For the first time The Valley was 98% united in wanting this lot out. Vocally and physically.
We need to act now.
It felt like more than 98% - the Wolves fans seemed to support us too! The next step has to to be something everybody will get behind. I suggest an orchestrated walk out when Forest get the first of their goals on Saturday, to the tune of 'Walk out if you love Charlton'.
You say that but the crowd yesterday was given as 18k.
It's meant to be a stretching target, it's meant to be an ambition.
No, she doesn't have a clue how to build the support or to even keep the fans we have but that's why a proper business development group with input from fans with the right expertise was and is needed.
It was going to happen but with 48 hours notice the club decided to change everything and so it becomes a pointless excersise.
Well done to Steve Clarke for refusing to participate on those terms.
Can I politely ask in the light of Airman's recent revelation regarding Peter Varney and the suggestion that it was Richard Murray who was instrumental in the club declining to speak with a very serious set of businesspeople that the Trust use their access to RM and ask what the fuck is going on.
Can I politely ask in the light of Airman's recent revelation regarding Peter Varney and the suggestion that it was Richard Murray who was instrumental in the club declining to speak with a very serious set of businesspeople that the Trust use their access to RM and ask what the fuck is going on.
He has to be confronted on this. He can say it had nothing to do with him, and if so, that would be useful, but we need to know.
At what point will the trust declare that it is time to stop waiting for meaningful dialogue and take a different approach?
For the record, I used to be a member but as I think that the current regime are completely uninterested in what we think I let it lapse. I have no beef with anyone at the trust.
The setting up of the 'Target 20k' is IMHO, just KM dangling the proverbial carrot. Now, if the trust back the protest then KM could take the offer away of dialogue via the 'Target 20k' avenue. Understandably the trust might not willing to risk this as they have worked long and hard to get this far. If they don't back the protest then it creates a divide of the fans and any movement becomes fragmented and weak. It's a classic example of divide and conquer by KM.
The above comment is my opinion and not a dig at anyone or the trust itself, it's just the way I see it.
It's a fair question. You'll appreciate there's detail I can't relate here that influences our decision-making, but it really is a judgement call rather than a set of hard fast criteria. I do recognise the importance of having specific measurable and time-bound goals, but we're dealing with people rather than process here and there are some realities around Christmas and the transfer window that complicate things a little, not least in terms of availability.
Target 20k didn't go down well on the Trust board for reasons that will become clear. KM comments on that video are definitely concerning, but as they came before the fans' meeting and her commitments there there's an element of 'as good as your last result'. We're proceeding open-eyed, but we're not blind to what's going on around us all.
Personally I would say that if in the next couple of weeks the strategy group formulation and date of first meeting hasn't been agreed then that's pretty much a big flag regarding the club's intentions, but that's my view rather than the official Trust line and it's Steve that's leading the conversations at the moment so his judgement is key.
I think the Trust have made it clear through our various statements and the platform we gave Joe that we fully support the objectives of B&W and the nature of its campaign - in contrast with the West Stand protests, which had no objectives and were appalling in nature - but we're not in a position to take a lead at this point (even if we really were best placed to do so).
I don't agree our position creates a divide, although I accept it may reflect one. There's been a division amongst supporters for quite a while, between supporters groups, the Trust, the G21, the Back to the Valley campaigners, forums (!) etc. It's why I'm a little brow-raised to see people who are usually not shy at telling us we're next to useless and/or just want mince pies in the boardroom now pushing us to take the lead on this. Some of it is surely personally-motivated mischief making - when we said we were concerned and facilitated a meeting earlier this year the very same people publicly declared they wouldn't be attending or supporting us.
I'll say again though, for anyone who wants to listen: right now, however effective they may be, we have two options for supporter action that can co-exist: influence through conversation, and influence through external protests. We are leading on the former, others are leading on the latter. Both are active, and to me it makes no sense to abandon one of them at this time.
The first West Stand protest had objectives and was certainly not appalling. The objectives (of that type of protest) were to show that more than just a few supporters were unhappy and to provoke a reaction. It succeeded and created the 2% protest. Whilst I would not agree with 100% of what was chanted, KM's provocation got what it deserved.
Despite the Christmas festivities, if KM felt that the meetings were vitally important to the club then possible dates would have long been suggested. Maybe not before Christmas but dates early in the new year would have already been set aside.
On that basis I feel the time for making the "judgement" call is imminent.
Updating my own post again ..... the time to disengage from 'talks' is surely NOW.
If KM was ever freely going to hold meaningful discussions then she would have arranged dates by now, especially after the media spotlight of the last few days. If she really considers it important to talk to the Trust then she will make contact whatever the circumstances, protests or no protests, so now is the time. It will either be a meaningless jesture in her eyes or another protest 'kick in the teeth'. Either way it has to be done.
I have heard the Trust argument that protests have never forced an owner out. Well, do we know that for sure ? The nature of rich people is that they don't make mistakes so there is no need to own up to them. Or at least, to make any forcing out appear as something else entirely - a new investment opportunity, spend more time with my family etc etc. They never retreat with their tails between their legs. And even if it is true, there's always a first time !
Updating my own post again ..... the time to disengage from 'talks' is surely NOW. If KM was ever freely going to hold meaningful discussions then she would have arranged dates by now, especially after the media spotlight of the last few days. If she really considers it important to talk to the Trust then she will make contact whatever the circumstances, protests or no protests, so now is the time. It will either be a meaningless jesture in her eyes or another protest 'kick in the teeth'. Either way it has to be done.
I have heard the Trust argument that protests have never forced an owner out. Well, do we know that for sure ? The nature of rich people is that they don't make mistakes so there is no need to own up to them. Or at least, to make any forcing out appear as something else entirely - a new investment opportunity, spend more time with my family etc etc. They never retreat with their tails between their legs. And even if it is true, there's always a first time !
One person cannot change things, it takes us all. Individuals, supporter groups etc all have to be united. If it becomes clear a manager or a CEO has no backing and is actually a liability, they can only survive so long. They will inevitably look for any crumb of authority and support they can grasp. Which is why everyone has to be on board for this to succeed.
Comments
It's meant to be a stretching target, it's meant to be an ambition.
No, she doesn't have a clue how to build the support or to even keep the fans we have but that's why a proper business development group with input from fans with the right expertise was and is needed.
It was going to happen but with 48 hours notice the club decided to change everything and so it becomes a pointless excersise.
Well done to Steve Clarke for refusing to participate on those terms.
If KM was ever freely going to hold meaningful discussions then she would have arranged dates by now, especially after the media spotlight of the last few days. If she really considers it important to talk to the Trust then she will make contact whatever the circumstances, protests or no protests, so now is the time. It will either be a meaningless jesture in her eyes or another protest 'kick in the teeth'. Either way it has to be done.
I have heard the Trust argument that protests have never forced an owner out. Well, do we know that for sure ? The nature of rich people is that they don't make mistakes so there is no need to own up to them. Or at least, to make any forcing out appear as something else entirely - a new investment opportunity, spend more time with my family etc etc. They never retreat with their tails between their legs. And even if it is true, there's always a first time !