On the basis that you are genuine, and I have major reservations about that, I'll try and reply.
The thread is named "professionalise CARD". Well the fact is that we aren't professionals. We are people with Jobs/Social Lives/Families/Partners to balance and we do this in our free time.
With that in mind, I don't believe that our organisation and professionalism is that bad! We seem to be one step ahead of a club that has numerous full time staff.
Full scale meetings lead to things being leaked and we lose our advantage over the club. If they know what's coming they can come up with contingency plans. The secrecy means that a) things come as a surprise and b) they have to plan for things that may not occur. While I understand that people can be put out by secrecy it is my honest opinion that this is the best way to get to the club.
Our DM feature is always open on twitter, we have an open E-Mail address and suggestions can be posted on a multitude of Charlton Forums - not just this one. All of these are discussed and then we go with our gut and what we believe in. If we get it wrong, we get it wrong - but we're trying our best.
Genuinely offended about my sincerity. Next match I attend I will happily meet any of you. Agree on preofessiinal front - I have a business and family (5 kids) so not easy to attend as much as wanted in recent times. Will DM Card on Twitter. Request - when done that can CARD pls message this forum to stop the abuse. It is offensive and should not be wanted among us (although amusing in other situations - double standards I know).
Forgive if I've missed this, but can we get a proper full meeting for CARD and its supporters together to discuss ALL possibilities, and I mean All. I disagree with some but that doesn't mean they aren't valid. We all have different areas we can input from. I'm not rich but I do advise wealthy people and businesses on certain areas of finance. I'm concerned this is becoming a forum to ensure mutual destruction without the planning and forethought that we are ironically asking from CAFC. If we can do it better then let's do that. Let's get some sensible plans and advise the fans of our plans and how they will work / be better than the current regime. But I can't stress enough that nobody with CAFC at their heart should be ridiculed or abused. The end goal for al is the same. - a successful and vibrant Charlton, we just disagree on how to get there.
I'll meet you by the Hungry Horse at 7pm! I'll have a Carnation in my lapel, a black and white scarf, and I'll be carrying my trusty Filofax full of ideas.
Forgive if I've missed this, but can we get a proper full meeting for CARD and its supporters together to discuss ALL possibilities, and I mean All. I disagree with some but that doesn't mean they aren't valid. We all have different areas we can input from. I'm not rich but I do advise wealthy people and businesses on certain areas of finance. I'm concerned this is becoming a forum to ensure mutual destruction without the planning and forethought that we are ironically asking from CAFC. If we can do it better then let's do that. Let's get some sensible plans and advise the fans of our plans and how they will work / be better than the current regime. But I can't stress enough that nobody with CAFC at their heart should be ridiculed or abused. The end goal for al is the same. - a successful and vibrant Charlton, we just disagree on how to get there.
I'll meet you by the Hungry Horse at 7pm! I'll have a Carnation in my lapel, a black and white scarf, and I'll be carrying my trusty Filofax full of ideas.
Genuinely offended about my sincerity. Next match I attend I will happily meet any of you. Agree on preofessiinal front - I have a business and family (5 kids) so not easy to attend as much as wanted in recent times. Will DM Card on Twitter. Request - when done that can CARD pls message this forum to stop the abuse. It is offensive and should not be wanted among us (although amusing in other situations - double standards I know).
Why do we need to professionalise CARD? That will simply turn it towards being the more formalised organisation that is CAST. We don't need two organisations trying to do the same.
CARD is meant to be informal, direct and a means of connecting protesting groups of fans together to ensure the voice of reason is heard amid the deafening silence at The Valley and Sparrows Lane. CAST is a formalised supporters trust with a constitution and elected officers which has the remit of entering into constructive dialogue with the club to give fans their say.
We need both of the above - although right now given the cloth-eared management of the club, CAST won't be able to engage in any meaningful dialogue due to CAFC's ostrich-like stance.
Leave things as they are. CARD are doing a flipping good job right now and the pressure is having its effects - which in reality will not achieve their aim this season. There is no need to panic - just to keep on protesting.
As has been said before, "They picked the wrong club".
Genuinely offended about my sincerity. Next match I attend I will happily meet any of you. Agree on preofessiinal front - I have a business and family (5 kids) so not easy to attend as much as wanted in recent times. Will DM Card on Twitter. Request - when done that can CARD pls message this forum to stop the abuse. It is offensive and should not be wanted among us (although amusing in other situations - double standards I know).
Genuinely offended about my sincerity. Next match I attend I will happily meet any of you. Agree on preofessiinal front - I have a business and family (5 kids) so not easy to attend as much as wanted in recent times. Will DM Card on Twitter. Request - when done that can CARD pls message this forum to stop the abuse. It is offensive and should not be wanted among us (although amusing in other situations - double standards I know).
We should not alienate supporters who have different views or are not yet convinced. We must keep up the logical arguments. The object of CARD is in the name! I fully support that and spend time trying to convince those not fully with the same aims. However alienating them and insulting them is not the way forward. I have no idea whether Cambridge is genuine or not but we should either spend time convincing (ideally) or ignoring - certainly not insulting. When we win this war we want every Charlton fan back and to be united in how to make the club prosper. As for the heading of the thread, my personal opinion is that CARD have been incredibly professional. Far more than the club.
But I don't think I'm making myself very clear. Goal 1 - hurt RD financially. Stage 5 he wants / has to sell. I worried we hurt the club so much he either isn't bothered about selling to regain £1. Or nobody wants us as a football club. Or he sells the ground as that's his best way out. So I agree with stage 5, but worried stages 2 - 3 mean no more Charlton! If we are right and we struggle next season the risk is pretty high or what none of us want. I think we should reassess that risk, and maybe act differently as a result. We have to ensure he has enough to want to sell and enough for a new buyer to want the club. I liked the idea of signing agreement on purchase of season tickets for example. That sort of idea works very well for a new owner.
There have been numerous posts on what form of boycotting would be most effective. What I highlighted above I may have missed to be honest but it is a good idea. I have floated my own ideas regarding boycotting on here and directly to CAST but without much response. Roland will give up eventually but only if there is a committed boycott. Delaying paying is feeble and the minimal action of the faint hearted (sorry).
I think that we've learnt from the noon announcements so far is that you can't please everyone. My major concerns about meeting to discuss how to protest would be:
1.) Nothing would ever be agreed. 2.) It would get leaked to the club.
The protests so far have been well thought out and successful in their immediate aims (to get as much coverage as possible). Unconfirmed rumours have suggested RD is re-evaluating whether Charlton is a viable asset. Who knows what the future holds.
If you're not happy with that, CARD are very accessible and have asked for people to message them with ideas. Equally, you could set up your own protests that you think will help. That's what 20 others did when they went to Belgium.
Forgive if I've missed this, but can we get a proper full meeting for CARDurged upits supporters together to discuss ALL possibilities, and I mean All. I disagree with some but that doesn't mean they aren't valid. We all have different areas we can input from. I'm not rich but I do advise wealthy people and businesses on certain areas of finance. I'm concerned this is becoming a forum to ensure mutual destruction without the planning and forethought that we are ironically asking from CAFC. If we can do it better then let's do that. Let's get some sensible plans and advise the fans of our plans and how they will work / be better than the current regime. But I can't stress enough that nobody with CAFC at their heart should be ridiculed or abused. The end goal for al is the same. - a successful and vibrant Charlton, we just disagree on how to get there.
What you have not posted is the fact the Trust organised a public meeting 14 months ago. On a freezing night 400+ turned up. All views were listened to, pro or anti RD (have a watch its on YouTube)
At the end of the meeting a vote was taken and it was decided the Trust would attempt more dialogue with the club despite numerous previous a attempts were ignored by the club.
And how did the club respond
NOTHING NOTHING NOTHING
So too come on here and suggest we discus all options, your are at least 3 months too late
Another poster coming out of nowhere talking about "mutually assured destruction". A more conspiracy minded person would think these were threats coming from the upper management at the valley...
Come on guys lets not start fighting among ourselves, that is exactly what the club are hoping will happen. As I have posted on here before, EVERY opposition fan I have spoken to whilst handing out various items as part of the protest have not only been supportive of what we are doing but have been more than impressed by the professionalism being shown in what we are trying to do and the way we are going about it. I for one am proud of our actions and think all the ideas so far have been good and show imagination the only downside being that all the positive energy could be working FOR the club if only they would talk to us and listen to ideas but by doing nothing we would only be speeding up the possible death of the club.
Not sure if Cambridge is 'real' or not but giving him the benefit of the doubt, he has a view, some or all of us may not like it or share it but he has his view and that doesn't make him any less of a Charlton 'customer' than anyone else, much the same as those who renew their season ticket or don't renew, doesn't make one side more a fan than the other. We need to as much as possible stick together regardless of some differences.
You can't please all of the people all of the time, whether that's CARD, CAST, CAFC or whomever.
One of C's posts said he doesn't see the protests as achieving what CARD want. You could argue that is correct as neither a change of direction nor a change of owner has happened to any meaningful extent, but then I don't think realistically that was expected at this stage of the proceedings.
By the nature of CARD an open meeting would be difficult as a large part of the actions are 'surprise' tactics so discussing in a room of 500 people or whatever would be self defeating.
I'd like to understand next steps 'if' by the start of next season things remain the same but appreciate, for reasons above, that can't be published although I am sure they are being considered.
For instance, if RD digs his heels in, season ticket sales (and general gate receipts) are low what will he do, I suspect he will simply cut the budgets further and CAFC will have a much lower operating budget to work under and we will see an even worse season next year in league one, if indeed that is possible. Thats one of my concerns, we are doing what we are doing to force change and/or change of ownership, however if that isn't the result then...........
Come on guys lets not start fighting among ourselves, that is exactly what the club are hoping will happen. As I have posted on here before, EVERY opposition fan I have spoken to whilst handing out various items as part of the protest have not only been supportive of what we are doing but have been more than impressed by the professionalism being shown in what we are trying to do and the way we are going about it. I for one am proud of our actions and think all the ideas so far have been good and show imagination the only downside being that all the positive energy could be working FOR the club if only they would talk to us and listen to ideas but by doing nothing we would only be speeding up the possible death of the club.
But the point is that it isn't fighting among ourselves is it? If it was I would completely agree with you.
Just about anybody on here with a contrary view to CARD has received civil responses if they put forward honest views and are genuine fans.
The problem is when there is a pathetic and dishonest campaign, presumably by the club to undermine the very professional campaign by CARD. If we could prove this, the media would have a field day i am sure.
Now if only we could get the 'work together" message to the few fans who hate the regime but bizarrely seem to be focused on attacking CL and CARD for some reason.
Comments
On the basis that you are genuine, and I have major reservations about that, I'll try and reply.
The thread is named "professionalise CARD". Well the fact is that we aren't professionals. We are people with Jobs/Social Lives/Families/Partners to balance and we do this in our free time.
With that in mind, I don't believe that our organisation and professionalism is that bad! We seem to be one step ahead of a club that has numerous full time staff.
Full scale meetings lead to things being leaked and we lose our advantage over the club. If they know what's coming they can come up with contingency plans. The secrecy means that a) things come as a surprise and b) they have to plan for things that may not occur. While I understand that people can be put out by secrecy it is my honest opinion that this is the best way to get to the club.
Our DM feature is always open on twitter, we have an open E-Mail address and suggestions can be posted on a multitude of Charlton Forums - not just this one. All of these are discussed and then we go with our gut and what we believe in. If we get it wrong, we get it wrong - but we're trying our best.
Are you around before the Derby game?
I would be happy to meet.
CARD is meant to be informal, direct and a means of connecting protesting groups of fans together to ensure the voice of reason is heard amid the deafening silence at The Valley and Sparrows Lane.
CAST is a formalised supporters trust with a constitution and elected officers which has the remit of entering into constructive dialogue with the club to give fans their say.
We need both of the above - although right now given the cloth-eared management of the club, CAST won't be able to engage in any meaningful dialogue due to CAFC's ostrich-like stance.
Leave things as they are. CARD are doing a flipping good job right now and the pressure is having its effects - which in reality will not achieve their aim this season. There is no need to panic - just to keep on protesting.
As has been said before, "They picked the wrong club".
Although a lot of amatuer outfits are better run
The object of CARD is in the name! I fully support that and spend time trying to convince those not fully with the same aims. However alienating them and insulting them is not the way forward.
I have no idea whether Cambridge is genuine or not but we should either spend time convincing (ideally) or ignoring - certainly not insulting.
When we win this war we want every Charlton fan back and to be united in how to make the club prosper.
As for the heading of the thread, my personal opinion is that CARD have been incredibly professional. Far more than the club.
1.) Nothing would ever be agreed.
2.) It would get leaked to the club.
The protests so far have been well thought out and successful in their immediate aims (to get as much coverage as possible). Unconfirmed rumours have suggested RD is re-evaluating whether Charlton is a viable asset. Who knows what the future holds.
If you're not happy with that, CARD are very accessible and have asked for people to message them with ideas. Equally, you could set up your own protests that you think will help. That's what 20 others did when they went to Belgium.
At the end of the meeting a vote was taken and it was decided the Trust would attempt more dialogue with the club despite numerous previous a attempts were ignored by the club.
And how did the club respond
NOTHING
NOTHING
NOTHING
So too come on here and suggest we discus all options, your are at least 3 months too late
Blimey! The fella in the red polo shirt must be a big lad.
You can't please all of the people all of the time, whether that's CARD, CAST, CAFC or whomever.
One of C's posts said he doesn't see the protests as achieving what CARD want. You could argue that is correct as neither a change of direction nor a change of owner has happened to any meaningful extent, but then I don't think realistically that was expected at this stage of the proceedings.
By the nature of CARD an open meeting would be difficult as a large part of the actions are 'surprise' tactics so discussing in a room of 500 people or whatever would be self defeating.
I'd like to understand next steps 'if' by the start of next season things remain the same but appreciate, for reasons above, that can't be published although I am sure they are being considered.
For instance, if RD digs his heels in, season ticket sales (and general gate receipts) are low what will he do, I suspect he will simply cut the budgets further and CAFC will have a much lower operating budget to work under and we will see an even worse season next year in league one, if indeed that is possible. Thats one of my concerns, we are doing what we are doing to force change and/or change of ownership, however if that isn't the result then...........
Just about anybody on here with a contrary view to CARD has received civil responses if they put forward honest views and are genuine fans.
The problem is when there is a pathetic and dishonest campaign, presumably by the club to undermine the very professional campaign by CARD. If we could prove this, the media would have a field day i am sure.
Now if only we could get the 'work together" message to the few fans who hate the regime but bizarrely seem to be focused on attacking CL and CARD for some reason.