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The Battle of the East Stand

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Comments

  • Why did they let the Burnley supporters on but assult the Charlton ones.one Burnley fan just walked past four stewards who made no attempt to stop him
  • While I agree with nearly all of what has been said about the OTT, chaotic and one sided stewarding and policing I do think that we are adults and so have to accept any reasonable consequences of our actions.

    We all know we're not allowed on the pitch. Yes, allowing the Burnley fans to stroll on while actively preventing Charlton fans doing the same was unfair but life ain't fair.

    We protested and well done to everyone who did get on the pitch but we knew we were breaking the rules
    Wasn't that the point?

    Again I'm not defending the police and stewards uncalled for violence or their incompetence.

    Nor I'm I blaming fans but we did what we did.

    This doesn't justify disproportionate policing/stewarding. The Met in particular have to be seen to be fair and proportionate but yesterday, it seems, they have discriminated against one set of the public when compared to another. That alone merits a form of complaint imo.
    It wasn't just the met, City of London police were being used.
  • While I agree with nearly all of what has been said about the OTT, chaotic and one sided stewarding and policing I do think that we are adults and so have to accept any reasonable consequences of our actions.

    We all know we're not allowed on the pitch. Yes, allowing the Burnley fans to stroll on while actively preventing Charlton fans doing the same was unfair but life ain't fair.

    We protested and well done to everyone who did get on the pitch but we knew we were breaking the rules
    Wasn't that the point?

    Again I'm not defending the police and stewards uncalled for violence or their incompetence.

    Nor I'm I blaming fans but we did what we did.

    This doesn't justify disproportionate policing/stewarding. The Met in particular have to be seen to be fair and proportionate but yesterday, it seems, they have discriminated against one set of the public when compared to another. That alone merits a form of complaint imo.
    The police always have, and always will, serve the money. And in this instance that's the club. So we pay their wages and we are the ones they see as the "enemy", after all we're only football fans and everyone knows we're scum.
  • edited May 2016
    x
  • iainment said:

    While I agree with nearly all of what has been said about the OTT, chaotic and one sided stewarding and policing I do think that we are adults and so have to accept any reasonable consequences of our actions.

    We all know we're not allowed on the pitch. Yes, allowing the Burnley fans to stroll on while actively preventing Charlton fans doing the same was unfair but life ain't fair.

    We protested and well done to everyone who did get on the pitch but we knew we were breaking the rules
    Wasn't that the point?

    Again I'm not defending the police and stewards uncalled for violence or their incompetence.

    Nor I'm I blaming fans but we did what we did.

    This doesn't justify disproportionate policing/stewarding. The Met in particular have to be seen to be fair and proportionate but yesterday, it seems, they have discriminated against one set of the public when compared to another. That alone merits a form of complaint imo.
    The police always have, and always will, serve the money. And in this instance that's the club. So we pay their wages and we are the ones they see as the "enemy", after all we're only football fans and everyone knows we're scum.
    But my point is, they treated one set of fans differently to the other.
  • razil said:

    There was Bovril and blankets everywhere..

    Hoorah, we did our bit in the West Upper!
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  • iainment said:

    While I agree with nearly all of what has been said about the OTT, chaotic and one sided stewarding and policing I do think that we are adults and so have to accept any reasonable consequences of our actions.

    We all know we're not allowed on the pitch. Yes, allowing the Burnley fans to stroll on while actively preventing Charlton fans doing the same was unfair but life ain't fair.

    We protested and well done to everyone who did get on the pitch but we knew we were breaking the rules
    Wasn't that the point?

    Again I'm not defending the police and stewards uncalled for violence or their incompetence.

    Nor I'm I blaming fans but we did what we did.

    This doesn't justify disproportionate policing/stewarding. The Met in particular have to be seen to be fair and proportionate but yesterday, it seems, they have discriminated against one set of the public when compared to another. That alone merits a form of complaint imo.
    The police always have, and always will, serve the money. And in this instance that's the club. So we pay their wages and we are the ones they see as the "enemy", after all we're only football fans and everyone knows we're scum.
    But my point is, they treated one set of fans differently to the other.
    To be fair they were tasked with keeping the Charlton fans off the pitch. The officers at the North Stand would not have been invited to ignore their 'orders' if Burnley fans decided to enter the pitch in very large numbers.

    Two wrongs don't make a right. They did try to keep the Burnley fans in the South Stand but they failed that is not, automatically, justification to allow the Charlton fans onto the pitch too. It's not as though they were handing out sweets and gave an unfair amount to one set of children at the expense of another set.

    If fans complained to the Police what would the argument be?.... While we were trying to break the law someone else committed a similar crime and the Police refused to step aside to make it easier for us to break the law? The Police have an obligation to prevent crime - all crime. Would we be happy for the Police to allow someone to break into our house and steal our stuff because down the road someone else has had their house burgled?

    I'm sure I will be accused of making a silly comparison and, like Henry, I was appalled at the treatment of some of our fans by the Stewards, but I just think we are going to struggle to prove that the Police should have stepped aside to allow Charlton fans to rush onto the pitch because they'd failed to stop the Burnley fans.
  • While I agree with nearly all of what has been said about the OTT, chaotic and one sided stewarding and policing I do think that we are adults and so have to accept any reasonable consequences of our actions.

    We all know we're not allowed on the pitch. Yes, allowing the Burnley fans to stroll on while actively preventing Charlton fans doing the same was unfair but life ain't fair.

    We protested and well done to everyone who did get on the pitch but we knew we were breaking the rules
    Wasn't that the point?

    Again I'm not defending the police and stewards uncalled for violence or their incompetence.

    Nor I'm I blaming fans but we did what we did.

    This doesn't justify disproportionate policing/stewarding. The Met in particular have to be seen to be fair and proportionate but yesterday, it seems, they have discriminated against one set of the public when compared to another. That alone merits a form of complaint imo.
    And I quite clearly stated that I don't think it justifies some of the stewards and police behaviour
  • edited May 2016
    Perhaps there should now be a specific place for actual allegations to be collated. I suspect that not many will want to persue action but some might.

    If nothing else it could be used to present to the club and others exactly what took place to emphasise just how unacceptable the actions were.

    Perhaps the press might even pick it up. We are after all well acknowledged as being a very placid set of fans.
  • iainment said:

    While I agree with nearly all of what has been said about the OTT, chaotic and one sided stewarding and policing I do think that we are adults and so have to accept any reasonable consequences of our actions.

    We all know we're not allowed on the pitch. Yes, allowing the Burnley fans to stroll on while actively preventing Charlton fans doing the same was unfair but life ain't fair.

    We protested and well done to everyone who did get on the pitch but we knew we were breaking the rules
    Wasn't that the point?

    Again I'm not defending the police and stewards uncalled for violence or their incompetence.

    Nor I'm I blaming fans but we did what we did.

    This doesn't justify disproportionate policing/stewarding. The Met in particular have to be seen to be fair and proportionate but yesterday, it seems, they have discriminated against one set of the public when compared to another. That alone merits a form of complaint imo.
    The police always have, and always will, serve the money. And in this instance that's the club. So we pay their wages and we are the ones they see as the "enemy", after all we're only football fans and everyone knows we're scum.
    But my point is, they treated one set of fans differently to the other.
    To be fair they were tasked with keeping the Charlton fans off the pitch. The officers at the North Stand would not have been invited to ignore their 'orders' if Burnley fans decided to enter the pitch in very large numbers.

    Two wrongs don't make a right. They did try to keep the Burnley fans in the South Stand but they failed that is not, automatically, justification to allow the Charlton fans onto the pitch too. It's not as though they were handing out sweets and gave an unfair amount to one set of children at the expense of another set.

    If fans complained to the Police what would the argument be?.... While we were trying to break the law someone else committed a similar crime and the Police refused to step aside to make it easier for us to break the law? The Police have an obligation to prevent crime - all crime. Would we be happy for the Police to allow someone to break into our house and steal our stuff because down the road someone else has had their house burgled?

    I'm sure I will be accused of making a silly comparison and, like Henry, I was appalled at the treatment of some of our fans by the Stewards, but I just think we are going to struggle to prove that the Police should have stepped aside to allow Charlton fans to rush onto the pitch because they'd failed to stop the Burnley fans.
    I disagree that they tried to keep the Burnley fans off the pitch.
  • Perhaps there should now be a specific place for actual allegations to be collated. I suspect that not many will want to persue action but some might.

    If nothing else it could be used to present to the club and others exactly what took place to emphasise just how unacceptable the actions were.

    Perhaps the press might even pick it up. We are after all well acknowledged as being a very placid set of fans.

    I agree with this plan but I think the press would be unlikely to challenge the authorities where an adult clearly broke the law. If an under 16 was manhandled and suffered a serious injury then maybe, but I think anything other than that would attract little support.
  • The police were probably even more determined to keep the Charlton fans off the pitch once the Burnley fans were on. We all know that the atmosphere wasn't violent in this instance - but they would probably see it as having the potential for two sets of fans clashing, and that would be very difficult to contain.

  • Perhaps there should now be a specific place for actual allegations to be collated. I suspect that not many will want to persue action but some might.

    If nothing else it could be used to present to the club and others exactly what took place to emphasise just how unacceptable the actions were.

    Perhaps the press might even pick it up. We are after all well acknowledged as being a very placid set of fans.

    I agree with this plan but I think the press would be unlikely to challenge the authorities where an adult clearly broke the law. If an under 16 was manhandled and suffered a serious injury then maybe, but I think anything other than that would attract little support.
    My understanding is that there were a lot of incidents that happened within the confines of the stands. Nothing to do with the pitch.

  • While I agree with nearly all of what has been said about the OTT, chaotic and one sided stewarding and policing I do think that we are adults and so have to accept any reasonable consequences of our actions.

    We all know we're not allowed on the pitch. Yes, allowing the Burnley fans to stroll on while actively preventing Charlton fans doing the same was unfair but life ain't fair.

    We protested and well done to everyone who did get on the pitch but we knew we were breaking the rules
    Wasn't that the point?

    Again I'm not defending the police and stewards uncalled for violence or their incompetence.

    Nor I'm I blaming fans but we did what we did.

    Hallelujah!! What did we expect them to do? Stand back and let that gaggle of 30+ or so in the NWQ get on the pitch and potentially confront the Burnley fans, thus probably causing more disorder? They were hardly going to stand back and let those involved get on and confront opposition fans.

    They have had weeks of protests/disruptions and in the build up to this game they would have monitored all forums/sites/feeds etc and judged it to be an ever higher risk game as it was the last of the season.

    You know what, if you didn't want them to act in a 'heavy handed' (bless) manner then don't try and break the law!! It ain't rocket science. And if you do (understandably) want to cause bit of grief and disruption accept the consequences!!

    Loads of OTT reaction on this forum at present following yesterday's events!!
  • While I agree with nearly all of what has been said about the OTT, chaotic and one sided stewarding and policing I do think that we are adults and so have to accept any reasonable consequences of our actions.

    We all know we're not allowed on the pitch. Yes, allowing the Burnley fans to stroll on while actively preventing Charlton fans doing the same was unfair but life ain't fair.

    We protested and well done to everyone who did get on the pitch but we knew we were breaking the rules
    Wasn't that the point?

    Again I'm not defending the police and stewards uncalled for violence or their incompetence.

    Nor I'm I blaming fans but we did what we did.

    This doesn't justify disproportionate policing/stewarding. The Met in particular have to be seen to be fair and proportionate but yesterday, it seems, they have discriminated against one set of the public when compared to another. That alone merits a form of complaint imo.
    It wasn't just the met, City of London police were being used.
    Wait till they realise an Italian mob raided the Bank of England bullion vaults over the weekend while we occupied them at the Valley and made their escape using souped up green, white and red Fiat 500s
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  • While I agree with nearly all of what has been said about the OTT, chaotic and one sided stewarding and policing I do think that we are adults and so have to accept any reasonable consequences of our actions.

    We all know we're not allowed on the pitch. Yes, allowing the Burnley fans to stroll on while actively preventing Charlton fans doing the same was unfair but life ain't fair.

    We protested and well done to everyone who did get on the pitch but we knew we were breaking the rules
    Wasn't that the point?

    Again I'm not defending the police and stewards uncalled for violence or their incompetence.

    Nor I'm I blaming fans but we did what we did.

    Hallelujah!! What did we expect them to do? Stand back and let that gaggle of 30+ or so in the NWQ get on the pitch and potentially confront the Burnley fans, thus probably causing more disorder? They were hardly going to stand back and let those involved get on and confront opposition fans.

    They have had weeks of protests/disruptions and in the build up to this game they would have monitored all forums/sites/feeds etc and judged it to be an ever higher risk game as it was the last of the season.

    You know what, if you didn't want them to act in a 'heavy handed' (bless) manner then don't try and break the law!! It ain't rocket science. And if you do (understandably) want to cause bit of grief and disruption accept the consequences!!

    Loads of OTT reaction on this forum at present following yesterday's events!!
    Well tell that to those where excessive force was used. Particularly to those that had issues in the stairwells and other areas of the stadium where they had broken no laws.

    Beat me to it ...absolutely
  • So what is the chain of command that set the blue jackets and police on the Charlton fans? Murray Mire Cahones Everret guy who just retired?
  • iainment said:

    While I agree with nearly all of what has been said about the OTT, chaotic and one sided stewarding and policing I do think that we are adults and so have to accept any reasonable consequences of our actions.

    We all know we're not allowed on the pitch. Yes, allowing the Burnley fans to stroll on while actively preventing Charlton fans doing the same was unfair but life ain't fair.

    We protested and well done to everyone who did get on the pitch but we knew we were breaking the rules
    Wasn't that the point?

    Again I'm not defending the police and stewards uncalled for violence or their incompetence.

    Nor I'm I blaming fans but we did what we did.

    This doesn't justify disproportionate policing/stewarding. The Met in particular have to be seen to be fair and proportionate but yesterday, it seems, they have discriminated against one set of the public when compared to another. That alone merits a form of complaint imo.
    The police always have, and always will, serve the money. And in this instance that's the club. So we pay their wages and we are the ones they see as the "enemy", after all we're only football fans and everyone knows we're scum.
    But my point is, they treated one set of fans differently to the other.
    To be fair they were tasked with keeping the Charlton fans off the pitch. The officers at the North Stand would not have been invited to ignore their 'orders' if Burnley fans decided to enter the pitch in very large numbers.

    Two wrongs don't make a right. They did try to keep the Burnley fans in the South Stand but they failed that is not, automatically, justification to allow the Charlton fans onto the pitch too. It's not as though they were handing out sweets and gave an unfair amount to one set of children at the expense of another set.

    If fans complained to the Police what would the argument be?.... While we were trying to break the law someone else committed a similar crime and the Police refused to step aside to make it easier for us to break the law? The Police have an obligation to prevent crime - all crime. Would we be happy for the Police to allow someone to break into our house and steal our stuff because down the road someone else has had their house burgled?

    I'm sure I will be accused of making a silly comparison and, like Henry, I was appalled at the treatment of some of our fans by the Stewards, but I just think we are going to struggle to prove that the Police should have stepped aside to allow Charlton fans to rush onto the pitch because they'd failed to stop the Burnley fans.
    I agree but think speeding rather than house breaking would have been a better anology.

    And it's the Jimmy Seed Stand : - )
  • Saw and experienced some very good and very poor policing/stewarding yesterday. I was most concerned at how antagonistic some stewards were and it was obvious they were trying to incite trouble from fans. Some of the stuff I had said to me was ridiculous at the South stand car park, to the point where you could tell they were just hoping to get a reaction, so they could wade in.
  • While I agree with nearly all of what has been said about the OTT, chaotic and one sided stewarding and policing I do think that we are adults and so have to accept any reasonable consequences of our actions.

    We all know we're not allowed on the pitch. Yes, allowing the Burnley fans to stroll on while actively preventing Charlton fans doing the same was unfair but life ain't fair.

    We protested and well done to everyone who did get on the pitch but we knew we were breaking the rules
    Wasn't that the point?

    Again I'm not defending the police and stewards uncalled for violence or their incompetence.

    Nor I'm I blaming fans but we did what we did.

    Hallelujah!! What did we expect them to do? Stand back and let that gaggle of 30+ or so in the NWQ get on the pitch and potentially confront the Burnley fans, thus probably causing more disorder? They were hardly going to stand back and let those involved get on and confront opposition fans.

    They have had weeks of protests/disruptions and in the build up to this game they would have monitored all forums/sites/feeds etc and judged it to be an ever higher risk game as it was the last of the season.

    You know what, if you didn't want them to act in a 'heavy handed' (bless) manner then don't try and break the law!! It ain't rocket science. And if you do (understandably) want to cause bit of grief and disruption accept the consequences!!

    Loads of OTT reaction on this forum at present following yesterday's events!!
    Loads of informative reportage on this forum at present following yesterday's events!!
  • edited May 2016

    While I agree with nearly all of what has been said about the OTT, chaotic and one sided stewarding and policing I do think that we are adults and so have to accept any reasonable consequences of our actions.

    We all know we're not allowed on the pitch. Yes, allowing the Burnley fans to stroll on while actively preventing Charlton fans doing the same was unfair but life ain't fair.

    We protested and well done to everyone who did get on the pitch but we knew we were breaking the rules
    Wasn't that the point?

    Again I'm not defending the police and stewards uncalled for violence or their incompetence.

    Nor I'm I blaming fans but we did what we did.

    Totally agree Henry. It was a game, we won admirably and I personally think we should let sleeping dogs lie.

    My only caveat to that is where individual stewards clearly overstepped the line. But clearly they were all under instruction to stop home fans getting on the pitch and common sense doesn't always prevail in the middle of it all. Like the idiot steward chasing a home fan into the crowd of Burnley on the pitch.
  • mart77 said:

    Saw and experienced some very good and very poor policing/stewarding yesterday. I was most concerned at how antagonistic some stewards were and it was obvious they were trying to incite trouble from fans. Some of the stuff I had said to me was ridiculous at the South stand car park, to the point where you could tell they were just hoping to get a reaction, so they could wade in.

    Can you elaborate. ?

  • iainment said:

    While I agree with nearly all of what has been said about the OTT, chaotic and one sided stewarding and policing I do think that we are adults and so have to accept any reasonable consequences of our actions.

    We all know we're not allowed on the pitch. Yes, allowing the Burnley fans to stroll on while actively preventing Charlton fans doing the same was unfair but life ain't fair.

    We protested and well done to everyone who did get on the pitch but we knew we were breaking the rules
    Wasn't that the point?

    Again I'm not defending the police and stewards uncalled for violence or their incompetence.

    Nor I'm I blaming fans but we did what we did.

    This doesn't justify disproportionate policing/stewarding. The Met in particular have to be seen to be fair and proportionate but yesterday, it seems, they have discriminated against one set of the public when compared to another. That alone merits a form of complaint imo.
    The police always have, and always will, serve the money. And in this instance that's the club. So we pay their wages and we are the ones they see as the "enemy", after all we're only football fans and everyone knows we're scum.
    But my point is, they treated one set of fans differently to the other.
    Who the club didn't care about, who pose no ongoing threat. The club organised the policing on the basis that Charlton fans are their enemy. And the police did as told by the money.
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