Brilliant race today dominated by strategy. Remembered why I love the sport.
As much as I love seeing British drivers win & do well, I’ve got a lot of time for Max Verstappen. Will surely be a WC before too long.
Depends how good the car is.....Red Bull are still some way behind Mercedes.
Yeah, good point but if he gets the right drive, would expect him to do well.
Mercedes are dominating now but these things do tend to go in cycles. McLaren, Ferrari, Williams, Red Bull, they’ve all been untouchable in recent times.
Brilliant race today dominated by strategy. Remembered why I love the sport.
As much as I love seeing British drivers win & do well, I’ve got a lot of time for Max Verstappen. Will surely be a WC before too long.
Depends how good the car is.....Red Bull are still some way behind Mercedes.
Yeah, good point but if he gets the right drive, would expect him to do well.
Mercedes are dominating now but these things do tend to go in cycles. McLaren, Ferrari, Williams, Red Bull, they’ve all been untouchable in recent times.
I would say that if Max keeps driving as well as we’ve seen he can, then unless Red Bull themselves become the dominant force, Max moving to whoever is the dominant force is inevitable. He’s quickly become THE hot property in the driver market.
The only thing that might let him down is luck - remember, when Hamilton moved to Mercedes, it wasn’t obvious that they would become so dominant. He took a punt on them and it paid off. Max may have to also take a gamble on a team - maybe his recent three year deal with Red Bull is that gamble?
Brilliant race today dominated by strategy. Remembered why I love the sport.
As much as I love seeing British drivers win & do well, I’ve got a lot of time for Max Verstappen. Will surely be a WC before too long.
Depends how good the car is.....Red Bull are still some way behind Mercedes.
Yeah, good point but if he gets the right drive, would expect him to do well.
Mercedes are dominating now but these things do tend to go in cycles. McLaren, Ferrari, Williams, Red Bull, they’ve all been untouchable in recent times.
I would say that if Max keeps driving as well as we’ve seen he can, then unless Red Bull themselves become the dominant force, Max moving to whoever is the dominant force is inevitable. He’s quickly become THE hot property in the driver market.
The only thing that might let him down is luck - remember, when Hamilton moved to Mercedes, it wasn’t obvious that they would become so dominant. He took a punt on them and it paid off. Max may have to also take a gamble on a team - maybe his recent three year deal with Red Bull is that gamble?
It’s so difficult to predict. At least he’s got age on his side though.
The Dutch fans would go mental if he wins. I used to go to Le Mans every year and the amount of support that Jan Lammers got was crazy. The race always took place when the Euros or WC was on and spent a very enjoyable night in the Tete Rouge bar with them when they won a game one year (can’t remember what year, or who it was against)
I’ve been to Soa for the Belgian GP a couple Od times in the last four years and the Dutch support for verstappen there is incredible. While swathes of trackside is orange and when he broke down early in the GP maybe three years ago about half of them all immediately left.
Once Hamilton retires, Verstappen will have his pick of the teams to drive for. There’s a number of exciting young drivers in the field at the moment but he looks to have a bit of an edge on all of them. I haven’t quite worked out if I like him yet, he was a bit of a prick when he first broke through, but he was literally a teenager and I was probably a prick when I was 17 as well. As he matures he’s getting easier to like and there is no doubting his talent, he’s getting an awful lot out of an imperfect Red Bull car.
IMHO Verstappen and Hamilton in the same team wouldn’t work.......I believe I’m right in saying the chemistry between them has never been particularly great. So we can count that one out. As things stand, unless he gets a drive in a Mercedes he (or any one else come to that) will not get so much as a sniff. Although it’s a frustrating gig for Bottas, I can’t see him being interested in moving on elsewhere anytime soon. My guess is Verstappen will never become World Champion as he will never get to drive a Mercedes.
IMHO Verstappen and Hamilton in the same team wouldn’t work.......I believe I’m right in saying the chemistry between them has never been particularly great. So we can count that one out. As things stand, unless he gets a drive in a Mercedes he (or any one else come to that) will not get so much as a sniff. Although it’s a frustrating gig for Bottas, I can’t see him being interested in moving on elsewhere anytime soon. My guess is Verstappen will never become World Champion as he will never get to drive a Mercedes.
Verstappen is only 22. Hamilton is 35.
Mercedes are not going to be dominant for another 13 years. Verstappen will be wc at some point
I don't think Verstappen to Mercedes is a given when Hamilton retires though. I think George Russell is good enough to step up and will have enough experience by then.
There will also be a big fight to sign Lando Norris if McLaren don't have a championship worthy car when the new regs come in
Verstappen will have his pick of teams. Ferrari will be looking at him I am sure. I think there is a possibility that Hamilton may want to end his career at Ferrari and then it would open up Mercedes. But Red Bull probably have the best design team so it is possible he may stay there.
Interesting race yesterday. Red Bull took a risk on tyres at Q2 and it gave them a tactical advantage in the race. It was a race where tyres were very important. That is not to diminish the car or Verstappen, both deserve the highest praise, but I don't think Hamilton will be too worried about the result. He gained 7 more points over Bottas and maintained his 30 point lead.
As for the drivers, they will be paranoid about catching Covid as it could mean they could miss a few races that would be a disaster, so you would expect every precaution. I think we are ultimately going to have 16 races this season due to TV contract money so that is 11 more. It is going to be challenging to get the 16 in so we shouldn't expect more than that.
The only thing that might stop a Max to Ferrari move is if one of their young drivers in F2 turns out to be another Leclerc type talent that they almost have to promote to the main squad , would be a shame for Carlos if that happened however.
not a fan of Barcelona as a track generally , tends to be a bit dull as they have so much testing data from there . Hopefully pirelli find a way to spice it up a bit with the tyres.
Ferrari need to change a hell of a lot about their set-up if they're going to attract the likes of Hamilton and Verstappen, or indeed, get it right with the new regs. If they were still competing I could absolutely see Hamilton going there for his last hurrah. But no way would he do it on current form.
I must admit, I think Leclerc is a bit overated. Not saying he isn't a good driver, but he isn't a Hamilton or Verstappen talent or even close. Russell is doing as good a job as anybody would do in a WIlliams, but needs an opportunity to shine against a strong team mate. In terms of Norris, he has stepped up to be slightly better than Sainz this season whereas he was inferior last season. They are pretty close though and we have to factor in that Sainz has got a Ferrari drive but it still is a bit up in the air how good he will be. He is going to be good, but a Verstappen or Hamilton talent? Maybe, but maybe not.
I must admit, I think Leclerc is a bit overated. Not saying he isn't a good driver, but he isn't a Hamilton or Verstappen talent or even close. Russell is doing as good a job as anybody would do in a WIlliams, but needs an opportunity to shine against a strong team mate. In terms of Norris, he has stepped up to be slightly better than Sainz this season whereas he was inferior last season. They are pretty close though and we have to factor in that Sainz has got a Ferrari drive but it still is a bit up in the air how good he will be. He is going to be good, but a Verstappen or Hamilton talent? Maybe, but maybe not.
Leclerc is literally dragging that Ferrari around to podiums and 4th placed finishes and you think he's overrated? And then you compare him to the 2 generational talents of recent times in Hamilton and Verstappen to back that up, weird. He might not be as good as those 2 drivers, but Mika Häkkinen wasn't as good as Schumacher, didn't stop him from winning 2 WDCs did it, was he overrated too?
Ok, we shall see how many world titles Leclerc wins. I predict none. I think there are a couple of greats racing today, Hamilton and Verstappen, and I am looking at potential greats coming through and don't see Leclerc as one of them. Not saying he isn't a good driver, but for me the bar is very high.
Why shouldn't I compare him to those two. They are the drivers to beat.
Ok, we shall see how many world titles Leclerc wins. I predict none. I think there are a couple of greats racing today, Hamilton and Verstappen, and I am looking at potential greats coming through and don't see Leclerc as one of them. Not saying he isn't a good driver, but for me the bar is very high.
Why shouldn't I compare him to those two. They are the drivers to beat.
There is only one great racing at the moment and that is Lewis. Max may well turn out to be a great (imo very likely) but at the moment he still has to prove it. By the way, Lewis only gained 4 points on Bottas yesterday; 3 points for the difference between 2nd and 3rd and one point for fastest lap.
Yes, to be fair, Max is a potential great. Yes, my error with the points. I thought Schumacher's achievements would be very hard to beat, but Hamilton is looking very likely to beat most, if not all of them. If Hamilton manages 8 titles, which is more than possible, that is 8 years worth to draw, 9 to beat him!!!!! It isn't enough to be the best driver, you need the car too.
Verstappen is 22 so has the time, but even for somebody of his talent, it is a big ask.
Ok, we shall see how many world titles Leclerc wins. I predict none. I think there are a couple of greats racing today, Hamilton and Verstappen, and I am looking at potential greats coming through and don't see Leclerc as one of them. Not saying he isn't a good driver, but for me the bar is very high.
Why shouldn't I compare him to those two. They are the drivers to beat.
C'mon, the guy is 22. He has years and years of racing left. F1 will be dominated by him and Max over that time like the last 10 years has been dominated by Lewis and Seb.
To say he won't win a championship because Ferrari have an awful car and are making ridiculous strategy calls at the moment is crazy.
It is my opinion. I think he has to beat Verstappen and a new wave of drivers yet to come. Norris could well be one of them. And in the meantime, Hamilton too possibly for another three seasons.
I must admit, I think Leclerc is a bit overated. Not saying he isn't a good driver, but he isn't a Hamilton or Verstappen talent or even close. Russell is doing as good a job as anybody would do in a WIlliams, but needs an opportunity to shine against a strong team mate. In terms of Norris, he has stepped up to be slightly better than Sainz this season whereas he was inferior last season. They are pretty close though and we have to factor in that Sainz has got a Ferrari drive but it still is a bit up in the air how good he will be. He is going to be good, but a Verstappen or Hamilton talent? Maybe, but maybe not.
Leclerc is literally dragging that Ferrari around to podiums and 4th placed finishes and you think he's overrated? And then you compare him to the 2 generational talents of recent times in Hamilton and Verstappen to back that up, weird. He might not be as good as those 2 drivers, but Mika Häkkinen wasn't as good as Schumacher, didn't stop him from winning 2 WDCs did it, was he overrated too?
I've seen blokes pushing F1 cars, but never 'literally' dragging them....
My view on Leclerc is that his strength is getting the most out of a weak car. He can cope with issues like oversteer or poor balance that can really hurt overall confidence and lap time performance. This is why he is looking a lot better than Vettel at the moment. But if Ferrari transform the car into less of a pig, I think we will see Vettel coming back at him and beating him.
If the car is right, Vettel is quick. Possibly on his day quicker than Hamilton. The problem is, it has to be on his day and Hamilton can get the best out of a car with issues as well as being quick and is a master at race craft which is a weakness for Vettel.
Yes, I would be interested to see how that goes. But Sainz is very much in the unproven category.
Probably for me just shades the Ricciardo Vs Norris fight next season which if McLaren have a strong car again for that Mercedes engine could be a real podium contender.
My view on Leclerc is that his strength is getting the most out of a weak car. He can cope with issues like oversteer or poor balance that can really hurt overall confidence and lap time performance. This is why he is looking a lot better than Vettel at the moment. But if Ferrari transform the car into less of a pig, I think we will see Vettel coming back at him and beating him.
If the car is right, Vettel is quick. Possibly on his day quicker than Hamilton. The problem is, it has to be on his day and Hamilton can get the best out of a car with issues as well as being quick and is a master at race craft which is a weakness for Vettel.
I agree with some of this, particularly LeClerc’s strengths. A bit of a sidetrack here, but bear with me...
My issue with Vettel is that he is exhibit A when people criticise the sport as being simply “who’s got the best car” rather than “who’s the best driver.“ It’s a criticism that will keep being repeated because, if we’re honest, there is some truth in it, but never was it more true than during Vettel’s reign. It may seem crazy to say it when he’s won the title 4 times, but he’s just not that good a driver. Don’t get me wrong, anyone who gets an f1 drive is by default a good driver and Vettel is very, very capable, but some are just better than others and Vettel is not at the top table. Vettel is fast, there’s no doubt about that, he’s shown he can qualify well and, credit where it’s due, he was always good at defending his lead once he got to the front. But there’s more to f1 driving than that and he’s only ever performed consistently well in races when there’s no pressure and his car is better than the rest.
In his 4 championships, his teammate was Mark Webber, a classic “support” driver who was certainly not the best driver on the circuit and was never going to be a challenger, especially as Red Bull were pretty blatant in the favouritism they showed Vettel. Also, in two of those championships, Alonso very nearly beat him, despite being in a Ferrari that was vastly inferior to Vettel’s Red Bull at the time.
He’s also something of a diva and a bit of a spoilt brat - we saw this repeatedly last year, but this season is also a case in point - he’s being totally unprofessional, throwing his toys out the pram and throwing his team under the bus for everything that goes wrong. Admittedly, they’ve made a pig’s ear of the season as a team, but he’s refusing to take any responsibility himself. This in itself doesn’t make him a bad driver, but it does illustrate how he crumbles under pressure. Now, you could argue that Schumacher and Hamilton also benefited from being in the dominant car, but those two have repeatedly shown that they were/are incredibly good drivers in a whole range of scenarios. They also won titles with 2 different teams.
The point of this critique of Vettel is that the number of drivers titles you win is no guarantee of how good a driver you are. Only 3 drivers have ever won more titles than Vettel, but I wouldn’t even put him in my top 10 drivers since I started watching in the early eighties.
Verstappen is now starting to show how classy a driver he is. He’s already better than Vettel. IMO, but he hasn’t won anything yet. As for LeClerc, I think Ferrari have pretty much nailed him down as their poster boy for the next 5-10 years unless he ends up flattering to deceive. He managed to compete with and outperform Vettel last year, which is a very promising start and caused Ferrari to adjust their approach to giving Vettel preferential treatment, (which also contributed to some of the Vettel meltdowns last year!)
Overall though, with LeClerc and the likes of Norris and Russell - it’s just too early - I get the sense that they’re not quite on Verstappen’s level, but drivers mature and can improve hugely, as Max has shown. We’ll find out in the next couple of years, I guess!
My view on Leclerc is that his strength is getting the most out of a weak car. He can cope with issues like oversteer or poor balance that can really hurt overall confidence and lap time performance. This is why he is looking a lot better than Vettel at the moment. But if Ferrari transform the car into less of a pig, I think we will see Vettel coming back at him and beating him.
If the car is right, Vettel is quick. Possibly on his day quicker than Hamilton. The problem is, it has to be on his day and Hamilton can get the best out of a car with issues as well as being quick and is a master at race craft which is a weakness for Vettel.
I agree with some of this, particularly LeClerc’s strengths. A bit of a sidetrack here, but bear with me...
My issue with Vettel is that he is exhibit A when people criticise the sport as being simply “who’s got the best car” rather than “who’s the best driver.“ It’s a criticism that will keep being repeated because, if we’re honest, there is some truth in it, but never was it more true than during Vettel’s reign. It may seem crazy to say it when he’s won the title 4 times, but he’s just not that good a driver. Don’t get me wrong, anyone who gets an f1 drive is by default a good driver and Vettel is very, very capable, but some are just better than others and Vettel is not at the top table. Vettel is fast, there’s no doubt about that, he’s shown he can qualify well and, credit where it’s due, he was always good at defending his lead once he got to the front. But there’s more to f1 driving than that and he’s only ever performed consistently well in races when there’s no pressure and his car is better than the rest.
In his 4 championships, his teammate was Mark Webber, a classic “support” driver who was certainly not the best driver on the circuit and was never going to be a challenger, especially as Red Bull were pretty blatant in the favouritism they showed Vettel. Also, in two of those championships, Alonso very nearly beat him, despite being in a Ferrari that was vastly inferior to Vettel’s Red Bull at the time.
He’s also something of a diva and a bit of a spoilt brat - we saw this repeatedly last year, but this season is also a case in point - he’s being totally unprofessional, throwing his toys out the pram and throwing his team under the bus for everything that goes wrong. Admittedly, they’ve made a pig’s ear of the season as a team, but he’s refusing to take any responsibility himself. This in itself doesn’t make him a bad driver, but it does illustrate how he crumbles under pressure. Now, you could argue that Schumacher and Hamilton also benefited from being in the dominant car, but those two have repeatedly shown that they were/are incredibly good drivers in a whole range of scenarios. They also won titles with 2 different teams.
The point of this critique of Vettel is that the number of drivers titles you win is no guarantee of how good a driver you are. Only 3 drivers have ever won more titles than Vettel, but I wouldn’t even put him in my top 10 drivers since I started watching in the early eighties.
Verstappen is now starting to show how classy a driver he is. He’s already better than Vettel. IMO, but he hasn’t won anything yet. As for LeClerc, I think Ferrari have pretty much nailed him down as their poster boy for the next 5-10 years unless he ends up flattering to deceive. He managed to compete with and outperform Vettel last year, which is a very promising start and caused Ferrari to adjust their approach to giving Vettel preferential treatment, (which also contributed to some of the Vettel meltdowns last year!)
Overall though, with LeClerc and the likes of Norris and Russell - it’s just too early - I get the sense that they’re not quite on Verstappen’s level, but drivers mature and can improve hugely, as Max has shown. We’ll find out in the next couple of years, I guess!
Yes, I don't think we see things that differently. A team like Ferrari only nail you down as long as it suits them. They will drop you when something better comes along. I don't think Vettel is a great driver either, just a fast one. A very fast one. But everything has to be alligned for him. But when it is, he can drive as fast as anybody. There are lots of variables, conditions, issues with the car, other cars that Hamilton is at the top or close to the top in. Allied to that, he is fast and has the capacity to find a lap that verges on the impossible. Hamilton's superiority is in his flexibility and the number of variables he is strong in. I think we can say similar with Verstappen.
Whilst team mates are not going to find it easy to get on, Hamilton annoys them because he is good. But there is respect from them for him. Schumacher wanted them to be second class. He demanded they were second class. Hamilton invites them to beat him with equal equipment.
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Mercedes are dominating now but these things do tend to go in cycles. McLaren, Ferrari, Williams, Red Bull, they’ve all been untouchable in recent times.
The only thing that might let him down is luck - remember, when Hamilton moved to Mercedes, it wasn’t obvious that they would become so dominant. He took a punt on them and it paid off.
Max may have to also take a gamble on a team - maybe his recent three year deal with Red Bull is that gamble?
The Dutch fans would go mental if he wins. I used to go to Le Mans every year and the amount of support that Jan Lammers got was crazy. The race always took place when the Euros or WC was on and spent a very enjoyable night in the Tete Rouge bar with them when they won a game one year (can’t remember what year, or who it was against)
As things stand, unless he gets a drive in a Mercedes he (or any one else come to that) will not get so much as a sniff.
Although it’s a frustrating gig for Bottas, I can’t see him being interested in moving on elsewhere anytime soon.
My guess is Verstappen will never become World Champion as he will never get to drive a Mercedes.
Mercedes are not going to be dominant for another 13 years. Verstappen will be wc at some point
There will also be a big fight to sign Lando Norris if McLaren don't have a championship worthy car when the new regs come in
Interesting race yesterday. Red Bull took a risk on tyres at Q2 and it gave them a tactical advantage in the race. It was a race where tyres were very important. That is not to diminish the car or Verstappen, both deserve the highest praise, but I don't think Hamilton will be too worried about the result. He gained 7 more points over Bottas and maintained his 30 point lead.
As for the drivers, they will be paranoid about catching Covid as it could mean they could miss a few races that would be a disaster, so you would expect every precaution. I think we are ultimately going to have 16 races this season due to TV contract money so that is 11 more. It is going to be challenging to get the 16 in so we shouldn't expect more than that.
not a fan of Barcelona as a track generally , tends to be a bit dull as they have so much testing data from there . Hopefully pirelli find a way to spice it up a bit with the tyres.
Why shouldn't I compare him to those two. They are the drivers to beat.
Max may well turn out to be a great (imo very likely) but at the moment he still has to prove it.
By the way, Lewis only gained 4 points on Bottas yesterday; 3 points for the difference between 2nd and 3rd and one point for fastest lap.
Verstappen is 22 so has the time, but even for somebody of his talent, it is a big ask.
To say he won't win a championship because Ferrari have an awful car and are making ridiculous strategy calls at the moment is crazy.
If the car is right, Vettel is quick. Possibly on his day quicker than Hamilton. The problem is, it has to be on his day and Hamilton can get the best out of a car with issues as well as being quick and is a master at race craft which is a weakness for Vettel.
My issue with Vettel is that he is exhibit A when people criticise the sport as being simply “who’s got the best car” rather than “who’s the best driver.“ It’s a criticism that will keep being repeated because, if we’re honest, there is some truth in it, but never was it more true than during Vettel’s reign.
It may seem crazy to say it when he’s won the title 4 times, but he’s just not that good a driver. Don’t get me wrong, anyone who gets an f1 drive is by default a good driver and Vettel is very, very capable, but some are just better than others and Vettel is not at the top table.
Vettel is fast, there’s no doubt about that, he’s shown he can qualify well and, credit where it’s due, he was always good at defending his lead once he got to the front. But there’s more to f1 driving than that and he’s only ever performed consistently well in races when there’s no pressure and his car is better than the rest.
Now, you could argue that Schumacher and Hamilton also benefited from being in the dominant car, but those two have repeatedly shown that they were/are incredibly good drivers in a whole range of scenarios. They also won titles with 2 different teams.
The point of this critique of Vettel is that the number of drivers titles you win is no guarantee of how good a driver you are. Only 3 drivers have ever won more titles than Vettel, but I wouldn’t even put him in my top 10 drivers since I started watching in the early eighties.
As for LeClerc, I think Ferrari have pretty much nailed him down as their poster boy for the next 5-10 years unless he ends up flattering to deceive. He managed to compete with and outperform Vettel last year, which is a very promising start and caused Ferrari to adjust their approach to giving Vettel preferential treatment, (which also contributed to some of the Vettel meltdowns last year!)
Whilst team mates are not going to find it easy to get on, Hamilton annoys them because he is good. But there is respect from them for him. Schumacher wanted them to be second class. He demanded they were second class. Hamilton invites them to beat him with equal equipment.