For as skeptical as I can be of him, and as worried as I am that we might have broken him by giving him too much too soon, it's always good to tie your even remotely promising youngsters down to longer deals to ensure you can get some money for them and not go through the tribunal process. To be fair to this regime, they've been better at that than others in recent times. Still wish he'd gotten a loan move though.
Bob Peters was encouraged to play young players and for some reason KAG who hadn't played any U21 matches (well he was only just 17) was thrown in the deep end. Gomez was strong enough to cope. KAG was never ready for Championship football.
he is now two years later at the same level of Hanlan, decent at Academy level but still to prove at League level. Not sure why he keeps being played on the Left recently. I really need to be convinced this is his best position.
Would have liked to seen him out on a season long loan to a league 1 side. He's behind Hanlan in the pecking order now, and maybe even Umerah.
From what I've seen of him, he certainly has something about him. Though he was older than 18.
This is why the new loan system rule will hinder youth development and have a long term affect on the national team doing well. The rule should be that only players under the age of 21 and under can be loaned outside of the transfer window
Still think he'll come good. It was only a couple of seasons ago he was banging them in for fun in the youth teams. Easy to forget he made his debut two weeks after his 17th birthday.
Would have liked to seen him out on a season long loan to a league 1 side. He's behind Hanlan in the pecking order now, and maybe even Umerah.
From what I've seen of him, he certainly has something about him. Though he was older than 18.
This is why the new loan system rule will hinder youth development and have a long term affect on the national team doing well. The rule should be that only players under the age of 21 and under can be loaned outside of the transfer window
Although I hope that I am wrong I don't think he will ever make it.
I can honestly say that I have seen him play a fair few times now and never once I have ever been impressed.
In contrast when Hanlon came on Saturday, I thought that he had something about him and in my opinion in a short space of time he showed potential.
When we lost 3-0 @ Fulham under Bob Peeters he came on and IMO was our best player and really looked a great threat against them (more so than anyone else).
Not sure I buy the "we threw him in too early and ruined him" comments. He certainly got given his chance earlier than he was ready for but I don't think the crowd ever got on his back so his confidence should have soared not reduced. Some players just develop later than others (or not at all) and I think playing them too early or too late is probably fairly immaterial to it all.
Not sure I buy the "we threw him in too early and ruined him" comments. He certainly got given his chance earlier than he was ready for but I don't think the crowd ever got on his back so his confidence should have soared not reduced. Some players just develop later than others (or not at all) and I think playing them too early or too late is probably fairly immaterial to it all.
I disagree to a point about playing too early - In the context he was thrust into a leaderless ever changing side and be expected to thrive. Some may as you say deal with it, but if it's done without planning you cannot expect him to learn and develop further. Particularly in the shape of the side he was playing - sometimes up front on his own, was total madness. He has the potential and this contract suggests the new management see it too.
We've seen in the past how plunging them in too early can have a long term affect on confidence when an understandably upset crowd overlooks age and forms an instant opinion that becomes hard to shake off. He looks to have bulked up a bit and has a great turn of pace. Probably a good time for a loan that could really help determine his future. Be great to welcome him back with some goals under his belt and the confidence those would surely bring.
Not sure I buy the "we threw him in too early and ruined him" comments. He certainly got given his chance earlier than he was ready for but I don't think the crowd ever got on his back so his confidence should have soared not reduced. Some players just develop later than others (or not at all) and I think playing them too early or too late is probably fairly immaterial to it all.
I'm not sure, for example, somebody like Curbs would agree with you.
Curbs was never afraid to blood a good young player early to give match experience - but subsequently limited that player's game time and allowed him to develop without pressure; Paul Konchesky and Scott Parker were two who benefited from this approach.
What he didn't do was to keep chucking a raw youngster into a struggling side and expecting him to perform like an experienced pro.
Not sure I buy the "we threw him in too early and ruined him" comments. He certainly got given his chance earlier than he was ready for but I don't think the crowd ever got on his back so his confidence should have soared not reduced. Some players just develop later than others (or not at all) and I think playing them too early or too late is probably fairly immaterial to it all.
I'm not sure, for example, somebody like Curbs would agree with you.
Curbs was never afraid to blood a good young player early to give match experience - but subsequently limited that player's game time and allowed him to develop without pressure; Paul Konchesky and Scott Parker were two who benefited from this approach.
What he didn't do was to keep chucking a raw youngster into a struggling side and expecting him to perform like an experienced pro.
Not too sure if he has shown enough natural quality to get three years if I'm honest. Felt the same about Joe Pigott and he ended up doing practically zero for us in the end.
I would have given him an extra year, maybe two to see if he could break into the side at League One level.
I suggest some of you try to develop and grow your career under the sheer carnage of a football club we have been over the past 30 months.
By all means seize on a "new beginning" if you wish but whatever your assessment of the individual talents, we have seen any number of senior players, providing they could keep their contract terms in place, want to get out from under, even Holmes-Dennis when given the chance took the first opportunity to leave.
Lookman apart, not one single forward, to date, has prospered under this regime because the fundamental weakness of the squad, the never ending change of coaches, and inadequate medical care have invariably failed them all from Tucudean, Watt, Vetokele, Makienok etc.,
Peeters played Ahearne Grant not because such promotion was geared to the players natural development but to prop up a squad because in reality he had few other options, at times he even pushed Bikey up front.
It was a "punt" from which everybody lost out.
So perhaps we can see how the young man develops within a "grown up" senior squad. Yes he is competing with the likes of Magennis, Ajose, Novak, Hanlan, Umerah but that is as it should be.
I wish the lad the very best and am pleased he has been given the time needed to develop his career.
Not too sure if he has shown enough natural quality to get three years if I'm honest. Felt the same about Joe Pigott and he ended up doing practically zero for us in the end.
I would have given him an extra year, maybe two to see if he could break into the side at League One level.
But I think that has to do more with protecting the player's value. he won't be on much. If he comes good, great, if not he has the natural athleticism that means a club lower down will almost certainly take a punt on him.
I think I've mentioned this before but one of the big problem areas I find in the English game is coaching and development between the ages of 18-21. It seems that if a player doesn't come into a team by 18/19 he's considered not good enough, but if he does, he's in a team until he plays well and then he's slowly cast off if his form dips. It's such an important time in a players' development, they should be just really learning about their own physique and where they fit in in the game. And yet it seems as though if they're good enough to play in the first team, they're just chucked in, but not given any extra coaching to continue their education.
Not too sure if he has shown enough natural quality to get three years if I'm honest. Felt the same about Joe Pigott and he ended up doing practically zero for us in the end.
I would have given him an extra year, maybe two to see if he could break into the side at League One level.
But I think that has to do more with protecting the player's value. he won't be on much. If he comes good, great, if not he has the natural athleticism that means a club lower down will almost certainly take a punt on him.
I think I've mentioned this before but one of the big problem areas I find in the English game is coaching and development between the ages of 18-21. It seems that if a player doesn't come into a team by 18/19 he's considered not good enough, but if he does, he's in a team until he plays well and then he's slowly cast off if his form dips. It's such an important time in a players' development, they should be just really learning about their own physique and where they fit in in the game. And yet it seems as though if they're good enough to play in the first team, they're just chucked in, but not given any extra coaching to continue their education.
Agree with this and why im happy Lookman is being eased into things. Lets keep him as a Super sub for a while longer
RD wants smaller squads so young players get a chance.
What he doesn't understand is these players will develop better playing in a strong team and when they're ready. It's right not to have huge squads that mean they never get much of chance, but forcing 17/18 year olds to be our main cover isn't the way to do it. Gomez was an exception, everyone knew he was that good and ready to handle it.
KAG looked one of our most promising players at the time when he made his debut. He turned 17 not long after the season started. The rest of his age group had stepped into their first year of u18 football. He had been top scorer in the u18s for the previous two seasons as a schoolboy. Before he could even settle into u21 football he was coming off the bench in the first team.
Hanlan and Umerah might look more impressive initially but they're both more physical which stands out. As a goalscorer he was doing it in the u18s at a younger age. I'm not convinced he'll make it with us but he still has the potential to.
RD wants smaller squads so young players get a chance.
What he doesn't understand is these players will develop better playing in a strong team and when they're ready. It's right not to have huge squads that mean they never get much of chance, but forcing 17/18 year olds to be our main cover isn't the way to do it. Gomez was an exception, everyone knew he was that good and ready to handle it.
KAG looked one of our most promising players at the time when he made his debut. He turned 17 not long after the season started. The rest of his age group had stepped into their first year of u18 football. He had been top scorer in the u18s for the previous two seasons as a schoolboy. Before he could even settle into u21 football he was coming off the bench in the first team.
Hanlan and Umerah might look more impressive initially but they're both more physical which stands out. As a goalscorer he was doing it in the u18s at a younger age. I'm not convinced he'll make it with us but he still has the potential to.
Comments
For as skeptical as I can be of him, and as worried as I am that we might have broken him by giving him too much too soon, it's always good to tie your even remotely promising youngsters down to longer deals to ensure you can get some money for them and not go through the tribunal process. To be fair to this regime, they've been better at that than others in recent times. Still wish he'd gotten a loan move though.
From what I've seen of him, he certainly has something about him. Though he was older than 18.
KAG who hadn't played any U21 matches (well he was only just 17)
was thrown in the deep end. Gomez was strong enough to cope.
KAG was never ready for Championship football.
he is now two years later at the same level of Hanlan, decent at Academy level but still to prove at League level. Not sure why he keeps being played on the Left recently. I really need to be convinced this is his best position.
I can honestly say that I have seen him play a fair few times now and never once I have ever been impressed.
In contrast when Hanlon came on Saturday, I thought that he had something about him and in my opinion in a short space of time he showed potential.
Thankfully he is only 18 so has plenty of time
Exposed a bit early to first team championship football, may come back. Good luck.!
Cunning planning from the circus master yet again.
Curbs was never afraid to blood a good young player early to give match experience - but subsequently limited that player's game time and allowed him to develop without pressure; Paul Konchesky and Scott Parker were two who benefited from this approach.
What he didn't do was to keep chucking a raw youngster into a struggling side and expecting him to perform like an experienced pro.
I would have given him an extra year, maybe two to see if he could break into the side at League One level.
By all means seize on a "new beginning" if you wish but whatever your assessment of the individual talents, we have seen any number of senior players, providing they could keep their contract terms in place, want to get out from under, even Holmes-Dennis when given the chance took the first opportunity to leave.
Lookman apart, not one single forward, to date, has prospered under this regime because the fundamental weakness of the squad, the never ending change of coaches, and inadequate medical care have invariably failed them all from Tucudean, Watt, Vetokele, Makienok etc.,
Peeters played Ahearne Grant not because such promotion was geared to the players natural development but to prop up a squad because in reality he had few other options, at times he even pushed Bikey up front.
It was a "punt" from which everybody lost out.
So perhaps we can see how the young man develops within a "grown up" senior squad. Yes he is competing with the likes of Magennis, Ajose, Novak, Hanlan, Umerah but that is as it should be.
I wish the lad the very best and am pleased he has been given the time needed to develop his career.
I think I've mentioned this before but one of the big problem areas I find in the English game is coaching and development between the ages of 18-21. It seems that if a player doesn't come into a team by 18/19 he's considered not good enough, but if he does, he's in a team until he plays well and then he's slowly cast off if his form dips. It's such an important time in a players' development, they should be just really learning about their own physique and where they fit in in the game. And yet it seems as though if they're good enough to play in the first team, they're just chucked in, but not given any extra coaching to continue their education.
What he doesn't understand is these players will develop better playing in a strong team and when they're ready. It's right not to have huge squads that mean they never get much of chance, but forcing 17/18 year olds to be our main cover isn't the way to do it. Gomez was an exception, everyone knew he was that good and ready to handle it.
KAG looked one of our most promising players at the time when he made his debut. He turned 17 not long after the season started. The rest of his age group had stepped into their first year of u18 football. He had been top scorer in the u18s for the previous two seasons as a schoolboy. Before he could even settle into u21 football he was coming off the bench in the first team.
Hanlan and Umerah might look more impressive initially but they're both more physical which stands out. As a goalscorer he was doing it in the u18s at a younger age. I'm not convinced he'll make it with us but he still has the potential to.