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Fans / Club meeting tonight

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  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited November 2015
    Given the lack of response she has to give, in a role where her only stakeholder (her opinion, not mine btw, I think she has 25,000 odd stakeholders) sets a world class level of acquiescence,.....


    How crap a lawyer is she if she can't even fudge a few anoraks without been caught out by her own contradictions?
  • Looks like they had an easy ride because there doesn't appear to have been any incisive questions coming from the audience and that, therefore, they were able to drive their own agenda. Some of those present, for instance the members of CAST, were meant to be representing the rest of us and they have failed. This kind of forum is a two-way process and it seems to me that the Charlton fans present have failed to step up to the plate. I won't be renewing my subscription to CAST.
  • Will wait for the video before any further comments but one quote has caught my attention and it's Murray's repeated claim that Duchatelet likes to know his managers to feel he can trust them. Surely there must have been a time when he didn't know Riga, Peeters, Luzon or Fraeye? Also, couldn't that issue be addressed if he bothered to visit The Valley and interview candidates for himself rather just dismiss anyone outside his network?
  • rikofold
    rikofold Posts: 4,051
    That's fair chaps, and as I say they're doing their job and dragging people to their channels and their advertisers. It was no doubt a naive decision borne of our insistence on no info embargo.

    The key observation I'd make is that the context was lost in 140 characters, and it made it sound as if the fans were motionless whilst KM wheeled out some bullshit. The meeting really wasn't like that, although as usual words might have been chosen more carefully. We didn't let her views on the protest go unchallenged, for example, and I felt she did listen to Craig Norris and others making very strong points. The £9m transfer spend didn't go unchallenged. Her managers comment didn't go unchallenged. The question about JJ's goal was a joke and the reporter knew that.

    The downside of it is that it will be the Twitter feed that's remembered, when there was more to the meeting - and that's really only given a skewed flavour of it.

    But you reap what you sow, and if discontent and disharmony is the result then the club only have themselves to blame.
  • PragueAddick
    PragueAddick Posts: 22,161
    Rothko said:

    I thought the journalist in the room did a good job, be it the Shopper, or Brad Pinard who I thought reported the whole thing exceptionally well.

    Well, as you also posted , you were not there and are waiting to see the video. Those there are now reporting that many of the questions which they had pre-planned were in fact asked. That is not apparent from the 'reporting". People on the thread last night were driven to rage because they had the impression that the questions were not being asked and the club was running a pre-scripted whitewash.

    We will see the video. If it turns out to give a significantly different impression to that gained from the tweets last night, then at least some of our endless store of anger should be directed at the Shopper and Mr Pinard. I've already tweeted the Shopper.

    Of course wise uncle @AFKABartram will be shaking his head this morning, that he was warning people nearly twice his age last night to beware of tweets and wait for a considered report from the meeting. It may be that us older ones are more vulnerable to this mistake because we still believe that something with the name of a known media outlet such as the Shopper is published,even as a Tweet, it must be something near a true account of what they re observing.

    @Redmidland would have put them to shame.
  • rikofold
    rikofold Posts: 4,051

    Looks like they had an easy ride because there doesn't appear to have been any incisive questions coming from the audience and that, therefore, they were able to drive their own agenda. Some of those present, for instance the members of CAST, were meant to be representing the rest of us and they have failed. This kind of forum is a two-way process and it seems to me that the Charlton fans present have failed to step up to the plate. I won't be renewing my subscription to CAST.

    Look, you're entitled to your view and I'm not here to persuade you to renew your subscription, etc. All I will say to you is that you are going on 140-character tweets of what the club said. They didn't report on the questions. There were a couple of hints in those tweets that not all was going well, and that's largely because they weren't easily let off the hook when they gave spurious answers. The evening wasn't perfect by any means, but as I posted before it - let's get our expectations lined up. We should expect them to give us business-appropriate answers. I think on the whole that's what they did. We hope they will open up more - that wasn't achieved with any consistency.

    Watch the video, and decide then. If we let you down, all I can say is the team did its best on the night under the circumstances of moving goalposts and the club conducting the meeting.
  • rikofold said:

    That's fair chaps, and as I say they're doing their job and dragging people to their channels and their advertisers. It was no doubt a naive decision borne of our insistence on no info embargo.

    The key observation I'd make is that the context was lost in 140 characters, and it made it sound as if the fans were motionless whilst KM wheeled out some bullshit. The meeting really wasn't like that, although as usual words might have been chosen more carefully. We didn't let her views on the protest go unchallenged, for example, and I felt she did listen to Craig Norris and others making very strong points. The £9m transfer spend didn't go unchallenged. Her managers comment didn't go unchallenged. The question about JJ's goal was a joke and the reporter knew that.

    The downside of it is that it will be the Twitter feed that's remembered, when there was more to the meeting - and that's really only given a skewed flavour of it.

    But you reap what you sow, and if discontent and disharmony is the result then the club only have themselves to blame.

    I have one question on the evening that hopefully you can answer.

    Did it sound like she is going to change anything about how the club is run?

    As I said in an earlier comment, after reading yours, Curb it's and Seths reports, it sounds like that while fans did challenge her, she still believes in the nonsense she is sprouting, and nothing will actually change except maybe a few more meetings with a carefully picked bunch of people.

    Look forward to hearing what you think may come of it.
  • To me, it's the answers from Meire and Murray that are most important here. I accept that the meeting may not have been as one sided as the reports suggest, but the answers given were just complete rubbish, and it was those responses that were making me angry.

    It is abundantly clear to me now, that there is absolutely no point in a dialogue with these people.
  • Airman Brown
    Airman Brown Posts: 15,745
    edited November 2015

    Rothko said:

    I thought the journalist in the room did a good job, be it the Shopper, or Brad Pinard who I thought reported the whole thing exceptionally well.

    Well, as you also posted , you were not there and are waiting to see the video. Those there are now reporting that many of the questions which they had pre-planned were in fact asked. That is not apparent from the 'reporting". People on the thread last night were driven to rage because they had the impression that the questions were not being asked and the club was running a pre-scripted whitewash.

    We will see the video. If it turns out to give a significantly different impression to that gained from the tweets last night, then at least some of our endless store of anger should be directed at the Shopper and Mr Pinard. I've already tweeted the Shopper.

    Of course wise uncle @AFKABartram will be shaking his head this morning, that he was warning people nearly twice his age last night to beware of tweets and wait for a considered report from the meeting. It may be that us older ones are more vulnerable to this mistake because we still believe that something with the name of a known media outlet such as the Shopper is published,even as a Tweet, it must be something near a true account of what they re observing.

    @Redmidland would have put them to shame.
    Part of the problem is that none of the reporters will have had much clue who else was in the room other than Meire, Jackson and Murray, and therefore little background. It's inevitable that what they say is the story. The rest is the nature of Twitter.

    Toby Porter has now followed the Shopper in reporting the shitstorm. It's delusional to imagine they are all three part of a conspiracy of unprofessionalism - just as it is unwise to take the account of those caught up in the moment on the fan side as objective truth either. It will look different again on a video. Perspective is all.
  • Redskin
    Redskin Posts: 3,117
    edited November 2015


    Like it or not to solve this issue you need a structure, a blue print for what you want to achieve and someone leading it

    The trust in other words.

    No matter what people think of them,they are the only group that has scratched the surface of Meire's obduracy and this is in spite of being continually criticised by individuals who claim they don't represent them - then don't join - and others whose own conceit makes them bridle at the fact that they are not in the spotlight.

    Prague has made the point more than once, that fans of bigger clubs than ours now have dialogue with their owners,but the process took time: years,in fact.
    In an age of importunateness and knee-jerk reaction,patience is a rare commodity but one we are going to need by the lorry-load if we are going to have any influence on the club's future.

    And by the way, punctuation isn't just for nerds, it's also for the literate.


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  • kentred2
    kentred2 Posts: 2,338
    rikofold said:

    Looks like they had an easy ride because there doesn't appear to have been any incisive questions coming from the audience and that, therefore, they were able to drive their own agenda. Some of those present, for instance the members of CAST, were meant to be representing the rest of us and they have failed. This kind of forum is a two-way process and it seems to me that the Charlton fans present have failed to step up to the plate. I won't be renewing my subscription to CAST.

    Look, you're entitled to your view and I'm not here to persuade you to renew your subscription, etc. All I will say to you is that you are going on 140-character tweets of what the club said. They didn't report on the questions. There were a couple of hints in those tweets that not all was going well, and that's largely because they weren't easily let off the hook when they gave spurious answers. The evening wasn't perfect by any means, but as I posted before it - let's get our expectations lined up. We should expect them to give us business-appropriate answers. I think on the whole that's what they did. We hope they will open up more - that wasn't achieved with any consistency.

    Watch the video, and decide then. If we let you down, all I can say is the team did its best on the night under the circumstances of moving goalposts and the club conducting the meeting.
    I don't think the fans in the room let us down. What has let us down is the CAST quest for a place at the table which will no doubt continue.
  • seth plum
    seth plum Posts: 53,448

    rikofold said:

    That's fair chaps, and as I say they're doing their job and dragging people to their channels and their advertisers. It was no doubt a naive decision borne of our insistence on no info embargo.

    The key observation I'd make is that the context was lost in 140 characters, and it made it sound as if the fans were motionless whilst KM wheeled out some bullshit. The meeting really wasn't like that, although as usual words might have been chosen more carefully. We didn't let her views on the protest go unchallenged, for example, and I felt she did listen to Craig Norris and others making very strong points. The £9m transfer spend didn't go unchallenged. Her managers comment didn't go unchallenged. The question about JJ's goal was a joke and the reporter knew that.

    The downside of it is that it will be the Twitter feed that's remembered, when there was more to the meeting - and that's really only given a skewed flavour of it.

    But you reap what you sow, and if discontent and disharmony is the result then the club only have themselves to blame.

    I have one question on the evening that hopefully you can answer.

    Did it sound like she is going to change anything about how the club is run?

    As I said in an earlier comment, after reading yours, Curb it's and Seths reports, it sounds like that while fans did challenge her, she still believes in the nonsense she is sprouting, and nothing will actually change except maybe a few more meetings with a carefully picked bunch of people.

    Look forward to hearing what you think may come of it.
    I said in the meeting that a lot of fans who pitched up last night were hoping to hear about some kind of seminal change, there was a lot of investment, emotional or otherwise in that meeting, and that I thought we were being offered more of the same. I was pretty clumsy in making that point, but for what it is worth I don't think Katrien and co arrived at the meeting intent on changing things.
    It is possible that viewpoints were shifted as a result of the meeting, but probably a faint possibility, and I'm not holding my breath.
    It is also possible that the meeting was the start of a slow slog towards something better, I suppose I am naive enough to hope so based on the 'journey of 1000 miles' principle.
    My other hope is that Euromillions wasn't won last night, so I can win it on Friday and take over the club.

  • AFKABartram
    AFKABartram Posts: 57,834
    Though they might not have reported last night in the way some of us would, these journos are potential allies further down the line. Might be wise not to cut our nose off in that regards
  • Curb_It
    Curb_It Posts: 21,232
    She was wearing a cream blouse! Jesus didn't think to include that in my notes.

    Actually I just read some back. Not that clear I think the video will be best but who the hell is going to listen to 1.50 mins! It was loooong! Just typing up some scribble now. But I did stop taking notes at points im afraid. These notes are written and some from memory, I will try not to put words in people's mouths.

    Top table was Chris Parkes, R Murray, K Meire, JJ and Steve Avory. Im afraid i didnt get the other guy's name who i believe is a business manager of some part. Sorry.

    We started by an introduction from KM and what she wanted to achieve tonight. She wanted to state that Charlton Athletic is a team of people, not just run by one person overseas. We are here to talk about the future.

    The criticism is that it is unclear what is the strategy.. So we then had a slideshow with a brief overview of steps they have taken.

    Key objectives:

    The high level overview is a competitive championship team with Premier League ambition.

    Grow attendance to 20k.

    The Academy and the Community.

    What they have done:

    2014 increased wages by 40%.
    Spent 9m on incoming transfers.
    Players are now on longer contracts. They have 25 players and only 5 due to expire soon... Johnnie being one of them I think she said. We all smile at poor Johnnie. Poor bastard being dragged along.
    Sign our academy players into contracts. No more Poyet scenarios will happen.

    Growing attendances:

    They are investing 4.5 million in the Valley.

    Fan Engagement. Family zone, sofa, new lounge.

    Affordable football.
    And to have open and constructive dialogue.

    The Academy is the heart of our operations.


    Rich Pemberton starts:

    He states that there is a great dissatisfaction of how things are going. The fans want to enter into a dialogue with you. We wanted to have an independent moderator here tonight. [Who is the chair? KM answers that she is.] We hope that we can get a chance to have an open discussion.

    Some of the fans here tonight have collaborated together to go through a number of different themes.

    Rich also states somewhere that we had just wanted the meeting with RM/KM so most of the questions would be directed at these two. Or similar words.

    Rich asks RM/KM to articulate what they think the fans main issues are.

    Fans are not clear what the strategy is. Results don't help.

    RM: I know fans feel so differently to each other. Tell us what your issues are?

    RP: We are asking you.

    RM: A business which doesn't eat money. This academy is something I've dreamt about in 25 years.

    Bit of a gap here and the video will fill in as I was to ask a question. My question was about their strategy for the development of the club one that we can all buy into but they had off footed me a bit with their presentation. As she said she had already covered it in the presentation but then reiterated some of the similar points.


    Seth: Results have been very disappointing since RD turned up. We are no better off since he arrived. Can you explain the failure? Why should we buy into that?

    We managed to stay up... [Christ my notes are shit sorry guys as I haven't written who said that and why! Im going to get pelters I can tell].

    RM: Whether Luzon lost the plot I don't know. We have a better squad now. I think foreign squads take time to adjust. Maybe we played a better system? (assume he means Saturday). Johnnie will confirm championship the most difficult league.







  • tricky
    tricky Posts: 1,291
    Journalists obviously have an angle to create, but they can only work with what is said by Katrien. Some of the quotes, even allowing for the fact they had no context, were gobsmacking in a number of ways.

  • PragueAddick
    PragueAddick Posts: 22,161

    Rothko said:

    I thought the journalist in the room did a good job, be it the Shopper, or Brad Pinard who I thought reported the whole thing exceptionally well.

    Well, as you also posted , you were not there and are waiting to see the video. Those there are now reporting that many of the questions which they had pre-planned were in fact asked. That is not apparent from the 'reporting". People on the thread last night were driven to rage because they had the impression that the questions were not being asked and the club was running a pre-scripted whitewash.

    We will see the video. If it turns out to give a significantly different impression to that gained from the tweets last night, then at least some of our endless store of anger should be directed at the Shopper and Mr Pinard. I've already tweeted the Shopper.

    Of course wise uncle @AFKABartram will be shaking his head this morning, that he was warning people nearly twice his age last night to beware of tweets and wait for a considered report from the meeting. It may be that us older ones are more vulnerable to this mistake because we still believe that something with the name of a known media outlet such as the Shopper is published,even as a Tweet, it must be something near a true account of what they re observing.

    @Redmidland would have put them to shame.
    Part of the problem is that none of the reporters will have had much clue who else was in the room other than Meire, Jackson and Murray, and therefore little background. It's inevitable that what they say is the story. The rest is the nature of Twitter.

    Toby Porter has now followed the Shopper in reporting the shitstorm. It's delusional to imagine they are all three part of a conspiracy of unprofessionalism - just as it is unwise to take the account of those caught up in the moment on the fan side as objective truth either. It will look different again on a video. Perspective is all.
    Absolutely, let's see the video and then see where we all are.

    I've got my own "focus group" (in my head) of respected CL posters whose opinions I respect for being reasonable, thoughtful, and not the type to rush to the barricades. Last night, based on the tweets, they were absolutely fuming. If they see the video and say "hang on, thats a bit different to what I understood", then I will personally be going back to those guys from the press. After all we criticise our players and management freely, despite not having done the job ourselves, why should the journalists not be subject to the same scrutiny?

    All that said, the message is the key thing, not the messenger. You don't need to remind me.
  • Dippenhall
    Dippenhall Posts: 3,919
    The questions are only important if the other party are engaging in a dialogue and give an honest insight.

    The words she spoke and reported say it all. It's absurd to put blame on the audience for what KM said. Whst questions would have got an admission of failure? She is clearly fighting for her job.

    The Billy big bollocks on here wanting a scene would have just given KM what she wanted, to turn the debate on us rather than her.
  • PragueAddick
    PragueAddick Posts: 22,161

    Though they might not have reported last night in the way some of us would, these journos are potential allies further down the line. Might be wise not to cut our nose off in that regards

    Ah the voice of reason again. I guess you are right.

  • Yeh I agree with that @Dippenhall

    I think it's unfair to blame those who attended. I've no doubt the fans representatives aren't in it for the personal promotion, those I've met did not seem at all like that to me.

    (that doesn't apply to the one comment/question that seems to have been a deliberate plant by the Club management which was totally out of order, shame on that man, you know who you are)

    I find it poignant that KM made such an issue about chairing the meeting when it's common knowledge that any meeting focused on achieving mediation needs to be chaired by someone who is not one of the main protagonists. Gosh she is so image conscious/power hungry, her lack of self awareness knows no bounds.

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  • Thanks @Curb_It. Perhaps she could take some advice and learnings from some of the fans she's now so keen to create a dialogue with for one of her main objectives. @Airman Brown springs to mind for the 'Grow attendance to 20k' target. Wasn't it 40,000 once upon a time...
  • Curb_It
    Curb_It Posts: 21,232
    got to take a break for a few mins fr work and then a meeting at 11 but I will try and get a further installment in before 11...
  • Dazzler21
    Dazzler21 Posts: 51,361
    Where be this video?
  • AFKABartram
    AFKABartram Posts: 57,834
    thanks @Curb_It
  • rikofold
    rikofold Posts: 4,051
    Dazzler21 said:

    Where be this video?

    Busy being edited so it looks like it's not been edited ;-)
  • cafc999
    cafc999 Posts: 4,968
    Simonsen said:

    cafc999 said:

    cafc999 said:

    Fuck sake. That statement makes me angrier than I've been throughout her entire reign here. What a piece of work she is!
    Wether you like it or not the majority of fans are only angry because of our recent results and the lack of money what they think should be invested in the first team.
    Can i also point out that the majority of our fan base do not even use or read CL or ITTV so that would make us the minority.
    If carol wins the next 6 games on the trot ( doubtful i know ) then that gathering on saturday will then become one man and his dog.
    Lastly what the fuck did you expect her to say? Because whatever she said was always going to be shot down in flames and no i am not defending her or Roly but until someone can find a buyer who is prepared to lose 7 million a year..............
    People are fed up because she keeps telling lies.

    Let's be honest, do you not think that Karel is not going to be the next permanent manager..??

    Some of the spin on spouted out tonight is embarrassing to say at least
    She just gets told what to do, its not her money. Karel will be manager and i will give him my support until i see otherwise.
    I too support Karel but katrien is not as innocent as she appears.
    None of us are....
    True but not all of us are the CEO of a championship club where a poor judgement call on something cab effect thousands of people.
  • PragueAddick
    PragueAddick Posts: 22,161
    Curb_It said:

    got to take a break for a few mins fr work and then a meeting at 11 but I will try and get a further installment in before 11...

    Much appreciated, @Curb_It sets up key quotes to watch for in the video.

  • Ross
    Ross Posts: 4,412
    Can I make a suggestion to @Curb_It or @AFKABartram

    Could all of Brenda's meeting notes be amalgamated into one post once done so that it easier to read the whole lot in one go? Rather than having to trawl through posts....
  • Is there anyway that some of these tweets were hacked and put out there by a Millwall fan to wind the Charlton fans up?