as interesting as this is, not, it has really taken over a thread that in my opinion it should not be being discussed on but more importantly it’s obvious that you need to see a Solicitor but are not doing so because either a) you think those on Charlton Life more knowledgeable or b) you expect free advice.
You have a photo of page 2 already. Starts with point 6 and is all about the house. The cash Balances I previously stated is correct; £236k in joint names with her, £82k joint with me and £38k in his sole name. The thing is, she knows the money she has is technically hers but, in practice, the house would have to be sold to pay the £260k IHT if she refuses to use her cash to pay the IHT. She would be making herself homeless albeit with £266k of cash and an entitlement to 50% of the net sale house proceeds and dads sole assets of approx £58k after IHT is paid. That would give her approx £60k more. She’d end up with a total of £294k and me £82k + £60k, total £142k.
As you say, she definitely gets significantly more than me in that scenario!
Yes and no due to previous gifts.
i thought you said it was all to be split 50/50 and calculated it all on that basis, that absolutely isn't what your fathers will says at all from what you have shown, far from it, and neither would she be due to pay all the IHT from her joint account with your father (anymore than you are from yours). However I do think your father may believe he is splitting it 50/50 when you include past gifts, and there is also a potential issue with what he is saying he is leaving free of IHT (just because he writes it doesn't mean he can or anyone can say i'm leaving £2m free of IHT..........).
Does your fathers will mention anywhere 50/50 between you?
Just parking the house for 1 minute, as I see it from what we have now seen (and before IHT)
1. £82k Goes to you 2. £236k Goes to his partner 3. £38k split between you (assuming his will does say to split the remaining proceeds 50/50) 4. £25k pays the 3x £5k and hopefully all other funeral/estate expenses 5. £30k partner has 5. £350k (park for a moment) 6. £215k you have
It could be said that;
1. You have had £215k + will get £82K + £19K = £316k 2. Partner has had £30k + will get £236k + £19k = £285k
So it's like brexit, 52/48% split. I do wonder if that is why your father has just gifted her that £30k to make it as near as damn it 50/50.
Importantly she will not be due to pay all the IHT i'm afraid, not sure why you would think that? She may offer to, but she absolutely will not have to fund all the IHT bill.
As in my first paragraph i'm not sure it would be legally binding that your dad says the house is free of IHT, with only about £80k (or 55k after the 15k gifts to friends) of the allowance left there is a substantial amount due on it's value of around £120k (taking off the £55k).
If I were in her shoes i'd be rightly saying you owed half of the £120k (if the house is 50/50) as well as 40% of your 82k, i.e. around 93k, and she'd win that one very easily I think.
Urgent call to the solicitors/accountants tomorrow I think.
You have a photo of page 2 already. Starts with point 6 and is all about the house. The cash Balances I previously stated is correct; £236k in joint names with her, £82k joint with me and £38k in his sole name. The thing is, she knows the money she has is technically hers but, in practice, the house would have to be sold to pay the £260k IHT if she refuses to use her cash to pay the IHT. She would be making herself homeless albeit with £266k of cash and an entitlement to 50% of the net sale house proceeds and dads sole assets of approx £58k after IHT is paid. That would give her approx £60k more. She’d end up with a total of £294k and me £82k + £60k, total £142k.
As you say, she definitely gets significantly more than me in that scenario!
Yes and no due to previous gifts.
i thought you said it was all to be split 50/50 and calculated it all on that basis, that absolutely isn't what your fathers will says at all from what you have shown, far from it, and neither would she be due to pay all the IHT from her joint account with your father (anymore than you are from yours). However I do think your father may believe he is splitting it 50/50 when you include past gifts, and there is also a potential issue with what he is saying he is leaving free of IHT (just because he writes it doesn't mean he can or anyone can say i'm leaving £2m free of IHT..........).
Does your fathers will mention anywhere 50/50 between you?
Just parking the house for 1 minute, as I see it from what we have now seen (and before IHT)
1. £82k Goes to you 2. £236k Goes to his partner 3. £38k split between you (assuming his will does say to split the remaining proceeds 50/50) 4. £25k pays the 3x £5k and hopefully all other funeral/estate expenses 5. £30k partner has 5. £350k (park for a moment) 6. £215k you have
It could be said that;
1. You have had £215k + will get £82K + £19K = £316k 2. Partner has had £30k + will get £236k + £19k = £285k
So it's like brexit, 52/48% split. I do wonder if that is why your father has just gifted her that £30k to make it as near as damn it 50/50.
Importantly she will not be due to pay all the IHT i'm afraid, not sure why you would think that? She may offer to, but she absolutely will not have to fund all the IHT bill.
As in my first paragraph i'm not sure it would be legally binding that your dad says the house is free of IHT, with only about £80k (or 55k after the 15k gifts to friends) of the allowance left there is a substantial amount due on it's value of around £120k (taking off the £55k).
If I were in her shoes i'd be rightly saying you owed half of the £120k (if the house is 50/50) as well as 40% of your 82k, i.e. around 93k, and she'd win that one very easily I think.
Urgent call to the solicitors/accountants tomorrow I think.
PS, I note this will is draft.......
Do you read it that the house is 50/50? It is if sold but 100% mine if not sold and she dies as it then is 100% mine.
as interesting as this is, not, it has really taken over a thread that in my opinion it should not be being discussed on but more importantly it’s obvious that you need to see a Solicitor but are not doing so because either a) you think those on Charlton Life more knowledgeable or b) you expect free advice.
Sorry, I’ll check with you before posting anything in future. I can’t find the ‘rules’ on what should or shouldn’t be discussed on this thread. How about you skip over these posts if they are an annoyance to you and, aside from that, keep your insensitive opinions to yourself. Glad you find it interesting though. Keep searching for something less interesting, eh!?
We have just set up a junior stocks and shares ISA for our 3 month old. Any suggestions over what to invest in? Favouring the fund route but struggling to pick one.
We have just set up a junior stocks and shares ISA for our 3 month old. Any suggestions over what to invest in? Favouring the fund route but struggling to pick one.
second this, just set up a ‘fineco’ trading account and need some tips
We have just set up a junior stocks and shares ISA for our 3 month old. Any suggestions over what to invest in? Favouring the fund route but struggling to pick one.
We have just set up a junior stocks and shares ISA for our 3 month old. Any suggestions over what to invest in? Favouring the fund route but struggling to pick one.
Careful asking for ‘free advice’ - Largeaddick doesn’t like people doing that on a Savings and Investments thread!😭
as interesting as this is, not, it has really taken over a thread that in my opinion it should not be being discussed on but more importantly it’s obvious that you need to see a Solicitor but are not doing so because either a) you think those on Charlton Life more knowledgeable or b) you expect free advice.
Sorry, I’ll check with you before posting anything in future. I can’t find the ‘rules’ on what should or shouldn’t be discussed on this thread. How about you skip over these posts if they are an annoyance to you and, aside from that, keep your insensitive opinions to yourself. Glad you find it interesting though. Keep searching for something less interesting, eh!?
Can’t see where my opinions were insensitive. And my opinion is see a Solicitor.
We have just set up a junior stocks and shares ISA for our 3 month old. Any suggestions over what to invest in? Favouring the fund route but struggling to pick one.
With Hargreaves Lansdown. Saw all the different options (geographies / sectors / bonds / shares / mix etc) but my wife was put off by the risk factor on the majority of them, to be fair the risk was fairly high on their little scorecard for areas you would think of as being safer.
With Hargreaves Lansdown. Saw all the different options (geographies / sectors / bonds / shares / mix etc) but my wife was put off by the risk factor on the majority of them, to be fair the risk was fairly high on their little scorecard for areas you would think of as being safer.
Personally if you are going to be paying in monthly or on a regular basis (which would be the best thing) I really wouldn't worry and you have 18 years! You can always adjust as you go and start going safer in the last few years..
Just remember if you buy a fund today at £2 a unit, but in 3 months time they have halved, your next purchase you're getting double the number of units! Thats why I prefer where possible to do regular monthly investments equally through the year.
We have just set up a junior stocks and shares ISA for our 3 month old. Any suggestions over what to invest in? Favouring the fund route but struggling to pick one.
Best bet is to seek the advice of a financial advisor. They will assess your attitude to risk, time horizon & capacity for loss. It might cost a small fee to set it up but then you have accountability if it all goes wrong.
Aside from that - you have 2 options. Pick a managed fund that invests in a mixture of equities & bonds or select a range of individual funds that cover all the bases.
We have just set up a junior stocks and shares ISA for our 3 month old. Any suggestions over what to invest in? Favouring the fund route but struggling to pick one.
We have just set up a junior stocks and shares ISA for our 3 month old. Any suggestions over what to invest in? Favouring the fund route but struggling to pick one.
Careful asking for ‘free advice’ - Largeaddick doesn’t like people doing that on a Savings and Investments thread!😭
Might be because its a "savings & investments" thread and not a "legal & tax" one.
as interesting as this is, not, it has really taken over a thread that in my opinion it should not be being discussed on but more importantly it’s obvious that you need to see a Solicitor but are not doing so because either a) you think those on Charlton Life more knowledgeable or b) you expect free advice.
Sorry, I’ll check with you before posting anything in future. I can’t find the ‘rules’ on what should or shouldn’t be discussed on this thread. How about you skip over these posts if they are an annoyance to you and, aside from that, keep your insensitive opinions to yourself. Glad you find it interesting though. Keep searching for something less interesting, eh!?
Can’t see where my opinions were insensitive. And my opinion is see a Solicitor.
We have just set up a junior stocks and shares ISA for our 3 month old. Any suggestions over what to invest in? Favouring the fund route but struggling to pick one.
We have just set up a junior stocks and shares ISA for our 3 month old. Any suggestions over what to invest in? Favouring the fund route but struggling to pick one.
Careful asking for ‘free advice’ - Largeaddick doesn’t like people doing that on a Savings and Investments thread!😭
Might be because its a "savings & investments" thread and not a "legal & tax" one.
His saying his investing in Psychedelic meds and artificial intelligence didn’t really know he was into investing but he thinks his going to make loads of money from this.
This is very good - Henry Mance in the FT always is. Hope everyone has heard the story he starts with. It's bona fide, the guy did an interview on the BBC last week...
Let me explain my reaction to the news that a San Francisco-based programmer has around $220m in bitcoin, but cannot remember the password. According to the New York Times, Stefan Thomas has only two more guesses to access the keys to a digital wallet that contains his fortune. Otherwise he loses the lot. I think there was a brief moment when I found it hilarious. Then I found it too painful to think about. Now I have reached a state of acceptance. This is the kind of Sliding Doors moment that we all fear — what if we never met our partner, what if we took that plane, what (in my case) if I had slipped jumping from a ledge into a rock pool. Life could have been so different. Accidents do happen, especially to bitcoin investors. An estimated 20 per cent of the digital currency is stranded — owned, for example, by people who can’t remember how to access it. I thought these guys were against the right to be forgotten?
A Financial Times colleague wisely wrote down the passphrase to his bitcoin, now worth a few thousand pounds. Sadly he wrote it down wrong. As long as he doesn’t write things down wrong in the FT, he’ll be fine. But other forgetful bitcoiners will bang their heads against their Tesla prospectuses, because the dollar value of their currency has more than tripled in the past year. A Welsh IT worker claims he binned a laptop with £230m of bitcoin, and has spent eight years asking the council for permission to search its landfill. There are serious implications for bitcoin, which wants to be a store of value, but is clearly overemphasising the storing part. Remember that it is the most environmentally damaging currency imaginable, with a carbon footprint bigger than Sri Lanka, because of the computing power required to create each token. If Silicon Valley wanted to pollute the world while creating nothing of usable value, it should have copied Northern Ireland’s cash-for-ash scheme. There are broader lessons for digital evangelists. Internet libertarians envisage that people will flourish when the regulatory guardrails are thrown off and inefficient humans are replaced by automated systems. But what if humans are quite useful? Walk in beaten and empty-handed to a bank branch, and the tellers will find a way to reconnect you with your overdraft. Whereas, even if you could identify bitcoin’s mysterious founder Satoshi Nakamoto, he couldn’t help you access your digital wallet. For a species that forgets things, that is suboptimal.
The other lesson is about genius. Silicon Valley loves a genius, often identified by how early they invested in X or what employee number they were in Y. But maybe the people who invested early in Facebook weren’t geniuses — they were just lucky. Maybe the people who become viral stars are not the funniest or the best singers. Password-amnesiac Mr Thomas was given his 7,002 bitcoin for making a video — a task millions of people could have done. He could be worth as much as Ed Sheeran or become the internet’s version of the Fifth Beatle. But it wouldn’t say much about his ability or contribution to society. “If you can make one heap of all your winnings / And risk it on one turn of pitch-and-toss / And lose, and start again at your beginnings / And never breathe a word about your loss . . . ,” wrote Rudyard Kipling. No one can really follow that advice. No one can treat triumph and disaster the same, even though luck often decides which we end up with. All we can do is have compassion for those people who never made their fortune, who never fell in love, who fell ill. Four years of Donald Trump has surely taught America that wealth does not correlate with moral status. If bitcoin teaches Silicon Valley the importance of luck, then maybe it will have created real value after all.
Very interesting, thanks for posting that.
Whilst not wanting this thread to turn into a crypto thread, that was incredibly interesting to read.
Having the carbon footprint of Sri Lanka is unbelievable, and disgraceful... A mate who is now obsessed by crypto, and who I would very kindly describe as being void of braincells, sent me a video of someone who had put all of the processors inside a radiator frame, so the bitcoin miner was basically being used as a radiator for their home!
In his case, he got into crypto because he bought too much bitcoin when buying an ounce of cannabis, and saw the value rocket.
Almost everyone I have seen get into crypto has absolutely no finance intelligence or background, which is probably why they have invented their own language (like a cult, your point which I completely agree with).
It is a market where people basically follow the crowd. Once it starts falling, it is going to massively tumble, and then when it rises, as we have seen, it will rocket.
Any "currency" that goes up or down at the rate it does, will never be able to be a practical currency in reality. Everyone who "holds" bitcoin becomes a huge speculator, and that is not appealing.
I get worried enough where I work about our FX exposure risk which could swing our profitability by 3-4%. Crypto could swing it by hundreds of percent.
Drugs, guns, and speculation, not a credible currency.
"I can't go into a shop and buy things with a bag of gold - therefore it is worthless"
I'd be interested to hear what the banking sector's carbon footprint is, especially when it comes to moving and storing stores of value such as gold.
My problem (read lack of knowledge/understanding) is I just cannot fathom why it goes up and why it goes down. If I could understand that I might dive back in with more than a few hundred. Other 'currencies' I don't profess to be an expert but whether FX, Gold, Shares etc I can generally understand.
My problem (read lack of knowledge/understanding) is I just cannot fathom why it goes up and why it goes down. If I could understand that I might dive back in with more than a few hundred. Other 'currencies' I don't profess to be an expert but whether FX, Gold, Shares etc I can generally understand.
supply and demand. More buyers than sellers. Price is made to go up as every 3 years or so there's a "halving" where the rewards for mining it get cut in half so it becomes more valuable - bull runs like the one we're in tend to be kicked off by this happening. There will also only ever be 23 million (i think?) complete bitcoin ever in existence. It's designed to go up in value and get more scarce.
One of several slightly fuzzy things about crypto is that -according to the disciples - only bitcoin is touted as a crypto *currency*. Ethereum is touted as a possible alternative currency when they are feeling bullish. I had to buy ethereum in order to buy Vechain tokens. But the rest, such as Vechain, and Zil (sorry, I just think of the Soviet limo every time) these are "tokens" by which you buy into...and that's where it gets even fuzzier. Apparently a Vechain token gives me some ill-defined stake in a Thing, apparently some kind of programme by which a company can use the blockchain to monitor on a grand scale, e.g every single piece of stuff that went into all its cars in all its factories - something which if true, I could see to have enormous commercial value, and cut out industrial-scale theft. It's just that I have never seen anything more than vague allusions to mega companies using it, and these allusions confined to pro-crypto media. Which is kinda, weird. That's why it makes me think of the ADBD website, the "investment fund" which claimed all kinds of blue chip companies as "Clients/partners" yet not a snippet of info about what it actually did with or for these companies. And as we all now, that's because the whole thing was a fairy-tale. I really hope that I am proven very wrong to compare ADBD to Vechain, Zil, Nipple, Berk and all the rest...
By the way, I tried, I really did. Way back in 2018 my nephew bought me a book "Cryptoassets" - Burniske&Tatar, which I read in full. It started off quite promisingly, but as it went on, it just went on and and on about how to trade the things. Nothing of any substance about what the things actually represent. Which is exactly how the thread reads to me. Oh well, people do what they wish with their own money...
This is very good - Henry Mance in the FT always is. Hope everyone has heard the story he starts with. It's bona fide, the guy did an interview on the BBC last week...
Let me explain my reaction to the news that a San Francisco-based programmer has around $220m in bitcoin, but cannot remember the password. According to the New York Times, Stefan Thomas has only two more guesses to access the keys to a digital wallet that contains his fortune. Otherwise he loses the lot. I think there was a brief moment when I found it hilarious. Then I found it too painful to think about. Now I have reached a state of acceptance. This is the kind of Sliding Doors moment that we all fear — what if we never met our partner, what if we took that plane, what (in my case) if I had slipped jumping from a ledge into a rock pool. Life could have been so different. Accidents do happen, especially to bitcoin investors. An estimated 20 per cent of the digital currency is stranded — owned, for example, by people who can’t remember how to access it. I thought these guys were against the right to be forgotten?
A Financial Times colleague wisely wrote down the passphrase to his bitcoin, now worth a few thousand pounds. Sadly he wrote it down wrong. As long as he doesn’t write things down wrong in the FT, he’ll be fine. But other forgetful bitcoiners will bang their heads against their Tesla prospectuses, because the dollar value of their currency has more than tripled in the past year. A Welsh IT worker claims he binned a laptop with £230m of bitcoin, and has spent eight years asking the council for permission to search its landfill. There are serious implications for bitcoin, which wants to be a store of value, but is clearly overemphasising the storing part. Remember that it is the most environmentally damaging currency imaginable, with a carbon footprint bigger than Sri Lanka, because of the computing power required to create each token. If Silicon Valley wanted to pollute the world while creating nothing of usable value, it should have copied Northern Ireland’s cash-for-ash scheme. There are broader lessons for digital evangelists. Internet libertarians envisage that people will flourish when the regulatory guardrails are thrown off and inefficient humans are replaced by automated systems. But what if humans are quite useful? Walk in beaten and empty-handed to a bank branch, and the tellers will find a way to reconnect you with your overdraft. Whereas, even if you could identify bitcoin’s mysterious founder Satoshi Nakamoto, he couldn’t help you access your digital wallet. For a species that forgets things, that is suboptimal.
The other lesson is about genius. Silicon Valley loves a genius, often identified by how early they invested in X or what employee number they were in Y. But maybe the people who invested early in Facebook weren’t geniuses — they were just lucky. Maybe the people who become viral stars are not the funniest or the best singers. Password-amnesiac Mr Thomas was given his 7,002 bitcoin for making a video — a task millions of people could have done. He could be worth as much as Ed Sheeran or become the internet’s version of the Fifth Beatle. But it wouldn’t say much about his ability or contribution to society. “If you can make one heap of all your winnings / And risk it on one turn of pitch-and-toss / And lose, and start again at your beginnings / And never breathe a word about your loss . . . ,” wrote Rudyard Kipling. No one can really follow that advice. No one can treat triumph and disaster the same, even though luck often decides which we end up with. All we can do is have compassion for those people who never made their fortune, who never fell in love, who fell ill. Four years of Donald Trump has surely taught America that wealth does not correlate with moral status. If bitcoin teaches Silicon Valley the importance of luck, then maybe it will have created real value after all.
Very interesting, thanks for posting that.
Whilst not wanting this thread to turn into a crypto thread, that was incredibly interesting to read.
Having the carbon footprint of Sri Lanka is unbelievable, and disgraceful... A mate who is now obsessed by crypto, and who I would very kindly describe as being void of braincells, sent me a video of someone who had put all of the processors inside a radiator frame, so the bitcoin miner was basically being used as a radiator for their home!
In his case, he got into crypto because he bought too much bitcoin when buying an ounce of cannabis, and saw the value rocket.
Almost everyone I have seen get into crypto has absolutely no finance intelligence or background, which is probably why they have invented their own language (like a cult, your point which I completely agree with).
It is a market where people basically follow the crowd. Once it starts falling, it is going to massively tumble, and then when it rises, as we have seen, it will rocket.
Any "currency" that goes up or down at the rate it does, will never be able to be a practical currency in reality. Everyone who "holds" bitcoin becomes a huge speculator, and that is not appealing.
I get worried enough where I work about our FX exposure risk which could swing our profitability by 3-4%. Crypto could swing it by hundreds of percent.
Drugs, guns, and speculation, not a credible currency.
"I can't go into a shop and buy things with a bag of gold - therefore it is worthless"
I'd be interested to hear what the banking sector's carbon footprint is, especially when it comes to moving and storing stores of value such as gold.
.... That's er.... Not what was being said.
I'm not trying to be rude but I really think you should spend less time worrying about old boring people like us think. I think most of us just "won't get it"...
There's a thread for cryptos by the way, you should check it out
This is very good - Henry Mance in the FT always is. Hope everyone has heard the story he starts with. It's bona fide, the guy did an interview on the BBC last week...
Let me explain my reaction to the news that a San Francisco-based programmer has around $220m in bitcoin, but cannot remember the password. According to the New York Times, Stefan Thomas has only two more guesses to access the keys to a digital wallet that contains his fortune. Otherwise he loses the lot. I think there was a brief moment when I found it hilarious. Then I found it too painful to think about. Now I have reached a state of acceptance. This is the kind of Sliding Doors moment that we all fear — what if we never met our partner, what if we took that plane, what (in my case) if I had slipped jumping from a ledge into a rock pool. Life could have been so different. Accidents do happen, especially to bitcoin investors. An estimated 20 per cent of the digital currency is stranded — owned, for example, by people who can’t remember how to access it. I thought these guys were against the right to be forgotten?
A Financial Times colleague wisely wrote down the passphrase to his bitcoin, now worth a few thousand pounds. Sadly he wrote it down wrong. As long as he doesn’t write things down wrong in the FT, he’ll be fine. But other forgetful bitcoiners will bang their heads against their Tesla prospectuses, because the dollar value of their currency has more than tripled in the past year. A Welsh IT worker claims he binned a laptop with £230m of bitcoin, and has spent eight years asking the council for permission to search its landfill. There are serious implications for bitcoin, which wants to be a store of value, but is clearly overemphasising the storing part. Remember that it is the most environmentally damaging currency imaginable, with a carbon footprint bigger than Sri Lanka, because of the computing power required to create each token. If Silicon Valley wanted to pollute the world while creating nothing of usable value, it should have copied Northern Ireland’s cash-for-ash scheme. There are broader lessons for digital evangelists. Internet libertarians envisage that people will flourish when the regulatory guardrails are thrown off and inefficient humans are replaced by automated systems. But what if humans are quite useful? Walk in beaten and empty-handed to a bank branch, and the tellers will find a way to reconnect you with your overdraft. Whereas, even if you could identify bitcoin’s mysterious founder Satoshi Nakamoto, he couldn’t help you access your digital wallet. For a species that forgets things, that is suboptimal.
The other lesson is about genius. Silicon Valley loves a genius, often identified by how early they invested in X or what employee number they were in Y. But maybe the people who invested early in Facebook weren’t geniuses — they were just lucky. Maybe the people who become viral stars are not the funniest or the best singers. Password-amnesiac Mr Thomas was given his 7,002 bitcoin for making a video — a task millions of people could have done. He could be worth as much as Ed Sheeran or become the internet’s version of the Fifth Beatle. But it wouldn’t say much about his ability or contribution to society. “If you can make one heap of all your winnings / And risk it on one turn of pitch-and-toss / And lose, and start again at your beginnings / And never breathe a word about your loss . . . ,” wrote Rudyard Kipling. No one can really follow that advice. No one can treat triumph and disaster the same, even though luck often decides which we end up with. All we can do is have compassion for those people who never made their fortune, who never fell in love, who fell ill. Four years of Donald Trump has surely taught America that wealth does not correlate with moral status. If bitcoin teaches Silicon Valley the importance of luck, then maybe it will have created real value after all.
Very interesting, thanks for posting that.
Whilst not wanting this thread to turn into a crypto thread, that was incredibly interesting to read.
Having the carbon footprint of Sri Lanka is unbelievable, and disgraceful... A mate who is now obsessed by crypto, and who I would very kindly describe as being void of braincells, sent me a video of someone who had put all of the processors inside a radiator frame, so the bitcoin miner was basically being used as a radiator for their home!
In his case, he got into crypto because he bought too much bitcoin when buying an ounce of cannabis, and saw the value rocket.
Almost everyone I have seen get into crypto has absolutely no finance intelligence or background, which is probably why they have invented their own language (like a cult, your point which I completely agree with).
It is a market where people basically follow the crowd. Once it starts falling, it is going to massively tumble, and then when it rises, as we have seen, it will rocket.
Any "currency" that goes up or down at the rate it does, will never be able to be a practical currency in reality. Everyone who "holds" bitcoin becomes a huge speculator, and that is not appealing.
I get worried enough where I work about our FX exposure risk which could swing our profitability by 3-4%. Crypto could swing it by hundreds of percent.
Drugs, guns, and speculation, not a credible currency.
"I can't go into a shop and buy things with a bag of gold - therefore it is worthless"
I'd be interested to hear what the banking sector's carbon footprint is, especially when it comes to moving and storing stores of value such as gold.
.... That's er.... Not what was being said.
I'm not trying to be rude but I really think you should spend less time worrying about old boring people like us think. I think most of us just "won't get it"...
There's a thread for cryptos by the way, you should check it out
Nice swerve of my question re the carbon footprint of banks and of moving and storing stores of value such as gold. How much money and carbon gets wasted on that? Are you gonna tell me not to buy tesla stocks because it creates cars and cars = bad for the planet?
I literally got tagged in this thread about this subject and now I'm asked why i'm talking about it in this thread?
One of several slightly fuzzy things about crypto is that -according to the disciples - only bitcoin is touted as a crypto *currency*. Ethereum is touted as a possible alternative currency when they are feeling bullish. I had to buy ethereum in order to buy Vechain tokens. But the rest, such as Vechain, and Zil (sorry, I just think of the Soviet limo every time) these are "tokens" by which you buy into...and that's where it gets even fuzzier. Apparently a Vechain token gives me some ill-defined stake in a Thing, apparently some kind of programme by which a company can use the blockchain to monitor on a grand scale, e.g every single piece of stuff that went into all its cars in all its factories - something which if true, I could see to have enormous commercial value, and cut out industrial-scale theft. It's just that I have never seen anything more than vague allusions to mega companies using it, and these allusions confined to pro-crypto media. Which is kinda, weird. That's why it makes me think of the ADBD website, the "investment fund" which claimed all kinds of blue chip companies as "Clients/partners" yet not a snippet of info about what it actually did with or for these companies. And as we all now, that's because the whole thing was a fairy-tale. I really hope that I am proven very wrong to compare ADBD to Vechain, Zil, Nipple, Berk and all the rest...
By the way, I tried, I really did. Way back in 2018 my nephew bought me a book "Cryptoassets" - Burniske&Tatar, which I read in full. It started off quite promisingly, but as it went on, it just went on and and on about how to trade the things. Nothing of any substance about what the things actually represent. Which is exactly how the thread reads to me. Oh well, people do what they wish with their own money...
This is very good - Henry Mance in the FT always is. Hope everyone has heard the story he starts with. It's bona fide, the guy did an interview on the BBC last week...
Let me explain my reaction to the news that a San Francisco-based programmer has around $220m in bitcoin, but cannot remember the password. According to the New York Times, Stefan Thomas has only two more guesses to access the keys to a digital wallet that contains his fortune. Otherwise he loses the lot. I think there was a brief moment when I found it hilarious. Then I found it too painful to think about. Now I have reached a state of acceptance. This is the kind of Sliding Doors moment that we all fear — what if we never met our partner, what if we took that plane, what (in my case) if I had slipped jumping from a ledge into a rock pool. Life could have been so different. Accidents do happen, especially to bitcoin investors. An estimated 20 per cent of the digital currency is stranded — owned, for example, by people who can’t remember how to access it. I thought these guys were against the right to be forgotten?
A Financial Times colleague wisely wrote down the passphrase to his bitcoin, now worth a few thousand pounds. Sadly he wrote it down wrong. As long as he doesn’t write things down wrong in the FT, he’ll be fine. But other forgetful bitcoiners will bang their heads against their Tesla prospectuses, because the dollar value of their currency has more than tripled in the past year. A Welsh IT worker claims he binned a laptop with £230m of bitcoin, and has spent eight years asking the council for permission to search its landfill. There are serious implications for bitcoin, which wants to be a store of value, but is clearly overemphasising the storing part. Remember that it is the most environmentally damaging currency imaginable, with a carbon footprint bigger than Sri Lanka, because of the computing power required to create each token. If Silicon Valley wanted to pollute the world while creating nothing of usable value, it should have copied Northern Ireland’s cash-for-ash scheme. There are broader lessons for digital evangelists. Internet libertarians envisage that people will flourish when the regulatory guardrails are thrown off and inefficient humans are replaced by automated systems. But what if humans are quite useful? Walk in beaten and empty-handed to a bank branch, and the tellers will find a way to reconnect you with your overdraft. Whereas, even if you could identify bitcoin’s mysterious founder Satoshi Nakamoto, he couldn’t help you access your digital wallet. For a species that forgets things, that is suboptimal.
The other lesson is about genius. Silicon Valley loves a genius, often identified by how early they invested in X or what employee number they were in Y. But maybe the people who invested early in Facebook weren’t geniuses — they were just lucky. Maybe the people who become viral stars are not the funniest or the best singers. Password-amnesiac Mr Thomas was given his 7,002 bitcoin for making a video — a task millions of people could have done. He could be worth as much as Ed Sheeran or become the internet’s version of the Fifth Beatle. But it wouldn’t say much about his ability or contribution to society. “If you can make one heap of all your winnings / And risk it on one turn of pitch-and-toss / And lose, and start again at your beginnings / And never breathe a word about your loss . . . ,” wrote Rudyard Kipling. No one can really follow that advice. No one can treat triumph and disaster the same, even though luck often decides which we end up with. All we can do is have compassion for those people who never made their fortune, who never fell in love, who fell ill. Four years of Donald Trump has surely taught America that wealth does not correlate with moral status. If bitcoin teaches Silicon Valley the importance of luck, then maybe it will have created real value after all.
Very interesting, thanks for posting that.
Whilst not wanting this thread to turn into a crypto thread, that was incredibly interesting to read.
Having the carbon footprint of Sri Lanka is unbelievable, and disgraceful... A mate who is now obsessed by crypto, and who I would very kindly describe as being void of braincells, sent me a video of someone who had put all of the processors inside a radiator frame, so the bitcoin miner was basically being used as a radiator for their home!
In his case, he got into crypto because he bought too much bitcoin when buying an ounce of cannabis, and saw the value rocket.
Almost everyone I have seen get into crypto has absolutely no finance intelligence or background, which is probably why they have invented their own language (like a cult, your point which I completely agree with).
It is a market where people basically follow the crowd. Once it starts falling, it is going to massively tumble, and then when it rises, as we have seen, it will rocket.
Any "currency" that goes up or down at the rate it does, will never be able to be a practical currency in reality. Everyone who "holds" bitcoin becomes a huge speculator, and that is not appealing.
I get worried enough where I work about our FX exposure risk which could swing our profitability by 3-4%. Crypto could swing it by hundreds of percent.
Drugs, guns, and speculation, not a credible currency.
"I can't go into a shop and buy things with a bag of gold - therefore it is worthless"
I'd be interested to hear what the banking sector's carbon footprint is, especially when it comes to moving and storing stores of value such as gold.
.... That's er.... Not what was being said.
I'm not trying to be rude but I really think you should spend less time worrying about old boring people like us think. I think most of us just "won't get it"...
There's a thread for cryptos by the way, you should check it out
Nice swerve of my question re the carbon footprint of banks and of moving and storing stores of value such as gold. How much money and carbon gets wasted on that? Are you gonna tell me not to buy tesla stocks because it creates cars and cars = bad for the planet?
I literally got tagged in this thread about this subject and now I'm asked why i'm talking about it in this thread?
I don't really respond to whatabboutery to be honest, find it a bit... Swerving the point.
I was only saying why I don't believe it can be a currency, it is nothing to do with the fact that I can't hold it, I know that means nothing for the relevancy of a currency, I never really have coins and notes in my hand. My point was about fluctuations in the currency, which are astronomical. If it was a currency being used in a real nation, people would use the dollar instead on the black market.
But you swerved that.
Anyway, you are actually one of my more preferred posters on this forum, believe it or not, so I would rather not get into an argument with you...
Crypto chat should go onto the crypto thread imo. Any chat about politics gets shut down & told to go on the House of Commoners ones so no reason why this can't do so too.
Crypto chat should go onto the crypto thread imo. Any chat about politics gets shut down & told to go on the House of Commoners ones so no reason why this can't do so too.
I don't agree. Crypto is being touted as an investment. @kentaddick is the only one of the crypto people ready to come on here and at least make a stab at defending it as an investment. I rather wish some of the others on that thread who are also on here sometimes, would give him a hand.
I agree with Golfie, crypto is also an investment of sort, but quite a different one with its own lexicon and everything, and as it has its own thread I feel any questions should be directed over there. If it didn't have it's own thread I could understand it being discussed here, but it does.
I agree with Golfie, crypto is also an investment of sort, but quite a different one with its own lexicon and everything, and as it has its own thread I feel any questions should be directed over there. If it didn't have it's own thread I could understand it being discussed here, but it does.
Well, I tried to ask the same questions on that thread as people would here about various other investment types, but they blanked me, and I concluded it's a cult, not a serious investment thread. Crypto lures in a lot of younger people who invest relatively far more of their total savings than is wise, IMO, and I thought this thread was about helping people make wise decisions. I don't think it should be ignored - if it all goes pop, it will blow back on the rest of us, just like in 2008 when institutions we broadly trust persuaded the world that sub-prime mortgages were OK, and so were the devices they used to mix up sub -prime with sensible mortgages all round the world. Who on here knew what a Credit Default Swap was, before the whole thing crashed on us?
But whatever, if no one else wants to talk about it, there's no point in me flogging a dead horse.
Metals, metals, metals, the brave new world is going to need Zinc, Copper, Lithium, Graphite, Cobalt etc...... although the WS oil price has been going up demand in 2021 still looks below forecasts (FT Today) so be wary of O&G outfits, raw materials are in great demand, don’t want to upset Golfie but IMHO ARB still has a big upside, as a share not as a Crypto 😜
I know what my 2021-22 ISA is going to look like already, but as ever nothing’s guaranteed, need the FTSE & AIM to keep moving upwards.
What have you bought that have outperformed bitcoin if you bought it January 2010 vs buying bitcoin in January 2010?
Answer: There isn't anything.
As an IFA, regulated by the FCA, I would love to discuss this with my clients, and as part of the advice process I need to supply them with a prospectus, a key facts document & an illustration showing costs, charges & likely returns. Please can you point me to a website or company that supply these.
Comments
just set up a ‘fineco’ trading account and need some tips
Who with and what are the options?
Just remember if you buy a fund today at £2 a unit, but in 3 months time they have halved, your next purchase you're getting double the number of units! Thats why I prefer where possible to do regular monthly investments equally through the year.
Aside from that - you have 2 options. Pick a managed fund that invests in a mixture of equities & bonds or select a range of individual funds that cover all the bases.
Psychedelic meds and artificial intelligence didn’t really know he was into investing but he thinks his going to make loads of money from this.
One of several slightly fuzzy things about crypto is that -according to the disciples - only bitcoin is touted as a crypto *currency*. Ethereum is touted as a possible alternative currency when they are feeling bullish. I had to buy ethereum in order to buy Vechain tokens. But the rest, such as Vechain, and Zil (sorry, I just think of the Soviet limo every time) these are "tokens" by which you buy into...and that's where it gets even fuzzier. Apparently a Vechain token gives me some ill-defined stake in a Thing, apparently some kind of programme by which a company can use the blockchain to monitor on a grand scale, e.g every single piece of stuff that went into all its cars in all its factories - something which if true, I could see to have enormous commercial value, and cut out industrial-scale theft. It's just that I have never seen anything more than vague allusions to mega companies using it, and these allusions confined to pro-crypto media. Which is kinda, weird. That's why it makes me think of the ADBD website, the "investment fund" which claimed all kinds of blue chip companies as "Clients/partners" yet not a snippet of info about what it actually did with or for these companies. And as we all now, that's because the whole thing was a fairy-tale. I really hope that I am proven very wrong to compare ADBD to Vechain, Zil, Nipple, Berk and all the rest...
By the way, I tried, I really did. Way back in 2018 my nephew bought me a book "Cryptoassets" - Burniske&Tatar, which I read in full. It started off quite promisingly, but as it went on, it just went on and and on about how to trade the things. Nothing of any substance about what the things actually represent. Which is exactly how the thread reads to me. Oh well, people do what they wish with their own money...
I'm not trying to be rude but I really think you should spend less time worrying about old boring people like us think. I think most of us just "won't get it"...
There's a thread for cryptos by the way, you should check it out
I literally got tagged in this thread about this subject and now I'm asked why i'm talking about it in this thread?
I was only saying why I don't believe it can be a currency, it is nothing to do with the fact that I can't hold it, I know that means nothing for the relevancy of a currency, I never really have coins and notes in my hand. My point was about fluctuations in the currency, which are astronomical. If it was a currency being used in a real nation, people would use the dollar instead on the black market.
But you swerved that.
Anyway, you are actually one of my more preferred posters on this forum, believe it or not, so I would rather not get into an argument with you...
But whatever, if no one else wants to talk about it, there's no point in me flogging a dead horse.
What have you bought that have outperformed bitcoin if you bought it January 2010 vs buying bitcoin in January 2010?
Answer: There isn't anything.
I know what my 2021-22 ISA is going to look like already, but as ever nothing’s guaranteed, need the FTSE & AIM to keep moving upwards.
Many thanks