palace pretty much got promoted to the prem on the strength of selling an academy player and loaning him back - we need to produce players of that quality more often - other than defoe, who was nicked from us - when did we last produce a striker of any note? 2 centre mids yes - parker and bowyer - but both moved on to bigger clubs but in 30 years they are the only 2 we have got really decent money for so i'm all for the academy plans, just don't like all the rest of it
Palace got promoted on the back of having a manager who got that little bit extra out of his team that was just enough to see them scrape into the PL
is that the same manager that relegated millwall? Anyway, point is - manager and funds from academy sale
To get those decent player Sales you need a good source of players (our source is about to dry up as people see the club for what is). You also need decent negotiators unlike the joker in charge of these matters at Charlton. Do let me know when we get that £10m fee won't you.
yes, as i thought - another one incapable of having a rational discussion without talking about rd and his regime - nurse!!!!! its worse on here than i thought
palace pretty much got promoted to the prem on the strength of selling an academy player and loaning him back - we need to produce players of that quality more often - other than defoe, who was nicked from us - when did we last produce a striker of any note? 2 centre mids yes - parker and bowyer - but both moved on to bigger clubs but in 30 years they are the only 2 we have got really decent money for so i'm all for the academy plans, just don't like all the rest of it
Palace got promoted on the back of having a manager who got that little bit extra out of his team that was just enough to see them scrape into the PL
is that the same manager that relegated millwall? Anyway, point is - manager and funds from academy sale
To get those decent player Sales you need a good source of players (our source is about to dry up as people see the club for what is). You also need decent negotiators unlike the joker in charge of these matters at Charlton. Do let me know when we get that £10m fee won't you.
yes, as i thought - another one incapable of having a rational discussion without talking about rd and his regime - nurse!!!!! its worse on here than i thought
What an absolutely bizarre post. You come on a thread about RD and scream 'nurse' when someone talks about RD. Nurse!!!
Overall aim seems ok minus the gimmicks - hopefully now we have a new strategy hence a proper manager it might have more chance of working
2-4-6-8 who do we appreciate....ROLAND!
you are boring nugget - if you went back pre roland - and before your fixation with his network and his evil ways and all the rest of it took hold wouldn't u have wanted a club that didn't spend beyond its means, had a strong academy and had a good proportion of home gtrown players in its first team - putting all the misguided way they have gone about it to one side - if you can for a moment - would those things not be what you would want? or do you want to be reliant on a sugar daddy or have a brief spell in the prem and be a whipping boy for the really big fish fora year or so? go on, be honest - rd and his team are on their way out, their strategy has failed but the goal is not a bad one is it or do you expect somebody to put there hand in their pocket evbery year to sustain the club and if so, who is that charitable person?
You do talk bollocks. How can you put aside the mismanagement of this regime? We were building the club back up nicely. Good squad of players, great fucking manager and large crowds enjoying being a part of Charlton. So the owners ran out of investment and sold up. The Belgians could have built on that. These idiots couldn't have fucked it up any worse if they tried and you're willing to carry on like nothing has happened because a couple of League One players have come in the door and an English manager. They had the opportunity to take the club forward but no the arrogance of RD and KM beggars belief and nope I haven't seen anything yet to make me think we've changed "strategy" as you so consistently keep telling us. I don't want a sugar daddy, just owners with an ounce of footballing ambition and players that want to play for Charlton. The last game I went to I had a 50 foot net in front of me. You'd think if they felt the need to do that they might wonder what the fuck they are doing wrong. But no, it's all the fans fault? You carry on with your cheerleading douche!
Unlike some on here, I don't think RD has a grand nefarious plan to tear apart the club or disrespect the fans. However, there is clear incompetence when 1)you hire a young chief executive with no football experience and no experience running a business 2) you fire a manager every 6 months allowing no consistency 3) you underestimate the quality in the championship and think network cast offs can compete 4) you only sign foreign players and grossly overpay when there are clear red flags that the player is poor 5) you don't understand that football fans are not like normal customers and lack of transparency breeds ill will. What a sad state of affairs, previous owners were shady and not willing to spend on the team and the current owner is willing to spend but is clueless.
I have already stated their plan ha failed, I want them to go and I do not think we will be promoted but I was talking about the overall aim not the strategy - admittedly the title of the thread has caused some confusion and inflamed the douchatalet virus - I wish you a speedy recovery
Overall aim seems ok minus the gimmicks - hopefully now we have a new strategy hence a proper manager it might have more chance of working
2-4-6-8 who do we appreciate....ROLAND!
you are boring nugget - if you went back pre roland - and before your fixation with his network and his evil ways and all the rest of it took hold wouldn't u have wanted a club that didn't spend beyond its means, had a strong academy and had a good proportion of home gtrown players in its first team - putting all the misguided way they have gone about it to one side - if you can for a moment - would those things not be what you would want? or do you want to be reliant on a sugar daddy or have a brief spell in the prem and be a whipping boy for the really big fish fora year or so? go on, be honest - rd and his team are on their way out, their strategy has failed but the goal is not a bad one is it or do you expect somebody to put there hand in their pocket evbery year to sustain the club and if so, who is that charitable person?
You do talk bollocks. How can you put aside the mismanagement of this regime? We were building the club back up nicely. Good squad of players, great fucking manager and large crowds enjoying being a part of Charlton. So the owners ran out of investment and sold up. The Belgians could have built on that. These idiots couldn't have fucked it up any worse if they tried and you're willing to carry on like nothing has happened because a couple of League One players have come in the door and an English manager. They had the opportunity to take the club forward but no the arrogance of RD and KM beggars belief and nope I haven't seen anything yet to make me think we've changed "strategy" as you so consistently keep telling us. I don't want a sugar daddy, just owners with an ounce of footballing ambition and players that want to play for Charlton. The last game I went to I had a 50 foot net in front of me. You'd think if they felt the need to do that they might wonder what the fuck they are doing wrong. But no, it's all the fans fault? You carry on with your cheerleading douche!
Agreed - but why did the previous owner pull the funding when it was all going so well and why have we ended up with this experiment?
Overall aim seems ok minus the gimmicks - hopefully now we have a new strategy hence a proper manager it might have more chance of working
2-4-6-8 who do we appreciate....ROLAND!
you are boring nugget - if you went back pre roland - and before your fixation with his network and his evil ways and all the rest of it took hold wouldn't u have wanted a club that didn't spend beyond its means, had a strong academy and had a good proportion of home gtrown players in its first team - putting all the misguided way they have gone about it to one side - if you can for a moment - would those things not be what you would want? or do you want to be reliant on a sugar daddy or have a brief spell in the prem and be a whipping boy for the really big fish fora year or so? go on, be honest - rd and his team are on their way out, their strategy has failed but the goal is not a bad one is it or do you expect somebody to put there hand in their pocket evbery year to sustain the club and if so, who is that charitable person?
" putting all the misguided way they have gone about it to one side"
But in the real world you so often write about we can't do that. The strategy is flawed and the execution even worse
"wouldn't u have wanted a club that didn't spend beyond its means, had a strong academy"
The club IS spending beyond its means. It is racking up debt to around £38m under this regime, It already had a good academy long before Roland came.
"and had a good proportion of home gtrown players in its first team"
You mean like Thuram, Le Point, Koc, Polish Pete, Bergdich, Ba, Cebellos, etc etc etc etc or do you mean the ones we've sold like Poyet, Gomez and Cousins.
"their strategy has failed"
I agree with you on that. Failed miserably and yet they are still here and say they have no intention of selling. In fact Katrien and Tony still think everything is fine and £3 on a walk up ticket plus sacking a few staff (the ones who actually add value unlike themselves) will make it all right.
Overall aim seems ok minus the gimmicks - hopefully now we have a new strategy hence a proper manager it might have more chance of working
2-4-6-8 who do we appreciate....ROLAND!
you are boring nugget - if you went back pre roland - and before your fixation with his network and his evil ways and all the rest of it took hold wouldn't u have wanted a club that didn't spend beyond its means, had a strong academy and had a good proportion of home gtrown players in its first team - putting all the misguided way they have gone about it to one side - if you can for a moment - would those things not be what you would want? or do you want to be reliant on a sugar daddy or have a brief spell in the prem and be a whipping boy for the really big fish fora year or so? go on, be honest - rd and his team are on their way out, their strategy has failed but the goal is not a bad one is it or do you expect somebody to put there hand in their pocket evbery year to sustain the club and if so, who is that charitable person?
Agreed - but why did the previous owner pull the funding when it was all going so well and why have we ended up with this experiment?
I thought it was because he realised he couldn't break even in the Championship and would have to spend a lot more to get into the Prem. Unless I've misunderstood, you said earlier that it's cobblers that a club can't break even in the Championship?
I am totally convinced there is no 'plan' , RD bought Charlton because of wanting to get inside KM's knickers - so he thought lets buy a little play thing for her to muck about with- and then he might be 'in' there.After all, he doesn't really care about the losses, coz he can just lump it on our debt mountain. Once she goes, then I am convinced we will immediately be put up for sale - that's why its so important to try to undermine her, and irritate her, and get under her skin as much as possible. On our first jaunt to St Truiden last season, we happened to have a lengthy conversation with the CEO of another Belgian Pro League team who knows RD well, and he told us that he doesn't care about football.
I do not need a lesson in what this regime have done wrong as I know and agree 100% but not convinced we have to have a sugar daddy in the long term.
I hope the academy gets built as I think it is the long term future - with the right regime and the right manager, we could be a sustainable club but not without a top class academy and I think you guys are confusing RD'S complete balls up of things with the concept of planning towards a sustainable business / club - RD's lot are not the right people to do that - that is clear - I understand that, that is not being debated.
Doucher, please list as many Championship clubs that you can, that have broken even and successfully remained in The Championship, without the assistance of parachute money. Let's say in the last 10 years.
I'm fair minded so I'll check again this time tomorrow, to see the clubs listed with their profit figures listed from a reliable source.
Doucher, please list as many Championship clubs that you can, that have broken even and successfully remained in The Championship, without the assistance of parachute money. Let's say in the last 10 years.
I'm fair minded so I'll check again this time tomorrow, to see the clubs listed with their profit figures listed from a reliable source.
Ipswich Town are surely the main team...?
Relegated from the Premier League in 2001 or 2002 and they've been in the Championship ever since
Doucher, please list as many Championship clubs that you can, that have broken even and successfully remained in The Championship, without the assistance of parachute money. Let's say in the last 10 years.
I'm fair minded so I'll check again this time tomorrow, to see the clubs listed with their profit figures listed from a reliable source.
Ipswich Town are surely the main team...?
Relegated from the Premier League in 2001 or 2002 and they've been in the Championship ever since
Although havent looked at their profit figures
I'm no expert but I'd guess the likes of Burnley and Norwich are also aiming at this type of thing - you don't get many rich investors around those parts - these are the sorts of clubs that are doing things now that we were once admired for.
Doucher, please list as many Championship clubs that you can, that have broken even and successfully remained in The Championship, without the assistance of parachute money. Let's say in the last 10 years.
I'm fair minded so I'll check again this time tomorrow, to see the clubs listed with their profit figures listed from a reliable source.
Ipswich Town are surely the main team...?
Relegated from the Premier League in 2001 or 2002 and they've been in the Championship ever since
Although havent looked at their profit figures
I'm no expert but I'd guess the likes of Burnley and Norwich are also aiming at this type of thing - you don't get many rich investors around those parts - these are the sorts of clubs that are doing things now that we were once admired for.
What, having ambition and getting promoted to the Premier League you mean ?
Yes you're quite right, we were once admired for that.
Southampton must be well in profit - excellent academy of course. The aim shouldn't be to stay in the championship forever but I see success would be sustainable in the champ with forays into the prem when we have a good crop of youngsters / make good buys but we aren't wholly geared up to stay there - to me, the best place we can be, and the best times we had was when we were yo yo ing. Once your established in the prem there seems to be (apart from the freak season we've just had), a level you cannot break into and so it then just becomes a case of trying to stay up, which gets boring. If we are honest, most fans would agree with and be happy with that, wouldn't they?
Southampton must be well in profit - excellent academy of course. The aim shouldn't be to stay in the championship forever but I see success would be sustainable in the champ with forays into the prem when we have a good crop of youngsters / make good buys but we aren't wholly geared up to stay there - to me, the best place we can be, and the best times we had was when we were yo yo ing. Once your established in the prem there seems to be (apart from the freak season we've just had), a level you cannot break into and so it then just becomes a case of trying to stay up, which gets boring. If we are honest, most fans would agree with and be happy with that, wouldn't they?
Southampton made a loss every season before reaching The Premiership.
League 1 10/11 they appear to have lost £11M.
Championship 11/12 they appear to have lost £12M.
I don't disagree with what you say here, but you are AVOIDING the question.
You said under RD we could be a sustainable club ie break even. So where's the evidence.
Which other Championship club has successfully achieved this ?
Southampton must be well in profit - excellent academy of course. The aim shouldn't be to stay in the championship forever but I see success would be sustainable in the champ with forays into the prem when we have a good crop of youngsters / make good buys but we aren't wholly geared up to stay there - to me, the best place we can be, and the best times we had was when we were yo yo ing. Once your established in the prem there seems to be (apart from the freak season we've just had), a level you cannot break into and so it then just becomes a case of trying to stay up, which gets boring. If we are honest, most fans would agree with and be happy with that, wouldn't they?
Yet we are nowhere near that point so at the moment it's a pipe dream. I have no faith that this regime even wants to get us to that point let alone be able to implement what is required to get us there. It's taken relegation to the third tier before they've realised they need to make changes in the way they operate. But, even now, there are massive short-comings.
We are a few weeks away from the season kicking off and we still have half a squad of players that are absolutely useless, and there are players (including TWO goalkeepers) that are yet to leave. Even if we managed to get enough quality players to compete in this division tomorrow, it's a tough ask for Slade to get them ready as we are running out of time. It's highly likely that when the start of the season comes, we will be in exactly the same position as last season and the one before, i.e lacking a squad that is fit for purpose, or at the very least, a squad that is unprepared due to the players coming in at the last minute.
I wouldn't be so quick to pronounce that the worm has turned, because from my point of view, it looks like they've given a little, but ultimately haven't changed very much.
Any idea what it is? The only plan in evidence seems to be constant cost cutting and little or no investment in the playing squad. The losses seem guaranteed to continue and I can't see any way he can recoup them. He and KM have no interest in building a successful team and it just continues to be like watching a slow motion car crash.
There can be no remnant of the mad old duffer's plan cos he didn't have any sort of plan in the the first place. He hasn't even employed anybody who knows what strategy might be. Every time he or KM has spoken about 'strategy' they just state the aims (bring youngsters out of the academy sell them early and simultaneously consolidate in the championship and promotion to pl to follow) not how they might achieve those aims.
This was a good article on the BBC website. I'm sure RD just bought us for some sort of tax avoidance reasons. So there are no plans and he's probably quite happy for us to be in Division One. He doesn't care about us as a club at all, hence the number of games he's been to watch.
Southampton must be well in profit - excellent academy of course. The aim shouldn't be to stay in the championship forever but I see success would be sustainable in the champ with forays into the prem when we have a good crop of youngsters / make good buys but we aren't wholly geared up to stay there - to me, the best place we can be, and the best times we had was when we were yo yo ing. Once your established in the prem there seems to be (apart from the freak season we've just had), a level you cannot break into and so it then just becomes a case of trying to stay up, which gets boring. If we are honest, most fans would agree with and be happy with that, wouldn't they?
Southampton made a loss every season before reaching The Premiership.
League 1 10/11 they appear to have lost £11M.
Championship 11/12 they appear to have lost £12M.
I don't disagree with what you say here, but you are AVOIDING the question.
You said under RD we could be a sustainable club ie break even. So where's the evidence.
Which other Championship club has successfully achieved this ?
Brilliant. Doucher's example of a Championship Club that operates in profit is:
- Currently in the Premier League; - Began 2009/2010 with -10 points after going in to administration; - Lost £11M in the Third Division in 2010/11; - Lost £12M in the Second Division in 2011/12.
So that excellent and profitable club actually went in to admin and burnt through £23M of losses in the following two years, seemingly gambling on getting back to The Prem.
This was a good article on the BBC website. I'm sure RD just bought us for some sort of tax avoidance reasons. So there are no plans and he's probably quite happy for us to be in Division One. He doesn't care about us as a club at all, hence the number of games he's been to watch.
I kinda wish that was the case, because then Roland wouldn't actually care too much about losses - and probably wouldn't be gambling the club away on this deluded plan. He would simply write the losses off and enjoy his tax money going in to something that he still owned.
I'm open to being corrected, but I seem to recall that when he purchased the club someone remarked that in Belgium, a company may write off the losses of another company in the same group even if those companies aren't related in business activities. (Whereas in the UK I believe the companies have to have a relationship that goes beyond ownership; so an electronics company writing tax off against a football club wouldn't be allowed here, but an electronics company writing tax off against a software company might be for instance.)
Southampton must be well in profit - excellent academy of course. The aim shouldn't be to stay in the championship forever but I see success would be sustainable in the champ with forays into the prem when we have a good crop of youngsters / make good buys but we aren't wholly geared up to stay there - to me, the best place we can be, and the best times we had was when we were yo yo ing. Once your established in the prem there seems to be (apart from the freak season we've just had), a level you cannot break into and so it then just becomes a case of trying to stay up, which gets boring. If we are honest, most fans would agree with and be happy with that, wouldn't they?
Southampton made a loss every season before reaching The Premiership.
League 1 10/11 they appear to have lost £11M.
Championship 11/12 they appear to have lost £12M.
I don't disagree with what you say here, but you are AVOIDING the question.
You said under RD we could be a sustainable club ie break even. So where's the evidence.
Which other Championship club has successfully achieved this ?
I have never said under rd - I'm talking about the concept of being sustainable - do we really all think it's impossible? If so, the future for English football is pretty bleak
Comments
Clearly those in the know have great respect for the current owner and owner flunky decisions
Still @doucher keep it up.
Agreed - but why did the previous owner pull the funding when it was all going so well and why have we ended up with this experiment?
But in the real world you so often write about we can't do that. The strategy is flawed and the execution even worse
"wouldn't u have wanted a club that didn't spend beyond its means, had a strong academy"
The club IS spending beyond its means. It is racking up debt to around £38m under this regime, It already had a good academy long before Roland came.
"and had a good proportion of home gtrown players in its first team"
You mean like Thuram, Le Point, Koc, Polish Pete, Bergdich, Ba, Cebellos, etc etc etc etc or do you mean the ones we've sold like Poyet, Gomez and Cousins.
"their strategy has failed"
I agree with you on that. Failed miserably and yet they are still here and say they have no intention of selling. In fact Katrien and Tony still think everything is fine and £3 on a walk up ticket plus sacking a few staff (the ones who actually add value unlike themselves) will make it all right.
I thought it was because he realised he couldn't break even in the Championship and would have to spend a lot more to get into the Prem. Unless I've misunderstood, you said earlier that it's cobblers that a club can't break even in the Championship?
RD bought Charlton because of wanting to get inside KM's knickers - so he thought lets buy a little play thing for her to muck about with- and then he might be 'in' there.After all, he doesn't really care about the losses, coz he can just lump it on our debt mountain. Once she goes, then I am convinced we will immediately be put up for sale - that's why its so important to try to undermine her, and irritate her, and get under her skin as much as possible.
On our first jaunt to St Truiden last season, we happened to have a lengthy conversation with the CEO of another Belgian Pro League team who knows RD well, and he told us that he doesn't care about football.
I hope the academy gets built as I think it is the long term future - with the right regime and the right manager, we could be a sustainable club but not without a top class academy and I think you guys are confusing RD'S complete balls up of things with the concept of planning towards a sustainable business / club - RD's lot are not the right people to do that - that is clear - I understand that, that is not being debated.
I'm fair minded so I'll check again this time tomorrow, to see the clubs listed with their profit figures listed from a reliable source.
Relegated from the Premier League in 2001 or 2002 and they've been in the Championship ever since
Although havent looked at their profit figures
In fact hes done a lot worse, so you cant see it as anything but total failure.
But yes, one of the better run clubs
http://swissramble.blogspot.co.uk/2015/08/ipswich-town-forever-same.html
Yes you're quite right, we were once admired for that.
League 1 10/11 they appear to have lost £11M.
Championship 11/12 they appear to have lost £12M.
I don't disagree with what you say here, but you are AVOIDING the question.
You said under RD we could be a sustainable club ie break even. So where's the evidence.
Which other Championship club has successfully achieved this ?
http://swissramble.blogspot.co.uk/2015/05/southampton-saints-are-coming.html
We are a few weeks away from the season kicking off and we still have half a squad of players that are absolutely useless, and there are players (including TWO goalkeepers) that are yet to leave. Even if we managed to get enough quality players to compete in this division tomorrow, it's a tough ask for Slade to get them ready as we are running out of time. It's highly likely that when the start of the season comes, we will be in exactly the same position as last season and the one before, i.e lacking a squad that is fit for purpose, or at the very least, a squad that is unprepared due to the players coming in at the last minute.
I wouldn't be so quick to pronounce that the worm has turned, because from my point of view, it looks like they've given a little, but ultimately haven't changed very much.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/36266364
- Currently in the Premier League;
- Began 2009/2010 with -10 points after going in to administration;
- Lost £11M in the Third Division in 2010/11;
- Lost £12M in the Second Division in 2011/12.
So that excellent and profitable club actually went in to admin and burnt through £23M of losses in the following two years, seemingly gambling on getting back to The Prem.
I'm open to being corrected, but I seem to recall that when he purchased the club someone remarked that in Belgium, a company may write off the losses of another company in the same group even if those companies aren't related in business activities. (Whereas in the UK I believe the companies have to have a relationship that goes beyond ownership; so an electronics company writing tax off against a football club wouldn't be allowed here, but an electronics company writing tax off against a software company might be for instance.)