There will be 4500 sold by the start of the season (under this regime) I reckon. The club will say it is because of relegation - but we know the truth !
If we'd sold none Duchatelet would probably be frantically trying to sell up now to cut his losses. Feels like a wasted opportunity and would have been a hugely effective statement of protest.
If he sells 5k before start of the season he'll probably be content with that and just hang around instructing his CEO to make even further cost cutting measures to keep his stubborn objective of breaking even somehow alive.
No renewals would have completely blown that out of the water and perhaps drummed the message home that he won't achieve that and we as a fanbase won't help him any further towards achieving it.
Not digging out anyone out who has renewed, honestly I'm not, and completely understand why people have renewed as I miss going myself more than anything having boycotted homes since early this season.
But I just feel it has played into his hands somehow and each renewal is an extra incentive for him and his regime to stay and he'll now just further damage the club in making cutbacks etc in terms of staff on and off the pitch all the time he thinks he can prove his warped hypothesis of breaking even regardless of the true long term cost to the club.
"Our ground's too big for us!" will be the chant of the season....
Although there won't be many there to chant it. Having said that, if there is a migration from the upper north to lower north it might actually improve the atmosphere, unless the singers end up split between the two tiers, in which case it will be dire.
From what little I know of how football finances work (they change so often it's hard to keep up) championship TV money has jumped significantly in the past couple years. Nowhere near premier league levels but it makes the jump from league one to champ a lot more significant financially than it was.
As you change leagues your financing dynamic has to shift drastically. In the lower leagues it obviously relies a lot more heavily on fan income.
If fan finances were (I think she said) 33% in the championship and TV revenue is so much lower in League One, I think she might be looking for finances to be more like 50-60% at least in League One... Plucking figures out of the air based on a little guess I've had (I'm sure someone like airman can correct me, and please do!) TV revenue for each club is approx £5million in Champ, and £1 million in League One. Having looked at our turnover for Y/E June 2014 we had turnover of £12.7m.. That would mean that fan revenues would be approximately £4million. TV money is more than fan revenues in this scenario. Now, fan revenues will (even with a fairly decent boycott) probably be the biggest single source of funding...
They need us... Every season ticket not sold is a significantly higher hit to them than it would have been in the championship....
The question then becomes... How do they fill the gap in funding... Selling assets? Funding them themselves? (lol) Who knows...
It is no good bleating on about wanting RD out and then going and renewing your Season ticket. The best way to get rid of Duchatelet is to starve him out. No buying of food or drink, no buying of Club merchandise, no programme, no season ticket and no attendance at home games. I know it is hard but that is what I will be doing next season until the Douchebag and his lapdog have gone.
I'm surprised its that many. They must either watch a different game to the one we see or they all have their heads in the sand. How can anybody commit to suffering more of the same, on & off the pitch, next season.
Unless, of course, the chief WUMmer Colin has bought them all!
No I haven't got my head in the sand and I'm also aware of what I've been watching, But as a loyal supporter I'll be there through thick and thin, it's a way of life, it's in my blood and I couldn't image Saturday afternoons without Charlton Athletic. I hope you enjoy your Saturday's in the future doing your DIY or whatever else you've got planned, And when we get ourselves out of this mess I'll look forward to seeing you come back for the good times.
I think we all accept the bad times when we can see everybody is singing from the same hymn sheet.
People not attending now is not about being a glory boy.
It is no good bleating on about wanting RD out and then going and renewing your Season ticket. The best way to get rid of Duchatelet is to starve him out. No buying of food or drink, no buying of Club merchandise, no programme, no season ticket and no attendance at home games. I know it is hard but that is what I will be doing next season until the Douchebag and his lapdog have gone.
I'm surprised its that many. They must either watch a different game to the one we see or they all have their heads in the sand. How can anybody commit to suffering more of the same, on & off the pitch, next season.
Unless, of course, the chief WUMmer Colin has bought them all!
No I haven't got my head in the sand and I'm also aware of what I've been watching, But as a loyal supporter I'll be there through thick and thin, it's a way of life, it's in my blood and I couldn't image Saturday afternoons without Charlton Athletic. I hope you enjoy your Saturday's in the future doing your DIY or whatever else you've got planned, And when we get ourselves out of this mess I'll look forward to seeing you come back for the good times.
I think we all accept the bad times when we can see everybody is singing from the same hymn sheet.
People not attending now is not about being a glory boy.
Exactly.
I'm sure a lot of these "loyal supporters" attend away games. Just because people choose not line the pockets of the current owner certainly doesn't make them any less of a supporter than people who do.
For some people it is much harder to just stop going. It's something they've always done.
I haven't had a season ticket for a few years due to other commitments. But if I have a free weekend and we are at home I can't imagine doing anything else with my Saturday. I have been to every game I could this year and will probably do the same next year. I still need to get my fix no matter what is going on.
I have volunteered for CARD at every game I have been at. I volunteered for Joe/ spell it out back at the Ipswich game. I certainly want rid of Roland. It goes without saying I stopped buying programmes and food/drink in the ground.
I justify myself by buying a kids ticket and going through the turnstiles at a busy time. This giving him as little money as I can.
I also worry that all of this is geared to getting him out before the start of next season, which if it works is brilliant. But if somehow he is still here next year? What then? The protests will fizzle out as those anti the regime will not be there. Then other fans/the media will just see poor attendance and think fans didn't wanna watch league one football.
Airman there are a number of seats which are indicated as unavailable for sale. There are no seats for sale in East Stand Block A, although 2 seats have been sold in West Lower Block H.
That's a glitch in the set-up - East A is on sale separately from East B and then shown with it too. In the latter case, it's unavailable, but in the former it's on sale - and they've sold 7 seats.
Take your point re the unavailable seats (in the case of Row O that's because they don't exist!), although the staff comps etc should just show as sold seats, not unavailable. Comps will nearly all be in the lower west, as will players comps and could easily amount to a couple of hundred, which is one reason why the lower west will look busier than it really is. Against that, wheelchairs spaces won't show up on the online system.
Frankly all the sales figures in all stands are very poor apart from the lower north.
Bearing in mind that some people always buy after the deadline anyway, they are 50-60 per cent down at this stage IMO.
Out of interest is your estimate against last season or against the last time we were relegated?
What is 'unique' about football is that a hardcore will always attend regardless of the quality of the football / success of the team and no doubt RD is relying on that.
The final number of season tickets sold will hinge on either a change in ownership or some tangible evidence of player and managerial recruitment before August.
Be interesting to see if he club make any concession on the early bird cut off or some other incentive to renew in the immediate weeks. Not looking that way given deadline has now passed but you never know.
My guess is, in the absence of a sale, the next announcement will be about Riga. That won't impact season ticket sales alone however so I'd expect the numbers to drift for a good while.
I did not want to renew mine but my Dad wanted too, so I did in the end. Solely for the reason of spending each Saturday with my dad in the pub and having a few beers. I have protested at every game and will continue to do so.
What if Roland keeps the club for another five years? I'm 34 and gone since I was 4. Its in my blood.
My Dad won't be about forever and spending time with him is too valuable to me to give up. I don't want to look back and regret not spending my Saturday's with him going to matches due to some twat who owns the club.
What will be sad is the amount of passionate people that have not renewed that won't be there to protest next season, it will make their life easier for KM and Roland.
"Our ground's too big for us!" will be the chant of the season....
Although there won't be many there to chant it. Having said that, if there is a migration from the upper north to lower north it might actually improve the atmosphere, unless the singers end up split between the two tiers, in which case it will be dire.
I don't get this point about improved atmosphere. I am no sound expert but as the roof is a long way from the lower north isn't a lot of the sound going to be lost as in an open end, whereas in the upper north it may be kept in.
It will look a lot better on TV when the goal highlights are shown. Football is a product that is sold on the package of the game and the atmosphere. If it looks like nobody is interested in going to the game then the TV viewer is also going to be less interested. Show a game where the home fans are packing out the stand and the TV viewer will also want to be there
It will look a lot better on TV when the goal highlights are shown. Football is a product that is sold on the package of the game and the atmosphere. If it looks like nobody is interested in going to the game then the TV viewer is also going to be less interested. Show a game where the home fans are packing out the stand and the TV viewer will also want to be there
It'll be a shame then, that the most regular views that the TV viewer is likely to have will be the East and West Stands.
Even in the highlights, they mostly show linking play.
Airman there are a number of seats which are indicated as unavailable for sale. There are no seats for sale in East Stand Block A, although 2 seats have been sold in West Lower Block H.
That's a glitch in the set-up - East A is on sale separately from East B and then shown with it too. In the latter case, it's unavailable, but in the former it's on sale - and they've sold 7 seats.
Take your point re the unavailable seats (in the case of Row O that's because they don't exist!), although the staff comps etc should just show as sold seats, not unavailable. Comps will nearly all be in the lower west, as will players comps and could easily amount to a couple of hundred, which is one reason why the lower west will look busier than it really is. Against that, wheelchairs spaces won't show up on the online system.
Frankly all the sales figures in all stands are very poor apart from the lower north.
Bearing in mind that some people always buy after the deadline anyway, they are 50-60 per cent down at this stage IMO.
Out of interest is your estimate against last season or against the last time we were relegated?
What is 'unique' about football is that a hardcore will always attend regardless of the quality of the football / success of the team and no doubt RD is relying on that.
The final number of season tickets sold will hinge on either a change in ownership or some tangible evidence of player and managerial recruitment before August.
Be interesting to see if he club make any concession on the early bird cut off or some other incentive to renew in the immediate weeks. Not looking that way given deadline has now passed but you never know.
My guess is, in the absence of a sale, the next announcement will be about Riga. That won't impact season ticket sales alone however so I'd expect the numbers to drift for a good while.
The difference isn't as big as you might think because we had 9,000 STs in L1, give or take, in 10/11 and 11/12, and reportedly 10,000 this season, which is similar to 09/10 in L1. We had 11,500 in 12/13.
That said, you would expect a drop-off in L1 this time regardless of any boycott.
I'm surprised its that many. They must either watch a different game to the one we see or they all have their heads in the sand. How can anybody commit to suffering more of the same, on & off the pitch, next season.
Unless, of course, the chief WUMmer Colin has bought them all!
No I haven't got my head in the sand and I'm also aware of what I've been watching, But as a loyal supporter I'll be there through thick and thin, it's a way of life, it's in my blood and I couldn't image Saturday afternoons without Charlton Athletic. I hope you enjoy your Saturday's in the future doing your DIY or whatever else you've got planned, And when we get ourselves out of this mess I'll look forward to seeing you come back for the good times.
I've had the same seat in the East Stand since the first day it opened in 1994. I too can't imagine Saturday afternoons without watching Charlton but then I can't imagine watching our great Club sink like a stone under Roland's regime. So I'm going to stay away for the greater good and yeah mate when I do come back, which I will, it will be in the knowledge that the actions of many thousands of us helped in various ways to rid ourselves of Roland and believe me the good times you speak of will not return whilst Roland still owns the Club.
It's not really the number sold, but the revenue generated. Given that 1/3 are the north lower tickets at £175 the revenue will be pitiful. Let's try and figure it out.
Under 11's are £50 everywhere (apart from the family zone where they're free with an adult or £25) and under 18's are £100 everywhere. Let's assume that under 11's & under 18's are 15% of the attendance each
Upper North 317 (70% = 222 adult @£325 = £72k, £7k from kids) total £79k
Lower North 1200 (I'll be generous and assume everyone here is an adult @ £175) total £210k
NWQ 112 (78 adults @£325, 44 kids @ an average of £75 ) total £28k
East 650 (tricky one as there are four pricing zones over eight block (is that Mr "sweat the asset"'s work?) but let's be kind again and assume the average adult is paying the £475 price) (455 adults @£475, 195 kids @ an average of £75) total £230k
Lower West 764 (same assumption as above) (535 adults @£475, 229 kids @ an average of £75) total £271k
Upper West 304 (same assumption as above) (212 adults @£475, 92 kids @£75)total £108k
Total - £943k
That number would be very, very worrying if you were trying to balance the books and remember I've been extremely generous in some of the assumptions ( @Airman Brown will be able to point some of my big mistakes our) - the real number would be much lower I would imagine.
You've not allowed for senior/U21 concessions or VAT. Adults are 52% of the total. Disabled numbers are more than you'd allow for and carers free.
I would guess think on these numbers net season ticket revenue is likely to be about £750k at most - given the bias towards the lower north it could be as low as £600k.
I was told that they had about 500 disabled tickets this season, although whether that's 1000 people (ie 500 disabled + 500 carers) or 500 people (250 disabled + 250 carers). You get £50 off the ticket and the carer ticket is free.
You've not allowed for senior/U21 concessions or VAT. Adults are 52% of the total. Disabled numbers are more than you'd allow for and carers free.
I would guess think on these numbers net season ticket revenue is likely to be about £750k at most - given the bias towards the lower north it could be as low as £600k.
I did not want to renew mine but my Dad wanted too, so I did in the end. Solely for the reason of spending each Saturday with my dad in the pub and having a few beers. I have protested at every game and will continue to do so.
What if Roland keeps the club for another five years? I'm 34 and gone since I was 4. Its in my blood.
My Dad won't be about forever and spending time with him is too valuable to me to give up. I don't want to look back and regret not spending my Saturday's with him going to matches due to some twat who owns the club.
What will be sad is the amount of passionate people that have not renewed that won't be there to protest next season, it will make their life easier for KM and Roland.
This is almost identical to me (even to your age) but I did want to renew. I will always renew.
Complete paradox given I want them out but that's just the way it is for me. I'm not letting this administration drive me out of my club
82 in the family , that should be the biggest worry for them.
Maybe but with hindsight it is to be expected. Children have a much lower tolerance of watching rubbish football, and especially seeing their side lose. My son has had a season ticket for four three years and this season I've struggled to get him to come to two matches and on both occasions it has had to involve a bribe.
I believe there is a sense of "ownership" among season ticket holders in the lower west around where I sit. Many bought VIP 10 year tickets in 1992 before the valley was actually secured. I always felt those seats are mine forever so long as I pay a reasonable 'fee' each year. No one (certainly not idiots like RD) has the right to take them from my family.
I know this doesn't really excuse those of us who have renewed. But I think it is worth remembering that some people may feel that they are actually giving in to RD by NOT renewing!
I did not want to renew mine but my Dad wanted too, so I did in the end. Solely for the reason of spending each Saturday with my dad in the pub and having a few beers. I have protested at every game and will continue to do so.
What if Roland keeps the club for another five years? I'm 34 and gone since I was 4. Its in my blood.
My Dad won't be about forever and spending time with him is too valuable to me to give up. I don't want to look back and regret not spending my Saturday's with him going to matches due to some twat who owns the club.
What will be sad is the amount of passionate people that have not renewed that won't be there to protest next season, it will make their life easier for KM and Roland.
This is almost identical to me (even to your age) but I did want to renew. I will always renew.
Complete paradox given I want them out but that's just the way it is for me. I'm not letting this administration drive me out of my club
I did not want to renew mine but my Dad wanted too, so I did in the end. Solely for the reason of spending each Saturday with my dad in the pub and having a few beers. I have protested at every game and will continue to do so.
What if Roland keeps the club for another five years? I'm 34 and gone since I was 4. Its in my blood.
My Dad won't be about forever and spending time with him is too valuable to me to give up. I don't want to look back and regret not spending my Saturday's with him going to matches due to some twat who owns the club.
What will be sad is the amount of passionate people that have not renewed that won't be there to protest next season, it will make their life easier for KM and Roland.
This is almost identical to me (even to your age) but I did want to renew. I will always renew.
Complete paradox given I want them out but that's just the way it is for me. I'm not letting this administration drive me out of my club
As it stands, it's Roland's Charlton - not yours.
Depends on who you think a football club belongs to really.
Comments
There will be 4500 sold by the start of the season (under this regime) I reckon.
The club will say it is because of relegation - but we know the truth !
Another failure by KM - but she seems unsackable.
If he sells 5k before start of the season he'll probably be content with that and just hang around instructing his CEO to make even further cost cutting measures to keep his stubborn objective of breaking even somehow alive.
No renewals would have completely blown that out of the water and perhaps drummed the message home that he won't achieve that and we as a fanbase won't help him any further towards achieving it.
Not digging out anyone out who has renewed, honestly I'm not, and completely understand why people have renewed as I miss going myself more than anything having boycotted homes since early this season.
But I just feel it has played into his hands somehow and each renewal is an extra incentive for him and his regime to stay and he'll now just further damage the club in making cutbacks etc in terms of staff on and off the pitch all the time he thinks he can prove his warped hypothesis of breaking even regardless of the true long term cost to the club.
As you change leagues your financing dynamic has to shift drastically. In the lower leagues it obviously relies a lot more heavily on fan income.
If fan finances were (I think she said) 33% in the championship and TV revenue is so much lower in League One, I think she might be looking for finances to be more like 50-60% at least in League One... Plucking figures out of the air based on a little guess I've had (I'm sure someone like airman can correct me, and please do!) TV revenue for each club is approx £5million in Champ, and £1 million in League One. Having looked at our turnover for Y/E June 2014 we had turnover of £12.7m.. That would mean that fan revenues would be approximately £4million. TV money is more than fan revenues in this scenario. Now, fan revenues will (even with a fairly decent boycott) probably be the biggest single source of funding...
They need us... Every season ticket not sold is a significantly higher hit to them than it would have been in the championship....
The question then becomes... How do they fill the gap in funding... Selling assets? Funding them themselves? (lol) Who knows...
I know it is hard but that is what I will be doing next season until the Douchebag and his lapdog have gone.
People not attending now is not about being a glory boy.
I'm sure a lot of these "loyal supporters" attend away games. Just because people choose not line the pockets of the current owner certainly doesn't make them any less of a supporter than people who do.
I haven't had a season ticket for a few years due to other commitments. But if I have a free weekend and we are at home I can't imagine doing anything else with my Saturday. I have been to every game I could this year and will probably do the same next year. I still need to get my fix no matter what is going on.
I have volunteered for CARD at every game I have been at. I volunteered for Joe/ spell it out back at the Ipswich game. I certainly want rid of Roland. It goes without saying I stopped buying programmes and food/drink in the ground.
I justify myself by buying a kids ticket and going through the turnstiles at a busy time. This giving him as little money as I can.
What is 'unique' about football is that a hardcore will always attend regardless of the quality of the football / success of the team and no doubt RD is relying on that.
The final number of season tickets sold will hinge on either a change in ownership or some tangible evidence of player and managerial recruitment before August.
Be interesting to see if he club make any concession on the early bird cut off or some other incentive to renew in the immediate weeks. Not looking that way given deadline has now passed but you never know.
My guess is, in the absence of a sale, the next announcement will be about Riga. That won't impact season ticket sales alone however so I'd expect the numbers to drift for a good while.
What if Roland keeps the club for another five years? I'm 34 and gone since I was 4. Its in my blood.
My Dad won't be about forever and spending time with him is too valuable to me to give up. I don't want to look back and regret not spending my Saturday's with him going to matches due to some twat who owns the club.
What will be sad is the amount of passionate people that have not renewed that won't be there to protest next season, it will make their life easier for KM and Roland.
Even in the highlights, they mostly show linking play.
That said, you would expect a drop-off in L1 this time regardless of any boycott.
Under 11's are £50 everywhere (apart from the family zone where they're free with an adult or £25) and under 18's are £100 everywhere. Let's assume that under 11's & under 18's are 15% of the attendance each
Upper North 317 (70% = 222 adult @£325 = £72k, £7k from kids) total £79k
Lower North 1200 (I'll be generous and assume everyone here is an adult @ £175) total £210k
Family 82 (57 adults @£275, 12 u18 &£100, 12 u11 @£0) total £17k
NWQ 112 (78 adults @£325, 44 kids @ an average of £75 ) total £28k
East 650 (tricky one as there are four pricing zones over eight block (is that Mr "sweat the asset"'s work?) but let's be kind again and assume the average adult is paying the £475 price) (455 adults @£475, 195 kids @ an average of £75) total £230k
Lower West 764 (same assumption as above) (535 adults @£475, 229 kids @ an average of £75) total £271k
Upper West 304 (same assumption as above) (212 adults @£475, 92 kids @£75) total £108k
Total - £943k
That number would be very, very worrying if you were trying to balance the books and remember I've been extremely generous in some of the assumptions ( @Airman Brown will be able to point some of my big mistakes our) - the real number would be much lower I would imagine.
I would guess think on these numbers net season ticket revenue is likely to be about £750k at most - given the bias towards the lower north it could be as low as £600k.
Come the start of the next season it'll be interesting how many "crack" even if RD and KM are still there
For a business running at an operating loss of about £4.4m already these season ticket sales numbers are absolutely catastrophic.
As I said, forget about the numbers sold - they can spin those - focus on the revenue earned which is lower than I ever imagined it would be.
Complete paradox given I want them out but that's just the way it is for me. I'm not letting this administration drive me out of my club
I know this doesn't really excuse those of us who have renewed. But I think it is worth remembering that some people may feel that they are actually giving in to RD by NOT renewing!