The Trust have hardly been proactive, although I'm sure not by design but by the nature of the beast. If they have to get a new mandate every time RD or KM open their mouths they're never going to be able to keep up. The situation at Charlton is a moving target right now and the Trust has the dexterity of a turning barge trying to keep track of it.
Poor. if you'd asked Joe, you'd know that I bunged him £50 almost as soon as he opened his appeal for funds on PayPal. Plus something else which remains confidential between Joe and I.
At what point will the trust declare that it is time to stop waiting for meaningful dialogue and take a different approach?
For the record, I used to be a member but as I think that the current regime are completely uninterested in what we think I let it lapse. I have no beef with anyone at the trust.
The setting up of the 'Target 20k' is IMHO, just KM dangling the proverbial carrot. Now, if the trust back the protest then KM could take the offer away of dialogue via the 'Target 20k' avenue. Understandably the trust might not willing to risk this as they have worked long and hard to get this far. If they don't back the protest then it creates a divide of the fans and any movement becomes fragmented and weak. It's a classic example of divide and conquer by KM.
The above comment is my opinion and not a dig at anyone or the trust itself, it's just the way I see it.
It's a fair question. You'll appreciate there's detail I can't relate here that influences our decision-making, but it really is a judgement call rather than a set of hard fast criteria. I do recognise the importance of having specific measurable and time-bound goals, but we're dealing with people rather than process here and there are some realities around Christmas and the transfer window that complicate things a little, not least in terms of availability.
Target 20k didn't go down well on the Trust board for reasons that will become clear. KM comments on that video are definitely concerning, but as they came before the fans' meeting and her commitments there there's an element of 'as good as your last result'. We're proceeding open-eyed, but we're not blind to what's going on around us all.
Personally I would say that if in the next couple of weeks the strategy group formulation and date of first meeting hasn't been agreed then that's pretty much a big flag regarding the club's intentions, but that's my view rather than the official Trust line and it's Steve that's leading the conversations at the moment so his judgement is key.
I think the Trust have made it clear through our various statements and the platform we gave Joe that we fully support the objectives of B&W and the nature of its campaign - in contrast with the West Stand protests, which had no objectives and were appalling in nature - but we're not in a position to take a lead at this point (even if we really were best placed to do so).
I don't agree our position creates a divide, although I accept it may reflect one. There's been a division amongst supporters for quite a while, between supporters groups, the Trust, the G21, the Back to the Valley campaigners, forums (!) etc. It's why I'm a little brow-raised to see people who are usually not shy at telling us we're next to useless and/or just want mince pies in the boardroom now pushing us to take the lead on this. Some of it is surely personally-motivated mischief making - when we said we were concerned and facilitated a meeting earlier this year the very same people publicly declared they wouldn't be attending or supporting us.
I'll say again though, for anyone who wants to listen: right now, however effective they may be, we have two options for supporter action that can co-exist: influence through conversation, and influence through external protests. We are leading on the former, others are leading on the latter. Both are active, and to me it makes no sense to abandon one of them at this time.
Poor. if you'd asked Joe, you'd know that I bunged him £50 almost as soon as he opened his appeal for funds on PayPal. Plus something else which remains confidential between Joe and I.
The Trust have hardly been proactive, although I'm sure not by design but by the nature of the beast. If they have to get a new mandate every time RD or KM open their mouths they're never going to be able to keep up. The situation at Charlton is a moving target right now and the Trust has the dexterity of a turning barge trying to keep track of it.
We also have a long term mandate described in our constitution. It's quite right we're not blown by the latest change in the wind.
I joined the Trust on that cold evening in Woolwich. I joined because I believed (and still do) that we need a democratic and sensible body to represent fans' opinions to the (laughingly named) 'Board' I am disappointed so far with what the Trust have achieved, but have not lost faith. Many supporters are looking to the Trust to lead and that leadership seems absent. I'm not sure we can wait until the end of January, I think action now is imperative. I agree entirely with 'Lancashire lad' that the infighting between separate groups is wrong. It's worse than that it's a weakness that Meire will exploit. I don't personally know any of the Trust, I don't personally know 'Henry Irving' I would ask that both or either of those grow up and stop blowing metaphorical raspberries at each other. Try working together for the good of Charlton, rather than for your own profile.
Pure speculation but I think ire is related to museum and deference issues, possible 'always the victim' mentality. I reckon all Charlton fans can have an opinion about what the Trust ought to do, even if there is irony in some of those fans not being members themselves.
At what point will the trust declare that it is time to stop waiting for meaningful dialogue and take a different approach?
For the record, I used to be a member but as I think that the current regime are completely uninterested in what we think I let it lapse. I have no beef with anyone at the trust.
The setting up of the 'Target 20k' is IMHO, just KM dangling the proverbial carrot. Now, if the trust back the protest then KM could take the offer away of dialogue via the 'Target 20k' avenue. Understandably the trust might not willing to risk this as they have worked long and hard to get this far. If they don't back the protest then it creates a divide of the fans and any movement becomes fragmented and weak. It's a classic example of divide and conquer by KM.
The above comment is my opinion and not a dig at anyone or the trust itself, it's just the way I see it.
It's a fair question. You'll appreciate there's detail I can't relate here that influences our decision-making, but it really is a judgement call rather than a set of hard fast criteria. I do recognise the importance of having specific measurable and time-bound goals, but we're dealing with people rather than process here and there are some realities around Christmas and the transfer window that complicate things a little, not least in terms of availability.
Target 20k didn't go down well on the Trust board for reasons that will become clear. KM comments on that video are definitely concerning, but as they came before the fans' meeting and her commitments there there's an element of 'as good as your last result'. We're proceeding open-eyed, but we're not blind to what's going on around us all.
Personally I would say that if in the next couple of weeks the strategy group formulation and date of first meeting hasn't been agreed then that's pretty much a big flag regarding the club's intentions, but that's my view rather than the official Trust line and it's Steve that's leading the conversations at the moment so his judgement is key.
I think the Trust have made it clear through our various statements and the platform we gave Joe that we fully support the objectives of B&W and the nature of its campaign - in contrast with the West Stand protests, which had no objectives and were appalling in nature - but we're not in a position to take a lead at this point (even if we really were best placed to do so).
I don't agree our position creates a divide, although I accept it may reflect one. There's been a division amongst supporters for quite a while, between supporters groups, the Trust, the G21, the Back to the Valley campaigners, forums (!) etc. It's why I'm a little brow-raised to see people who are usually not shy at telling us we're next to useless and/or just want mince pies in the boardroom now pushing us to take the lead on this. Some of it is surely personally-motivated mischief making - when we said we were concerned and facilitated a meeting earlier this year the very same people publicly declared they wouldn't be attending or supporting us.
I'll say again though, for anyone who wants to listen: right now, however effective they may be, we have two options for supporter action that can co-exist: influence through conversation, and influence through external protests. We are leading on the former, others are leading on the latter. Both are active, and to me it makes no sense to abandon one of them at this time.
The first West Stand protest had objectives and was certainly not appalling. The objectives (of that type of protest) were to show that more than just a few supporters were unhappy and to provoke a reaction. It succeeded and created the 2% protest. Whilst I would not agree with 100% of what was chanted, KM's provocation got what it deserved.
Despite the Christmas festivities, if KM felt that the meetings were vitally important to the club then possible dates would have long been suggested. Maybe not before Christmas but dates early in the new year would have already been set aside.
On that basis I feel the time for making the "judgement" call is imminent.
There have been a few comments about 'who would we get in if the Belgians left?' Well, there's a blog saying VOTV reckon a bid came in via Mr Varney, which the Belgians snubbed. Imagine. We could be shot of them!! Sounds like there are buyers out there. Maybe we need to make the Valley a bit more hostile so that they think about moving on. Face it, this is like a ruined marriage. No point in dragging out the misery on either side.
you lot arguing with each other really pisses me off, now is the time for all fans to get together and fight for our club. I can understand the Trust's point of view and I applaud the B&W campaign. Surely it is not beyond the whit of the Trust leadership and B&W organisers, which I think includes Ben Hayes, to get together and work for the saving of our club instead of all this bloody in fighting.
What can I do? - very little except a minimal financial support to your efforts so please talk to each other today and help each other to organise the protest that must come even if it is not in the name of the Trust but has the Trust's assistance.
Spot on. All the different factions need to come together and spell it out quite cleary to KM and the media we are not putting up with this nonsense any longer.
In the last 12 months I have joined the trust, attended the VIP Q&A, went to the Woolwich meeting, attended the Trust AGM, went to the first car park protest, bought 2 black and white scarfs. Also held up the 2%poster (admittedly upside down!). With the exception of mine and my 2 kids season tickets I have not given CAFC another penny and with the exception of season tickets will not do so again until REAL change has occurred at our club.
Charlton supporters politics have always been strange, but we really do all need to pull together with a united voice against the clowns who are running our club
I'm a reasonable man, normally. But the time for discussion, committees, dates for conversations and imo even the trust are well up. A concerted and extended boycott (even although it will be not be unanimous) is the only hope.
so why is nothing being done by the supporters ie petitions to RD and the local press, we will be in league 1 with millwall next season, and RD is only interested in money and not football and charlton fans
Protest support is increasing. I sit at the back of the East Stand. Eight people were in my row, eight in front and seven behind. Five of the 23 wore black and white scarves (including myself); all but five of the 23 stood up during the protest song.
We KNOW what Roland is doing. I just wonder how many other clubs' fans at this stage of club destruction would be bickering and pontificating over scarves and 'dialogue'?
Comments
The situation at Charlton is a moving target right now and the Trust has the dexterity of a turning barge trying to keep track of it.
Target 20k didn't go down well on the Trust board for reasons that will become clear. KM comments on that video are definitely concerning, but as they came before the fans' meeting and her commitments there there's an element of 'as good as your last result'. We're proceeding open-eyed, but we're not blind to what's going on around us all.
Personally I would say that if in the next couple of weeks the strategy group formulation and date of first meeting hasn't been agreed then that's pretty much a big flag regarding the club's intentions, but that's my view rather than the official Trust line and it's Steve that's leading the conversations at the moment so his judgement is key.
I think the Trust have made it clear through our various statements and the platform we gave Joe that we fully support the objectives of B&W and the nature of its campaign - in contrast with the West Stand protests, which had no objectives and were appalling in nature - but we're not in a position to take a lead at this point (even if we really were best placed to do so).
I don't agree our position creates a divide, although I accept it may reflect one. There's been a division amongst supporters for quite a while, between supporters groups, the Trust, the G21, the Back to the Valley campaigners, forums (!) etc. It's why I'm a little brow-raised to see people who are usually not shy at telling us we're next to useless and/or just want mince pies in the boardroom now pushing us to take the lead on this. Some of it is surely personally-motivated mischief making - when we said we were concerned and facilitated a meeting earlier this year the very same people publicly declared they wouldn't be attending or supporting us.
I'll say again though, for anyone who wants to listen: right now, however effective they may be, we have two options for supporter action that can co-exist: influence through conversation, and influence through external protests. We are leading on the former, others are leading on the latter. Both are active, and to me it makes no sense to abandon one of them at this time.
I am disappointed so far with what the Trust have achieved, but have not lost faith.
Many supporters are looking to the Trust to lead and that leadership seems absent.
I'm not sure we can wait until the end of January, I think action now is imperative.
I agree entirely with 'Lancashire lad' that the infighting between separate groups is wrong. It's worse than that it's a weakness that Meire will exploit.
I don't personally know any of the Trust, I don't personally know 'Henry Irving' I would ask that both or either of those grow up and stop blowing metaphorical raspberries at each other. Try working together for the good of Charlton, rather than for your own profile.
I reckon all Charlton fans can have an opinion about what the Trust ought to do, even if there is irony in some of those fans not being members themselves.
The first West Stand protest had objectives and was certainly not appalling. The objectives (of that type of protest) were to show that more than just a few supporters were unhappy and to provoke a reaction. It succeeded and created the 2% protest. Whilst I would not agree with 100% of what was chanted, KM's provocation got what it deserved.
Despite the Christmas festivities, if KM felt that the meetings were vitally important to the club then possible dates would have long been suggested. Maybe not before Christmas but dates early in the new year would have already been set aside.
On that basis I feel the time for making the "judgement" call is imminent.
In the last 12 months I have joined the trust, attended the VIP Q&A, went to the Woolwich meeting, attended the Trust AGM, went to the first car park protest, bought 2 black and white scarfs. Also held up the 2%poster (admittedly upside down!). With the exception of mine and my 2 kids season tickets I have not given CAFC another penny and with the exception of season tickets will not do so again until REAL change has occurred at our club.
Charlton supporters politics have always been strange, but we really do all need to pull together with a united voice against the clowns who are running our club
We need to act now.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
2% ...you're having a laugh.
WTF?
Not many of them about these days but if you're paying a membership fee to someone, you have every right to ask the question.
( Hope it's not Bromley Addicks !