this time, he raised a valid point about rules being a bit off, so the distraction is working a bit more than it normally would. But a distraction it still is.

    If one accepts that Roland genuinely believed that being in division 1 is economically better than the Championship, why did he increase his asking price when we got promoted?

    The logical thing to do would be to get rid asap. Even reduce the price to avoid the extra running costs.

    What I cannot reconcile is how someone so obviously stupid got to make so much money.

    I think we need to protest some how, but while we wait for anyone to think of something that will be effective, I am going to make a small gesture and get a ball rolling.

    I have a season ticket, but I am boycotting the first home game unless we are sold. I will also boycott the first televised home game.

    Probably all pointless, but it is what it is.
    Therein lies the problem as things stand with 10,000 already having given Duchatelet several million pounds in advance sales this season. I am afraid our next big protest opportunity will only come in the close season of 2020 when the appetite to renew will be considerably smaller after a year of struggle and humbling losses as we are outclassed this season due to our small and weak squad. If we could manage a serious season ticket boycott (we don't necessarily need to stop going altogether) I am convinced Duchatelet would take notice and have to consider cutting his losses and selling-up far more seriously than he has done to date.
    I am merely making a protest, it is not about the money for me - I have already spent it!
  • Hex said:
    Agreed. He believes his view is absolutely rationale from the standpoint of a business model and the rest of the world has gone mad. He is probably right but anyone buying a football club should go into it expecting they will likely lose money unless they are in the Premier League.

    The problem is, he wants out but appears to expect any potential buyer to pay for the ongoing errors made on his watch in terms of management rotations, poor player acquisitions, handling of outgoing player valuations and as he moved up the learning curve on English football economics. As has been said, he had the option to get out as soon as he realised the EFL had moved the goalposts as regards FFP. However, if he can keep the club on life support by breaking even, despite relegations back to League 1 or even 2, at least it isn’t costing him money.

    Whilst I concede having a reasonable level of current operating costs to outline  to potential buyers is good, they will have their view on their appetite for annual losses over the near term. They are however more likely to be interested in a reasonable upfront purchase price and what might be considered reasonable for a Championship club is unlikely to be considered reasonable the further down the leagues the club goes.

    Promotion back to the Championship was probably his best chance of extricating himself with a reasonable price to defray some of his investment and it looks like he is closing the window on that.

    It may not make any difference in terms of changing his stubbornness but I think in the Fans Forum, CAST communications, interaction with the press etc there has to be continued emphasis on his quotes above and the fact that he has no footballing ambition for the club and that he is living in cloud cuckoo land if he is holding out for a price that covers his aggregate losses for the past 5 years. It would be good if any of the buyers who have walked away would reveal the exact price they had offered.
    I don't totally agree with this as it may be considered too commercially sensitive and may not be the real problem as a price seems to get agreed.  However, it would be interesting to know what he uses to increase the price.  Eg does he throw in a percentage of the sale price of any youngsters in the academy ?  
    Yes, commercially sensitive, with NDAs still Potentially binding if a deal not finally agreed. 
    This is the bit I don't understand.

    You approach RD to buy the Club, part of the negoatiations is to agree a NDA.

    You pull out of the deal due to the irrational behaviour of the seller, so surely the NDA becomes null and void. The seller cannot prevent you from telling the World about your approach, offer and reasons for withdrawing.

    Does Mrs RD have to sign a NDA when they're discussing what to have for dinner tonight?
  • vff said:
    When the financial fair play changed then Duchatelet should have sold. But he didn’t & persisted with a flawed network system with ridiculous expensive contracts negotiated by someone with little apparent knowledge of football. He turned his back on knowledge & expertise in the club. The losses have feck all to do with EFL but his own incompetence for which he refuses any accountability whatsoever. 

    There are plenty of buyers for the club but are not going to buy at inflated price that recovers his losses that he is responsible for.

    I am really tired of Duchatelet’s utter horseshit.


    Exactly this.

    Clubs at all levels of the game with all kinds of profit/losses, good situations/dire situations get sold, but we're expected to believe that a London based Championship side is unsellable.

    Absolute nonsense.
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  • edited July 2019
    I suppose there are a few reasons which may or may not be the case. Firstly, loyalty to the fans and club. I think this is evidenced by Bowyer's obvious joy at his achievement. His first reaction when Bauer scored was to run to the fans. I think he feels the love and that is evidenced by not telling Roland to piss off when he acted disrespectfully during the contract negotiations. Secondly, he was given a budget that looked better than it was last season. Mainly because it included high earners the club couldn't shift such as Vetokele on £7.5k a week. But he found a way to bring qulaity in, heavily subsidised by other clubs. He did it once so he must think he can do it again, Thirdly, even if the project fails, his reputation won't be damaged too much given who the owner is. At the very least, there will be a line of League One clubs ready to give him a go. I think if say Sunderland start badly, they would be an option. And finally, he is still being paid a decent wedge, even if others are getting more. As he said, he isn't greedy but he does want a wage reflecting the job he is doing and ultimately he agreed on something acceptable. 


  • A major thing I don't get is why Bowyer persists, hes got enough money to live comfortably, could take probably at least half a dozen other jobs was willing to walk 2 months back.
    I just don't see why he'd want the stress of it knowing we are going to be relegation fodder, knowing he can't sign anyone for a fee. 
    Add to this you entice Lockyear, Aneke, Oshilaji (and Taylor last season) who could all pretty much move to any club in league one or bottom 6 championship.

    You could say they have all been fed bullshit but surely they are not All thick enough to fall for it. All the above mentioned are here for a reason and must be here knowing there is a light? 
    Something just don't sit right. 
    What evidence do you have to make the statement that he was willing to walk?

    As for why, why do some very good teachers teach in schools in deprived areas with difficult and challenged pupils? why do great doctors work in 3rd world countries? 

    Sometimes the challenge is the point. Sometimes a little victory is so much sweeter.
  • He will sell eventually we know that but it’s not going to be this season. We have to hope that Bowyer works a miracle and keeps us up. Relegation again under Roland will see him tighten the belt further and potentially jeopardise our status and ability to bounce back for a long time. 

    Make no mistake. Duchatelet is a real threat to our very existence. I’m convinced he doesn’t want to sell and has conned us and everyone else into thinking his experiment is done. Yes he’s spent money and some time and effort in his subterfuge but in reality it’s all peanuts to his wealth and money he is prepared to pay to carry out his experiment. He has modified his approach to better suit English football but his madcap theory of breaking even and remaining competitive is still burning bright. I don’t believe we will be rid of him until his experiment takes us to a bottom half League One club with a destroyed fan base and he finally realises that even his genius can’t beat in his eyes the skewed and insane football finances in England. It certainly won’t be his fault. Those suggesting protest is pointless might have a point but what else do we have ? 
  • 1956, Jimmy Seed is asked to resign ( sacked ) as Charlton .
    Mutual consent. Undisclosed. 
  • Redrobo said:
    Redrobo said:
    Chunes said:
    What does Roland do when he's wrong? He finds someone or something else to blame. 

    I wouldn't get too distracted by his claims around the championship's FFP rules being the problem

    If that were the case, why weren't we bought when we were in League One?

    Why did he let on that it would be easier for us to be bought when were in the Championship?

    Why was the narrative that we'd be more attractive in the higher league? If, in fact, it makes us far less attractive? 

    This is just the same circle of behaviour we've always seen. He doesn't believe he could possibly be the problem, the real problem must lie somewhere else. 

    Unfortunately, this time, he raised a valid point about rules being a bit off, so the distraction is working a bit more than it normally would. But a distraction it still is.

    If one accepts that Roland genuinely believed that being in division 1 is economically better than the Championship, why did he increase his asking price when we got promoted?

    The logical thing to do would be to get rid asap. Even reduce the price to avoid the extra running costs.

    What I cannot reconcile is how someone so obviously stupid got to make so much money.

    I think we need to protest some how, but while we wait for anyone to think of something that will be effective, I am going to make a small gesture and get a ball rolling.

    I have a season ticket, but I am boycotting the first home game unless we are sold. I will also boycott the first televised home game.

    Probably all pointless, but it is what it is.
    Therein lies the problem as things stand with 10,000 already having given Duchatelet several million pounds in advance sales this season. I am afraid our next big protest opportunity will only come in the close season of 2020 when the appetite to renew will be considerably smaller after a year of struggle and humbling losses as we are outclassed this season due to our small and weak squad. If we could manage a serious season ticket boycott (we don't necessarily need to stop going altogether) I am convinced Duchatelet would take notice and have to consider cutting his losses and selling-up far more seriously than he has done to date.
    I am merely making a protest, it is not about the money for me - I have already spent it!
    You’re on holiday aren’t you 😉
    Anywhere nice?
  • Addickted said:
    Hex said:
    Agreed. He believes his view is absolutely rationale from the standpoint of a business model and the rest of the world has gone mad. He is probably right but anyone buying a football club should go into it expecting they will likely lose money unless they are in the Premier League.

    The problem is, he wants out but appears to expect any potential buyer to pay for the ongoing errors made on his watch in terms of management rotations, poor player acquisitions, handling of outgoing player valuations and as he moved up the learning curve on English football economics. As has been said, he had the option to get out as soon as he realised the EFL had moved the goalposts as regards FFP. However, if he can keep the club on life support by breaking even, despite relegations back to League 1 or even 2, at least it isn’t costing him money.

    Whilst I concede having a reasonable level of current operating costs to outline  to potential buyers is good, they will have their view on their appetite for annual losses over the near term. They are however more likely to be interested in a reasonable upfront purchase price and what might be considered reasonable for a Championship club is unlikely to be considered reasonable the further down the leagues the club goes.

    Promotion back to the Championship was probably his best chance of extricating himself with a reasonable price to defray some of his investment and it looks like he is closing the window on that.

    It may not make any difference in terms of changing his stubbornness but I think in the Fans Forum, CAST communications, interaction with the press etc there has to be continued emphasis on his quotes above and the fact that he has no footballing ambition for the club and that he is living in cloud cuckoo land if he is holding out for a price that covers his aggregate losses for the past 5 years. It would be good if any of the buyers who have walked away would reveal the exact price they had offered.
    I don't totally agree with this as it may be considered too commercially sensitive and may not be the real problem as a price seems to get agreed.  However, it would be interesting to know what he uses to increase the price.  Eg does he throw in a percentage of the sale price of any youngsters in the academy ?  
    Yes, commercially sensitive, with NDAs still Potentially binding if a deal not finally agreed. 
    This is the bit I don't understand.

    You approach RD to buy the Club, part of the negoatiations is to agree a NDA.

    You pull out of the deal due to the irrational behaviour of the seller, so surely the NDA becomes null and void. The seller cannot prevent you from telling the World about your approach, offer and reasons for withdrawing.

    Does Mrs RD have to sign a NDA when they're discussing what to have for dinner tonight?
    I agree entirely.
    Given the number of prospective buyers that have walked, I have become increasingly amazed that there have been no leaks as to what their experience has been in trying to conclude a deal with The Helmet.....NDA not withstanding.
    As far as one can ascertain he seems to add a new caveat into the asking price each time a new buyer comes on the scene, with the net result that it’s a never ending saga resulting in each prospective buyer having been offered different terms......this is my belief anyway.
    Some of the add ons that we know of are a percentage of future player sales, a payment as and when we get into The Premiership, the directors loans as well as possible retention of ownership of The Valley and/or Sparrows Lane......ad infinitum.
  • edited July 2019
    Redrobo said:
    A major thing I don't get is why Bowyer persists, hes got enough money to live comfortably, could take probably at least half a dozen other jobs was willing to walk 2 months back.
    I just don't see why he'd want the stress of it knowing we are going to be relegation fodder, knowing he can't sign anyone for a fee. 
    Add to this you entice Lockyear, Aneke, Oshilaji (and Taylor last season) who could all pretty much move to any club in league one or bottom 6 championship.

    You could say they have all been fed bullshit but surely they are not All thick enough to fall for it. All the above mentioned are here for a reason and must be here knowing there is a light? 
    Something just don't sit right. 
    What evidence do you have to make the statement that he was willing to walk?

    As for why, why do some very good teachers teach in schools in deprived areas with difficult and challenged pupils? why do great doctors work in 3rd world countries? 

    Sometimes the challenge is the point. Sometimes a little victory is so much sweeter.
    Errr, the fact he laid his cards on the table and RD effectively sacked him for 24hrs.

    Whe you talk about teachers and doctors that's all a bit bollox mate as these are pro footballers and at the end of the day they all think and play for themselves not the club regardless of what we would want to believe. 
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  • I don't think that he has felt this at Charlton. He may increasingly have concluded that it's more than 2% but he does not feel it, because we are physically remote. 



    Which  is why protests  will only work in his backyard, anything at The Valley will further split the fanbase.

    Sadly I think the desire to protest has gone, the fact ROT got little to no support really sums things up.

  • 1956, Jimmy Seed is asked to resign ( sacked ) as Charlton .
    Blimey, football’s a harsh business. Two days ago I read that he’s steered CAFC to FA Cup glory and today I learn that he’s been sacked! Would serve us right if ,today or tomorrow, news breaks of us being relegated.
    I think you're right.   I can see a long spell out of the top flight and even a relegation to Division 3.  But, at least we're safe at The Valley.  No-one can take that away from us.  Can they? 
  • Fumbluff said:
    Redrobo said:
    Redrobo said:
    Chunes said:
    What does Roland do when he's wrong? He finds someone or something else to blame. 

    I wouldn't get too distracted by his claims around the championship's FFP rules being the problem

    If that were the case, why weren't we bought when we were in League One?

    Why did he let on that it would be easier for us to be bought when were in the Championship?

    Why was the narrative that we'd be more attractive in the higher league? If, in fact, it makes us far less attractive? 

    This is just the same circle of behaviour we've always seen. He doesn't believe he could possibly be the problem, the real problem must lie somewhere else. 

    Unfortunately, this time, he raised a valid point about rules being a bit off, so the distraction is working a bit more than it normally would. But a distraction it still is.

    If one accepts that Roland genuinely believed that being in division 1 is economically better than the Championship, why did he increase his asking price when we got promoted?

    The logical thing to do would be to get rid asap. Even reduce the price to avoid the extra running costs.

    What I cannot reconcile is how someone so obviously stupid got to make so much money.

    I think we need to protest some how, but while we wait for anyone to think of something that will be effective, I am going to make a small gesture and get a ball rolling.

    I have a season ticket, but I am boycotting the first home game unless we are sold. I will also boycott the first televised home game.

    Probably all pointless, but it is what it is.
    Therein lies the problem as things stand with 10,000 already having given Duchatelet several million pounds in advance sales this season. I am afraid our next big protest opportunity will only come in the close season of 2020 when the appetite to renew will be considerably smaller after a year of struggle and humbling losses as we are outclassed this season due to our small and weak squad. If we could manage a serious season ticket boycott (we don't necessarily need to stop going altogether) I am convinced Duchatelet would take notice and have to consider cutting his losses and selling-up far more seriously than he has done to date.
    I am merely making a protest, it is not about the money for me - I have already spent it!
    You’re on holiday aren’t you 😉
    Anywhere nice?
    St Truiden?
  • Addickted said:
    Hex said:
    Agreed. He believes his view is absolutely rationale from the standpoint of a business model and the rest of the world has gone mad. He is probably right but anyone buying a football club should go into it expecting they will likely lose money unless they are in the Premier League.

    The problem is, he wants out but appears to expect any potential buyer to pay for the ongoing errors made on his watch in terms of management rotations, poor player acquisitions, handling of outgoing player valuations and as he moved up the learning curve on English football economics. As has been said, he had the option to get out as soon as he realised the EFL had moved the goalposts as regards FFP. However, if he can keep the club on life support by breaking even, despite relegations back to League 1 or even 2, at least it isn’t costing him money.

    Whilst I concede having a reasonable level of current operating costs to outline  to potential buyers is good, they will have their view on their appetite for annual losses over the near term. They are however more likely to be interested in a reasonable upfront purchase price and what might be considered reasonable for a Championship club is unlikely to be considered reasonable the further down the leagues the club goes.

    Promotion back to the Championship was probably his best chance of extricating himself with a reasonable price to defray some of his investment and it looks like he is closing the window on that.

    It may not make any difference in terms of changing his stubbornness but I think in the Fans Forum, CAST communications, interaction with the press etc there has to be continued emphasis on his quotes above and the fact that he has no footballing ambition for the club and that he is living in cloud cuckoo land if he is holding out for a price that covers his aggregate losses for the past 5 years. It would be good if any of the buyers who have walked away would reveal the exact price they had offered.
    I don't totally agree with this as it may be considered too commercially sensitive and may not be the real problem as a price seems to get agreed.  However, it would be interesting to know what he uses to increase the price.  Eg does he throw in a percentage of the sale price of any youngsters in the academy ?  
    Yes, commercially sensitive, with NDAs still Potentially binding if a deal not finally agreed. 
    This is the bit I don't understand.

    You approach RD to buy the Club, part of the negoatiations is to agree a NDA.

    You pull out of the deal due to the irrational behaviour of the seller, so surely the NDA becomes null and void. The seller cannot prevent you from telling the World about your approach, offer and reasons for withdrawing.

    Does Mrs RD have to sign a NDA when they're discussing what to have for dinner tonight?
    Your guess is as good as mine. I was really just hypothesising that buyers may have been asked to sign an NDA that is binding regardless of whether or not a deal is concluded. You would think some snippets would leak but not really so far.
  • CAFCDAZ said:
    Question, would RD stating that any buyer had walked away due to the running costs and this not being the case, not be in breach of the NDA they signed? Just curious as if I was a potential buyer, surely you would leak the real reason out to increase pressure on him to sell?
    RD believes NDAs don’t apply to him, only to the buyer. He refused to meet PV’s investor because the latter wouldn’t agree to that.
    Thanks for confirming what I thought AB.
This discussion has been closed.

Roland Out Forever!