Let the genie out of the box now and it will be hard to put it back. Was always going to have a massive impact on football. The game is about celebrating like mad when your team score, not waiting in case it is over ruled.
Turned off the spurs game yesterday when it went 2-0...put it on at the start of the second half and couldn't believe my eyes when I saw it was 1-0...is there anyone here still in favour of it....
Southampton, Norwich, Wolves, Sheffield United, + 1 other. Five decent goals this weekend erased from football history for no reason other than mental masturbation at Stockley Park.
Disagree. Changing the offside rule will not change anything. They will still be drawing soppy lines to see if there is 'daylight.' It could make it worse. What after all is 'daylight'? What if it's an evening game?
Not been in here before. Watched the wolves vLiv game Absolute f*****g disgrace
VAR is footballs suicide note if you ask me.
Imagine being a wolves fan. You fork out a fu**** fortune to watch your side against the top of the league. Not expecting much. You score a perfectly good goal. You wait. The twats in the booth disallow it. You weren't expecting much. Refs are always homers in this situation. But this is another level! probably say to myself that I am never ever forking out for a game again. Bent as f**k
I said at the time that this whole concept was taking it a million miles away from grass roots. I have been proved right.
4 Fu***** jobs worth's in a booth.are killing this game.
I hate VAR. I’d much rather have officials making honest mistakes than waiting five minutes for some bloke who isn’t even in the ground deciding that because a striker forgot to clip his toe nails that morning he was offside. It’s effing ridiculous and ruining the game not improving it.
I think both the off-side rule and VAR need changing.
Off-side was introduced to stop goal hanging. That we don't have a problem with goal hanging now, is down to the success of that rule. There is an issue though because a whole number of goals get disallowed where there is no goal hanging anyway. Players and fans alike are being cheated. I'm not saying that it would make things perfect, but they'd be a lot better if we reverted to the clear daylight rule. It would at least redress the disadvantage that attackers currently have in some small way. Also, as my son likes to argue, it would make the off-side law consistent with the other laws of the game. The ball is out of play when it has wholly passed over the goal line or touchline... A goal is scored when the whole of the ball passes over the goal line... Why do these areas of the game require 100% completeness whilst for off-side any old partiality will do? It is ridiculous.
VAR: If it can't be chucked out as bad rubbish, it should at least be used as a measure of last resort for the "clear and obvious errors" we were promised. Not used at every tick and turn like some technophile's wet dream.
I think both the off-side rule and VAR need changing.
Off-side was introduced to stop goal hanging. That we don't have a problem with goal hanging now, is down to the success of that rule. There is an issue though because a whole number of goals get disallowed where there is no goal hanging anyway. Players and fans alike are being cheated. I'm not saying that it would make things perfect, but they'd be a lot better if we reverted to the clear daylight rule. It would at least redress the disadvantage that attackers currently have in some small way. Also, as my son likes to argue, it would make the off-side law consistent with the other laws of the game. The ball is out of play when it has wholly passed over the goal line or touchline... A goal is scored when the whole of the ball passes over the goal line... Why do these areas of the game require 100% completeness whilst for off-side any old partiality will do? It is ridiculous.
VAR: If it can't be chucked out as bad rubbish, it should at least be used as a measure of last result for the "clear and obvious errors" we were promised. Not used at every tick and turn like some technophile's wet dream.
That's exactly it, it's a technophiles wet dream.
Those people that unquestioningly believe that all new technology must, by definition, be an improvement and have apps to tell them when to walk the dog or drink water must be creaming themselves on a daily basis, whacking one out as the set squares come out and different coloured lines get drawn all over the screen.
The rest of us just scratch our heads and think it's all a bit wanky and sad.
I think both the off-side rule and VAR need changing.
Off-side was introduced to stop goal hanging. That we don't have a problem with goal hanging now, is down to the success of that rule. There is an issue though because a whole number of goals get disallowed where there is no goal hanging anyway. Players and fans alike are being cheated. I'm not saying that it would make things perfect, but they'd be a lot better if we reverted to the clear daylight rule. It would at least redress the disadvantage that attackers currently have in some small way. Also, as my son likes to argue, it would make the off-side law consistent with the other laws of the game. The ball is out of play when it has wholly passed over the goal line or touchline... A goal is scored when the whole of the ball passes over the goal line... Why do these areas of the game require 100% completeness whilst for off-side any old partiality will do? It is ridiculous.
VAR: If it can't be chucked out as bad rubbish, it should at least be used as a measure of last result for the "clear and obvious errors" we were promised. Not used at every tick and turn like some technophile's wet dream.
Was thinking this earlier this evening. If a ball has to be 100% over the line before it's a goal then by that logic a player should be 100% offside......ie, all of him. Not a foot, an arm or a knee.....but all of him. So back to the "daylight" rule of yesteryear. (Although, for @jimmymelrose, I'd re-prase it as "space" between the 2 players).
The daylight rule sounds good but this would only have the officials looking in the minutest detail as to whether they can see the tiniest speck of light between the players.
I'd rather they limit the time to make a VAR decision. If no decision can be made within, say, one minute of the process starting then the onfield decision stands.
Trouble is there will always be a marginal line with the offside rule regardless what it is... Change it so it has to be the foot level and we'll see these same millimetres used to determine the current decisions
Even if the officials allowed there to be a margin of error, there will still be cases where an offside will be given because thats become marginal
Once again it feels like the clubs have shouted for a decision, in this case technology to be used because decisions were going against them but didnt think of the ramifications, all they managed to think of was the thought of the referees making all the right calls in their favour and nothing further
I think both the off-side rule and VAR need changing.
Off-side was introduced to stop goal hanging. That we don't have a problem with goal hanging now, is down to the success of that rule. There is an issue though because a whole number of goals get disallowed where there is no goal hanging anyway. Players and fans alike are being cheated. I'm not saying that it would make things perfect, but they'd be a lot better if we reverted to the clear daylight rule. It would at least redress the disadvantage that attackers currently have in some small way. Also, as my son likes to argue, it would make the off-side law consistent with the other laws of the game. The ball is out of play when it has wholly passed over the goal line or touchline... A goal is scored when the whole of the ball passes over the goal line... Why do these areas of the game require 100% completeness whilst for off-side any old partiality will do? It is ridiculous.
VAR: If it can't be chucked out as bad rubbish, it should at least be used as a measure of last result for the "clear and obvious errors" we were promised. Not used at every tick and turn like some technophile's wet dream.
That's exactly it, it's a technophiles wet dream.
Those people that unquestioningly believe that all new technology must, by definition, be an improvement and have apps to tell them when to walk the dog or drink water must be creaming themselves on a daily basis, whacking one out as the set squares come out and different coloured lines get drawn all over the screen.
The rest of us just scratch our heads and think it's all a bit wanky and sad.
I like new technology and gadgets. Love it!
I absolutely hate VAR. Hate it, hate it, hate it. It’s killing the best part of football, which is celebrating goals. It takes the life out of football. So glad it’s not in the Championship (yet at least).
How you come to the conclusion that a person who loves new technology also loves to see football being destroyed, is a great mystery to me.
I think both the off-side rule and VAR need changing.
Off-side was introduced to stop goal hanging. That we don't have a problem with goal hanging now, is down to the success of that rule. There is an issue though because a whole number of goals get disallowed where there is no goal hanging anyway. Players and fans alike are being cheated. I'm not saying that it would make things perfect, but they'd be a lot better if we reverted to the clear daylight rule. It would at least redress the disadvantage that attackers currently have in some small way. Also, as my son likes to argue, it would make the off-side law consistent with the other laws of the game. The ball is out of play when it has wholly passed over the goal line or touchline... A goal is scored when the whole of the ball passes over the goal line... Why do these areas of the game require 100% completeness whilst for off-side any old partiality will do? It is ridiculous.
VAR: If it can't be chucked out as bad rubbish, it should at least be used as a measure of last result for the "clear and obvious errors" we were promised. Not used at every tick and turn like some technophile's wet dream.
That's exactly it, it's a technophiles wet dream.
Those people that unquestioningly believe that all new technology must, by definition, be an improvement and have apps to tell them when to walk the dog or drink water must be creaming themselves on a daily basis, whacking one out as the set squares come out and different coloured lines get drawn all over the screen.
The rest of us just scratch our heads and think it's all a bit wanky and sad.
I like new technology and gadgets. Love it!
I absolutely hate VAR. Hate it, hate it, hate it. It’s killing the best part of football, which is celebrating goals. It takes the life out of football. So glad it’s not in the Championship (yet at least).
How you come to the conclusion that a person who loves new technology also loves to see football being destroyed, is a great mystery to me.
But I didnt say "everybody who loves technology", did i? I said "those people that unquestioningly believe that all new technology must, by definition, be an improvement".
From what you said it doesnt seem as though that includes you, so it's not aimed at you. (But I will keep the camera on you, just in case.) ;-)
I think both the off-side rule and VAR need changing.
Off-side was introduced to stop goal hanging. That we don't have a problem with goal hanging now, is down to the success of that rule. There is an issue though because a whole number of goals get disallowed where there is no goal hanging anyway. Players and fans alike are being cheated. I'm not saying that it would make things perfect, but they'd be a lot better if we reverted to the clear daylight rule. It would at least redress the disadvantage that attackers currently have in some small way. Also, as my son likes to argue, it would make the off-side law consistent with the other laws of the game. The ball is out of play when it has wholly passed over the goal line or touchline... A goal is scored when the whole of the ball passes over the goal line... Why do these areas of the game require 100% completeness whilst for off-side any old partiality will do? It is ridiculous.
VAR: If it can't be chucked out as bad rubbish, it should at least be used as a measure of last result for the "clear and obvious errors" we were promised. Not used at every tick and turn like some technophile's wet dream.
That's exactly it, it's a technophiles wet dream.
Those people that unquestioningly believe that all new technology must, by definition, be an improvement and have apps to tell them when to walk the dog or drink water must be creaming themselves on a daily basis, whacking one out as the set squares come out and different coloured lines get drawn all over the screen.
The rest of us just scratch our heads and think it's all a bit wanky and sad.
I like new technology and gadgets. Love it!
I absolutely hate VAR. Hate it, hate it, hate it. It’s killing the best part of football, which is celebrating goals. It takes the life out of football. So glad it’s not in the Championship (yet at least).
How you come to the conclusion that a person who loves new technology also loves to see football being destroyed, is a great mystery to me.
But I didnt say "everybody who loves technology", did i? I said "those people that unquestioningly believe that all new technology must, by definition, be an improvement".
From what you said it doesnt seem as though that includes you, so it's not aimed at you. (But I will keep the camera on you, just in case.) ;-)
But you did however say that it was a technophile's dream. I would almost consider myself a bit of a technophile. If I can get a gadget, which makes life easier, I would consider buying it. This could be adding 'smart devices' to the house (e.g. automatically turn on/off things).
I do however agree with you, that not all new technology necessarily is an improvement.
Anyway, back to topic: We both agree that VAR is crap!
I think both the off-side rule and VAR need changing.
Off-side was introduced to stop goal hanging. That we don't have a problem with goal hanging now, is down to the success of that rule. There is an issue though because a whole number of goals get disallowed where there is no goal hanging anyway. Players and fans alike are being cheated. I'm not saying that it would make things perfect, but they'd be a lot better if we reverted to the clear daylight rule. It would at least redress the disadvantage that attackers currently have in some small way. Also, as my son likes to argue, it would make the off-side law consistent with the other laws of the game. The ball is out of play when it has wholly passed over the goal line or touchline... A goal is scored when the whole of the ball passes over the goal line... Why do these areas of the game require 100% completeness whilst for off-side any old partiality will do? It is ridiculous.
VAR: If it can't be chucked out as bad rubbish, it should at least be used as a measure of last result for the "clear and obvious errors" we were promised. Not used at every tick and turn like some technophile's wet dream.
That's exactly it, it's a technophiles wet dream.
Those people that unquestioningly believe that all new technology must, by definition, be an improvement and have apps to tell them when to walk the dog or drink water must be creaming themselves on a daily basis, whacking one out as the set squares come out and different coloured lines get drawn all over the screen.
The rest of us just scratch our heads and think it's all a bit wanky and sad.
I like new technology and gadgets. Love it!
I absolutely hate VAR. Hate it, hate it, hate it. It’s killing the best part of football, which is celebrating goals. It takes the life out of football. So glad it’s not in the Championship (yet at least).
How you come to the conclusion that a person who loves new technology also loves to see football being destroyed, is a great mystery to me.
But I didnt say "everybody who loves technology", did i? I said "those people that unquestioningly believe that all new technology must, by definition, be an improvement".
From what you said it doesnt seem as though that includes you, so it's not aimed at you. (But I will keep the camera on you, just in case.) ;-)
But you did however say that it was a technophile's dream. I would almost consider myself a bit of a technophile. If I can get a gadget, which makes life easier, I would consider buying it. This could be adding 'smart devices' to the house (e.g. automatically turn on/off things).
I do however agree with you, that not all new technology necessarily is an improvement.
Anyway, back to topic: We both agree that VAR is crap!
Lol, dont get me started on my telly keep deciding to turn itself off when I'm watching it and giving me a countdown whilst I try to find where the kids have left the remote!
But yes, I think we're on the same side here. Its crap and not doing the job it was promised to do, ie resolving "clear and obvious" errors.
The application of VAR needs to be amended and the offside law itself needs to be amended.
What was wrong with the old law of having to have two opposition players between the attacker and the goal when the ball was played and you couldn't be offside in your own half?
It was said earlier in this discussion that offside is a binary decision suited to technology because you're either further forward than the defender i.e. offside, or you're not. Unfortunately there are so many shades of grey to this now with phases of play, interfering with play etc that it's become a joke.
Technology may be able to determine the exact positions of players relative to each other to say yea or nay to offside but do they always pick the correct moment in time i.e. when the pass is made, to judge the positions? A fraction of a second either way (e.g. when the passer's foot first makes contact with the ball compared to when the ball leaves the passer's foot) can give a wildly different answer.
In the Norwich game on Saturday the commentators' original thought when Pukki's goal went to VAR was that they were checking whether he'd come back from an offside position and made himself onside, not his position on the pitch when the pass was made. As far as I'm concerned, once you've got yourself back into an onside position - either back into your own half or you've got two defenders between you and the oppo goal - then you can become active in the play again so that shouldn't even have been a thought. In the end VAR decided that Pukki's sleeve was about 5 nanometres offside.
Other sports have an offside law but they don't seem to have the controversy that football does.
Ice hockey has a simple offside rule: a blue line across the rink to create an attacking zone, if the puck crosses the line and an attacking player is already in the zone then he's offside.
American football's offside law ensures that all players are the correct side of the ball at the start of each individual play; if you move forward before the ball is snapped to start the play you're offside.
Rugby's offside law can be a bit complicated but the general rule is you can't gain an advantage from being ahead of the ball. You can bring yourself back onside by coming back behind the ball either through your own movement or that of the ball carrier.
In comparison, football's offside law is a dog's dinner.
Goal-line technology works because you've only got to look in one place: where the ball is. Technology isn't so flash for offside because you've got to look at where the attacker is, where the defender is, and, crucially, when the ball is played forward ... and they aren't always in the same camera shot.
Comments
Useles
Just look at how the numerous incidents aren't even getting mentioned in threads like this any more. It's a farce.
VAR is a crime against football.
As soon as the season ends change offside back to daylight and problem solved.
Watched the wolves vLiv game
Absolute f*****g disgrace
VAR is footballs suicide note if you ask me.
Imagine being a wolves fan. You fork out a fu**** fortune to watch your side against the top of the league. Not expecting much. You score a perfectly good goal. You wait.
The twats in the booth disallow it. You weren't expecting much. Refs are always homers in this situation. But this is another level!
probably say to myself that I am never ever forking out for a game again. Bent as f**k
I said at the time that this whole concept was taking it a million miles away from grass roots. I have been proved right.
4 Fu***** jobs worth's in a booth.are killing this game.
Change it or lose it
Off-side was introduced to stop goal hanging. That we don't have a problem with goal hanging now, is down to the success of that rule. There is an issue though because a whole number of goals get disallowed where there is no goal hanging anyway. Players and fans alike are being cheated. I'm not saying that it would make things perfect, but they'd be a lot better if we reverted to the clear daylight rule. It would at least redress the disadvantage that attackers currently have in some small way. Also, as my son likes to argue, it would make the off-side law consistent with the other laws of the game. The ball is out of play when it has wholly passed over the goal line or touchline... A goal is scored when the whole of the ball passes over the goal line... Why do these areas of the game require 100% completeness whilst for off-side any old partiality will do? It is ridiculous.
VAR: If it can't be chucked out as bad rubbish, it should at least be used as a measure of last resort for the "clear and obvious errors" we were promised. Not used at every tick and turn like some technophile's wet dream.
Those people that unquestioningly believe that all new technology must, by definition, be an improvement and have apps to tell them when to walk the dog or drink water must be creaming themselves on a daily basis, whacking one out as the set squares come out and different coloured lines get drawn all over the screen.
The rest of us just scratch our heads and think it's all a bit wanky and sad.
If a ball has to be 100% over the line before it's a goal then by that logic a player should be 100% offside......ie, all of him. Not a foot, an arm or a knee.....but all of him. So back to the "daylight" rule of yesteryear. (Although, for @jimmymelrose, I'd re-prase it as "space" between the 2 players).
Even if the officials allowed there to be a margin of error, there will still be cases where an offside will be given because thats become marginal
Once again it feels like the clubs have shouted for a decision, in this case technology to be used because decisions were going against them but didnt think of the ramifications, all they managed to think of was the thought of the referees making all the right calls in their favour and nothing further
I absolutely hate VAR. Hate it, hate it, hate it. It’s killing the best part of football, which is celebrating goals. It takes the life out of football. So glad it’s not in the Championship (yet at least).
How you come to the conclusion that a person who loves new technology also loves to see football being destroyed, is a great mystery to me.
Do away with it. All anti var people here predicted this at the start of the season.
From what you said it doesnt seem as though that includes you, so it's not aimed at you. (But I will keep the camera on you, just in case.)
;-)
I would almost consider myself a bit of a technophile.
If I can get a gadget, which makes life easier, I would consider buying it. This could be adding 'smart devices' to the house (e.g. automatically turn on/off things).
I do however agree with you, that not all new technology necessarily is an improvement.
Anyway, back to topic: We both agree that VAR is crap!
But yes, I think we're on the same side here. Its crap and not doing the job it was promised to do, ie resolving "clear and obvious" errors.
What was wrong with the old law of having to have two opposition players between the attacker and the goal when the ball was played and you couldn't be offside in your own half?
It was said earlier in this discussion that offside is a binary decision suited to technology because you're either further forward than the defender i.e. offside, or you're not. Unfortunately there are so many shades of grey to this now with phases of play, interfering with play etc that it's become a joke.
Technology may be able to determine the exact positions of players relative to each other to say yea or nay to offside but do they always pick the correct moment in time i.e. when the pass is made, to judge the positions? A fraction of a second either way (e.g. when the passer's foot first makes contact with the ball compared to when the ball leaves the passer's foot) can give a wildly different answer.
In the Norwich game on Saturday the commentators' original thought when Pukki's goal went to VAR was that they were checking whether he'd come back from an offside position and made himself onside, not his position on the pitch when the pass was made. As far as I'm concerned, once you've got yourself back into an onside position - either back into your own half or you've got two defenders between you and the oppo goal - then you can become active in the play again so that shouldn't even have been a thought. In the end VAR decided that Pukki's sleeve was about 5 nanometres offside.
Other sports have an offside law but they don't seem to have the controversy that football does.
Ice hockey has a simple offside rule: a blue line across the rink to create an attacking zone, if the puck crosses the line and an attacking player is already in the zone then he's offside.
American football's offside law ensures that all players are the correct side of the ball at the start of each individual play; if you move forward before the ball is snapped to start the play you're offside.
Rugby's offside law can be a bit complicated but the general rule is you can't gain an advantage from being ahead of the ball. You can bring yourself back onside by coming back behind the ball either through your own movement or that of the ball carrier.
In comparison, football's offside law is a dog's dinner.
Goal-line technology works because you've only got to look in one place: where the ball is. Technology isn't so flash for offside because you've got to look at where the attacker is, where the defender is, and, crucially, when the ball is played forward ... and they aren't always in the same camera shot.