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Letter to the club, challenging them to respond to CARD's argument as to why we shouldn't renew.

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Comments

  • A good letter and an good opportunity for the club to back up their words with actions and demonstrate they are willing to engage with supporters when sensible questions are asked.
  • She'll probably look down her nose at your letter and say she doesn't have to explain herself to anyone and we are all peasants.

    She must have good eyesight to look all the way down that nose
  • Playing Devil's Advocate:
    They can reply with something like......

    Who are "CARD" ?
    Who are they to say, organise and disrupt games at the Valley ?
    Who do they represent ?
    Who knows if Ms Meire has been successful in her job ?
    Who knows if the Sparrows Lane project with be viable ?


    You know which side of the fence I'm on, but I feel that unless we are open and HONEST about all WE do, we will never get honesty from "Them".

    Not entirely sure what the thrust of this posting is really about but as it is entitled Playing Devil's Advocate I assume that it attempts to take a hard-line look at the situation from the senior management side of the fence?
    The posting deflects attention a bit from the opening post of the thread which is a very fine letter indeed but this demands some response IMO but why play Devil's advocate anyway - what is the point?
    .
    First 3 questions are somewhat irrelevant, CARD exists and the Club have to deal with it (or they can just grin and bear it which appears to be Katrien Meire's solution)

    CARD has shown itself to be an efficient and effective force in trying to shape the future direction of the Club though openly legal protest. Some of those involved were those who fought through The Valley Party and VOTV to get Charlton back to The Valley and succeeded against seemingly insurmountable odds. There would be no football at The Valley and possibly no club had that campaign not succeeded. Ignore history at your peril but of course Katrien Meire is an adapt at this and did ignore the history of the club and attachment of the fans resulting in her ill-judged 2% claim of those who were dissatisfied with the regime.

    Question 4: Who knows if Ms Meire has been successful in her job ?
    I think 2 years in to her CEO role it is legitimate to make a judgement isn't it? The evidence is out there for all to see and many will say that she has been a spectacular failure. There is a whole thread somewhere else on CL which lists a litany of errors, ill-thought out comments and mishandling of management issues (a video too I believe). Just because RD keeps her on doesn't mean that she is successful - we all know that in any other sphere of business she would be gone but to remove her smacks of failure and Roland D evidently 'doesn't do failure.'

    Question 5 Who knows if the Sparrows Lane project (will be) viable ?
    Ok, I don't know - but I would very much hope that the club looked at it with due diligence re viability. Hope also that they didn't look at in isolation at the expense of the bread-and-butter of the business which should be competing in the Championship with an ambition to challenge for a Premiership spot as the Club has done before (History again - this time recent).
    However, if Sparrows Lane is simply part of the player farm infrastructure being put into place then its success is dependent upon a number of other factors including IMO investing also in the first team to consolidate in the Championship whilst Sparrows Lane is developing.
    Katrien Meire does not appear to understand how the relationship between the various youth/academy teams and the first team works other than the first team being a vehicle for showcasing players destined for the Prem (but good luck with that one if you find yourself in League 1)
    Katrien Meire appears belatedly last year (18 months into her CEO) to recognise the danger of first team failure but once again seems to blame the fans for something that the senior figures at the Club should have been addressing and still then had time to when she said in Ireland: quote 'Now they (the fans) tell us we should have spent money on the first team'

    The reason I asked is because I'm sure that they would be asking the questions.
    Why would we listen to......blah, blah, blah.
    I don't want to be arguementive at all, just that I've been a lot of grief.
    Just getting fed up with "Them" and IMHO, some of "Us" being so secretive.

    Got something planned ?

    "Let us all in on the news........."

    Capital Radio, The Clash, 1977.
  • Let's be honest, there is no point whatsoever in writing to this hopeless woman. You might just as well write to my old Granny, long since passed. Only one person is worth approaching, and that wierd man has not a clue about running a professional football Club. In a conversation with a friend today we decided that we will have to emulate the actions of Standard liege ' customers '. Sadly that will mean going to Belgium and getting aggressive towards Roland, using tactics that we will hate. If we are not prepared to do that, we will have to just wait and see how bad things can become.
  • Protests to date have been excellent and eye catching. Great to see all the media coverage they have attracted. However, now things need to move beyond disruption to gain attention. This may be stating the obvious, and may already be happening, but CARD now really need to line up the alternative owner. An individual or consortium who can publicly provide an "out" for Roland. I'm sure that Airman and others will have contacts with wealthy Charlton fans/ or someone who is interested in taking a punt on a soon to be League 1 London team.
  • All these emails from the club saying they are "working hard" to rectify the situation. What is it exactly they are "working hard" on? Making derogatory statements?

    There is no evidence of working on anything to make the situation better, let alone working hard. Poor old flaggy seems to be the only one working hard.
  • A good letter and an good opportunity for the club to back up their words with actions and demonstrate they are willing to engage with supporters when sensible questions are asked.

    I think they showed that they regard meaningful communication with fans as something to tell the media they are doing rather than actually doing it.
  • mogodon said:

    A good letter and an good opportunity for the club to back up their words with actions and demonstrate they are willing to engage with supporters when sensible questions are asked.

    I think they showed that they regard meaningful communication with fans as something to tell the media they are doing rather than actually doing it.
    Disinformation ...politicians are great at it and our Roland still has aims to be one.

    It's also a last refuge when you are losing ...hence Daisy, Tony no-cojones and Sycophant Mandy wholeheartedly endorsing such an approach.
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  • Playing Devil's Advocate:
    They can reply with something like......

    Who are "CARD" ?
    Who are they to say, organise and disrupt games at the Valley ?
    Who do they represent ?
    Who knows if Ms Meire has been successful in her job ?
    Who knows if the Sparrows Lane project with be viable ?


    The reason I asked is because I'm sure that they would be asking the questions.
    Why would we listen to......blah, blah, blah.
    I don't want to be arguementive at all, just that I've been a lot of grief.
    Just getting fed up with "Them" and IMHO, some of "Us" being so secretive.

    Got something planned ?

    "Let us all in on the news........."

    Capital Radio, The Clash, 1977.
    I still don't get this posting. First 3 questions have nothing to do with the other two and why would the Club be asking these first three questions anyway as you seem to imply. We are beyond that. If the senior management at the club don't take CARD seriously then they do so at their peril as has clearly been demonstrated.

    Also, and surely, the club would not be asking itself the last two questions - it doesn't make any sense but I have tried to address these anyway in my previous posting.

    The working nature of CARD has been explained by Davo55 in an earlier post. Not quite sure what you are looking for.
    Yes, there is a polarisation between those who wish to see change and a change of ownership at that and those at the senior management level at the club who appear to wish to carry on despite the damage which has been inflicted on the 'business' side of the club and its relationship with its own fan base not to mention the very real threat (through catastrophic appointment of an inexperienced 'interim' manager at a most crucial time of the season) of relegation to League 1.
    Oh, I forgot, there is also Richard Murray's standpoint or rather sitting point - sit on the fence - say nothing - and hope you can still be around for the next owner - what a betrayal of previous endeavour.

    So, the whole original posting appears to boil down to you being fed-up with the 'being so secretive' thing.
    Why dress this up in such an odd way?

  • edited April 2016
    mogodon said:

    A good letter and an good opportunity for the club to back up their words with actions and demonstrate they are willing to engage with supporters when sensible questions are asked.

    I think they showed that they regard meaningful communication with fans as something to tell the media they are doing rather than actually doing it.
    You may be right, but they are, at least, saying they want to communicate better. Well this letter sets out exactly what the fans want to know and none of the requests are unreasonable. If they can't give a proper response to this they may never.
  • All these emails from the club saying they are "working hard" to rectify the situation. What is it exactly they are "working hard" on? Making derogatory statements?

    There is no evidence of working on anything to make the situation better, let alone working hard. Poor old flaggy seems to be the only one working hard.

    I asked that question and got told this...........

    There are many different ways in which we are trying to improve things. At the highest level one of the key priorities is getting a new Chief Scout who can help address the issues around recruitment - the process for that hire has continued apace this week. We will also shortly see Phase 1 complete of the new £12m training ground complex.

    Then at the other end of the spectrum are other things are addressing specific concerns, like the request to have team sheets on the big screen rather than the live match feed. This is something we have changed and debuted in the match against Birmingham City at the weekend. We also know the Target 20K group are going to come to us with a request about replacing the Fan Sofa, which we know had been a point of much debate. But these changes come about through constructive engagement, something which we need to do more of.
  • T.C.E said:

    All these emails from the club saying they are "working hard" to rectify the situation. What is it exactly they are "working hard" on? Making derogatory statements?

    There is no evidence of working on anything to make the situation better, let alone working hard. Poor old flaggy seems to be the only one working hard.

    I asked that question and got told this...........

    There are many different ways in which we are trying to improve things. At the highest level one of the key priorities is getting a new Chief Scout who can help address the issues around recruitment - the process for that hire has continued apace this week. We will also shortly see Phase 1 complete of the new £12m training ground complex.

    Then at the other end of the spectrum are other things are addressing specific concerns, like the request to have team sheets on the big screen rather than the live match feed. This is something we have changed and debuted in the match against Birmingham City at the weekend. We also know the Target 20K group are going to come to us with a request about replacing the Fan Sofa, which we know had been a point of much debate. But these changes come about through constructive engagement, something which we need to do more of.
    All fair points.
  • A guy who sits behind me in the East Stand (a season ticket holder for around 40 years ) got the same sort of reply as @Trickreed - in effect, a "sorry you feel like that" response (carefully avoiding the word "sorry"), waving him off and reiterating that the club is not for sale. All very sad.

    Once the paucity of season ticket renewals becomes apparent after the expiration of the 'early bird' deadline (doubtless extended beyond 16 April), a few poor devils in the ticket office will probably be given the thankless task of contacting current season ticket holders to try and drum up a few more sales. Talk about an exercise in futility, especially in circumstances where Duchâtelet and Meire have no intention whatsoever of acting upon 'customer' feedback.
  • Davo55 said:

    T.C.E said:

    All these emails from the club saying they are "working hard" to rectify the situation. What is it exactly they are "working hard" on? Making derogatory statements?

    There is no evidence of working on anything to make the situation better, let alone working hard. Poor old flaggy seems to be the only one working hard.

    I asked that question and got told this...........

    There are many different ways in which we are trying to improve things. At the highest level one of the key priorities is getting a new Chief Scout who can help address the issues around recruitment - the process for that hire has continued apace this week. We will also shortly see Phase 1 complete of the new £12m training ground complex.

    Then at the other end of the spectrum are other things are addressing specific concerns, like the request to have team sheets on the big screen rather than the live match feed. This is something we have changed and debuted in the match against Birmingham City at the weekend. We also know the Target 20K group are going to come to us with a request about replacing the Fan Sofa, which we know had been a point of much debate. But these changes come about through constructive engagement, something which we need to do more of.
    All fair points.
    But not enough, is it? It's like having your house falling down and the builder comes and paints the front door. It doesn't hurt but it hardly scratches the surface of what's wrong.
    Most of this stuff should have been done long ago, but since they said they are going to start doing things differently they have started to show signs they will do so. If they are going to implement all the changes that need to happen they won't be able to do it overnight.

    I don't have a crystal ball so I can't tell you if these are the beginnings of genuine change or if they are just a few minor steps to try and placate the rabble long enough to start the whole merry-go-round turning again at the start of next season. I do know though, that we can't just slam the club when they do things wrong, we also need to give the credit that is due when they do things right, even if that has to be tempered with an acknowledgement that it has taken too long to get around to making some of the changes.
  • Davo55 said:

    T.C.E said:

    All these emails from the club saying they are "working hard" to rectify the situation. What is it exactly they are "working hard" on? Making derogatory statements?

    There is no evidence of working on anything to make the situation better, let alone working hard. Poor old flaggy seems to be the only one working hard.

    I asked that question and got told this...........

    There are many different ways in which we are trying to improve things. At the highest level one of the key priorities is getting a new Chief Scout who can help address the issues around recruitment - the process for that hire has continued apace this week. We will also shortly see Phase 1 complete of the new £12m training ground complex.

    Then at the other end of the spectrum are other things are addressing specific concerns, like the request to have team sheets on the big screen rather than the live match feed. This is something we have changed and debuted in the match against Birmingham City at the weekend. We also know the Target 20K group are going to come to us with a request about replacing the Fan Sofa, which we know had been a point of much debate. But these changes come about through constructive engagement, something which we need to do more of.
    All fair points.
    But not enough, is it? It's like having your house falling down and the builder comes and paints the front door. It doesn't hurt but it hardly scratches the surface of what's wrong.
    Exactly ...none of the responses address the fact that we are staring relegation in the face, that our CEO has singularly failed to be shown to have been successful in any aspect of her role, that she surrounds herself with staff who do not argue with her (because she has the ear of the owner), that our owner has refused to compromise his approach despite two years of evidence that he has got it wrong, that ...Ohhhh it's all been said many times ad infinitum ...you all know the story.
  • "....replacing the fans sofa......"! With what?
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  • Davo55 said:

    T.C.E said:

    All these emails from the club saying they are "working hard" to rectify the situation. What is it exactly they are "working hard" on? Making derogatory statements?

    There is no evidence of working on anything to make the situation better, let alone working hard. Poor old flaggy seems to be the only one working hard.

    I asked that question and got told this...........

    There are many different ways in which we are trying to improve things. At the highest level one of the key priorities is getting a new Chief Scout who can help address the issues around recruitment - the process for that hire has continued apace this week. We will also shortly see Phase 1 complete of the new £12m training ground complex.

    Then at the other end of the spectrum are other things are addressing specific concerns, like the request to have team sheets on the big screen rather than the live match feed. This is something we have changed and debuted in the match against Birmingham City at the weekend. We also know the Target 20K group are going to come to us with a request about replacing the Fan Sofa, which we know had been a point of much debate. But these changes come about through constructive engagement, something which we need to do more of.
    All fair points.
    But not enough, is it? It's like having your house falling down and the builder comes and paints the front door. It doesn't hurt but it hardly scratches the surface of what's wrong.
    Most of this stuff should have been done long ago, but since they said they are going to start doing things differently they have started to show signs they will do so. If they are going to implement all the changes that need to happen they won't be able to do it overnight.

    I don't have a crystal ball so I can't tell you if these are the beginnings of genuine change or if they are just a few minor steps to try and placate the rabble long enough to start the whole merry-go-round turning again at the start of next season. I do know though, that we can't just slam the club when they do things wrong, we also need to give the credit that is due when they do things right, even if that has to be tempered with an acknowledgement that it has taken too long to get around to making some of the changes.
    Partly agree, on the credit where t's due point, but still nowhere near enough. There should be, as an absolute minimum:

    1. An open and comprehensive acknowledgement of all the things that are wrong with the club
    2. A promise that these will all be addressed
    3. A forward plan setting out the actions and the timeline for each
    4. Regular report backs on actions taken and next steps
    5. All accompanied by real signs of engagement - meeting with the Trust, setting up the long promised and still undelivered strategy group, full responses rather than cut and paste platitudes
    6. Evidence that the management of the club, the coaching set up and recruitment strategy have ALL changed.
  • T.C.E said:

    All these emails from the club saying they are "working hard" to rectify the situation. What is it exactly they are "working hard" on? Making derogatory statements?

    There is no evidence of working on anything to make the situation better, let alone working hard. Poor old flaggy seems to be the only one working hard.

    I asked that question and got told this...........

    There are many different ways in which we are trying to improve things. At the highest level one of the key priorities is getting a new Chief Scout who can help address the issues around recruitment - the process for that hire has continued apace this week. We will also shortly see Phase 1 complete of the new £12m training ground complex.

    Then at the other end of the spectrum are other things are addressing specific concerns, like the request to have team sheets on the big screen rather than the live match feed. This is something we have changed and debuted in the match against Birmingham City at the weekend. We also know the Target 20K group are going to come to us with a request about replacing the Fan Sofa, which we know had been a point of much debate. But these changes come about through constructive engagement, something which we need to do more of.
    My response to that was, barring the training ground to CAT 1 from where I'm sitting none those subjects needed addressing before they were intereferred with. And on the subject of constructive engagement, was the latest club statement considered " constructive"
  • For sure constructive.

    All you need to do is remove the 'con' and replace with the first two letters of our illustrious visionary saviour's last name and you have it in the bag.

    Roland , no 'con', Destructive comments.
  • Better communication with the fans? The only recent major press releases have been Roland's incredible rant and the joint statement with the Met, trying to associate CARD protests with minor acts of unassociated criminology to undermine the protests.

    They have my ticket purchasing history. They have my e-mail. No attempt to engage. At 62 perhaps I don't fit the "customer" profile despite 48 years of continual, until now, support.
  • Great concise letter. It's a shame they won't reply, they don't have an answer for you.

    As an aside, I don't want to be that person but "irregardless" is one of those blend words that really grinds my gears. It's irrespective or regardless, not both. :-)

    Blimey Callum. The hours must truly fly by in your house!
  • DRAddick said:

    "....replacing the fans sofa......"! With what?

    A ducking stool and a set of stocks if it were up to me.
  • What Dave(s) said, keep the sofa, just leave it in the corner and let it rot, it can serve as Roly's legacy, a reminder of what truly delusional twat he actually is!
  • The problems with recruitment weren't down to Phil Chapple, so why would replacing him resolve them?

    No engagement or discussion is necessary around the sofa with T20k or anyone else. It's not "the subject of much debate". It's a shit idea from a brain-dead idiot with no understanding of football culture and has been widely ridiculed inside and outside the club. Just smash it up.

    Better still, "build a bonfire" as, I believe, was the fate of our revered coffin....

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Roland Out Forever!