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Anyone at all still believe in RD and the network

13

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  • I liked a lot of the signings and it has been bloody annoying that virtually all have been injured.
    The ones that have er underperformed seem as fit as butchers dogs. A friend of mine said that when they get injured at Charlton they seem to be out for ten months.
    I dont like RD but I am wary of pissing him off to much. The investment in the academy will be significant. Ulterior motive.....god knows. I have been left confused by the whole strategy of the club. I really do not know what to think.
  • Far crazier than we realise?
    I have a very vivid imagination.
  • The success of the euro-scouts has been shockingly low, and that's where the whole thing falls down.

    We don't know that though. As some said of Chapple, have they recommended good players but Roland has said no?

    The more experienced signings have been good enough, JBG, Bulot, Buyens and from what we've seen so far of Bauer, Kashi and Makienok.

    I expect they're also the more expensive ones.

    Ba, Sarr, Ceballos and McAleny (not from Europe I know) are all in their early 20s but lack first team experience at any level. Perhaps Sarr wasn't cheap but I can't imagine the others are are costing as much as the first group I mentioned.
  • Oakster said:


    So I'd like RD to get a proper manager in next time, but not to sack Luzon as he is very much in credit.

    Well constructed argument Nick but his record is increasingly shocking. 3 wins in the last 19 league games !!! Any credit for the post Peters mini bounce has well and truly dried up surely! I get the impression he is a one trick pony and bouncing around on the touch line like a bug eyed loon obviously only gets a team so far.

    blimey, didn't realise it was that bad. Can't blame a record like that all on injuries.

  • It might also be something to consider that Luzon may be and may have been for some time, an influencer in the choice of players certainly at the upper levels of the D network. Hence he was kept on the payroll
  • Seth,
    A very good post mate.
  • seth plum said:

    Far crazier than we realise?
    I have a very vivid imagination.

    We know ;0)

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  • edited October 2015
    One example of the Esoteric Roland Duchatelet:

    Frederic Bulot post African nations proved that he was a good Championship player. We finally had the player who gave us the balance on the left and had the best first touch at the club,plus could chip in with a couple of goals, was only 24 and enjoyed playing for CAFC. So this would be one deal we could get across the line before the Sale of Standard ? Did the right side of the brain know what the left side was doing ?

    In Roland's Parallel universe of Tax shifts and sacking Civil servants, is a man who has no empathy with people. RD knows about capital investment unlike Goldberg when he paid 22 million to Ron Noades and didn't own a blade of grass of Selhurst or the training ground.

    Whether RD is here for the long term or a ephemeral visit,
    who can tell ?

    Duchatelet see's himself as a Alan Turing Figure ?

    The genius who cracked the Nazi code.

    The Charlton Enigma may take longer to crack !


  • edited October 2015

    I can see the many good things RD has done even if that is without the rose coloured spectacles that some seem to share.

    As NSS says let's see how we do when everyone is fit.

    Problem is that no sooner do Mak and JJ return then JBG and Kashi are out and the Centre halves have both been banned already, AD now twice.

    That isn't bad luck, it's bad planning. Anyone willing to look could see the squad was too thin, too inexperienced to cope. And I and many others were saying in before a ball was kicked in anger. In fact we were saying it last season.

    I don't understand RDs plan or his willingness to spend big on cap ex but penny pinch on operational costs in SE7 and SE9.

    He did get rid of the spivs, he is rich and he makes his money honestly.

    But there is a huge and ever growing disconnect between him, his regime and the lifeblood of the club which is the fans.

    Why does it matter if everyone is fit as to how we judge RD? We should judge him on what's happening at our club - if he signs unfit and temperamental players then if they get injured or lack match form - it's his fault, not a sheer coincidence. Play with fire and get burnt. You start the season with a poor pre-season and the smallest squad in the league, what do you expect to happen?

    We all knew JJ was never going to play all games this season, we all know Makienok hadn't played many games last season, we all knew Henderson wasn't going to last the season - that Solly wouldn't play every game, that Reza wasn't/isn't the right mould for Championship (or fit).. I could go on..
  • edited October 2015
    I believe Roland is ensuring we have a better future... however he is ensuring it is done at a price to the present.

    We can't afford to be relegated, so that WILL not occur in my opinion he will spend that bit extra in January to cover us til summer.

    I think he's realised, this league is a bit different to any others he's owned clubs in.

    Sacking Luzon would be a silly decision as I think he has our players really trying to play nicer football and at times we see it works. The calls for Riga to return are a bit odd, but I can understand them.

    I wanted him to stay and I don't understand why we chose Bob Peetersh either.

    I do question if our plan is to follow something like this:

    2015/2016 Season

    Buy in some quality then plug some gaps with cheaper options and youth players.

    2016/2017 Season
    Buy in some more quality and sell the gap fillers utilise youth to fill gaps.

    2017/2018 Season
    Buy in some replacement quality for those that don't sign new contracts and plug gaps with youth players.

  • Oakster said:


    So I'd like RD to get a proper manager in next time, but not to sack Luzon as he is very much in credit.

    Well constructed argument Nick but his record is increasingly shocking. 3 wins in the last 19 league games !!! Any credit for the post Peters mini bounce has well and truly dried up surely! I get the impression he is a one trick pony and bouncing around on the touch line like a bug eyed loon obviously only gets a team so far.

    blimey, didn't realise it was that bad. Can't blame a record like that all on injuries.

    Lets extend it to 28 league games, seeing as 19 league games is a random number anyway.

    10 wins, 7 draws, 11 loses. Not that bad with 5 of those loses coming within an injury crisis.

    With a full side, GL is more than a capable Head Coach at this level.
    19 is not a random number it represents the start of this mostly losing streak - we one won of the last 7 last season. I accept he had a good start - but after that it's been appalling and shows no sign of improving.

    He can use the get out of jail card now with his injuries excuse - but if it doesn't pick up and this run continues - how much longer does he get?
  • So when did all the RD lovers decide to crawl out of the woodwork?
  • I understand the injuries aren't great and seem worse than you'd reasonably expect but I don't think at any stage this mythical , everyone fit , first 11 will play more than two games on the spin this season for us
    Is Luzon getting the players available to perform to anywhere near the maximum of their ability , are they busting a gut for him regularly
    I don't think they are
  • When's he bringing in a corner sofa?
  • The success of European managers is also very very low. Only Jean Tigana, Jolanovic and Martinez have succeeded in getting teams out of this division

    Roberto Martinez? It was Brendan Rodgers who eventually took Swansea to the Premier League so the success of European managers getting clubs out of this league is even lower than you pointed out. (Not saying it's totally impossible.)
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  • edited October 2015
    Oakster said:

    Oakster said:


    So I'd like RD to get a proper manager in next time, but not to sack Luzon as he is very much in credit.

    Well constructed argument Nick but his record is increasingly shocking. 3 wins in the last 19 league games !!! Any credit for the post Peters mini bounce has well and truly dried up surely! I get the impression he is a one trick pony and bouncing around on the touch line like a bug eyed loon obviously only gets a team so far.

    blimey, didn't realise it was that bad. Can't blame a record like that all on injuries.

    Lets extend it to 28 league games, seeing as 19 league games is a random number anyway.

    10 wins, 7 draws, 11 loses. Not that bad with 5 of those loses coming within an injury crisis.

    With a full side, GL is more than a capable Head Coach at this level.
    19 is not a random number it represents the start of this mostly losing streak - we one won of the last 7 last season. I accept he had a good start - but after that it's been appalling and shows no sign of improving.

    He can use the get out of jail card now with his injuries excuse - but if it doesn't pick up and this run continues - how much longer does he get?
    But it did shows signs of improving, as at the start of the season, with a fully fit squad, we only lost 1 of the first 6 league games against good sides plus winning both our league cup games comfortably.
  • I think you've got to look at this season only given the squad overhaul

    He did very well at the start and then a few injuries left us playing poor quality foriegn import backups and inexperienced youth who weren't ready.

    I personally dont think Luzon is anything special but the current form is only partially (30%?) his fault.
  • dizzee said:

    He's not the worst owner. Done a lot right and will hopefully prove us all wrong and take us to the Prem.

    He's not the worse owner=100 % Correct
    Done a lot right=20 % correct (the pitch)
    Take us to the Prem= 0% correct
    Prove us all wrong =100% correct
  • Oakster said:


    So I'd like RD to get a proper manager in next time, but not to sack Luzon as he is very much in credit.

    Well constructed argument Nick but his record is increasingly shocking. 3 wins in the last 19 league games !!! Any credit for the post Peters mini bounce has well and truly dried up surely! I get the impression he is a one trick pony and bouncing around on the touch line like a bug eyed loon obviously only gets a team so far.

    So you're just going to ignore the injuries he's had to contend with?

    Henderson's injury has been massively under-estimated by some fans and the club. He has a huge influence on the way we defend. 17 goals in the last 7 games says it all and i doubt any other manager or fan would select the defensive unit thats been playing much differently.

    KAG isn't ready to lead a line in the Championship either. He's a promising young talent but Big Mak/Vetokele/Watt are all better players that have an spells on the sideline for much of the last few months.

    I think calling Luzon a 'one trick pony' is harsh when he's not had anywhere near a full squad available to him for much of this season. It certainly wasn't one trick when we were playing with confidence at the beginning of the season.
    Henderson was among the subs on Tuesday, only an idiot would put a half fit player on the bench in a specialist position, therefore he must have been fit, so why didn't he start? I am not knocking Luzon overall, I don't see enough of us to make a fair judgment, but if Hendo is as crucial as you say Gaz (and I'm not disputing that) then it's a poor call to leave him on the bench for a relegation six pointer...
  • There is a leadership/ team-building concept called "Forming/Storming/Norming/Performing" - the theory being that these are the phases that groups/ teams go through. I first learnt about it in respect of research group moderation. It can apply to short-term, task-oriented teams or teams within companies. You probably see it in action on the Apprentice every week.

    Forming - people getting to know each other, sussing each other out
    Storming - an initial high energy period when everyone is trying to impress/ doing their best
    Norming - settling down, with people finding their roles/ positions - tensions likely to come to the surface at this point
    Performing - how the team really works and highly dependant on the outcome of the "Norming" phase - could become a brilliant, collaborative team or very dysfunctional

    At the start of a season or under a new manager, we often rush to judge on the basis of the Forming and Storming phases.

    Then the Norming goes pear-shaped and what are we left with?!

    The fifth stage of that model of Mourning. We do that very early.
  • Fumbluff said:

    There is a leadership/ team-building concept called "Forming/Storming/Norming/Performing" - the theory being that these are the phases that groups/ teams go through. I first learnt about it in respect of research group moderation. It can apply to short-term, task-oriented teams or teams within companies. You probably see it in action on the Apprentice every week.

    Forming - people getting to know each other, sussing each other out
    Storming - an initial high energy period when everyone is trying to impress/ doing their best
    Norming - settling down, with people finding their roles/ positions - tensions likely to come to the surface at this point
    Performing - how the team really works and highly dependant on the outcome of the "Norming" phase - could become a brilliant, collaborative team or very dysfunctional

    At the start of a season or under a new manager, we often rush to judge on the basis of the Forming and Storming phases.

    Then the Norming goes pear-shaped and what are we left with?!

    Yawning?
    Tuckman's stages in team development model.

    Tuckman added a 5th stage later which he called "mourning".

    Still use it with managers to identify where they are and what to to next.
  • Oakster said:


    So I'd like RD to get a proper manager in next time, but not to sack Luzon as he is very much in credit.

    Well constructed argument Nick but his record is increasingly shocking. 3 wins in the last 19 league games !!! Any credit for the post Peters mini bounce has well and truly dried up surely! I get the impression he is a one trick pony and bouncing around on the touch line like a bug eyed loon obviously only gets a team so far.

    So you're just going to ignore the injuries he's had to contend with?

    Henderson's injury has been massively under-estimated by some fans and the club. He has a huge influence on the way we defend. 17 goals in the last 7 games says it all and i doubt any other manager or fan would select the defensive unit thats been playing much differently.

    KAG isn't ready to lead a line in the Championship either. He's a promising young talent but Big Mak/Vetokele/Watt are all better players that have an spells on the sideline for much of the last few months.

    I think calling Luzon a 'one trick pony' is harsh when he's not had anywhere near a full squad available to him for much of this season. It certainly wasn't one trick when we were playing with confidence at the beginning of the season.
    Henderson was among the subs on Tuesday, only an idiot would put a half fit player on the bench in a specialist position, therefore he must have been fit, so why didn't he start? I am not knocking Luzon overall, I don't see enough of us to make a fair judgment, but if Hendo is as crucial as you say Gaz (and I'm not disputing that) then it's a poor call to leave him on the bench for a relegation six pointer...
    I think GL must be given the chance with a fitter squad at his disposal. I just worry the players aren't 100% with him. Little things like JJ not even acknowledging him when he came on on Tuesday. If the players are 100% him he should be given the chance. If not then the next few games won't be pretty. There are things I like about GL. We seemed positive in earlier games and very attack minded. The injuries have been unfortunate, most managers would've struggled, but what does niggle with me is the constant cast of characters in different positions over the last few weeks. I'm sure it must be the injuries, but one week it is Bergdich on the left wing, then it was Kennedy and then it was McAleny. These have all been fit to my knowledge.

    The Bergdich on the right decision really seemed crazy. But then could GL really know how bad Bergdich was going to be. I can honestly say in my 25 odd years of watching football, it was one of the most bizarre performances I've ever seen. He reminded me of a 5 year old just chasing the ball. He have no thought to his position, covering Solly etc. Can GL be held responsible for how bad he was.

    Recruitment is a question as well. Has GL suggested these players or has RD's network dug them out? I'm now seriously questioning Ba, Bergdich and Sarr. Might be a bit unfair, especially Sarr, but that's 3 of 7 bought in. Almost 50% who I don't think are good enough from what I've seen.

    He has my support but I fear if we lose the next 2 or 3, then he'll have to go
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Roland Out Forever!