When Kashi and Diarra return we'll have the best holding midfielders in the history of League One. Our current problem is that they're both injured but on the wage bill, making Roland + Katrien extremely reluctant to sign more people in their position. Until they return we will have to make do with Crofts or Foley. The signing priority should be an attacking (or at least mobile) central midfielder.
Whenever I read this nonsense I think of the icon of my favourite Czech team, Viktoria Plzen. His name is Pavel Horvath, also a central midfielder. When he joined them in 2008 he was already 33, yet he led their march from provincial second raters to the most successful Czech team of recent years. Each year I thought, surely he will hang up his boots next season. But no. In 2013 at the age of 37 he played the entire game at the Etihad in the UCL as Viktorka had the impertinence to draw level twice against Citeh before finally succumbing 4-2. He hardly moved let alone tackled, in his final seasons, but as a dead ball and play switch long ball specialist he 's up there with Beckham. Most of all he's an icon both to fans and colleagues not least because of his legendary drinking capacity (check that timber). Finally retired at 39 but is now their assistant coach.
He was central to both team and club, and embodied what was best about them. And he was a very intelligent footballer. I think all the same can be said about Jacko. So where is the difference in the two cases? I just can't work it out.....
A player with 19 international caps for a then-superpower of European football (concurrent with Nedved ffs) and Johnnie Jackson. I like you Prague but that's ludicrous.
JJ would be a perfect coach. Bury game made us look mugs because their midfield was SO energetic, pacy and strong. We have none of those qualities. Good footballers nowadays need to be either surrounded by good athletes or be the athletes themselves. We have neither so look leggy and lethargic.
Maybe someone like Regan Charles-Cook beside him would be beneficial but he's a bit too raw
Not entirely sure you can say that when our midfield - and more precisely our central midfield - is manifestly the #1 cause of our on-field ineptitude
JJ takes up a whole place in the midfield and I'm not sure we can afford it. His best bet is to play off the front two, leave the mobility to the mobile
I was referring to the other problems at the club - you know the off field issues.
However, re the playing side of things. We can afford him taking up a place in midfield - it's quite simple, remove Crofts or Foley - who offer about as much pace as a mobility scooter with 4 punctures.
Whilst I agree that JJ is some times painful to watch in terms of getting about the pitch, he offers a goal scoring threat. He and Solly are just about the only thing left of what's good about the club.
'with players up to his standard' jesus. Shall we see who's up to his standard then?
Rudd = yes Solly = yes Pearce = yes Rojo Bauer, Lennon, Tex (?!) = yes Fox = yes! I would say yes Lookman = yes (albeit inexperienced) Holmes = yes Crofts = not sure yet, but he has good pedigree Ajose = yes Novak = proven L1 scorer, also not fit yet. so yes
Our problem is a lack of credible back-up and a lack of central midfielders. JJ is a central midfielder. These are not hard maths.
See, the problem there is that real life football isn't like Football Manager. You can't just buy decent players in certain positions and then everything will be fine. A decent right back isn't going to help Jackson. We're really struggling at the moment because we have absolutely nothing linking the phases of play in the middle. When people talk about there being players up to Jackson's standard they mean in the centre of midfield. Jackson is a good tackler, passer and finisher. He's not very mobile, and that's what he needs alongside him for his strengths to be useful. At the moment he's being paired with another player who isn't mobile, isn't dynamic and plays very similarly to him. I think Jackson would be great in a midfield three, but he'd even benefit in a 4-4-2 playing alongside Ba. A bit of movement, some support around him and some speed in the middle of the park and we'd get the most out of him. Right now though we're lining up in the most significant part of teh pitch with the wrong players and it'll kill us
I certainly agree that Ba should be the first choice CM of uninjured players we currently have. Whether Jackson or Crofts accompany him is another matter.
To think that some people on here slagged off Cousins yet can stick up for Jackson is hilarious. Maybe with someone like Thompson next to him he could do a job but I still don't think he's simply good enough to control the midfield going forward on his own.
To think that some people on here slagged off Cousins yet can stick up for Jackson is hilarious. Maybe with someone like Thompson next to him he could do a job but I still don't think he's simply good enough to control the midfield going forward on his own.
Name me one player in football history who was able to control a midfield on his own? Even the greats like Scholes, Iniesta and Karim Bagheri needed support!
To think that some people on here slagged off Cousins yet can stick up for Jackson is hilarious. Maybe with someone like Thompson next to him he could do a job but I still don't think he's simply good enough to control the midfield going forward on his own.
Name me one player in football history who was able to control a midfield on his own? Even the greats like Scholes, Iniesta and Karim Bagheri needed support!
At this level you can afford to have a Stephens and a Pritchard for example Pritchards only role to be to run around and disturb the oppositions play, and Stephens to carry and pass it forward. We have neither of them roles now. Crofts, Foley and Jackson are basically equally slow versions of eachother and we're trying to cram them into the same midfield.
There does seem to be a viewpoint that we move everything around and build the team around slotting him in to midfield.
No player is bigger than the team as a whole. At present we have nothing else, so it appears he will be starting and this is a moot point.
But I dont want to compromise any position. I dont want to say - well we can carry him if he has someone energetic next to him. I want two energetic people in the middle of the park, as that is what will have us competing in this league. Whether we get that is another matter.
Do I want him around the club in general? 100% - and frankly, the way its looking, I would look at him as Head Coach sooner rather than later.
A player with 19 international caps for a then-superpower of European football (concurrent with Nedved ffs) and Johnnie Jackson. I like you Prague but that's ludicrous.
:-)
I rather expected someone to say that the pace is slower in Continental footballer, and indeed it is. Tomas Repka returned to Sparta from his mass card collecting spell at the Hammers, and I actually saw for the first time his class as he played in a sweeper role. But he didn't continue as long as Horvath. I guess my point was that the whole club decided that it was worth making up for his waning physical power, and built the team accordingly. Seems to me poor Jackson is in footballing terms just one of RD's "midfielders" on the spreadsheet.
A player with 19 international caps for a then-superpower of European football (concurrent with Nedved ffs) and Johnnie Jackson. I like you Prague but that's ludicrous.
:-)
I rather expected someone to say that the pace is slower in Continental footballer, and indeed it is. Tomas Repka returned to Sparta from his mass card collecting spell at the Hammers, and I actually saw for the first time his class as he played in a sweeper role. But he didn't continue as long as Horvath. I guess my point was that the whole club decided that it was worth making up for his waning physical power, and built the team accordingly. Seems to me poor Jackson is in footballing terms just one of RD's "midfielders" on the spreadsheet.
Prague, I also like you, but nowhere in Leuth's post did he mention the pace of continental football. A clever strawman
I certainly agree that Ba should be the first choice CM of uninjured players we currently have. Whether Jackson or Crofts accompany him is another matter.
I honestly can't understand why Slade seems to dislike him so much. He wasn't much use last season but his dynamism will leave a lot of League One journeymen midfielder trailing behind him in this league. Got to be better than what we're doing now
Anyway. Jacko. Wow. What do I say about a man whose presence at this club has meant so much?
Let's start with the cons, because they're there:
- His non-existent pace has now gone, which is a worry - He's late into challenges and likes a foul - Can't remember the last time I saw him take a dead ball (not necessarily a con, but genuinely can't remember)
Pros:
- We all love him - His mentality is second to essentially none - Knows what he wants to do with the ball or in space or where the play "should" be - Captain captain captain - Seems to get timely goals
But, for all of this - his lack of mobility, and the way he plays the game, means he needs some shielding. We don't have a squad that could accommodate Jacko, who is rapidly becoming a luxury player. We don't have a system from the squad we have that accommodates him.
Possibly as a holding midfielder, a la Pirlo (bear with me), but then we'd need two CMs in front (Kashi and Diarra when fit) to cover his weaknesses. Which are purely physical - his footballing mind is obvious. But that's no use if you can't execute what you envisage.
Then that'd be interesting. Konsa's pace can cover Jacko, as can Kashi's workrate; Diarra is class and fairly mobile... Yeah. That allows Jacko as a luxury.
However, that central midfield is months away from a return, and until such time as it does return, we need to sign someone. Crofts and Foley aren't strong enough - phyiscally, technically, or mentally. And Jacko - lacking most in the physical department - accordingly struggles because of the nature of L1.
JJ isn't the problem but his position ain't left midfield anymore. If Brussell is going to play him, he needs to sit in front of the back four and dictate play from there #legsgone
A player with 19 international caps for a then-superpower of European football (concurrent with Nedved ffs) and Johnnie Jackson. I like you Prague but that's ludicrous.
:-)
I rather expected someone to say that the pace is slower in Continental footballer, and indeed it is. Tomas Repka returned to Sparta from his mass card collecting spell at the Hammers, and I actually saw for the first time his class as he played in a sweeper role. But he didn't continue as long as Horvath. I guess my point was that the whole club decided that it was worth making up for his waning physical power, and built the team accordingly. Seems to me poor Jackson is in footballing terms just one of RD's "midfielders" on the spreadsheet.
Prague, I also like you, but nowhere in Leuth's post did he mention the pace of continental football. A clever strawman
yeh, what I meant to say was that i expected the continental pace thing, rather than what Leuth said.. oh **** it, this thread is always crap.
Anyway. Jacko. Wow. What do I say about a man whose presence at this club has meant so much?
Let's start with the cons, because they're there:
- His non-existent pace has now gone, which is a worry - He's late into challenges and likes a foul - Can't remember the last time I saw him take a dead ball (not necessarily a con, but genuinely can't remember)
Pros:
- We all love him - His mentality is second to essentially none - Knows what he wants to do with the ball or in space or where the play "should" be - Captain captain captain - Seems to get timely goals
But, for all of this - his lack of mobility, and the way he plays the game, means he needs some shielding. We don't have a squad that could accommodate Jacko, who is rapidly becoming a luxury player. We don't have a system from the squad we have that accommodates him.
Possibly as a holding midfielder, a la Pirlo (bear with me), but then we'd need two CMs in front (Kashi and Diarra when fit) to cover his weaknesses. Which are purely physical - his footballing mind is obvious. But that's no use if you can't execute what you envisage.
Then that'd be interesting. Konsa's pace can cover Jacko, as can Kashi's workrate; Diarra is class and fairly mobile... Yeah. That allows Jacko as a luxury.
However, that central midfield is months away from a return, and until such time as it does return, we need to sign someone. Crofts and Foley aren't strong enough - phyiscally, technically, or mentally. And Jacko - lacking most in the physical department - accordingly struggles because of the nature of L1.
Switch Jackson in front of Kashi and Diarra and I see a lot of merit in it (maybe)
We dont need to build a team around JJ. He isnt Messi.
All this trying to retrofit players around the team to keep him in is ridiculous.
I get what he means to fans and the man love etc - but first and foremost we are in serious danger in my eyes of dropping down to league 2 if we dont get a midfield to compete (and thats no compromises across the 4 or 5 players).
It's terribly sad when we want Ba to be our first choice CM
I know what you mean, but on the other hand he wasn't irredeemably, Rhys Williams-ly crap last season, he just wasn't good enough in the Championship. He's got enough about him to do some damage in this league though if his head's right. L1 is one of those leagues that benefits the athletes, allows players with limited technical ability to get by with raw pace or power. Ba has both of those in decent quantities and I feel like given a run of games he'll realise he can boss players physically and start playing his game. It's a bit hopeful but it does make sense.
To think that some people on here slagged off Cousins yet can stick up for Jackson is hilarious. Maybe with someone like Thompson next to him he could do a job but I still don't think he's simply good enough to control the midfield going forward on his own.
Name me one player in football history who was able to control a midfield on his own? Even the greats like Scholes, Iniesta and Karim Bagheri needed support!
At this level you can afford to have a Stephens and a Pritchard for example Pritchards only role to be to run around and disturb the oppositions play, and Stephens to carry and pass it forward. We have neither of them roles now. Crofts, Foley and Jackson are basically equally slow versions of eachother and we're trying to cram them into the same midfield.
Don't remember Stephens passing the ball forwards. Stylish , slow, sideways shoveler ; amazing what 7 million gets you these days
Comments
still a class act both on and off the pitch
He was central to both team and club, and embodied what was best about them. And he was a very intelligent footballer. I think all the same can be said about Jacko. So where is the difference in the two cases? I just can't work it out.....
He certainly can't do it on his own.
Get runners around Jackson and his quality is still there. He's never been quick.
Maybe someone like Regan Charles-Cook beside him would be beneficial but he's a bit too raw
However, re the playing side of things. We can afford him taking up a place in midfield - it's quite simple, remove Crofts or Foley - who offer about as much pace as a mobility scooter with 4 punctures.
Whilst I agree that JJ is some times painful to watch in terms of getting about the pitch, he offers a goal scoring threat. He and Solly are just about the only thing left of what's good about the club.
No player is bigger than the team as a whole. At present we have nothing else, so it appears he will be starting and this is a moot point.
But I dont want to compromise any position. I dont want to say - well we can carry him if he has someone energetic next to him. I want two energetic people in the middle of the park, as that is what will have us competing in this league. Whether we get that is another matter.
Do I want him around the club in general? 100% - and frankly, the way its looking, I would look at him as Head Coach sooner rather than later.
I rather expected someone to say that the pace is slower in Continental footballer, and indeed it is. Tomas Repka returned to Sparta from his mass card collecting spell at the Hammers, and I actually saw for the first time his class as he played in a sweeper role. But he didn't continue as long as Horvath. I guess my point was that the whole club decided that it was worth making up for his waning physical power, and built the team accordingly. Seems to me poor Jackson is in footballing terms just one of RD's "midfielders" on the spreadsheet.
Let's start with the cons, because they're there:
- His non-existent pace has now gone, which is a worry
- He's late into challenges and likes a foul
- Can't remember the last time I saw him take a dead ball (not necessarily a con, but genuinely can't remember)
Pros:
- We all love him
- His mentality is second to essentially none
- Knows what he wants to do with the ball or in space or where the play "should" be
- Captain captain captain
- Seems to get timely goals
But, for all of this - his lack of mobility, and the way he plays the game, means he needs some shielding. We don't have a squad that could accommodate Jacko, who is rapidly becoming a luxury player. We don't have a system from the squad we have that accommodates him.
Possibly as a holding midfielder, a la Pirlo (bear with me), but then we'd need two CMs in front (Kashi and Diarra when fit) to cover his weaknesses. Which are purely physical - his footballing mind is obvious. But that's no use if you can't execute what you envisage.
If we had a team like:
Rudd
Solly -- Pearce -- Bauer -- Fox
----------- Jacko ----------
------- Kashi -- Diarra ------
Holmes ------------ Lookman
---------- Ajose -----------
Then that'd be interesting. Konsa's pace can cover Jacko, as can Kashi's workrate; Diarra is class and fairly mobile... Yeah. That allows Jacko as a luxury.
However, that central midfield is months away from a return, and until such time as it does return, we need to sign someone. Crofts and Foley aren't strong enough - phyiscally, technically, or mentally. And Jacko - lacking most in the physical department - accordingly struggles because of the nature of L1.
All this trying to retrofit players around the team to keep him in is ridiculous.
I get what he means to fans and the man love etc - but first and foremost we are in serious danger in my eyes of dropping down to league 2 if we dont get a midfield to compete (and thats no compromises across the 4 or 5 players).
Solly -- Pearce -- Bauer -- Fox
----------- Jacko ----------
------- Kashi -- Diarra ------
Holmes ------------ Lookman
---------- Ajose -----------
And we'd hoof it long to Ajose, lose it and be defending constantly.