Attention: Please take a moment to consider our terms and conditions before posting.
Fans / Club meeting tonight
Comments
-
Given the lack of response she has to give, in a role where her only stakeholder (her opinion, not mine btw, I think she has 25,000 odd stakeholders) sets a world class level of acquiescence,.....
How crap a lawyer is she if she can't even fudge a few anoraks without been caught out by her own contradictions?2 -
Looks like they had an easy ride because there doesn't appear to have been any incisive questions coming from the audience and that, therefore, they were able to drive their own agenda. Some of those present, for instance the members of CAST, were meant to be representing the rest of us and they have failed. This kind of forum is a two-way process and it seems to me that the Charlton fans present have failed to step up to the plate. I won't be renewing my subscription to CAST.1
-
Will wait for the video before any further comments but one quote has caught my attention and it's Murray's repeated claim that Duchatelet likes to know his managers to feel he can trust them. Surely there must have been a time when he didn't know Riga, Peeters, Luzon or Fraeye? Also, couldn't that issue be addressed if he bothered to visit The Valley and interview candidates for himself rather just dismiss anyone outside his network?8
-
That's fair chaps, and as I say they're doing their job and dragging people to their channels and their advertisers. It was no doubt a naive decision borne of our insistence on no info embargo.
The key observation I'd make is that the context was lost in 140 characters, and it made it sound as if the fans were motionless whilst KM wheeled out some bullshit. The meeting really wasn't like that, although as usual words might have been chosen more carefully. We didn't let her views on the protest go unchallenged, for example, and I felt she did listen to Craig Norris and others making very strong points. The £9m transfer spend didn't go unchallenged. Her managers comment didn't go unchallenged. The question about JJ's goal was a joke and the reporter knew that.
The downside of it is that it will be the Twitter feed that's remembered, when there was more to the meeting - and that's really only given a skewed flavour of it.
But you reap what you sow, and if discontent and disharmony is the result then the club only have themselves to blame.3 -
Well, as you also posted , you were not there and are waiting to see the video. Those there are now reporting that many of the questions which they had pre-planned were in fact asked. That is not apparent from the 'reporting". People on the thread last night were driven to rage because they had the impression that the questions were not being asked and the club was running a pre-scripted whitewash.Rothko said:I thought the journalist in the room did a good job, be it the Shopper, or Brad Pinard who I thought reported the whole thing exceptionally well.
We will see the video. If it turns out to give a significantly different impression to that gained from the tweets last night, then at least some of our endless store of anger should be directed at the Shopper and Mr Pinard. I've already tweeted the Shopper.
Of course wise uncle @AFKABartram will be shaking his head this morning, that he was warning people nearly twice his age last night to beware of tweets and wait for a considered report from the meeting. It may be that us older ones are more vulnerable to this mistake because we still believe that something with the name of a known media outlet such as the Shopper is published,even as a Tweet, it must be something near a true account of what they re observing.
@Redmidland would have put them to shame.
4 -
Look, you're entitled to your view and I'm not here to persuade you to renew your subscription, etc. All I will say to you is that you are going on 140-character tweets of what the club said. They didn't report on the questions. There were a couple of hints in those tweets that not all was going well, and that's largely because they weren't easily let off the hook when they gave spurious answers. The evening wasn't perfect by any means, but as I posted before it - let's get our expectations lined up. We should expect them to give us business-appropriate answers. I think on the whole that's what they did. We hope they will open up more - that wasn't achieved with any consistency.5_12_2004at1752 said:Looks like they had an easy ride because there doesn't appear to have been any incisive questions coming from the audience and that, therefore, they were able to drive their own agenda. Some of those present, for instance the members of CAST, were meant to be representing the rest of us and they have failed. This kind of forum is a two-way process and it seems to me that the Charlton fans present have failed to step up to the plate. I won't be renewing my subscription to CAST.
Watch the video, and decide then. If we let you down, all I can say is the team did its best on the night under the circumstances of moving goalposts and the club conducting the meeting.8 -
I have one question on the evening that hopefully you can answer.rikofold said:That's fair chaps, and as I say they're doing their job and dragging people to their channels and their advertisers. It was no doubt a naive decision borne of our insistence on no info embargo.
The key observation I'd make is that the context was lost in 140 characters, and it made it sound as if the fans were motionless whilst KM wheeled out some bullshit. The meeting really wasn't like that, although as usual words might have been chosen more carefully. We didn't let her views on the protest go unchallenged, for example, and I felt she did listen to Craig Norris and others making very strong points. The £9m transfer spend didn't go unchallenged. Her managers comment didn't go unchallenged. The question about JJ's goal was a joke and the reporter knew that.
The downside of it is that it will be the Twitter feed that's remembered, when there was more to the meeting - and that's really only given a skewed flavour of it.
But you reap what you sow, and if discontent and disharmony is the result then the club only have themselves to blame.
Did it sound like she is going to change anything about how the club is run?
As I said in an earlier comment, after reading yours, Curb it's and Seths reports, it sounds like that while fans did challenge her, she still believes in the nonsense she is sprouting, and nothing will actually change except maybe a few more meetings with a carefully picked bunch of people.
Look forward to hearing what you think may come of it.0 -
To me, it's the answers from Meire and Murray that are most important here. I accept that the meeting may not have been as one sided as the reports suggest, but the answers given were just complete rubbish, and it was those responses that were making me angry.
It is abundantly clear to me now, that there is absolutely no point in a dialogue with these people.7 -
Part of the problem is that none of the reporters will have had much clue who else was in the room other than Meire, Jackson and Murray, and therefore little background. It's inevitable that what they say is the story. The rest is the nature of Twitter.PragueAddick said:
Well, as you also posted , you were not there and are waiting to see the video. Those there are now reporting that many of the questions which they had pre-planned were in fact asked. That is not apparent from the 'reporting". People on the thread last night were driven to rage because they had the impression that the questions were not being asked and the club was running a pre-scripted whitewash.Rothko said:I thought the journalist in the room did a good job, be it the Shopper, or Brad Pinard who I thought reported the whole thing exceptionally well.
We will see the video. If it turns out to give a significantly different impression to that gained from the tweets last night, then at least some of our endless store of anger should be directed at the Shopper and Mr Pinard. I've already tweeted the Shopper.
Of course wise uncle @AFKABartram will be shaking his head this morning, that he was warning people nearly twice his age last night to beware of tweets and wait for a considered report from the meeting. It may be that us older ones are more vulnerable to this mistake because we still believe that something with the name of a known media outlet such as the Shopper is published,even as a Tweet, it must be something near a true account of what they re observing.
@Redmidland would have put them to shame.
Toby Porter has now followed the Shopper in reporting the shitstorm. It's delusional to imagine they are all three part of a conspiracy of unprofessionalism - just as it is unwise to take the account of those caught up in the moment on the fan side as objective truth either. It will look different again on a video. Perspective is all.1 -
The trust in other words.nth london addick said:
Like it or not to solve this issue you need a structure, a blue print for what you want to achieve and someone leading it
No matter what people think of them,they are the only group that has scratched the surface of Meire's obduracy and this is in spite of being continually criticised by individuals who claim they don't represent them - then don't join - and others whose own conceit makes them bridle at the fact that they are not in the spotlight.
Prague has made the point more than once, that fans of bigger clubs than ours now have dialogue with their owners,but the process took time: years,in fact.
In an age of importunateness and knee-jerk reaction,patience is a rare commodity but one we are going to need by the lorry-load if we are going to have any influence on the club's future.
And by the way, punctuation isn't just for nerds, it's also for the literate.
11 -
Sponsored links:
-
I don't think the fans in the room let us down. What has let us down is the CAST quest for a place at the table which will no doubt continue.rikofold said:
Look, you're entitled to your view and I'm not here to persuade you to renew your subscription, etc. All I will say to you is that you are going on 140-character tweets of what the club said. They didn't report on the questions. There were a couple of hints in those tweets that not all was going well, and that's largely because they weren't easily let off the hook when they gave spurious answers. The evening wasn't perfect by any means, but as I posted before it - let's get our expectations lined up. We should expect them to give us business-appropriate answers. I think on the whole that's what they did. We hope they will open up more - that wasn't achieved with any consistency.5_12_2004at1752 said:Looks like they had an easy ride because there doesn't appear to have been any incisive questions coming from the audience and that, therefore, they were able to drive their own agenda. Some of those present, for instance the members of CAST, were meant to be representing the rest of us and they have failed. This kind of forum is a two-way process and it seems to me that the Charlton fans present have failed to step up to the plate. I won't be renewing my subscription to CAST.
Watch the video, and decide then. If we let you down, all I can say is the team did its best on the night under the circumstances of moving goalposts and the club conducting the meeting.1 -
I said in the meeting that a lot of fans who pitched up last night were hoping to hear about some kind of seminal change, there was a lot of investment, emotional or otherwise in that meeting, and that I thought we were being offered more of the same. I was pretty clumsy in making that point, but for what it is worth I don't think Katrien and co arrived at the meeting intent on changing things.Addickforlife said:
I have one question on the evening that hopefully you can answer.rikofold said:That's fair chaps, and as I say they're doing their job and dragging people to their channels and their advertisers. It was no doubt a naive decision borne of our insistence on no info embargo.
The key observation I'd make is that the context was lost in 140 characters, and it made it sound as if the fans were motionless whilst KM wheeled out some bullshit. The meeting really wasn't like that, although as usual words might have been chosen more carefully. We didn't let her views on the protest go unchallenged, for example, and I felt she did listen to Craig Norris and others making very strong points. The £9m transfer spend didn't go unchallenged. Her managers comment didn't go unchallenged. The question about JJ's goal was a joke and the reporter knew that.
The downside of it is that it will be the Twitter feed that's remembered, when there was more to the meeting - and that's really only given a skewed flavour of it.
But you reap what you sow, and if discontent and disharmony is the result then the club only have themselves to blame.
Did it sound like she is going to change anything about how the club is run?
As I said in an earlier comment, after reading yours, Curb it's and Seths reports, it sounds like that while fans did challenge her, she still believes in the nonsense she is sprouting, and nothing will actually change except maybe a few more meetings with a carefully picked bunch of people.
Look forward to hearing what you think may come of it.
It is possible that viewpoints were shifted as a result of the meeting, but probably a faint possibility, and I'm not holding my breath.
It is also possible that the meeting was the start of a slow slog towards something better, I suppose I am naive enough to hope so based on the 'journey of 1000 miles' principle.
My other hope is that Euromillions wasn't won last night, so I can win it on Friday and take over the club.
4 -
Though they might not have reported last night in the way some of us would, these journos are potential allies further down the line. Might be wise not to cut our nose off in that regards14
-
Seems that people that were there have a different take on the way that the meeting went so I guess we should wait and see the video and hear from Curb_It and Rikofold more fully before covering old ground. I would assume that we can take it as fact that the quotes tweeted by the press were just that though and that in itself presents issues.
Last night was a good opportunity for KM and RM to hold their hands up to their mistakes, emphasise that they are trying to do the right thing and genuinely re-engage with fans, it does seem that even if there were some assurances and dialogue, the quotes on the key points will likely have further alienated the fan base.
Continuing to back their crazy managerial appointments, insisting on things that we know not to be true (and therefore insinuating that the likes of Powell and Dyer are speaking untruths), touting their player spending like we should be pleased that they are spunking money on the likes of Polish Pete and Naby Sarr (OK, jury's out on the second one, he was OK against Sheff Wed) and as Dazzler (I think) pointed out above, if spending has increased so much without a correlated upturn in results, then they are still getting it wrong. Though of course they conveniently failed to net the spending with the income from player sales. Ludicrously dismissing their constant appointment of Belgian or Belgium based staff as football being a global game. These points and more serve only to undermine them.
It does also seem that KM used it as a platform to hit back at the fans that attended the protest, which was a peaceful and uneventful affair for 99% of the 2% there (that means 0.02% would have been troublemakers - though that's a made up number like the other ones).
That leaves a couple of idiots that overstepped the mark with personal insults- I'm sure they would ask us not to judge them only on Ulien-Thuram and likewise they seem to have conveyed a negative message about Charlton fans based on an extremely small proportion. I don't agree with personally abusing KM at all, not only do we hand her cards to play if we do so but it's a morally wrong thing to do, I'm always against personal abuse. I didn't like her being shouted at on the train and though I didn't actually see or hear it, I don't like the personal abuse that was handed out to her on Saturday.
Neither though did I particularly like the little press campaign that she went on after the train incident nor the one that seems to be playing out here. Headlines such as 'I've had frightening abuse from Charlton fans...but I love leading role'. Soundbites such as 'when I got off of the train, people were screaming in my face...I know not all Charlton fans are like this but this was not nice' (separate articles by the way). There is an insinuation left hanging there. 'Not all Charlton fans are like this'. So what, most are? Some are? Very very very few are?
I'm not sure what she was hoping to achieve with this, it would never do anything for the club, it was pure personal promotion. It certainly doesn't help reinforce the feeling of us being a community club that she is hoping will provide the USP that attracts floating fans here rather than to West Ham.
Even last night's press release about the Q&A started with 'Despite a good win against Sheffield Wednesday, the board acknowledges that fans still have a number of concerns...'. Bloody fans, we won last weekend, what are they moaning about now? Yes, we did win against Sheffield Wednesday, it was our first in thirteen games. You can't keep starting and stopping the clock at points of your choosing. The underlying tone of communication with the fans and about the fans is that they are a problem to be dealt with. Unless or until that changes, this will never work.
I've no authority to speak for or tell anyone what to do but I only hope that Charlton fans remember who they are in coming weeks and do things in the right way, no personal insults, no bullying, just a clear and dignified demonstration of what happens when you push the fanbase away from the club.29 -
She was wearing a cream blouse! Jesus didn't think to include that in my notes.
Actually I just read some back. Not that clear I think the video will be best but who the hell is going to listen to 1.50 mins! It was loooong! Just typing up some scribble now. But I did stop taking notes at points im afraid. These notes are written and some from memory, I will try not to put words in people's mouths.
Top table was Chris Parkes, R Murray, K Meire, JJ and Steve Avory. Im afraid i didnt get the other guy's name who i believe is a business manager of some part. Sorry.
We started by an introduction from KM and what she wanted to achieve tonight. She wanted to state that Charlton Athletic is a team of people, not just run by one person overseas. We are here to talk about the future.
The criticism is that it is unclear what is the strategy.. So we then had a slideshow with a brief overview of steps they have taken.
Key objectives:
The high level overview is a competitive championship team with Premier League ambition.
Grow attendance to 20k.
The Academy and the Community.
What they have done:
2014 increased wages by 40%.
Spent 9m on incoming transfers.
Players are now on longer contracts. They have 25 players and only 5 due to expire soon... Johnnie being one of them I think she said. We all smile at poor Johnnie. Poor bastard being dragged along.
Sign our academy players into contracts. No more Poyet scenarios will happen.
Growing attendances:
They are investing 4.5 million in the Valley.
Fan Engagement. Family zone, sofa, new lounge.
Affordable football.
And to have open and constructive dialogue.
The Academy is the heart of our operations.
Rich Pemberton starts:
He states that there is a great dissatisfaction of how things are going. The fans want to enter into a dialogue with you. We wanted to have an independent moderator here tonight. [Who is the chair? KM answers that she is.] We hope that we can get a chance to have an open discussion.
Some of the fans here tonight have collaborated together to go through a number of different themes.
Rich also states somewhere that we had just wanted the meeting with RM/KM so most of the questions would be directed at these two. Or similar words.
Rich asks RM/KM to articulate what they think the fans main issues are.
Fans are not clear what the strategy is. Results don't help.
RM: I know fans feel so differently to each other. Tell us what your issues are?
RP: We are asking you.
RM: A business which doesn't eat money. This academy is something I've dreamt about in 25 years.
Bit of a gap here and the video will fill in as I was to ask a question. My question was about their strategy for the development of the club one that we can all buy into but they had off footed me a bit with their presentation. As she said she had already covered it in the presentation but then reiterated some of the similar points.
Seth: Results have been very disappointing since RD turned up. We are no better off since he arrived. Can you explain the failure? Why should we buy into that?
We managed to stay up... [Christ my notes are shit sorry guys as I haven't written who said that and why! Im going to get pelters I can tell].
RM: Whether Luzon lost the plot I don't know. We have a better squad now. I think foreign squads take time to adjust. Maybe we played a better system? (assume he means Saturday). Johnnie will confirm championship the most difficult league.
17 -
Journalists obviously have an angle to create, but they can only work with what is said by Katrien. Some of the quotes, even allowing for the fact they had no context, were gobsmacking in a number of ways.
1 -
Absolutely, let's see the video and then see where we all are.Airman Brown said:
Part of the problem is that none of the reporters will have had much clue who else was in the room other than Meire, Jackson and Murray, and therefore little background. It's inevitable that what they say is the story. The rest is the nature of Twitter.PragueAddick said:
Well, as you also posted , you were not there and are waiting to see the video. Those there are now reporting that many of the questions which they had pre-planned were in fact asked. That is not apparent from the 'reporting". People on the thread last night were driven to rage because they had the impression that the questions were not being asked and the club was running a pre-scripted whitewash.Rothko said:I thought the journalist in the room did a good job, be it the Shopper, or Brad Pinard who I thought reported the whole thing exceptionally well.
We will see the video. If it turns out to give a significantly different impression to that gained from the tweets last night, then at least some of our endless store of anger should be directed at the Shopper and Mr Pinard. I've already tweeted the Shopper.
Of course wise uncle @AFKABartram will be shaking his head this morning, that he was warning people nearly twice his age last night to beware of tweets and wait for a considered report from the meeting. It may be that us older ones are more vulnerable to this mistake because we still believe that something with the name of a known media outlet such as the Shopper is published,even as a Tweet, it must be something near a true account of what they re observing.
@Redmidland would have put them to shame.
Toby Porter has now followed the Shopper in reporting the shitstorm. It's delusional to imagine they are all three part of a conspiracy of unprofessionalism - just as it is unwise to take the account of those caught up in the moment on the fan side as objective truth either. It will look different again on a video. Perspective is all.
I've got my own "focus group" (in my head) of respected CL posters whose opinions I respect for being reasonable, thoughtful, and not the type to rush to the barricades. Last night, based on the tweets, they were absolutely fuming. If they see the video and say "hang on, thats a bit different to what I understood", then I will personally be going back to those guys from the press. After all we criticise our players and management freely, despite not having done the job ourselves, why should the journalists not be subject to the same scrutiny?
All that said, the message is the key thing, not the messenger. You don't need to remind me.
0 -
The questions are only important if the other party are engaging in a dialogue and give an honest insight.
The words she spoke and reported say it all. It's absurd to put blame on the audience for what KM said. Whst questions would have got an admission of failure? She is clearly fighting for her job.
The Billy big bollocks on here wanting a scene would have just given KM what she wanted, to turn the debate on us rather than her.5 -
Ah the voice of reason again. I guess you are right.AFKABartram said:Though they might not have reported last night in the way some of us would, these journos are potential allies further down the line. Might be wise not to cut our nose off in that regards
0 -
Yeh I agree with that @Dippenhall
I think it's unfair to blame those who attended. I've no doubt the fans representatives aren't in it for the personal promotion, those I've met did not seem at all like that to me.
(that doesn't apply to the one comment/question that seems to have been a deliberate plant by the Club management which was totally out of order, shame on that man, you know who you are)
I find it poignant that KM made such an issue about chairing the meeting when it's common knowledge that any meeting focused on achieving mediation needs to be chaired by someone who is not one of the main protagonists. Gosh she is so image conscious/power hungry, her lack of self awareness knows no bounds.0 -
Sponsored links:
-
Part 2.
JJ; this is the best squad I've been involved in. We have been desperately unlucky with injuries and it just hasn't stood up. Having to play more football due to the injuries the players have found it tough. there is a whole new freshness from CF. He has involved me a lot more.
RichP: Nigel's question re recruitment (which I obviously missed) has the coaching recruitment been successful?
KM: There are procedures in place. CF will be given the chances he deserves.
Ian W: Is there an objection to bringing in an English manager?
KM: No. Criteria is a manager good with working with a young squad.
RM: We decided something had to be done quickly. CF had experience of Charlton and felt he was experienced to enough to come in. I think the most important relationship is between the owner and the manager. If the owner doesn't trust the manager there is no chance...
Fan: Are the plans to stay at the Valley?
KM: Early on we realised the Valley is a beautiful stadium. We are staying at the Valley. We have invested in it.
Paul N. Our Academy is great. So why did you sell Joe Gomez?
KM: I said to him he could go when the right opportunity came along. (Or similar).
RM: Agents. Even 12 year olds have agents. Agent told JG to sign the contract but he can move on. The biggest thing we offer to our Academy players is a direct route to the first team.
Fan: Where do CA come in Roland's plan?
KM: The clubs are all his children. We are all equal.
RM: We have a bigger budget.
KM: But also bigger debts.
Craig P: The talk on recruitment of players is that it is based on data analysis.
KM: We try to talk to the players but data analysis is a big part used. [not exact wording].
Craig P: How does the scouting work.
KM: Scouting is done by Mark Stow. We also have scouts in Belgium and Hungary and we use our network scouts.
Ian W: We are told that Chris Powell was dismissed for failure to play the network players. Can you assure us that our managers are allowed to pick the side?
KM: Any coach is allowed to pick the side. I can assure you.
Ian W: Who is making the decisions on signings?
KM: After the season ends a list is drawn up by the scout. Then the head coach says yes or no then I deal wit the contract.
[please remember I have missed a few bits here]
21 -
Thanks @Curb_It. Perhaps she could take some advice and learnings from some of the fans she's now so keen to create a dialogue with for one of her main objectives. @Airman Brown springs to mind for the 'Grow attendance to 20k' target. Wasn't it 40,000 once upon a time...4
-
got to take a break for a few mins fr work and then a meeting at 11 but I will try and get a further installment in before 11...7
-
Where be this video?0
-
thanks @Curb_It0
-
True but not all of us are the CEO of a championship club where a poor judgement call on something cab effect thousands of people.Simonsen said:
None of us are....cafc999 said:
I too support Karel but katrien is not as innocent as she appears.scabbyhorse said:
She just gets told what to do, its not her money. Karel will be manager and i will give him my support until i see otherwise.cafc999 said:
People are fed up because she keeps telling lies.scabbyhorse said:
Wether you like it or not the majority of fans are only angry because of our recent results and the lack of money what they think should be invested in the first team.Chrissy\\\'s Army!! said:
Fuck sake. That statement makes me angrier than I've been throughout her entire reign here. What a piece of work she is!Callumcafc said:
Can i also point out that the majority of our fan base do not even use or read CL or ITTV so that would make us the minority.
If carol wins the next 6 games on the trot ( doubtful i know ) then that gathering on saturday will then become one man and his dog.
Lastly what the fuck did you expect her to say? Because whatever she said was always going to be shot down in flames and no i am not defending her or Roly but until someone can find a buyer who is prepared to lose 7 million a year..............
Let's be honest, do you not think that Karel is not going to be the next permanent manager..??
Some of the spin on spouted out tonight is embarrassing to say at least0 -
-
Can I make a suggestion to @Curb_It or @AFKABartram
Could all of Brenda's meeting notes be amalgamated into one post once done so that it easier to read the whole lot in one go? Rather than having to trawl through posts....0 -
Is there anyway that some of these tweets were hacked and put out there by a Millwall fan to wind the Charlton fans up?0
![[Deleted User]](https://forum.charltonlife.com/applications/dashboard/design/images/defaulticon.png)
