Which bit am I letting go? Scotland? 2% growth? Free movement of goods,services and people?
Or perhaps my life long loathing of racism and the far right?
All I can say for certain is that the petition on the referendum has gone over 1.5M today.
The petition site crashed last night under the weight of traffic. It is currently running at 50,000 new signatures an hour.
Those on remain who challenge this situation are not alone - far from it.
And this movement is made up of intelligent motivated people with a lot to lose.
Also if you think that Brexit is racist then you need to wake up mate.
Currently anyone from 27 EU Nations are free to come and go yet anyone from the other 185+ Nations have to apply for a VISA.
That basically means we're discriminating against every Nation that isnt part of the EU by potentially refusing to let them into the UK.
By voting out it means that it doesnt matter if Tomasz is from Poland / Nigeria / Brazil / New Zealand if he has the required skill set then he's allowed to come here and work, if he doesnt then he isnt allowed - Would love to know exactly how that can possibly be viewed as being racist!!
'I now understand more about it than I did in the first place'. What in 24 hours? The debate has been raging for months yet you learn more in the 24 hrs since you voted than you found out before. Weird, not meaning unique on this occasion. And that Mandy women, what an idiot.
I personally think we will have a wait and see situation. If there is a financial crisis, lots of job losses, broken brexit promises and general fuckup-ery then i wouldn't be surprised to see a second referendum come about, with very different results.
This is what I've been explaining to people over here. Cameron (and Junker) said this was a "final vote," but Cameron doesn't matter now (we can argue later if he ever did). Should this throw Britain into a recession, I suspect there will be clamoring for either a redo, some sort of "line item" vote, or as you say a discussion in the Commons.
Anyone who signs this petition is doing the equivalent of publicly having a hissy fit.
At best, some are doing it because they are childish, petulant and immature. Some are doing it out of some naive sense of entitlement (I'm looking at you generation snowflake). Some are doing it because they are thick and don't understand how democracy works. However, most worryingly, some (particularly those of a left wing persuasion) are doing it because they have fascistic tendencies..... I am seeing purportedly 'progressive' types openly discussing how they should be able to over-rule the poor, uneducated thickos because 'they are right' and that the democratic system should be replaced with something whereby clever and moral people such as themselves should be the only ones to decide what happens in our society.
The biggest worry is that they have failed to learn from the big lesson that the British electorate has just taught them; i.e it was those sanctimonious, contemptuous and arrogant attitudes that were the main reason that they lost this vote in the first place. Funnily enough, patronising people and calling them thick (or fascists) doesn't turn out to be an effective way of winning people over to your arguments....who'd have thought it, eh?
Why at 10'clock on Thursday night did Nigel Farage say Remain were going to just win ? Was he set up by his hedge fund mates so they could make another killing ? before the Newcastle and Sunderland results came in ? Predicting the falling pound in the minutes before it crashed. So much disinformation from both sides.
Because the polls suggested they would.
So they read the minds of the 10% who were undecided until the last hour or changed their mind in the last few days.
Farage went by what his city mates told him, not what the polls were saying.
But, irrespective of the result, should a potentially momentous decision, either keeping things more or less as they are or a huge leap in the dark with potentially dire consequencies, be decided by a simple majority ?
'I now understand more about it than I did in the first place'. What in 24 hours? The debate has been raging for months yet you learn more in the 24 hrs since you voted than you found out before. Weird, not meaning uniq ue on this occasion. And that Mandy women, what an idiot.
Apparently "What will happen if Britain leaves the EU" was the most Googled term in Britain on Thursday night.
@ForeverAddickted I'm not talking about a lack of/failure of democracy. I'm talking about new situations coming to light which would cause a new vote, just as a PM calls a new vote when he feels there is a need/n confidence in him/his Government/etc.
I suppose one could argue that the Leave campaign coming out the day after and saying "yeah...we're not going to put 320m/week into the NHS might count as a "change in situation." But do you lot really believe things politicians say? Or slogans written on buses? I know here in the US we have an ~18 Month election cycle for president, so maybe that's just more time for more lies, but even basic maths would suggest that's unfeasible. But if people believe that, that's fucking quaint.
It'll be interesting to see what the EU would do should Britain change their minds. Suspect they'll demand a mea culpa, a pound of flesh, and maybe a Walk of Repentance (Note: This does not mean the Queen needs to walk naked through the streets, at least not necessarily)
Ha, I am loving some of these comments. You lost, get over it and get behind your country.
Nope. You learn the lesson of what went wrong and do what the anti EU citizens have been doing since our country joined, organise and campaign for what you want. You maybe won't get all you want, but you may get to mitigate things and keep most of the laws and agreements you like. Battle lost but the war continues.
I very reluctantly voted remain for selfish purposes (I don't work in a sector where immigrants are going to undercut me and take my job, and I am doing just fine so I don't need change) but the self righteousness of the remain make me wish I voted leave, and if there is another referendum I will definitely vote leave out of principle that a democratic referendum has taken place and now some are looking to override it because it isn't the result they wanted...
The "we are smarter than you" mentality of remain campaigners is disgusting, for years the white working class have been let down. What we actually need is (and as someone centre-right this is a strange thing to say) higher wages for a lot of low skilled jobs, so that the British will fill those jobs. We need to pay a bit more for the things that we get very cheaply in order to support these communities.
We need to get the Brits to fill these roles rather than importing immigrants because then all you do is effectively import unemployment of the indigenous population.
Wonder how many of the people signing that petition actually went and voted to remain. Bit late now and totally pointless. Besides, what does 1m people signing a petition matter when 17-18m people voted to leave!
If we have a 2nd referendum and remain wins, do 'leave' then start a petition to have a 3rd one?
Ha, I am loving some of these comments. You lost, get over it and get behind your country.
Nope. You learn the lesson of what went wrong and do what the anti EU citizens have been doing since our country joined, organise and campaign for what you want. You maybe won't get all you want, but you may get to mitigate things and keep most of the laws and agreements you like. Battle lost but the war continues.
I would even downplay that a bit (for the sake of argument) and say that it should be a "pick and choose" situation, regardless on how you voted. There is no need to reinvent the wheel, and the UK still uses the Magna Carta as a founding document FFS.
I would imagine even the most ardent "Leave" supporter doesn't disagree with ALL EU laws. I mean surely there's an obscure fishing law on the books that would at least make you say "meh, whatever."
Wonder how many of the people signing that petition actually went and voted to remain. Bit late now and totally pointless. Besides, what does 1m people signing a petition matter when 17-18m people voted to leave!
If we have a 2nd referendum and remain wins, do 'leave' then start a petition to have a 3rd one?
People need to get over it and move on.
unfortunately, there is history of rerun referenda until the pro EUs get the result they want .. I would not be at all surprised if there was not another UK referendum ordered before Cameron's stated exit time of October .. the vast majority of MPs are pro Europe .. this whole thing needs resolving .. GENERAL ELECTION please .. let the majority elect a new government which might actually carry out the will of the majority of the people
Ha, I am loving some of these comments. You lost, get over it and get behind your country.
Nope. You learn the lesson of what went wrong and do what the anti EU citizens have been doing since our country joined, organise and campaign for what you want. You maybe won't get all you want, but you may get to mitigate things and keep most of the laws and agreements you like. Battle lost but the war continues.
I would even downplay that a bit (for the sake of argument) and say that it should be a "pick and choose" situation, regardless on how you voted. There is no need to reinvent the wheel, and the UK still uses the Magna Carta as a founding document FFS.
I would imagine even the most ardent "Leave" supporter doesn't disagree with ALL EU laws. I mean surely there's an obscure fishing law on the books that would at least make you say "meh, whatever."
The most ardent "Leave" supporters simply want the right for their democratically elected representatives to make the laws themselves rather than have those laws imposed upon them by an unelected EU.
The content of some of those laws is not necessarily in dispute.
Ha, I am loving some of these comments. You lost, get over it and get behind your country.
Nope. You learn the lesson of what went wrong and do what the anti EU citizens have been doing since our country joined, organise and campaign for what you want. You maybe won't get all you want, but you may get to mitigate things and keep most of the laws and agreements you like. Battle lost but the war continues.
I would even downplay that a bit (for the sake of argument) and say that it should be a "pick and choose" situation, regardless on how you voted. There is no need to reinvent the wheel, and the UK still uses the Magna Carta as a founding document FFS.
I would imagine even the most ardent "Leave" supporter doesn't disagree with ALL EU laws. I mean surely there's an obscure fishing law on the books that would at least make you say "meh, whatever."
The most ardent "Leave" supporters simply want the right for their democratically elected representatives to make the laws themselves rather than have those laws imposed upon them by an unelected EU.
The content of some of those laws is not necessarily in dispute.
Right, and I think that's in line with what I was saying.
Really a Brexit should only been allowed to happen if 50% + 1 of those eligble to vote said leave. Instead of what the majority of those who did vote. So for example 17,410,742 voted to leave and where 16,141,241 said remain so more people who voted said leave. So only around 37.5% of eligble voters voted to leave. And I think around 46,500,000 people in the UK are eligble to vote. So for Britain to leave the EU at least 23,250,001 people would need to say leave for the UK to leave the EU.
I hope all of the people here that say that at least 50% of the eligible electorate should have to vote out will back the same principle for strike action that has been discussed recently...
Ha, I am loving some of these comments. You lost, get over it and get behind your country.
Nope. You learn the lesson of what went wrong and do what the anti EU citizens have been doing since our country joined, organise and campaign for what you want. You maybe won't get all you want, but you may get to mitigate things and keep most of the laws and agreements you like. Battle lost but the war continues.
I would even downplay that a bit (for the sake of argument) and say that it should be a "pick and choose" situation, regardless on how you voted. There is no need to reinvent the wheel, and the UK still uses the Magna Carta as a founding document FFS.
I would imagine even the most ardent "Leave" supporter doesn't disagree with ALL EU laws. I mean surely there's an obscure fishing law on the books that would at least make you say "meh, whatever."
The most ardent "Leave" supporters simply want the right for their democratically elected representatives to make the laws themselves rather than have those laws imposed upon them by an unelected EU.
The content of some of those laws is not necessarily in dispute.
Well that's quite handy then because most of these EU derived laws that's so many hated will be kept.
Really a Brexit should only been allowed to happen if 50% + 1 of those eligble to vote said leave. Instead of what the majority of those who did vote. So for example 17,410,742 voted to leave and where 16,141,241 said remain so more people who voted said leave. So only around 37.5% of eligble voters voted to leave. And I think around 46,500,000 people in the UK are eligble to vote. So for Britain to leave the EU at least 23,250,001 people would need to say leave for the UK to leave the EU.
But, irrespective of the result, should a potentially momentous decision, either keeping things more or less as they are or a huge leap in the dark with potentially dire consequencies, be decided by a simple majority ?
No it should be decided by a democratically elected government with strong leadership, privy to expert advice and all the salient facts and an informed prognosis of the consequences of both options, IMHO
Edited - Wtf do we elect them for if not to make decisions like this?
But, irrespective of the result, should a potentially momentous decision, either keeping things more or less as they are or a huge leap in the dark with potentially dire consequencies, be decided by a simple majority ?
No it should be decided by a democratically elected government with strong leadership, privy to expert advice and all the salient facts and an informed prognosis of the consequences of both options, IMHO
Edited - Wtf do we elect them for if not to make decisions like this?
Who the fuck do you elect that you think can do that?
Again, I'm sorry, I'm so jaded by US politicians that if a politician has read a book other than the bible I'm just about over the moon.
This unelected beurocrats voting in the EU is a lie that needs to stop. MEPs vote in the EU, they ARE elected. If people chose to elect Farage as one of those, are they surprised it doesn't work as they wish?
The house of lords is unelected and the highest court in the land. They are unelected. Let's not use lies to strengthen arguments.
But, irrespective of the result, should a potentially momentous decision, either keeping things more or less as they are or a huge leap in the dark with potentially dire consequencies, be decided by a simple majority ?
No it should be decided by a democratically elected government with strong leadership, privy to expert advice and all the salient facts and an informed prognosis of the consequences of both options, IMHO
Edited - Wtf do we elect them for if not to make decisions like this?
Who the fuck do you elect that you think can do that?
Again, I'm sorry, I'm so jaded by US politicians that if a politician has read a book other than the bible I'm just about over the moon.
Therein lies the problem, we appear to be in an age of political midgets and career politicians. Even those who appear to have principles lack charisma.
Ha, I am loving some of these comments. You lost, get over it and get behind your country.
You're so right mate! We've got our country back and now hopefully we can all enjoy the massive benefits. Gove and Johnson must have spent at least ten minutes planning what we do next - hopefully Bojo can make a few amusing comments and Govey can just ignore all those idiotic experts. Farage can wave a few Union Jacks and we can all take about how things were better in the old days(c1500) before those nasty old foreigners came here There won't be any more immigration, all British people will get a job and the housing problem will disappear. The economy will surge onwards and upwards and all those who voted Remain can f*** off. Nearly all those who voted Remain are PC British hating do gooders who hate this country.
But, irrespective of the result, should a potentially momentous decision, either keeping things more or less as they are or a huge leap in the dark with potentially dire consequencies, be decided by a simple majority ?
No it should be decided by a democratically elected government with strong leadership, privy to expert advice and all the salient facts and an informed prognosis of the consequences of both options, IMHO
Edited - Wtf do we elect them for if not to make decisions like this?
This country is tired of experts - are you seriously telling me that experts know better?
Comments
Just as History will always be written by the winner
Currently anyone from 27 EU Nations are free to come and go yet anyone from the other 185+ Nations have to apply for a VISA.
That basically means we're discriminating against every Nation that isnt part of the EU by potentially refusing to let them into the UK.
By voting out it means that it doesnt matter if Tomasz is from Poland / Nigeria / Brazil / New Zealand if he has the required skill set then he's allowed to come here and work, if he doesnt then he isnt allowed - Would love to know exactly how that can possibly be viewed as being racist!!
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3658563/Meet-Bregretters-Public-backed-Leave-vote-say-want-STAY-EU-one-admits-didn-t-think-vote-count.html
At best, some are doing it because they are childish, petulant and immature. Some are doing it out of some naive sense of entitlement (I'm looking at you generation snowflake). Some are doing it because they are thick and don't understand how democracy works. However, most worryingly, some (particularly those of a left wing persuasion) are doing it because they have fascistic tendencies..... I am seeing purportedly 'progressive' types openly discussing how they should be able to over-rule the poor, uneducated thickos because 'they are right' and that the democratic system should be replaced with something whereby clever and moral people such as themselves should be the only ones to decide what happens in our society.
The biggest worry is that they have failed to learn from the big lesson that the British electorate has just taught them; i.e it was those sanctimonious, contemptuous and arrogant attitudes that were the main reason that they lost this vote in the first place. Funnily enough, patronising people and calling them thick (or fascists) doesn't turn out to be an effective way of winning people over to your arguments....who'd have thought it, eh?
Farage went by what his city mates told him, not what the polls were saying.
@ForeverAddickted I'm not talking about a lack of/failure of democracy. I'm talking about new situations coming to light which would cause a new vote, just as a PM calls a new vote when he feels there is a need/n confidence in him/his Government/etc.
I suppose one could argue that the Leave campaign coming out the day after and saying "yeah...we're not going to put 320m/week into the NHS might count as a "change in situation." But do you lot really believe things politicians say? Or slogans written on buses? I know here in the US we have an ~18 Month election cycle for president, so maybe that's just more time for more lies, but even basic maths would suggest that's unfeasible. But if people believe that, that's fucking quaint.
It'll be interesting to see what the EU would do should Britain change their minds. Suspect they'll demand a mea culpa, a pound of flesh, and maybe a Walk of Repentance (Note: This does not mean the Queen needs to walk naked through the streets, at least not necessarily)
You lost, get over it and get behind your country.
The "we are smarter than you" mentality of remain campaigners is disgusting, for years the white working class have been let down. What we actually need is (and as someone centre-right this is a strange thing to say) higher wages for a lot of low skilled jobs, so that the British will fill those jobs. We need to pay a bit more for the things that we get very cheaply in order to support these communities.
We need to get the Brits to fill these roles rather than importing immigrants because then all you do is effectively import unemployment of the indigenous population.
Wonder how many of the people signing that petition actually went and voted to remain. Bit late now and totally pointless. Besides, what does 1m people signing a petition matter when 17-18m people voted to leave!
If we have a 2nd referendum and remain wins, do 'leave' then start a petition to have a 3rd one?
People need to get over it and move on.
I would imagine even the most ardent "Leave" supporter doesn't disagree with ALL EU laws. I mean surely there's an obscure fishing law on the books that would at least make you say "meh, whatever."
The content of some of those laws is not necessarily in dispute.
Edited - Wtf do we elect them for if not to make decisions like this?
Again, I'm sorry, I'm so jaded by US politicians that if a politician has read a book other than the bible I'm just about over the moon.
The house of lords is unelected and the highest court in the land. They are unelected. Let's not use lies to strengthen arguments.
Even those who appear to have principles lack charisma.
Farage can wave a few Union Jacks and we can all take about how things were better in the old days(c1500) before those nasty old foreigners came here There won't be any more immigration, all British people will get a job and the housing problem will disappear. The economy will surge onwards and upwards and all those who voted Remain can f*** off.
Nearly all those who voted Remain are PC British hating do gooders who hate this country.