I find it a bit laughable that some are slagging Robinson for saying that some players are not playing for the shirt yet when Jackson says it then he gets Praise.
What does come out is that both KR and JJ are right. That dressing room dissent is very much down to Robinson. If he can't sort that pdq which I don't think he can then we are bang in trouble.
Because if you were at the game it's clearly Robinson's tactical ineptitude that's the problem. Jacko is hardly going to blame the manager is he?
So Jackson is lying and the players are giving 100% ? Interesting take.
I find it a bit laughable that some are slagging Robinson for saying that some players are not playing for the shirt yet when Jackson says it then he gets Praise.
What does come out is that both KR and JJ are right. That dressing room dissent is very much down to Robinson. If he can't sort that pdq which I don't think he can then we are bang in trouble.
Because if you were at the game it's clearly Robinson's tactical ineptitude that's the problem. Jacko is hardly going to blame the manager is he?
So Jackson is lying and the players are giving 100% ? Interesting take.
We've changed all the players, that didn't work, changed some seats, that didn't work, put in undersoil heating, that didn't work changed the scouts, that didn't work, changed all the managers, that didn't work, , promised a new training ground, that didn't work, sold our best players, that didn't work.
Can't think of anything else that hasn't changed in three years that might make a difference... hold on...nailed it, we've still got the same bloody fans.
We could change the CEO
Bloody genius.
Next you'll be suggesting a change of owner, come on...... really?
I find it a bit laughable that some are slagging Robinson for saying that some players are not playing for the shirt yet when Jackson says it then he gets Praise.
What does come out is that both KR and JJ are right. That dressing room dissent is very much down to Robinson. If he can't sort that pdq which I don't think he can then we are bang in trouble.
Because if you were at the game it's clearly Robinson's tactical ineptitude that's the problem. Jacko is hardly going to blame the manager is he?
So Jackson is lying and the players are giving 100% ? Interesting take.
Yeah that's exactly what I said isn't it.
Well Jackson blamed some of the players.
He didn't call them deadwood
I know it's a term you dislike because you dug me out for using it about ten years ago. It is a term that has relevance and particularly if there are players not wanting to pull on the shirt. We know that's true because we've heard it from both the manager and club legend JJ.
If they don't want to play and pull their weight then calling them deadwood is fine by me.
I find it a bit laughable that some are slagging Robinson for saying that some players are not playing for the shirt yet when Jackson says it then he gets Praise.
What does come out is that both KR and JJ are right. That dressing room dissent is very much down to Robinson. If he can't sort that pdq which I don't think he can then we are bang in trouble.
Because if you were at the game it's clearly Robinson's tactical ineptitude that's the problem. Jacko is hardly going to blame the manager is he?
So Jackson is lying and the players are giving 100% ? Interesting take.
Yeah that's exactly what I said isn't it.
Well Jackson blamed some of the players.
He didn't call them deadwood
I know it's a term you dislike because you dug me out for using it about ten years ago. It is a term that has relevance and particularly if there are players not wanting to pull on the shirt. We know that's true because we've heard it from both the manager and club legend JJ.
If they don't want to play and pull their weight then calling them deadwood is fine by me.
No, we didn't hear it from JJ. He said players werent given their best.
It's a cheap, nasty term in any circumstances but when you expect that "deadwood" to play for you in three days time it's a terrible and counter-productive term.
If that is how he thinks about and talks to players maybe that's why some don't want to play for him and why were looking at a relegation fight.
Tarbuck took MK Dons down and couldn't stop their losing run. He got sacked and now Franchise are above us as he can't stop the rot here either.
But, why have we got yet another group of players under RD's reign not giving their all.
That for me is the real question.
2 answers to that, I would say.
1. I can't imagine that assessing a player's personality forms a significant part of our recruitment process. Curbishley used to talk a lot about signing personalities that fit in with the Charlton mentality, I doubt that Fat Karl even bothered to meet all of his January signings.
2. The effect of poor management on staff attitudes. Doesn't matter whether it's a football team or an office - if you're working for a bad manager, or in a poorly managed environment, then it will inevitably effect your performance, and your motivation to do well.
Personally don't attach any blame whatsoever to the players. I doubt I would have it in me to give 100% every week against that shambolic backdrop.
I got into a discussion with my old man about it on the car on the way home after getting dropped off by the coach last night.
He's of the opinion that the players should be doing better which I agree with to a certain extent, but I was trying to put across my point about the culture being rotten, because what's the one constant in these 3 years. I think he misinterpreted my choice of words when I said 'who/what has always been there during these 3 years' because he took it literally and said that Roland isn't always there.
Obviously I meant there as in the owner of the club. Doesn't matter how much interaction (if any) the players have with KM & RD, it's the aura and the culture, that's what I mean by being 'there'.
In my work we talk a lot about company culture and although it brings out the management bollocks/buzzwords it's a massive factor on performance if it's not a good culture.
As an example, I work in telesales. When I first started I was 24 and one of a number of young lads, lots of banter, pub, drinks blah blah blah, all very poor man's wolf of Wall Street. Now I'm 35, if I went for another job in a similar role it would be important to me not to be in some environment with a bunch of me's from 10 years ago, I'm not interested in that anymore.
Goes back to your point re: the culture that was built under Curbs and even Powell.
Top down Murray, Varney, Curbs, Kinsella, Robinson, Supporters, the Trust, the players, the kit man, the stewards, everyone in a similar cultural space, everyone brings their best self or as near as possible to the club, day in day out.
Culture of cancer and disease which reflects the RD era 2014 - present RD, KM, Keohane, 9 managers, Naby Sarr, Tony Watt, Andre Bikey, Roger Johnson, Ba, CARD, WAR and a protest fund.
Now I'm obviously not digging out CARD, WAR or the protest fund being a supporter, but these are by products of a cancerous culture and none of it would've even been imagined under the Curbs era.
But, why have we got yet another group of players under RD's reign not giving their all.
That for me is the real question.
2 answers to that, I would say.
1. I can't imagine that assessing a player's personality forms a significant part of our recruitment process. Curbishley used to talk a lot about signing personalities that fit in with the Charlton mentality, I doubt that Fat Karl even bothered to meet all of his January signings.
2. The effect of poor management on staff attitudes. Doesn't matter whether it's a football team or an office - if you're working for a bad manager, or in a poorly managed environment, then it will inevitably effect your performance, and your motivation to do well.
Personally don't attach any blame whatsoever to the players. I doubt I would have it in me to give 100% every week against that shambolic backdrop.
I got into a discussion with my old man about it on the car on the way home after getting dropped off by the coach last night.
He's of the opinion that the players should be doing better which I agree with to a certain extent, but I was trying to put across my point about the culture being rotten, because what's the one constant in these 3 years. I think he misinterpreted my choice of words when I said 'who/what has always been there during these 3 years' because he took it literally and said that Roland isn't always there.
Obviously I meant there as in the owner of the club. Doesn't matter how much interaction (if any) the players have with KM & RD, it's the aura and the culture, that's what I mean by being 'there'.
In my work we talk a lot about company culture and although it brings out the management bollocks/buzzwords it's a massive factor on performance if it's not a good culture.
As an example, I work in telesales. When I first started I was 24 and one of a number of young lads, lots of banter, pub, drinks blah blah blah, all very poor man's wolf of Wall Street. Now I'm 35, if I went for another job in a similar role it would be important to me not to be in some environment with a bunch of me's from 10 years ago, I'm not interested in that anymore.
Goes back to your point re: the culture that was built under Curbs and even Powell.
Top down Murray, Varney, Curbs, Kinsella, Robinson, Supporters, the Trust, the players, the kit man, the stewards, everyone in a similar cultural space, everyone brings their best self or as near as possible to the club, day in day out.
Culture of cancer and disease which reflects the RD era 2014 - present RD, KM, Keohane, 9 managers, Naby Sarr, Tony Watt, Andre Bikey, Roger Johnson, Ba, CARD, WAR and a protest fund.
Now I'm obviously not digging out CARD, WAR or the protest fund being a supporter, but these are by products of a cancerous culture and none of it would've even been imagined under the Curbs era.
Sounds 100 times more of a manager, coach and motivator than Jimmy Tarbuck
He's saying things in black and white rather than talking in riddles i.e.
We need to start winning, as simple as that,
We go in 2-1 up, we’ve got to come out in the second-half and keep it tight
At half time I tweeted: 'Feel we need to strengthen the defence for the second half.' It wasn't rocket science, I'm sure many of us were thinking the same.
Perhaps should have taken off Magennis and put on Page as left back with JJ switched to the middle? If KR gets the push they should make JJ the caretaker and see how he gets on. They won't of course, because they don't know what they're doing.
I prefer Henry's idea. If JJ were to come in and even caretaker the club now he is likely to have put the death knell on his career as a manager before it has even started. Unless he had a Lennie or even a Slade like character guiding him then he would do well to stay away from the Charlton managerial seat for now.
Bit disappointed in Jackson here. As Captain and senior pro he also has a responsibility to the players in the squad. However they have played it isn't good form being seen to be supportive of the Manager who is blaming anyone and everyone to try and deflect his own responsibility. As others have said, anyone obviously not pulling their weight should be out. Robinson has pointed the finger all around his squad and keeps rotating the same players back in for another go. Hard to see anyone being frozen out here.
Sounds 100 times more of a manager, coach and motivator than Jimmy Tarbuck
Much better delivery of the message, but he's essentially backing up what Robinson said.
Yes but saying it in a far less damaging way, accepting much more responsibility himself and leaving the door open for players to improve unlike Tarbuck's self centered rant.
If an employee has put in a bad performance you can say "you're shit, I never want you working for me again" or you can say "that's not good enough, I expect more from you next time".
One is final, the other gives the person a chance to improve and doesn't make you look like a twat to all the rest of your staff.
If players have crossed the line and disrespect ed the shirt and club then don't play them.
"because we’ve got too many good players to keep producing what is going on. Obviously we’re falling short somewhere – whether it’s mentally or physically on the pitch or both."
The writer drew the inference that JJ was supporting KRs assertion that 40% of squad weren't trying but the above has him saying something else entirely. He could as easily be having a dig at Robbo's set up, selection and tactics. The clue is the quoteation marks.
"because we’ve got too many good players to keep producing what is going on. Obviously we’re falling short somewhere – whether it’s mentally or physically on the pitch or both."
The writer drew the inference that JJ was supporting KRs assertion that 40% of squad weren't trying but the above has him saying something else entirely. He could as easily be having a dig at Robbo's set up, selection and tactics. The clue is the quoteation marks.
I think the first part of JJ's quote that you've strangely chosen to ignore makes it clear enough:
“I don’t think we can keep losing like this and then roll out the narrative that everyone is doing their best and trying their hardest – because we’ve got too many good players to keep producing what is going on."
If Robinson were to be sacked, it's not hard to imagine an immediate transformation akin to Leicester's against Liverpool immediately after Ranieri's ousting.
If Robinson were to be sacked, it's not hard to imagine an immediate transformation akin to Leicester's against Liverpool immediately after Ranieri's ousting.
"because we’ve got too many good players to keep producing what is going on. Obviously we’re falling short somewhere – whether it’s mentally or physically on the pitch or both."
The writer drew the inference that JJ was supporting KRs assertion that 40% of squad weren't trying but the above has him saying something else entirely. He could as easily be having a dig at Robbo's set up, selection and tactics. The clue is the quoteation marks.
The question I asked included reference to Robinson's comments and asked if some characters in the dressing room needed tellling what it takes to play for Charlton and Jackson responded that they get told and the same thing keeps happening.
I find it a bit laughable that some are slagging Robinson for saying that some players are not playing for the shirt yet when Jackson says it then he gets Praise.
What does come out is that both KR and JJ are right. That dressing room dissent is very much down to Robinson. If he can't sort that pdq which I don't think he can then we are bang in trouble.
Because if you were at the game it's clearly Robinson's tactical ineptitude that's the problem. Jacko is hardly going to blame the manager is he?
So Jackson is lying and the players are giving 100% ? Interesting take.
Yeah that's exactly what I said isn't it.
Well Jackson blamed some of the players.
He didn't call them deadwood
I know it's a term you dislike because you dug me out for using it about ten years ago. It is a term that has relevance and particularly if there are players not wanting to pull on the shirt. We know that's true because we've heard it from both the manager and club legend JJ.
If they don't want to play and pull their weight then calling them deadwood is fine by me.
My feeling on that is if you publicly call someone deadwood during what is now quite frankly a relegation scrap, they're unlikely to react to that with an all-action stunning performance next game. Are we really going to turn up against the likes of Sheff Utd and Bradford when the manager has essentially told 40% of his squad they can f off? I suspect not.
Who actually loses if we get relegated? RD loses more revenue stream, good, KM may get the bullet, good, the SMT might get the bullet, good, KR might get the bullet...meh, some of the mercenaries in the squad will get what they want and be sold on to earn fraudulent wages elesewhere, good. RD may actually sell up, after all, he doesn't do failure.
I've come to this thread a bit late and haven't read all the posts. So maybe it has already been said. Would the club captain be allowed to speak his mind freely or is this our captain being told what to say?
Who the fuck including Jacko allowed Nathan Bryne to be the last man 1 on 1'from our corner that is schoolboy shite defending, your always go 2 against 1 or 3 against 2, where the fuck was Jacko for their second goal, what the fuck was Rudd doing for the second goal, the whole team is fuckin pony the manger is fuckin pony. Watch goals 2'and 3 again they are a disgrace.
"because we’ve got too many good players to keep producing what is going on. Obviously we’re falling short somewhere – whether it’s mentally or physically on the pitch or both."
The writer drew the inference that JJ was supporting KRs assertion that 40% of squad weren't trying but the above has him saying something else entirely. He could as easily be having a dig at Robbo's set up, selection and tactics. The clue is the quoteation marks.
The question I asked included reference to Robinson's comments and asked if some characters in the dressing room needed tellling what it takes to play for Charlton and Jackson responded that they get told and the same thing keeps happening.
About time they were dropped then, otherwise what it actually "takes to play for Charlton" is exactly what they are doing, because... well.. they're still playing for Charlton.
"because we’ve got too many good players to keep producing what is going on. Obviously we’re falling short somewhere – whether it’s mentally or physically on the pitch or both."
The writer drew the inference that JJ was supporting KRs assertion that 40% of squad weren't trying but the above has him saying something else entirely. He could as easily be having a dig at Robbo's set up, selection and tactics. The clue is the quoteation marks.
The question I asked included reference to Robinson's comments and asked if some characters in the dressing room needed tellling what it takes to play for Charlton and Jackson responded that they get told and the same thing keeps happening.
About time they were dropped then, otherwise what it actually "takes to play for Charlton" is exactly what they are doing, because... well.. they're still playing for Charlton.
Our team selection changes every match anyway, so most players during the last month have been "dropped". Holmes, Magennis, Crofts, Botaka, Novak, Aribo etc I'm pretty sure Rudd is the only person who's started every match in February (maybe Konsa as well)
And we had no CBs other than Konsa and Tex available on Tuesday anyway
3 of Shrewsbury's goals were us getting caught out pressing high and failing to recover when losing possession. That's a Robinson tactic that is costing us goals every single week. Robinson is the only person to blame for that.
Well for me JJ stopped being a left back about 4 or 5 years ago. You have to adapt your formation to suit the players you have.
That's my concern with KR. It's alright saying Powell got a new squad and went up as champions but he wasn't so fixed on one way of playing. He wanted to play a passing game but to get results we used Yann as a target man and went more direct. He focused on good defending rather than outscoring the opposition. It worked.
We're now left hoping KR gets to rebuild the squad in a similar way (under RD... no chance) and he gets the players he needs to play his style (4-2-3-1, energetic, plenty of goals, high pressing etc). I struggle to see how all that will come together in the way it did in 11/12.
When Robbo says it how it is hes called a mouthy scouse c*nt. Then when Jacko pretty much repeats what Robbo says, we talk about what a club legend Jacko is. I dont get it.
Me neither, I don't like or dislike the bloke, but certainly feel he is getting unfair treatment. I do not see the players, playing for the badge, the manager or one another.
They in my opinion are like disgruntled workers. Their SMT have made mistakes and their manager may seem a decent bloke, but it doesn't stop them wanting to leave...
When Robbo says it how it is hes called a mouthy scouse c*nt. Then when Jacko pretty much repeats what Robbo says, we talk about what a club legend Jacko is. I dont get it.
Partly because it's pretty much Robinsons fault that the dressing room is so bad.
Please do prove this. From what I've heard he's liked by the players.
Comments
If they don't want to play and pull their weight then calling them deadwood is fine by me.
It's a cheap, nasty term in any circumstances but when you expect that "deadwood" to play for you in three days time it's a terrible and counter-productive term.
If that is how he thinks about and talks to players maybe that's why some don't want to play for him and why were looking at a relegation fight.
Tarbuck took MK Dons down and couldn't stop their losing run. He got sacked and now Franchise are above us as he can't stop the rot here either.
And however much I loved Yann, Johnnie is my favourite Charlton player ever.
I'd much rather get relegated with kids that care, rather than mercenaries that are openly mocking the club/watching fans.
If an employee has put in a bad performance you can say "you're shit, I never want you working for me again" or you can say "that's not good enough, I expect more from you next time".
One is final, the other gives the person a chance to improve and doesn't make you look like a twat to all the rest of your staff.
If players have crossed the line and disrespect ed the shirt and club then don't play them.
The writer drew the inference that JJ was supporting KRs assertion that 40% of squad weren't trying but the above has him saying something else entirely. He could as easily be having a dig at Robbo's set up, selection and tactics. The clue is the quoteation marks.
“I don’t think we can keep losing like this and then roll out the narrative that everyone is doing their best and trying their hardest – because we’ve got too many good players to keep producing what is going on."
And we had no CBs other than Konsa and Tex available on Tuesday anyway
We're now left hoping KR gets to rebuild the squad in a similar way (under RD... no chance) and he gets the players he needs to play his style (4-2-3-1, energetic, plenty of goals, high pressing etc). I struggle to see how all that will come together in the way it did in 11/12.
They in my opinion are like disgruntled workers. Their SMT have made mistakes and their manager may seem a decent bloke, but it doesn't stop them wanting to leave... Please do prove this. From what I've heard he's liked by the players.