I’m on honeymoon in Aruba and still check this thread once or twice a day. I think it’s an addiction
Bahama. Ooh I wanna take you to Bermuda. Bahama. Come on pretty mama.
The only Beach Boys hit not written by Brian Wilson
Apart from Why Do Fools Fall In Love (1964), Do You Wanna Dance and Barbara Ann (1965), Sloop John B (1966), Bluebirds Over The Mountain (1968), I Can Hear Music (1969), Cottonfields (1970), Long Promised Road (1971), California Saga: California (1973), Rock and Roll Music (1975), Peggy Sue (1978), Lady Linda (1979), Come Go With Me (1981), Getcha Back and It's getting Late (1985), She Believes In Love Again and California Dreaming (1986), Wipe Out (1987), Still Cruisin' (1989), Problem Child (1989), Hot Fun in the Summertime (1992), I Can Hear Music (1966).
Thanks @Chizz . I clearly didnt make myself clear, when I said "hit", I meant a number one in the charts.
I’m on honeymoon in Aruba and still check this thread once or twice a day. I think it’s an addiction
Bahama. Ooh I wanna take you to Bermuda. Bahama. Come on pretty mama.
The only Beach Boys hit not written by Brian Wilson
Apart from Why Do Fools Fall In Love (1964), Do You Wanna Dance and Barbara Ann (1965), Sloop John B (1966), Bluebirds Over The Mountain (1968), I Can Hear Music (1969), Cottonfields (1970), Long Promised Road (1971), California Saga: California (1973), Rock and Roll Music (1975), Peggy Sue (1978), Lady Linda (1979), Come Go With Me (1981), Getcha Back and It's getting Late (1985), She Believes In Love Again and California Dreaming (1986), Wipe Out (1987), Still Cruisin' (1989), Problem Child (1989), Hot Fun in the Summertime (1992), I Can Hear Music (1966).
I’m on honeymoon in Aruba and still check this thread once or twice a day. I think it’s an addiction
Bahama. Ooh I wanna take you to Bermuda. Bahama. Come on pretty mama.
The only Beach Boys hit not written by Brian Wilson
Apart from Why Do Fools Fall In Love (1964), Do You Wanna Dance and Barbara Ann (1965), Sloop John B (1966), Bluebirds Over The Mountain (1968), I Can Hear Music (1969), Cottonfields (1970), Long Promised Road (1971), California Saga: California (1973), Rock and Roll Music (1975), Peggy Sue (1978), Lady Linda (1979), Come Go With Me (1981), Getcha Back and It's getting Late (1985), She Believes In Love Again and California Dreaming (1986), Wipe Out (1987), Still Cruisin' (1989), Problem Child (1989), Hot Fun in the Summertime (1992), I Can Hear Music (1966).
He did say hits. And quite a few of those are cover versions. Did Gagey mean songs written by the Beach Boys, but not BW?
Isn’t the club wholly owned by Staprix and is in effect just one of its group of companies.
Isn’t there a tax benefit for Roland if one of his companies is losing money ? Is the monthly loss really something less once the final tax burden is taken into account ?
I really don’t know.
The corporation tax rate in Belgium is around 30% so the losses at Charlton can, in theory, be offset against the Groups overall taxable earnings - i.e. a £10m annual loss at Charlton would reduce the CT by £3m - but it still costs the Staprix Group a net £7m.
I keep reading these assertions that a price was agreed of £40m. I cannot recall where this first came from and crucially why this was considered to be authoritative information.
Just to remind ourselves, £40m would be more than double what he paid 4 years ago. In that time he has taken the club down a division and seen the customer base eroded by 30-50% depending on the measure used. That would reduce the sale value of a normal business. RD has spent £1m on the pitch, and spent a relatively small amount at the training ground. As for the human assets, they have been totally devastated.
What else has happened in 4 years that might increase the sale value? Revenue in the FAPL has twisted up again. However as usual little of that has filtered down the leagues. The buyer needs first to take the club into the 2nd tier, and somehow navigate the financial maelstrom there, before he can even think about reaching profitability in the FAPL.
Property prices in London have risen, but land use on the property assets is so closely proscribed that it cannot possibly justify such an increase in price, especially when other metrics have fallen.
What does the market say? While media reports of sales are hardly reliable, can anyone point to a tier 3 club that has been sold for anywhere near £40m? I don't think so. Furthermore, I have never heard anything about these "Saudis" from anyone except people on CL. But I have spoken with the Blackpool ST secretary who has met two solid potential buyers of Blackpool who both told BST that they had looked at Charlton earlier - and walked away. During the first few months of 2018.
So can anyone with better knowledge of corporate finance than me, e.g @cafcfan spot anything that I have missed? Because if not, we are left with the following conclusion:
The idea that £40m is an offered price is fantasy. Pie in the effing sky. Unicorn talk. No sensible sane business person or group would entertain such a price because there is no rational business reason to pay it.
And that my friends is before we consider what the "sale price", whether its £40m or £4m actually means. What about changes in human asset values? (player sales, how sell ons are dealt with, etc). Remember his exit from Standard Liege. A new owner took over who apparently discovered too late that he had not anticipated certain things that RD thought he was entitled to before exiting.
Please by all means criticise the above, but please try to do so based on normal parameters of business valuation. Lets try to rise above the social media bollocks factory and be clear-eyed.
the Saudi’s showed their money enough to put in a firm offer they reached his number and got gazzumped by people that apart from buying a scarf and getting cheap cheers like wwe wrestlers have done nothing
They then walked away as they were at their number
Not a fake number by fake people
No. The Saudi's clearly didn't have the money to run the club or they simply weren't actually interested in the club.
I am fairly certain our latest bid received was not the same amount as the Aussies bid, however it was also accepted.
If the Saudi's had either the money or the interest, they'd own us by now.
Why they reached their limit and like in all auctions you know when to stop especially when the Aussies wouldn’t stop and seeing as they are only using Monopoly money why should they
Shame you can’t wake up and smell the coffee.
When they buy us I will drink coffee for the first time in years
But my coffee ban is well and truly safe
nla....you seem to be enjoying yourself making us all the more depressed. How much longer are you planning to go on finding countless ways of telling us exactly the same thing over and over again?
I don't think NLA enjoys it at all, I think he's just doing the same as others itk, by relaying what he's been told. The only problem is, people only seem to like good news (whether they know it to be wholly accurate or not) and what NLA is relaying, isn't necessarily what the majority of fans want to hear. The majority want to hear things like "It's gonna be a tough 2 weeks, but it'll be worth it in the end".
It seems to me that if you so much as question the Aussies in anyway, you get laughed at or jumped on.
Isn’t the club wholly owned by Staprix and is in effect just one of its group of companies.
Isn’t there a tax benefit for Roland if one of his companies is losing money ? Is the monthly loss really something less once the final tax burden is taken into account ?
I really don’t know.
The corporation tax rate in Belgium is around 30% so the losses at Charlton can, in theory, be offset against the Groups overall taxable earnings - i.e. a £10m annual loss at Charlton would reduce the CT by £3m - but it still costs the Staprix Group a net £7m.
Is this £7 million loss after taking into account player sales ?
I believe the £40m price tag was mentioned by @Redhenry many months ago. No idea if he is/was itk or whether he made it up. Its taken as gospel now though & like you, I would have thought anything above what he paid (c £18m inc debt) is a pisstake.
I’m on honeymoon in Aruba and still check this thread once or twice a day. I think it’s an addiction
Bahama. Ooh I wanna take you to Bermuda. Bahama. Come on pretty mama.
The only Beach Boys hit not written by Brian Wilson
Apart from Why Do Fools Fall In Love (1964), Do You Wanna Dance and Barbara Ann (1965), Sloop John B (1966), Bluebirds Over The Mountain (1968), I Can Hear Music (1969), Cottonfields (1970), Long Promised Road (1971), California Saga: California (1973), Rock and Roll Music (1975), Peggy Sue (1978), Lady Linda (1979), Come Go With Me (1981), Getcha Back and It's getting Late (1985), She Believes In Love Again and California Dreaming (1986), Wipe Out (1987), Still Cruisin' (1989), Problem Child (1989), Hot Fun in the Summertime (1992), I Can Hear Music (1966).
I’m on honeymoon in Aruba and still check this thread once or twice a day. I think it’s an addiction
Bahama. Ooh I wanna take you to Bermuda. Bahama. Come on pretty mama.
The only Beach Boys hit not written by Brian Wilson
Apart from Why Do Fools Fall In Love (1964), Do You Wanna Dance and Barbara Ann (1965), Sloop John B (1966), Bluebirds Over The Mountain (1968), I Can Hear Music (1969), Cottonfields (1970), Long Promised Road (1971), California Saga: California (1973), Rock and Roll Music (1975), Peggy Sue (1978), Lady Linda (1979), Come Go With Me (1981), Getcha Back and It's getting Late (1985), She Believes In Love Again and California Dreaming (1986), Wipe Out (1987), Still Cruisin' (1989), Problem Child (1989), Hot Fun in the Summertime (1992), I Can Hear Music (1966).
He did say hits. And quite a few of those are cover versions. Did Gagey mean songs written by the Beach Boys, but not BW?
And more importantly to me, I believed GM when he told me.
But a couple of the consortium thought Roland's price was too high. So we wait until another buyer comes along, or he lowers his price, or both. (My speculation here of course).
If your speculation is correct - it raises serious concerns.
We all know that a price of £40mn (or whatever) is a ridiculous over-valuation. But it seems that's what the Australians agreed to pay. (I'd suggest a more realistic price with ALL the Staprix debt written off and an acknowledgement of all the outstanding training ground work would be either something around £5-10mn with the status quo remaining on the ex-directors loans or £8-15mn with clean title.)
NONETHELESS, if £40mn is what the Australians agreed....well, a gentleman's word is his bond and all that....it does not bode well that they are might now be haggling as you suggest. The only conclusion one can reach is that this puts them firmly in one of three categories or possibly a mix of all three:
Option one - spivs - no better than Roland's predecessors; Option two - untrustworthy; or Option three - a bit dim.
We've recent and painful experience of all of those and I don't want to revisit them thanks very much.
Setting aside how obnoxious we perceive Roland to be for a minute, if any of us were him, would we not now to be telling the Aussies to swivel on it and start looking for a sale elsewhere with some more honourable counterparties?
That he apparently hasn't done that surely indicates that it's squeaky bum time for him. But I'm no longer feeling optimistic about what the Roland-free future holds.
The highlighted parts of your post are the big unanswered questions for me.
If the Aussies are anything like what you and others are suggesting then Duchatelet's bum must be well and truly squeaky in terms of selling the club, as not only is he continuing to negotiate with people who you suggest are either chancers or incompetents but, through his representative, it seems he's been prepared to 'misrepresent' the delay in completing the deal as "the Australian consortium have a deal fully agreed and just need to submit final papers to the EFL".
I keep reading these assertions that a price was agreed of £40m. I cannot recall where this first came from and crucially why this was considered to be authoritative information.
Just to remind ourselves, £40m would be more than double what he paid 4 years ago. In that time he has taken the club down a division and seen the customer base eroded by 30-50% depending on the measure used. That would reduce the sale value of a normal business. RD has spent £1m on the pitch, and spent a relatively small amount at the training ground. As for the human assets, they have been totally devastated.
What else has happened in 4 years that might increase the sale value? Revenue in the FAPL has twisted up again. However as usual little of that has filtered down the leagues. The buyer needs first to take the club into the 2nd tier, and somehow navigate the financial maelstrom there, before he can even think about reaching profitability in the FAPL.
Property prices in London have risen, but land use on the property assets is so closely proscribed that it cannot possibly justify such an increase in price, especially when other metrics have fallen.
What does the market say? While media reports of sales are hardly reliable, can anyone point to a tier 3 club that has been sold for anywhere near £40m? I don't think so. Furthermore, I have never heard anything about these "Saudis" from anyone except people on CL. But I have spoken with the Blackpool ST secretary who has met two solid potential buyers of Blackpool who both told BST that they had looked at Charlton earlier - and walked away. During the first few months of 2018.
So can anyone with better knowledge of corporate finance than me, e.g @cafcfan spot anything that I have missed? Because if not, we are left with the following conclusion:
The idea that £40m is an offered price is fantasy. Pie in the effing sky. Unicorn talk. No sensible sane business person or group would entertain such a price because there is no rational business reason to pay it.
And that my friends is before we consider what the "sale price", whether its £40m or £4m actually means. What about changes in human asset values? (player sales, how sell ons are dealt with, etc). Remember his exit from Standard Liege. A new owner took over who apparently discovered too late that he had not anticipated certain things that RD thought he was entitled to before exiting.
Please by all means criticise the above, but please try to do so based on normal parameters of business valuation. Lets try to rise above the social media bollocks factory and be clear-eyed.
I’m on honeymoon in Aruba and still check this thread once or twice a day. I think it’s an addiction
Bahama. Ooh I wanna take you to Bermuda. Bahama. Come on pretty mama.
The only Beach Boys hit not written by Brian Wilson
Apart from Why Do Fools Fall In Love (1964), Do You Wanna Dance and Barbara Ann (1965), Sloop John B (1966), Bluebirds Over The Mountain (1968), I Can Hear Music (1969), Cottonfields (1970), Long Promised Road (1971), California Saga: California (1973), Rock and Roll Music (1975), Peggy Sue (1978), Lady Linda (1979), Come Go With Me (1981), Getcha Back and It's getting Late (1985), She Believes In Love Again and California Dreaming (1986), Wipe Out (1987), Still Cruisin' (1989), Problem Child (1989), Hot Fun in the Summertime (1992), I Can Hear Music (1966).
Read this as Gertcha and thought, surely they didn't do that. Actually, I'd love to hear it.
I believe the £40m price tag was mentioned by @Redhenry many months ago. No idea if he is/was itk or whether he made it up. Its taken as gospel now though & like you, I would have thought anything above what he paid (c £18m inc debt) is a pisstake.
Last Saudi bid I heard was 40.5m which matched the Aussies at the time.
Reading all the posters that are questioning whether they want the Aussies now because they’re being, or have always been, devious:
I 100% believe that they did NOT set out to bid high, with the intention of later on reducing their bid. I’d be shocked if that was the case.
I’m quite sure GM expected the purchase to be done and dusted the week after our meeting. He wouldn’t have be so sure if he was planning to low ball Roland.
Whether they screwed up after that I don’t know. Whether new consortium members were needed I don’t know. I don’t know when, or even if, they decided his price was too high.
the Saudi’s showed their money enough to put in a firm offer they reached his number and got gazzumped by people that apart from buying a scarf and getting cheap cheers like wwe wrestlers have done nothing
They then walked away as they were at their number
Not a fake number by fake people
No. The Saudi's clearly didn't have the money to run the club or they simply weren't actually interested in the club.
I am fairly certain our latest bid received was not the same amount as the Aussies bid, however it was also accepted.
If the Saudi's had either the money or the interest, they'd own us by now.
Why they reached their limit and like in all auctions you know when to stop especially when the Aussies wouldn’t stop and seeing as they are only using Monopoly money why should they
Shame you can’t wake up and smell the coffee.
When they buy us I will drink coffee for the first time in years
But my coffee ban is well and truly safe
nla....you seem to be enjoying yourself making us all the more depressed. How much longer are you planning to go on finding countless ways of telling us exactly the same thing over and over again?
I don't think NLA enjoys it at all, I think he's just doing the same as others itk, by relaying what he's been told. The only problem is, people only seem to like good news (whether they know it to be wholly accurate or not) and what NLA is relaying, isn't necessarily what the majority of fans want to hear. The majority want to hear things like "It's gonna be a tough 2 weeks, but it'll be worth it in the end".
It seems to me that if you so much as question the Aussies in anyway, you get laughed at or jumped on.
My money is on NLA.
I don't know NLA personally, or James Seed or Airman or Doucher or Red Henry or Colin or anyone ITK. I just read the posts and NLA has stuck to his guns even when his posts have been pilloried. He has also been the most accurate, and this version of events ties in with what is transpiring at CAFC. So it'll do for me.
I keep reading these assertions that a price was agreed of £40m. I cannot recall where this first came from and crucially why this was considered to be authoritative information.
Just to remind ourselves, £40m would be more than double what he paid 4 years ago. In that time he has taken the club down a division and seen the customer base eroded by 30-50% depending on the measure used. That would reduce the sale value of a normal business. RD has spent £1m on the pitch, and spent a relatively small amount at the training ground. As for the human assets, they have been totally devastated.
What else has happened in 4 years that might increase the sale value? Revenue in the FAPL has twisted up again. However as usual little of that has filtered down the leagues. The buyer needs first to take the club into the 2nd tier, and somehow navigate the financial maelstrom there, before he can even think about reaching profitability in the FAPL.
Property prices in London have risen, but land use on the property assets is so closely proscribed that it cannot possibly justify such an increase in price, especially when other metrics have fallen.
What does the market say? While media reports of sales are hardly reliable, can anyone point to a tier 3 club that has been sold for anywhere near £40m? I don't think so. Furthermore, I have never heard anything about these "Saudis" from anyone except people on CL. But I have spoken with the Blackpool ST secretary who has met two solid potential buyers of Blackpool who both told BST that they had looked at Charlton earlier - and walked away. During the first few months of 2018.
So can anyone with better knowledge of corporate finance than me, e.g @cafcfan spot anything that I have missed? Because if not, we are left with the following conclusion:
The idea that £40m is an offered price is fantasy. Pie in the effing sky. Unicorn talk. No sensible sane business person or group would entertain such a price because there is no rational business reason to pay it.
And that my friends is before we consider what the "sale price", whether its £40m or £4m actually means. What about changes in human asset values? (player sales, how sell ons are dealt with, etc). Remember his exit from Standard Liege. A new owner took over who apparently discovered too late that he had not anticipated certain things that RD thought he was entitled to before exiting.
Please by all means criticise the above, but please try to do so based on normal parameters of business valuation. Lets try to rise above the social media bollocks factory and be clear-eyed.
I don't think there's much, if anything, in your post that I'd disagree with. The £40M figure is, clearly, pie in the sky and, as you say, there's a huge gulf between what RD might want and what potential buyers are prepared to pay.
The following link is perhaps worth reading (although it starts with the PL clubs): clearly there are many factors involved in determining a final price, including proximity to London, land values (real or potential), brand value and, most importantly, debt.
An example cited is Mansfield, which was sold for £1, on condition that the purchaser took on 50% of the erstwhile owner's debt.
Certainly RD's apparent strategy seems to go against the grain of normal corporate takeovers where failing businesses are concerned (and Charlton is certainly a failing business). There are many recent examples on the high street of businesses being sold for a token £1 + debt consolidation, with new owners consequently streamlining costs, closing stores and restructuring the business (and, in some cases I suppose you could call that asset stripping).
RD seems to be doing all of that before he's sold the business, but still wants top dollar for the club.
I'm convinced that, when he bought the club in 2014 (and without carrying out proper DD), he believed there were opportunites for redevelopment along the lines of what he's done at St Truiden. Once he'd realized that he didn't have clear title, because of former Director's loans, and that redevelopment was, in all practical terms, impossible, then he quickly lost interest in the club.
I don't know if anything came of the Chinese interest (and since new laws there preventing foreign investment there must be less competition around, and clubs should, theoretically, be cheaper). However, their interest in buying half the shares for £25-30M, thereby valuing the club at £60M, seems equally 'pie in the sky' to me. They may be in the Championship but their ground (10k odd capacity) is nowhere near PL ready, and they have huge operating losses.
So, if some think Brentford are worth £60M, you can't blame Roland, I suppose, for trying to sell us for £40M.
the Saudi’s showed their money enough to put in a firm offer they reached his number and got gazzumped by people that apart from buying a scarf and getting cheap cheers like wwe wrestlers have done nothing
They then walked away as they were at their number
Not a fake number by fake people
No. The Saudi's clearly didn't have the money to run the club or they simply weren't actually interested in the club.
I am fairly certain our latest bid received was not the same amount as the Aussies bid, however it was also accepted.
If the Saudi's had either the money or the interest, they'd own us by now.
Why they reached their limit and like in all auctions you know when to stop especially when the Aussies wouldn’t stop and seeing as they are only using Monopoly money why should they
Shame you can’t wake up and smell the coffee.
When they buy us I will drink coffee for the first time in years
But my coffee ban is well and truly safe
nla....you seem to be enjoying yourself making us all the more depressed. How much longer are you planning to go on finding countless ways of telling us exactly the same thing over and over again?
I don't think NLA enjoys it at all, I think he's just doing the same as others itk, by relaying what he's been told. The only problem is, people only seem to like good news (whether they know it to be wholly accurate or not) and what NLA is relaying, isn't necessarily what the majority of fans want to hear. The majority want to hear things like "It's gonna be a tough 2 weeks, but it'll be worth it in the end".
It seems to me that if you so much as question the Aussies in anyway, you get laughed at or jumped on.
My money is on NLA.
I don't know NLA personally, or James Seed or Airman or Doucher or Red Henry or Colin or anyone ITK. I just read the posts and NLA has stuck to his guns even when his posts have been pilloried. He has also been the most accurate, and this version of events ties in with what is transpiring at CAFC. So it'll do for me.
He’s repeatedly said the Aussies have walked when they haven’t. He’s repeatedly said ‘they’ve never had the dosh’, with no evidence, although he’s now backtracking by saying they may have the dosh but don’t want to pay an inflated price. He’s taken info from the Roland side at face value. He’s done everything he can to undermine the Aussies.
I’m not sure what else he’s said or done, but that ain’t good in my book.
At the end of the day, no-one on here knows all the details, only what they have been told by a "source". Which is the best source? who knows, but if only people could put on here what they have been told and let us read it, without the "I know more than you do", regular arguments. I do not care which ITK is right, I would just like to read any information passed on by their source and pick out the bits I like. Hopefully, one day it will happen and somebody or group will buy the club out, we will probably never know all the details, so let us just pass on any bits and wait. We are all Charlton supporters, let us not forget that
the Saudi’s showed their money enough to put in a firm offer they reached his number and got gazzumped by people that apart from buying a scarf and getting cheap cheers like wwe wrestlers have done nothing
They then walked away as they were at their number
Not a fake number by fake people
No. The Saudi's clearly didn't have the money to run the club or they simply weren't actually interested in the club.
I am fairly certain our latest bid received was not the same amount as the Aussies bid, however it was also accepted.
If the Saudi's had either the money or the interest, they'd own us by now.
Why they reached their limit and like in all auctions you know when to stop especially when the Aussies wouldn’t stop and seeing as they are only using Monopoly money why should they
Shame you can’t wake up and smell the coffee.
When they buy us I will drink coffee for the first time in years
But my coffee ban is well and truly safe
nla....you seem to be enjoying yourself making us all the more depressed. How much longer are you planning to go on finding countless ways of telling us exactly the same thing over and over again?
I don't think NLA enjoys it at all, I think he's just doing the same as others itk, by relaying what he's been told. The only problem is, people only seem to like good news (whether they know it to be wholly accurate or not) and what NLA is relaying, isn't necessarily what the majority of fans want to hear. The majority want to hear things like "It's gonna be a tough 2 weeks, but it'll be worth it in the end".
It seems to me that if you so much as question the Aussies in anyway, you get laughed at or jumped on.
My money is on NLA.
I don't know NLA personally, or James Seed or Airman or Doucher or Red Henry or Colin or anyone ITK. I just read the posts and NLA has stuck to his guns even when his posts have been pilloried. He has also been the most accurate, and this version of events ties in with what is transpiring at CAFC. So it'll do for me.
He’s repeatedly said the Aussies have walked when they haven’t. He’s repeatedly said ‘they’ve never had the dosh’, with no evidence, although he’s now backtracking by saying they may have the dosh but don’t want to pay an inflated price. He’s taken info from the Roland side at face value. He’s done everything he can to undermine the Aussies.
I’m not sure what else he’s said or done, but that ain’t good in my book.
They might not have walked but they haven't taken over? They might have the money but they haven't taken over?
He has partly undermined the Aussie bid because he believes they don't have the finances. I don't necessarily share that view because I don't have enough information but so far all the evidence he needs is that the Aussies are not our owners.
If they had the funds and Roland wants to sell then that leaves very few reasons as to why it hasn't happened.
the Saudi’s showed their money enough to put in a firm offer they reached his number and got gazzumped by people that apart from buying a scarf and getting cheap cheers like wwe wrestlers have done nothing
They then walked away as they were at their number
Not a fake number by fake people
No. The Saudi's clearly didn't have the money to run the club or they simply weren't actually interested in the club.
I am fairly certain our latest bid received was not the same amount as the Aussies bid, however it was also accepted.
If the Saudi's had either the money or the interest, they'd own us by now.
Why they reached their limit and like in all auctions you know when to stop especially when the Aussies wouldn’t stop and seeing as they are only using Monopoly money why should they
Shame you can’t wake up and smell the coffee.
When they buy us I will drink coffee for the first time in years
But my coffee ban is well and truly safe
nla....you seem to be enjoying yourself making us all the more depressed. How much longer are you planning to go on finding countless ways of telling us exactly the same thing over and over again?
I don't think NLA enjoys it at all, I think he's just doing the same as others itk, by relaying what he's been told. The only problem is, people only seem to like good news (whether they know it to be wholly accurate or not) and what NLA is relaying, isn't necessarily what the majority of fans want to hear. The majority want to hear things like "It's gonna be a tough 2 weeks, but it'll be worth it in the end".
It seems to me that if you so much as question the Aussies in anyway, you get laughed at or jumped on.
My money is on NLA.
I don't know NLA personally, or James Seed or Airman or Doucher or Red Henry or Colin or anyone ITK. I just read the posts and NLA has stuck to his guns even when his posts have been pilloried. He has also been the most accurate, and this version of events ties in with what is transpiring at CAFC. So it'll do for me.
He’s repeatedly said the Aussies have walked when they haven’t. He’s repeatedly said ‘they’ve never had the dosh’, with no evidence, although he’s now backtracking by saying they may have the dosh but don’t want to pay an inflated price. He’s taken info from the Roland side at face value. He’s done everything he can to undermine the Aussies.
I’m not sure what else he’s said or done, but that ain’t good in my book.
the Saudi’s showed their money enough to put in a firm offer they reached his number and got gazzumped by people that apart from buying a scarf and getting cheap cheers like wwe wrestlers have done nothing
They then walked away as they were at their number
Not a fake number by fake people
No. The Saudi's clearly didn't have the money to run the club or they simply weren't actually interested in the club.
I am fairly certain our latest bid received was not the same amount as the Aussies bid, however it was also accepted.
If the Saudi's had either the money or the interest, they'd own us by now.
Why they reached their limit and like in all auctions you know when to stop especially when the Aussies wouldn’t stop and seeing as they are only using Monopoly money why should they
Shame you can’t wake up and smell the coffee.
When they buy us I will drink coffee for the first time in years
But my coffee ban is well and truly safe
nla....you seem to be enjoying yourself making us all the more depressed. How much longer are you planning to go on finding countless ways of telling us exactly the same thing over and over again?
I don't think NLA enjoys it at all, I think he's just doing the same as others itk, by relaying what he's been told. The only problem is, people only seem to like good news (whether they know it to be wholly accurate or not) and what NLA is relaying, isn't necessarily what the majority of fans want to hear. The majority want to hear things like "It's gonna be a tough 2 weeks, but it'll be worth it in the end".
It seems to me that if you so much as question the Aussies in anyway, you get laughed at or jumped on.
My money is on NLA.
I don't know NLA personally, or James Seed or Airman or Doucher or Red Henry or Colin or anyone ITK. I just read the posts and NLA has stuck to his guns even when his posts have been pilloried. He has also been the most accurate, and this version of events ties in with what is transpiring at CAFC. So it'll do for me.
How can it be accurate? He said consistently the Aussie’s don’t have the funds but now we have two sources claiming the Aussies have passed the fit and proper EFL test. That means they do have the funds. Last night he changed his tune to ‘don’t have the funds or not willing to pay the price’.Remember his source is coming from the Roland camp. Would you trust Roland? All this Aussie bashing is mighty suspicious.
"undermine the Aussies"???? sorry mate they are doing it themselves. The only person who has herd fuck from Skippy and Co is you and its someone on the end on the phone saying fuck all.
If it was just a case of the Aussies not having the cash then they would have walked, and the club and the EFL both wouldnt have been satisfied they did have the money. Neither has a credible reason for lying about the Aussies having the cash
If it was just a case of them not wanting to spend the money the RD could have binned them off months ago and/or gone back to the supposed Saudi bid.
Therefore something else is going on. None of the actions and leaks from the club and the Aussies makes sense in the context of what we know, so there is something we don't know causing the current situation to drag on as it has.
My money is on some complications from the spivs reign causing problems that have left the takeover in limbo until resolved. RD is having trouble resolving them, but won't admit that, so is claiming EFL issues for the delay.
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Just to remind ourselves, £40m would be more than double what he paid 4 years ago. In that time he has taken the club down a division and seen the customer base eroded by 30-50% depending on the measure used. That would reduce the sale value of a normal business. RD has spent £1m on the pitch, and spent a relatively small amount at the training ground. As for the human assets, they have been totally devastated.
What else has happened in 4 years that might increase the sale value? Revenue in the FAPL has twisted up again. However as usual little of that has filtered down the leagues. The buyer needs first to take the club into the 2nd tier, and somehow navigate the financial maelstrom there, before he can even think about reaching profitability in the FAPL.
Property prices in London have risen, but land use on the property assets is so closely proscribed that it cannot possibly justify such an increase in price, especially when other metrics have fallen.
What does the market say? While media reports of sales are hardly reliable, can anyone point to a tier 3 club that has been sold for anywhere near £40m? I don't think so. Furthermore, I have never heard anything about these "Saudis" from anyone except people on CL. But I have spoken with the Blackpool ST secretary who has met two solid potential buyers of Blackpool who both told BST that they had looked at Charlton earlier - and walked away. During the first few months of 2018.
So can anyone with better knowledge of corporate finance than me, e.g @cafcfan spot anything that I have missed? Because if not, we are left with the following conclusion:
The idea that £40m is an offered price is fantasy. Pie in the effing sky. Unicorn talk. No sensible sane business person or group would entertain such a price because there is no rational business reason to pay it.
And that my friends is before we consider what the "sale price", whether its £40m or £4m actually means. What about changes in human asset values? (player sales, how sell ons are dealt with, etc). Remember his exit from Standard Liege. A new owner took over who apparently discovered too late that he had not anticipated certain things that RD thought he was entitled to before exiting.
Please by all means criticise the above, but please try to do so based on normal parameters of business valuation. Lets try to rise above the social media bollocks factory and be clear-eyed.
What a f****** farce.
This was back in Feb as an indication on price
Potential buyers came to look, and quickly walked away.
If the Aussies are anything like what you and others are suggesting then Duchatelet's bum must be well and truly squeaky in terms of selling the club, as not only is he continuing to negotiate with people who you suggest are either chancers or incompetents but, through his representative, it seems he's been prepared to 'misrepresent' the delay in completing the deal as "the Australian consortium have a deal fully agreed and just need to submit final papers to the EFL".
https://www.cafc.co.uk/news/view/5b7dc1d66a6ea/club-answer-fans-forum-takeover-questions
I 100% believe that they did NOT set out to bid high, with the intention of later on reducing their bid. I’d be shocked if that was the case.
I’m quite sure GM expected the purchase to be done and dusted the week after our meeting. He wouldn’t have be so sure if he was planning to low ball Roland.
Whether they screwed up after that I don’t know. Whether new consortium members were needed I don’t know.
I don’t know when, or even if, they decided his price was too high.
But they didn’t walk. Not yet anyway.
The following link is perhaps worth reading (although it starts with the PL clubs): clearly there are many factors involved in determining a final price, including proximity to London, land values (real or potential), brand value and, most importantly, debt.
https://www.quora.com/How-much-money-would-it-cost-to-take-over-an-english-football-club
An example cited is Mansfield, which was sold for £1, on condition that the purchaser took on 50% of the erstwhile owner's debt.
Certainly RD's apparent strategy seems to go against the grain of normal corporate takeovers where failing businesses are concerned (and Charlton is certainly a failing business). There are many recent examples on the high street of businesses being sold for a token £1 + debt consolidation, with new owners consequently streamlining costs, closing stores and restructuring the business (and, in some cases I suppose you could call that asset stripping).
RD seems to be doing all of that before he's sold the business, but still wants top dollar for the club.
I'm convinced that, when he bought the club in 2014 (and without carrying out proper DD), he believed there were opportunites for redevelopment along the lines of what he's done at St Truiden. Once he'd realized that he didn't have clear title, because of former Director's loans, and that redevelopment was, in all practical terms, impossible, then he quickly lost interest in the club.
Just an aside on the price though, take a look at this article from the FT from last year concerning Brentford: https://www.ft.com/content/369a7a94-2030-11e7-a454-ab04428977f9
I don't know if anything came of the Chinese interest (and since new laws there preventing foreign investment there must be less competition around, and clubs should, theoretically, be cheaper). However, their interest in buying half the shares for £25-30M, thereby valuing the club at £60M, seems equally 'pie in the sky' to me. They may be in the Championship but their ground (10k odd capacity) is nowhere near PL ready, and they have huge operating losses.
So, if some think Brentford are worth £60M, you can't blame Roland, I suppose, for trying to sell us for £40M.
He’s repeatedly said ‘they’ve never had the dosh’, with no evidence, although he’s now backtracking by saying they may have the dosh but don’t want to pay an inflated price.
He’s taken info from the Roland side at face value.
He’s done everything he can to undermine the Aussies.
I’m not sure what else he’s said or done, but that ain’t good in my book.
They might have the money but they haven't taken over?
He has partly undermined the Aussie bid because he believes they don't have the finances. I don't necessarily share that view because I don't have enough information but so far all the evidence he needs is that the Aussies are not our owners.
If they had the funds and Roland wants to sell then that leaves very few reasons as to why it hasn't happened.
offlineto Makros!I haven’t said they have walked away I said the deal is dead and the Aussies don’t have the money
He's played us all.
If it was just a case of the Aussies not having the cash then they would have walked, and the club and the EFL both wouldnt have been satisfied they did have the money. Neither has a credible reason for lying about the Aussies having the cash
If it was just a case of them not wanting to spend the money the RD could have binned them off months ago and/or gone back to the supposed Saudi bid.
Therefore something else is going on. None of the actions and leaks from the club and the Aussies makes sense in the context of what we know, so there is something we don't know causing the current situation to drag on as it has.
My money is on some complications from the spivs reign causing problems that have left the takeover in limbo until resolved. RD is having trouble resolving them, but won't admit that, so is claiming EFL issues for the delay.